~~ too bad, so sad...

[reenka]

Thing is...

HP, fandom-wise, is starting to frustrate me more than anything else, especially 'cause I'm the type of person to always go looking outside my little comfort-zone out of some sort of... I dunno... perversity. So I go looking at the lj's of people who ship Sirius/Snape or Lucius/Snape or whatever, and on the one hand, it expands my horizons, and on the other hand it frustrates me. I still get the urge to defend Draco whenever someone seems to not understand him in the slightest, but I'm -tired- of that now, 'cause it won't -matter- to anyone other than the people already receptive to the ideas. The others don't actually -read- mostly H/D-centric journals, I figure. There's only so much time in the day, all that.

It's just... I dunno why I'm so sensitive to people's different little mini-verses within the larger Potterverse fanon, but I am. I don't -care- about the non-B/S shippers. Things that go against my OTP in some other fandom might discomfit me, but they don't actually -bother- me with any serious intensity. Whereas I've gotten -more- rather than less sensitive to things in HP with time, it seems.


I think it's just... not that I really have issues with any pairing-- it's more how there's a -stance- that liking a certain pairing seems to imply. If it's true in other fandoms, I'm not aware of it. I have no clue if Buffy/Spike shippers are different in "type" and overall outlook than say, Spike/Xander shippers. Blissful ignorance, really. They seem to all be friends with each other. I don't get a sense of segregation between factions-- though obviously I'm very -very- outside it all and have barely read any lj's at all, so I'm just going by sites linking to each other.

I feel like it's not just a question of different strokes for different folks in HP, not entirely. It's just hard to find a real point of commonality at -all-, even though supposedly we all like the same thing-- but there are a number of people that are just here for the hotness of Alan Rickman, it seems. What do I have in common with them? And why do I even care if I don't? I don't know. I guess I -don't- care. And well... I like it that way.

It's even more ironic because I don't actually feel a vast similarity of outlook with the great majority of the H/D faction, either, because it tends to be light on analysis and is kind of... one step above Draco/Ginny, as far as general masses. But it -really- frustrates me that the adult-shippers hold themselves -so- far apart, though I'm sure the segregation is mutual. And it also bothers me that liking Sirius and Remus and Snape almost always necessitates having little if any affection for Harry and Ron and Draco-- and vice versa. I mean, it's not like there are people who only like Giles and Wesley and um, I dunno... I guess the vampires are old... but not any of the Scoobies, right? That's just silly, right?

I wrote all this just to stop myself from writing yet another pro-Draco rant. I'm just -tired- of it now. To hell with it, man. No one cares, and I'd just be rehashing things I'd said a million times before and... okay I'm wasting time anyway, but.

It has nothing to do with me, really. Who cares if people are into the adult characters 'cause of some misbegotten idea that they're hot (and "mature")? No skin off my back, right? It's just... I've spent -so- much time with this and am -so- invested, it's like... I really do feel like this is -my- place, my community, and I feel frustrated and alienated by all the factions and segregation. I suppose it bothers me 'cause I feel like I don't belong.

See... the people I have the most in common with, as far as the majority of them, are usually -not- into H/D. I mean, sure, most of the friends I'd made in fandom -were- into it at some point, but as far as current make-up of the fandom, the people I identify with intellectually (though not emotionally) are usually into rare pairings and adult-slash and emphatically -not- H/D. I think this is a phase thing, and also to do with the fact that HP has such a huge diversity of age-groups in terms of its audience. Buffy probably has a much more stable 18-30 age-group, come to think of it, so maybe that accounts for there being more flow.

I guess it also bothers me, feeling so split between my emotions & my intellect. Emotionally, I'm solidly pro-Draco, pro-Harry, pro-H/D and every other character except Ron could just go to hell for all I care (well, not really, but). I'm very focused. Emotionally, I can't stand it seeing any of the three of them mocked or badly used. I'm very protective. Intellectually, I'm interested in the whole HP universe, in the details of characterization for every character, in the non-romantic interactions, in Sirius, Snape, Dumbledore-- you name it. I actually -enjoy- seeing mockery of Harry and Draco, intellectually, 'cause I'm pretty tired of the bland worship of them elsewhere.

