~~ pathetic, I know.
Jan. 8th, 2004 05:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaPartly, it's that I feel so weird about being on all these BNF-watcher/lister journals. I suppose it's just... the idea ruins my little dream of community, since my not feeling left out and marginal and misunderstood and lost is always such a precarious thing. I cling to the people who I like and who seem to understand me, and the sheer -publicness- of the BNF-label judgement bothers me. It's hard to find the balance between what is "fandom" and who are people who like -you- and who are "fandom acquaintances" who see you as part of the mass and would leave without saying goodbye (and when you take one for the other, oh, therein lies angst and disappointment, especially if you tie all this to the lj flists).
I've felt like I was part of a community-- not exactly of friends-- more of peers. Which makes me not-quite-comfortably halfway between two camps-- the people who watch (and gossip about the mass of the fandom) and the people who're just friends, hanging out. I suppose people listen to me, but it feels precarious because I'm don't often talk normally to people. I'm like... fannishness personified. In a way, that's plebish and dorky (and well, not true of me, even though 1 and a half years later, I'm -still- obsessed with H/D fic). I both take it too seriously for the average fan (regardless of intelligence or dedication to ship or fandom) and not seriously enough for the fandom scholars, I'd think.
Somehow I find myself in the ridiculous position of wishing I was more "real", which means less fannish, probably...? I mean, I'm not here for the intellectual discussion by any means. It's just. Frankly? Squeeing reeeeeally bloody annoys me. There you have it. Mass squeeing, anyway. Hate. It. Makes me hate the source, too. Like, I have to actively look beyond a piece's popularity on order not to have a knee-jerk hate reaction. Like. The `Peter Pan' movie. I really enjoyed it, though I had serious issues with the romance aspects & the ending. But I'd have been much happier with the movie if everyone and their brother didn't squee about it. 'Cause. It's -mine-. It's been mine for -ages-. And now. It's -public property-. Delusional as this whole train of thought is-- it's just how I feel.
Still. I know that's the foundation of fandom. This is why I'm not in a bunch of fandoms, see. I pretty much can't stand fannishness. Of anything. Ha. I realize how hypocritical this is, since I so passionately adore so many things. It's just-- doing it publically & en masse just gives me shudders.
And yet. You know. Fandom is such a great social engine-- because that's what ties people together, isn't it? Common interests, common passions. And in the end, whether you're "in" or not depends on whether you -feel- like you're in or not, whether you want to be enough to project that outwards. People seem to respond to being wanted.
I think the key to "breaking in" or whatever is just to see the people who make up any given mass as -individuals-. If you pay attention to people on a per-case basis while noticing the threads that bind them-- ie, who are they friends with, what are their common friends with another fan, who do they admire, who admires them-- then you see a community and you can join it in one of three ways (at least)--
- You can talk individually to the people that fascinate you or seem most interesting;
- You can do things that attract group attention, like posting things on mailing lists, starting fests or communities or websites or what have you, or writing (currently in demand or just really good) fic.
- You can squee with them at the things they squee at, or alternatively, squee -at- them, repeatedly, till they remember you, and eventually think of you as an individual they talk to.
I've found that the people who feel left out have a certain MO.
- They care about writing quality rather than squeeful fannishness, thus they have little in common with most of the louder segments of fandom;
- Or alternatively, they are content with the fannish reading and don't see their squeeing as something that needs to be actively broadcasted. (I'm not sure how this works in smaller fandoms with these people-- maybe you can whisper "yeay" and be heard, so it's just a loudness difference.)
- Somehow, they don't see -individuals- as being part of the fandom, and only see the group as an entity they're intimidated/bored by (this one's the clincher). Thus, BNFs! They're not -people-, they're like-- aspects of the mass! It's the many heads of the mindless beast! Figureheads, so to speak, heheh. Brass godlings. Although if the brass godling seems to -see- themselves that way, it's wanky and pathetic, because this BNF meta-image has something of a negative connotation because of its association with exclusion and jealousy (however arbitrary).
Ironically, people who -leave- the fandom, especially after being well-known in it, have a parallel profile--
- They see people outside of their peer-group or circle of acquaintances/friends as a "group" they don't care about or feel intimidated/bored by. It's not "fandom" at all, anymore, just a very focused group of individuals-- so fandom becomes -redundant-.
- They care about writing but no longer -fannish- writing in this particular fandom.