It bothers me having this conflict within me generated by fandom politics, I suppose. I'm actually intellectually interested in anti-Draco people's thoughts on Draco-- I find them refreshing and much more lucid sometimes, 'cause the majority of Draco-lovers are just -waaaaay- off base and into fanon happyland. Which just bores me, even if it was fun at first.

I think at heart, the problem is-- even though I'm a lit-geek, I don't have that much in common with a lot of lit-geeks my age, simply 'cause what I look for in stories is so... different. Which depresses me. Most college-age English major types aren't looking for angsty, angry fairy-tales. Most people who -are-, don't actually think about it and go after it as more than a candy rush. It doesn't help that a part of me honestly sees H/D as a canon-viable pairing moreso than any other pairing with either character-- not that it -will- happen, but rather that it's the most interesting thing that -could- happen, even though it won't. That same part of me thinks that H/D is about as natural in the narrative sense as... I dunno... Batman and Catwoman. It just -works-. It's -there-. Why -wouldn't- people see it, even -if- they don't dig it personally?

Anyway, this is all rooted in people having such -wildly-, insanely different views of the Potterverse and its characters. I dunno if every fandom has this wide of a range or what, but the one in HP kind of makes my head hurt. I mean, I guess it still really does confuse me why people insist with such vehemence that canon Draco couldn't and -shouldn't- have depth or a "heart". Why do people insist on bad characterization, even if it's how canon is? Why? How does it make sense that -any- character (person) is that shallow?

HP fandom has always made me want to enact change, be some sort of revolutionary. Write the One True H/D Fic or the One True Draco Fic that will once and for all prove the worthiness of their subject. Heh. In a way, it's almost funny, 'cause hopefully, that's what -canon- should be for, actually. *sigh*

It'd almost be nice to be in a fandom where the character really -is- sexy ('cause it's an actor), rather than one where I cringe every time someone implies they're there for so-and-so (Snape, Draco, Harry's) sex appeal. I've gotten to the point where even the -implication- of someone digging on them that way is starting to make me sick, kind of. Like, even using duckpuppy's cute little eyeliner!Harry in an icon. Dude, I really loved that pic, but I'm actually feeling a little protective of Harry, seeing that icon. This just has to stop. I dunno how. Prolly this break was for the best, even if unintentional.

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It's a cult of Hatred!!1..!!11!11!!!1
*combusts*
That amuses me deeply. Thank you, thank you. Heheheheeheh!! So true!! It's a cult of Hateful Oblivious Stupidity!! That's the answer to -everything- (that's wrong with people), ahahah. Yeah. Dude. And not to say I don't spread the vicious cycle by hating the haters, but oh well :D :D :D!!
It's true, what you say about (well, the dumb thing is naturally a given) the books not being finished. Then again, I shudder to think the self-righteous bullshit that'll start flying once they are. Ergh. Then again, I prolly won't be in fandom by then (let's hope). I wonder if people'll have "So Draco Really -Is- a Nasty Bastard" parties, ehehehe >:D

Yeah, one of my longtime pet peeves is that no one writes H/D right. I dunno... is that uncommon among rabid H/D shippers? It prolly is, but then I was always... different :>

See, but that doesn't stop me from loving the pairing and a lot of fic (even though I don't think much of it approaches my ideal). It's funny 'cause in most other fandoms I wouldn't even -think- of having a perfect-pairing-vehicle-fic ideal. Like... I laugh, thinking of The Perfect Heero/Duo Fic Of All Time, ahahah. That's just ridiculous. But in the HP fandom, there's just been so much crap and misrepresentation and horrid, -horrid- characterization... that it's like... the second coming. And Then One Day, There Will Be A Fic To Redeem The H/D-ers Once And For All, ahahahah. *coughs* Good thing I took a break from fandom before my brain combusted, huh :>

Also... it's been a while since I read badfic that had the "everyone's gay" syndrome. Most experienced writers don't do that, I think. It's prolly been awhile since you've really read much H/D, hasn't it :>
Then again, there's not a lot of people -writing- it these days. Well, writing it well, anyway ^^;
And there -is- a lot of sub!Draco out there, trust me. It's a kink. I actually see it more than sub!Harry (which doesn't make sense to me at all, but then... not enough people write NC17 H/D of -any- kind for my tastes, eheheh). It's just that the lack of good fic out there just makes me more determined to write my own, that's all~:)