And then there's me. Who hangs around uncertainly, too addicted to fanfic and too lonely to make up her mind :>
I've felt like I was part of a community-- not exactly of friends-- more of peers. Which makes me not-quite-comfortably halfway between two camps-- the people who watch (and gossip about the mass of the fandom) and the people who're just friends, hanging out. I suppose people listen to me, but it feels precarious because I'm don't often talk normally to people. I'm like... fannishness personified. In a way, that's plebish and dorky (and well, not true of me, even though 1 and a half years later, I'm -still- obsessed with H/D fic). I both take it too seriously for the average fan (regardless of intelligence or dedication to ship or fandom) and not seriously enough for the fandom scholars, I'd think.
Somehow I find myself in the ridiculous position of wishing I was more "real", which means less fannish, probably...? I mean, I'm not here for the intellectual discussion by any means. It's just. Frankly? Squeeing reeeeeally bloody annoys me. There you have it. Mass squeeing, anyway. Hate. It. Makes me hate the source, too. Like, I have to actively look beyond a piece's popularity on order not to have a knee-jerk hate reaction. Like. The `Peter Pan' movie. I really enjoyed it, though I had serious issues with the romance aspects & the ending. But I'd have been much happier with the movie if everyone and their brother didn't squee about it. 'Cause. It's -mine-. It's been mine for -ages-. And now. It's -public property-. Delusional as this whole train of thought is-- it's just how I feel.
Still. I know that's the foundation of fandom. This is why I'm not in a bunch of fandoms, see. I pretty much can't stand fannishness. Of anything. Ha. I realize how hypocritical this is, since I so passionately adore so many things. It's just-- doing it publically & en masse just gives me shudders.
And yet. You know. Fandom is such a great social engine-- because that's what ties people together, isn't it? Common interests, common passions. And in the end, whether you're "in" or not depends on whether you -feel- like you're in or not, whether you want to be enough to project that outwards. People seem to respond to being wanted.
I think the key to "breaking in" or whatever is just to see the people who make up any given mass as -individuals-. If you pay attention to people on a per-case basis while noticing the threads that bind them-- ie, who are they friends with, what are their common friends with another fan, who do they admire, who admires them-- then you see a community and you can join it in one of three ways (at least)--
- You can talk individually to the people that fascinate you or seem most interesting;
- You can do things that attract group attention, like posting things on mailing lists, starting fests or communities or websites or what have you, or writing (currently in demand or just really good) fic.
- You can squee with them at the things they squee at, or alternatively, squee -at- them, repeatedly, till they remember you, and eventually think of you as an individual they talk to.
I've found that the people who feel left out have a certain MO.
- They care about writing quality rather than squeeful fannishness, thus they have little in common with most of the louder segments of fandom;
- Or alternatively, they are content with the fannish reading and don't see their squeeing as something that needs to be actively broadcasted. (I'm not sure how this works in smaller fandoms with these people-- maybe you can whisper "yeay" and be heard, so it's just a loudness difference.)
- Somehow, they don't see -individuals- as being part of the fandom, and only see the group as an entity they're intimidated/bored by (this one's the clincher). Thus, BNFs! They're not -people-, they're like-- aspects of the mass! It's the many heads of the mindless beast! Figureheads, so to speak, heheh. Brass godlings. Although if the brass godling seems to -see- themselves that way, it's wanky and pathetic, because this BNF meta-image has something of a negative connotation because of its association with exclusion and jealousy (however arbitrary).
Ironically, people who -leave- the fandom, especially after being well-known in it, have a parallel profile--
- They see people outside of their peer-group or circle of acquaintances/friends as a "group" they don't care about or feel intimidated/bored by. It's not "fandom" at all, anymore, just a very focused group of individuals-- so fandom becomes -redundant-.
- They care about writing but no longer -fannish- writing in this particular fandom.
And then there's me. Who hangs around uncertainly, too addicted to fanfic and too lonely to make up her mind :>
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 01:17 am (UTC)I've been fascinated by your past several entries but didn't know how to respond cuz you've touched on so many points that often made me nod in agreement or raise questionmarks over my head or say "oooh damn, I never thought of it like that." Et cetera. Reading you is a lot like going through someone's stream-of-consciousness, and I like it, yo. :) Anyhoo, I'll attempt to respond to a couple of your points:
Re: the Felliniesque BFN deathmatch trend of late. I think it's a monster that couldn't have been prevented. Fandom is mostly a self-governing entity, no? So I think this is essentially a method - as twisted as it is - of collectively purging all the BNF-related wankery that's been brewing under fandom's skin. Could it even be saving itself by parodying itself viciously. :-?
I have to actively look beyond a piece's popularity on order not to have a knee-jerk hate reaction.