Re:

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

It's not so much that 'everyone is gay,' it's more that Ron can apparently only be gay in the context of a pairing like H/R or R/D or R/Sn, etc. To clarify. I'd <3 stories in which Ron is just. Gay. Or has a relationship with an OMC. (But no, all OC are self-inserts and Gary/Mary Sues. Bad! Bad! Evil! Get them away! *snorts*)

See, I can't read fic anymore because too much of it makes my head hurt. I noticed you and spare_change talking about Draco/Snape up above, right? Well, I like Draco. I like Snape. You'd think I like them together. I don't. The pairing makes my head hurt because of just the way the characters mesh in canon (spoiled brat vs. rage-o-holic, which, hey, dude, is Lucius/Narcissa in my head and that brings out a whole different set of issues) and, even worse, the way the characters are portrayed and mesh in fanon.

It's even worse with H/D. It's not that I'm expecting perfection (though I'd be so pleased if I got it), but at least a little sense of logic and logical characterization/progression. I suppose that's my biggest pet peeve, even more than the way Draco is suddenly a redeemed, broody nice guy (i.e. Angel instead of Spike) or something more ridiculous. It's just that so many stories lack a sense of logic or even the logic of consequences. Actions have no reaction. They just are.

Damnit, I have to go to work. I have more to say, it just might be a little later. ^_-

Re:

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

Okay, at work and able to write now. ^_-

I do think that the lack of logic, even in reading the books, has really turned me off into the fandom. It's not that I've become more picky in my reading. If anything, it's the opposite, because there are times that I'd rather just read a dumb, insanely OOC plebefic on ff.net than 'intellislash' (not the authors who identify as intellislashers, but rather the entire genre of 'intelligent slash') simply because I can pick my dumb. You can write the most beautiful, poetic, stylistically gorgeous fanfic in the world and I'm still going to hate it if you still manage to leave out consistent characterization or consequences for each and every action. And this sort of genre applied to smut just makes me laugh and laugh and laugh because it ends up being the ridiculous (though lyrical) 'the flower of her sex opened before him and he felt awed by the fragrant beauty of her petals as he parted them'. That's not sexy. That's funny.

But I'm digressing completely from the point. I think people are just going to read how their view of the world is. I don't see Harry as hero, for example, either classic or modern or even the image of hero, so every story that shows him that way is going to twitch on my OOC-scale. Even worse are the stories with Harry as the innocent, open child that everyone (most specifically Draco and Harry) can read. So they rely on what they read into the story, first, and then the clichés already available in fandom. It always amazes me when people gripe about Draco's characterization in UL, for example, when Harry's so much worse. But that's the way the characters are in fanon despite all logic and reason. They've become defined by a few qualities or a role and people are just too lazy to move past that.

I'm not certain I have a point in there, but I hope you enjoyed the ramble at least. ^_-

Re:

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

Also, point me to this rare beast of Dom!Harry/Sub!Draco you mention. I feel the urge to go a hunting.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

You know I do tend to agree with you, though I twitch, thinking of the many ways I must've failed all this time. But eh. Writing fanfic is hard. It seems like what I know in my -head- about the characters and what I actually -write- in any particular story don't always correlate. They do, the more I write and practice a particular pairing or scenario, but in general, there seems to be a gap there. It's like, every particular story has its own little universe of demands on me, places I can't go 'cause there isn't room or it'd make it into a novel or they're too messed up or it's a comedy or -something-, y'know. Like... I've had to learn the craft (not really a fine art) of placing things squarely in context & enjoying characterizations on their own merits. It's like... does it work within the story? Halfway okay? Eh, good enough :>

That said, I do agree about Harry, definitely-- I mean, you could argue it both ways, but I think he's not heroic -yet- even though he's on the arc but that's me being author-intent-conscious and more archetypal than presently canonical. I don't think he's -anything- yet. He's kind of developing in bursts. I do think he's got the -potential- both for heroism and... not, but the thing that drives him doesn't let him be apathetic, 'cause he's all... impulsive and protective and loyal and judgemental-- all of these things make heroes but they don't -guarrantee- them or anything. Even so, I don't know if anyone's written a believable heroic Harry... just 'cause it's as hard to write good guys as believable bad guys, I guess. All about believable character development and there aren't many heroes to base things on for most writers.

But yeah. I always agree when anyone says fanfic (any fanfic) sucks (for whatever reason). 'Cause it does. For a lot of reasons. That said, given that 95% of everything is crap, there's still that 5% if you look for it~:)

There isn't a lot of post-OoTP Harry out there prolly partly because people don't know what to do with a more complex, more emotionally volatile Harry. He was simple before, and people simplified it even more, 'cause the sad truth is, even though JKR isn't a stellar writer, most fanfic writers are much, much worse. How sad is that? ahahah. Although some of them are prolly better~:)

As far as sub!Draco... Most of the old H/D NC17/R-rated fanfic has always had switch!H/D, which is my favorite. Like... Dahlia, Marysia, Aja, Penguin, Aspen (though she writes bottom!Draco, actually), even Olympia, I think.

More recently...
There's Sara (addictedkitten), thessamunga, weatherby (heheh!!), still Aja, still Aspen/cursescar, even julad.

The people who write top!Draco tend to write him in a way I can't stomach in general, so I don't read them. That is to say, he's usually also suave & witty & gorgeous, not to mention they like to place it post-Hogwarts, which turns me off. Still haven't read Resonant's or Fearless Diva's or FayJay's stuff, prolly 'cause of the Draco. I sniff 'em out, man~:))

Re:

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

I don't see Harry as hero, for example, either classic or modern or even the image of hero, so every story that shows him that way is going to twitch on my OOC-scale.

*blinks*

Okay, but, um, JKR does see Harry as hero, so I don't quite see how that is OOC.

I think people are always going to disagree about characterization. I don't think *any* of the characterizations in UL make much sense, for example, but that certainly hasn't stopped a lot of folks from enjoying it, nor should it. And I'm sure plenty of folks don't like the way I see Lucius ... I think he's hysterically funny. Maybe that doesn't come out in my prose, but I do.

We all love the characters, so we are all going to get annoyed when we think someone is not doing them "justice," but you know, diversity is a good thing, ultimately. Right? Because the sad fact of the matter is that none of us own the books and none of us own the characters more than anyone else.

And there is SO MUCH dom!Harry/sub!Draco out there. I don't really know where to start. I mean, a lot of it is just junkfood fic (and I don't say that disparagingly, because I live on junkfood, in both the literal and metaphorical sense of the term) and so I don't have a list of recs, but there is tons out there.

Even things like so many stories lack a sense of logic or even the logic of consequences ... that's so subjective. I mean, what works for you does not work for me, and vice-versa. You may write something that you think makes perfect sense and is supported by canon 100%, but that doesn't mean I am going to read it that way.

And that's cool. Let a thousand flowers bloom. People aren't lazy and stupid just 'cos they don't see things the way you do ...

Re:

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

Okay, but, um, JKR does see Harry as hero, so I don't quite see how that is OOC.

Depends on how you're defining "hero," really. I've got a post-OOTP short here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/idiotparade/35042.html) that shows my feelings on the matter. If someone else wants to see Harry as, oh, Batman or perhaps even a character in the Oresteia, go right ahead. What I meant was that it's going to strike me as OOC in that Harry is the protagonist, but not a "hero." Maybe a classic one and certainly on a hero's journey, but I can't slant the books enough to call him a hero myself.

Also, out of curiosity, what interview does she say that in? I don't remember it.

We all love the characters, so we are all going to get annoyed when we think someone is not doing them "justice," but you know, diversity is a good thing, ultimately. Right? Because the sad fact of the matter is that none of us own the books and none of us own the characters more than anyone else.