That's interesting - I'm like that way about music and movies. *Especially* movies that are raved about for its sentimentality. I.e. when Titanic came out, I had to be dragged into the theaters kicking and screaming and vomiting, and this was like months into the whole Titanic hype. Heh. But regarding fandom, BNF's and their fics are the reason why I broke into the HP fandom at all. CC is one of my favorite fanfic writers and certainly not for her BNF status. God, that gal can write. Spade a spade, etc. I think my fandom experience would have been *much* different had I been forced to scour a bazillion authors to pick out the good stuff. (And expectedly, there are BNF's whose writing I don't care for, and many obscurer authors whom I think are woefully overlooked.) Even in an autonomy, I think people still look for places of mass convergence and faces to identify with - and BNF's provide those. The comfort/familiarity factor. (Thei quality of their writing being purely subjective) And here's where I babble on about the patterns of human nature but I'll mercifully spare ye. ;)
Re: Squeeage. Haha, Duckpup = perpetrator extraordinaire. :D Er, I'm not sure I even like the term 'squee'. I'd say that I acknowledge. Yeah. I like to acknowledge art and fics that really grab me because I believe fandom peeps don't want to feel like they're shouting into a void. When something hits a right chord in me, I wanna let the artist/writer know. I like to see people get rewarded for their efforts either through praise or constructive criticism. And really, commenting (with varying degrees of 'squeeage' - sometimes none at all) is my main method of communication in this fandom. My M.O. is sharing fandom stuff while still guarding the more personal RL side of me. I probably won't garner many socialization points for that, but that's just how I work, baybeh. Besides, it makes for less stress (not having to worry about who knows what about me) which I certainly have plenty of in RL :P C'est moi, c'est ca...
I wish I could respond to more of your points but gah, my poor fingers.
[/my longest post evahhhh]
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 01:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 01:48 am (UTC)Also, it's like... the sheerness of the finish overwhelms the piece for me, unless it's humorous, plus I've been waiting for your Draco to mature, heheh, 'cause the characterization's been bothering me (well, the shameless fanonness, heheh), though your Harry's cool. I knew you were just beginning, so I was curious to see how your characterizations would develop-- since the look changed a bit with each pic, so I could tell it was just developing, so I was kind of in the observing stage.
Whereas with Seviet, I feel like she's so finished in style & just... -defined- that it's like looking at professional art. And professional-type stuff leaves me without immediate coherent feedback. I could think of something after the initial "..." reaction wears off, but by then my fruit-fly of an attention span has died ><;;
Anyway, I really really really liked all your Draco/Hermione sketches. Well, the sketchiness & the way you were madly experimenting with characterization. I felt like you were really getting into their characters rather than just the lines, y'know? I dunno. Since you were unsure what you wanted, that allowed -them- to come through more. I feel drawing/making stuff you don't really find pretty or sexy/attractive in any way to be... broadening 'cause it forces you to... I dunno. Listen to the subject more. And also the slight discomfort of a new medium. Helpful. One gets better in general. The sneer on Draco was wonderful. And the sneer on Hermione! Ha!! :D Prissy, pinched-looking Hermione!
I like things less smooth/pretty and more dorky & emotional, if you can't tell~:) Though pretty is also good. If it can also be dorky :>
See, now I rambled. This happens when I can't think~:)) Which is most of the time -.-
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 05:36 pm (UTC)I'm surprised you haven't mentioned
plus I've been waiting for your Draco to mature, heheh, 'cause the characterization's been bothering me (well, the shameless fanonness, heheh), though your Harry's cool. I knew you were just beginning, so I was curious to see how your characterizations would develop-- since the look changed a bit with each pic, so I could tell it was just developing, so I was kind of in the observing stage.
*CURIOUS*! Heh, yesyesyes, I likes it good when someone concrits my art, especially on style and characterization. Cuz I'd like to know how my art triggers a certain reaction in people you know? When you said Draco's characterization bothered you, did you mean his appearance or attitude? (hair too long? too schmoopy?) I could understand how my version of fanon!Draco irks some people... hee. It's cool that you've noticed a slight change in each pic because at this stage I'm still trying to find the H/D I'm fully comfortable with. Like, Glock and Seviet are very consistent with the look of their characters. Hopefully I'm getting there...?
Oh and don't feel obliged to comment on my work - I mean, I'm just glad that people are nice enought to take time to look at my art, you know? :D Like I said in my previous post we should give fb to the stuff that strikes a chord ..
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 06:04 pm (UTC)Long hair is fine. The thing with your Draco is that you don't always give him a distinct personality. Like... emotional background. There's no anger, arrogance, disdain, passion-- things I associate with him, fanon or canon. That's why I love your little cartoons best-- 'cause he has -expression- and emotional resonance there, even if it's exagerrated. If he's too pretty & kissy-kissy, he loses his edge. He's like Spike that way, to me.
It takes a unique gift to draw (just like write) kissy H/D and remain recognizably H/D. Y'know? They have this animosity, this chemistry. They boil and bubble and cause trouble. Most H/D pics don't capture this at all, but I'm a slut for style, so. But if the style isn't hitting my exact kink, then I'm more critical of characterization, I guess. That said, I do love your art, man~:))
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 06:33 pm (UTC)While we're swapping artists... Yoshitaka Amano! My favorite fantasy artist, hands down. His style is ethereal and dreamy and just godlike. (and intricate! *g*)
There's no anger, arrogance, disdain, passion-- things I associate with him, fanon or canon.
I curse my former anime-drawing habit for this! Heh. I completely see where you're coming from. I think the blandness of Draco spawns mainly from my own laziness... It's easier to slap on a Jesus-y contemplatively nebulous expression. :p That said, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the next H/D piece I'll be posting cuz... well, you'll see. ;p
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 06:47 pm (UTC)I have a -boatload- of favored fantasy/comics artists. Like. There are so many. And so many are GOD-LIKE. I look at those anthologies and go, "I AM NO WORTHY". Fanartists get all this squee, and it's like, "wow, you're gr8! with an 8! professional!" and then I -see- professional. And it ain't nothin' like anyone's fanart, man. Nothin'. Not that they need to be comparable. Even so, do you browse the `Spectrum' collections and other fantasy art collection books? OMG. I die, every time, multiply. *siiiigh*
And yes, I love Amano, man. Yum. Prettyyyyy. And unique. And. There was once an exhibition of his work at NYC while I was still there but I was lazy and didn't go :((
I still regret that. I suck. Wah.
Fantasy (and comic) art is like... one of the areas I know most about. Heh. 'Cause I'm a drooling fangirl, of course~:)
And yeah, I know what you mean about the contemplative expressions being easier. I was like that with the front doodle to the comic-type-thing from a couple of days ago. I realize that the thing that really prevents it from looking like Harry & Draco isn't really features but expression. Or the lack thereof :> Otherwise it's, you know, just a blond boy & a dark-haired boy with glasses, at the extreme. And what's more, you don't know anything about these boys. Heh.
But sometimes your inner Draco does break free, as in tne cartoons & the Draco/Hermione sketches. Mine too, seems to come to me when I'm not paying as much attention to craftsmanship & just let the muses (or whatever) speak to me. It's a balance, I'd think :>
no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 05:15 pm (UTC)I always wonder about people who friend everybody. Like. Whether they actually -read- me in particular. So thanks :D ahaha. Good to know~:))
Often people comment who I was -sure- don't like, -ever- read anything I say. Maybe they've forgotten I exist. Not that this would be a huge loss to them or anything. But still.
Anyway. Where was my point?
I like the idea of BNF-thingies being needed. Hmm. I can see that. Ahahah. Lets people's poison out semi-safely. Or something. Though OoTP really didn't revitalize/restart the fandom at all, did it. *siiiigh* I feel a bit as if fandom's chewing on its own diseased carcass sometimes, ahahah. o_0
I have the knee-jerk-hate thing with -everything-. I think... I dunno. I'm very contrary. Very. You-say-yes-I-say-no. -That- contrary. I'm like the girl in the nursery rhyme, eheheh. ^^; I do agree with people pretty often, though. I'm reasonable, eheheheh. Sort of. It's only when I feel like I -have- to agree that I disagree. If I see someone implying/stating this is the only way to think, I rebel. It's really annoying that people accuse me of this, since it's like the devil's own device to drive me insane. Like. Poetic justice, I guess....? I'm passionate, and this often gets interpreted as attempted brainwashing...? I guess?
I know other people are just being passionate too, see. So. Um. But. They annoy me because it's... shallow? Loud? I dunno.
Reccing isn't the same. I rec all the time. I have a whole page o' recs (http://www.core.binghamton.edu/~lorien/story/_fic.html) I constantly update. Pointing out artists/writers if Of The Good. That's not the same thing, though I admit the difference is both subtle and subjective.
Saying, "OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVAH, YOU HAVE TO AGREE OR YOU'RE A MORON, OMG!!1 >:O!!"
...is offensive to me. Say -why- at least. Or... something.
That said, I do squee. But not about the popular things, usually.
It's not that I only like unpopular things (my favorite fanfic authors are pretty popular, most of them). It's just. I dunno. Kissing ass. That's what peeves me. Y'know?