But logic and homage should have its place. If you don't like the way Character X acts in the books, it still doesn't mean that it makes any sense to have Character X suddenly dye hir hair black, wear black Muggle clothing to Hogwarts, carry around a CD player with with CDs from Linkin Park and practicing Wicca. Especially when the story is set in 1975. There's a certain point where 'whatever floats your boat' turns into 'did you even READ the books?'

The same applies not only to characterization but to plots. If Draco and Harry sneak out to the Astronomy Tower for a nice snogging session and get caught, Professor XYZ is going to give them a detention. Not say 'oh, how cute! But it's past curfew, be on your way!'

You can't discount perfectly, reasonable common sense. And too many authors (and by extension their fics) do. That will get me as a reader every time. Logical fallacies, actions without logical reactions/consequences and just things that don't make sense or mesh well (if at all) with the world JKR sets up. All of it shows a lack of understanding that, even in a fantasy world, writing needs to have verisimilitude.

Re:

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

Yes, but you're defining things really rigidly here. I mean, I don't see how you can argue that it is simple "common sense" that Harry is *not* the hero of the books. If you want to argue that, it is fine with me and I'm sure I'll find your argument an interesting and enlightening one. But I am certainly not going to let you get away with calling every person who writes Harry as a hero as OOC. Come on. That's ridiculous. That is just so ... not spreading the fandom love in any way. As you said, it depends on how you define hero ... for me, all of the parallels JKR draws to fairy tales, myths, hero's journey, etc. is hero enough for me. Certainly JKR has said nothing to support either of our positions, so for you to take the moral high ground here and say that anyone who writes Harry as a hero is "slanting the books" is just silly.

I just don't understand why you think that only your view of the books is the correct one, and why you are so invested in ripping down so many other people, and misrepresenting them so badly. I do not know anyone in fandom, other than thirteen year old girls, who writes Character X suddenly dye hir hair black, wear black Muggle clothing to Hogwarts, carry around a CD player with with CDs from Linkin Park and practicing Wicca. Especially when the story is set in 1975. Who do you know in fandom who writes like that except for some kids on ff.net? And what is the point in raining on their parade? If they're determined to read the books and write them that way, there really isn't much point in arguing with them. I mean, I don't see much moral courage in berating a junior high school student.

But what you seem to be doing is suggesting that everyone who writes characters in a way you don't agree with is doing the equivalent of this, and that's just not fair. Or accurate.

I mean, look. I like some of the stuff that you've written, but the Blackcest piece made no sense to me whatsoever. But I didn't call you an idiot with no common sense for writing it. I said, "Okay, this doesn't work for me, but this is what she wanted to say about the Blacks. Cool."

Re:

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

Which is why I emphasized the fact that this is personal. I understand what you're saying. But those sorts of things don't work for me as a reader.

And yes, I am saying that anyone who writes the characters that don't fall into my interpretation are stories that I generally am going to dislike or quit halfway through. That's even what reenka is saying about the 'ideal' not matching up to the 'reality' of the fanfics. We all do this. It's natural because we read for tastes or things that we enjoy. I don't think you have any more moral high ground than I do in saying that I should read everything and enjoy everything because there was something fun in the writing process. Well, the problem is that no matter how much the writer might have enjoyed it, it still reads like crap to me and makes my head hurt. So I don't read it, or if I do, I don't like it. I generally hit the back button and find something better to do with my time a fourth of the way in. I'm a lazy person when it comes to feedback, I generally only give it when I think a story has potential and usually not even then. So, this has nothing to do with raining on parades, unless you're putting words into my mouth. It has everything to do with personal tastes. You like carrots; I like broccoli.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...Just had to say that equating fanon!Draco with Angel just gave me this huge idiotic smile on my face. eheheheeh!!

'Course, it's just a coincidence that I -like- 'em bad~:))
And well, Snape/Draco is one of my least favorite pairings even though I like both characters a lot, for a bunch of reasons. It just doesn't -work- as far as romance goes, really. Then again, I scratch my head at a goodly number of the pairings people come up with. I don't think workability is really the deciding factor for most people, sadly.

Also.... yeah. I've never actually seen "just gay" Ron. Mostly 'cause he's "just straight" in most people's heads. Including mine, eheheh. But "just gay" Ron would actually be rather hilarious, come to think of it.....