~~ pathetic, I know.
Jan. 8th, 2004 05:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaPartly, it's that I feel so weird about being on all these BNF-watcher/lister journals. I suppose it's just... the idea ruins my little dream of community, since my not feeling left out and marginal and misunderstood and lost is always such a precarious thing. I cling to the people who I like and who seem to understand me, and the sheer -publicness- of the BNF-label judgement bothers me. It's hard to find the balance between what is "fandom" and who are people who like -you- and who are "fandom acquaintances" who see you as part of the mass and would leave without saying goodbye (and when you take one for the other, oh, therein lies angst and disappointment, especially if you tie all this to the lj flists).
I've felt like I was part of a community-- not exactly of friends-- more of peers. Which makes me not-quite-comfortably halfway between two camps-- the people who watch (and gossip about the mass of the fandom) and the people who're just friends, hanging out. I suppose people listen to me, but it feels precarious because I'm don't often talk normally to people. I'm like... fannishness personified. In a way, that's plebish and dorky (and well, not true of me, even though 1 and a half years later, I'm -still- obsessed with H/D fic). I both take it too seriously for the average fan (regardless of intelligence or dedication to ship or fandom) and not seriously enough for the fandom scholars, I'd think.
Somehow I find myself in the ridiculous position of wishing I was more "real", which means less fannish, probably...? I mean, I'm not here for the intellectual discussion by any means. It's just. Frankly? Squeeing reeeeeally bloody annoys me. There you have it. Mass squeeing, anyway. Hate. It. Makes me hate the source, too. Like, I have to actively look beyond a piece's popularity on order not to have a knee-jerk hate reaction. Like. The `Peter Pan' movie. I really enjoyed it, though I had serious issues with the romance aspects & the ending. But I'd have been much happier with the movie if everyone and their brother didn't squee about it. 'Cause. It's -mine-. It's been mine for -ages-. And now. It's -public property-. Delusional as this whole train of thought is-- it's just how I feel.
Still. I know that's the foundation of fandom. This is why I'm not in a bunch of fandoms, see. I pretty much can't stand fannishness. Of anything. Ha. I realize how hypocritical this is, since I so passionately adore so many things. It's just-- doing it publically & en masse just gives me shudders.
And yet. You know. Fandom is such a great social engine-- because that's what ties people together, isn't it? Common interests, common passions. And in the end, whether you're "in" or not depends on whether you -feel- like you're in or not, whether you want to be enough to project that outwards. People seem to respond to being wanted.
I think the key to "breaking in" or whatever is just to see the people who make up any given mass as -individuals-. If you pay attention to people on a per-case basis while noticing the threads that bind them-- ie, who are they friends with, what are their common friends with another fan, who do they admire, who admires them-- then you see a community and you can join it in one of three ways (at least)--
- You can talk individually to the people that fascinate you or seem most interesting;
- You can do things that attract group attention, like posting things on mailing lists, starting fests or communities or websites or what have you, or writing (currently in demand or just really good) fic.
- You can squee with them at the things they squee at, or alternatively, squee -at- them, repeatedly, till they remember you, and eventually think of you as an individual they talk to.
I've found that the people who feel left out have a certain MO.
- They care about writing quality rather than squeeful fannishness, thus they have little in common with most of the louder segments of fandom;
- Or alternatively, they are content with the fannish reading and don't see their squeeing as something that needs to be actively broadcasted. (I'm not sure how this works in smaller fandoms with these people-- maybe you can whisper "yeay" and be heard, so it's just a loudness difference.)
- Somehow, they don't see -individuals- as being part of the fandom, and only see the group as an entity they're intimidated/bored by (this one's the clincher). Thus, BNFs! They're not -people-, they're like-- aspects of the mass! It's the many heads of the mindless beast! Figureheads, so to speak, heheh. Brass godlings. Although if the brass godling seems to -see- themselves that way, it's wanky and pathetic, because this BNF meta-image has something of a negative connotation because of its association with exclusion and jealousy (however arbitrary).
Ironically, people who -leave- the fandom, especially after being well-known in it, have a parallel profile--
- They see people outside of their peer-group or circle of acquaintances/friends as a "group" they don't care about or feel intimidated/bored by. It's not "fandom" at all, anymore, just a very focused group of individuals-- so fandom becomes -redundant-.
- They care about writing but no longer -fannish- writing in this particular fandom.
And then there's me. Who hangs around uncertainly, too addicted to fanfic and too lonely to make up her mind :>
I've felt like I was part of a community-- not exactly of friends-- more of peers. Which makes me not-quite-comfortably halfway between two camps-- the people who watch (and gossip about the mass of the fandom) and the people who're just friends, hanging out. I suppose people listen to me, but it feels precarious because I'm don't often talk normally to people. I'm like... fannishness personified. In a way, that's plebish and dorky (and well, not true of me, even though 1 and a half years later, I'm -still- obsessed with H/D fic). I both take it too seriously for the average fan (regardless of intelligence or dedication to ship or fandom) and not seriously enough for the fandom scholars, I'd think.
Somehow I find myself in the ridiculous position of wishing I was more "real", which means less fannish, probably...? I mean, I'm not here for the intellectual discussion by any means. It's just. Frankly? Squeeing reeeeeally bloody annoys me. There you have it. Mass squeeing, anyway. Hate. It. Makes me hate the source, too. Like, I have to actively look beyond a piece's popularity on order not to have a knee-jerk hate reaction. Like. The `Peter Pan' movie. I really enjoyed it, though I had serious issues with the romance aspects & the ending. But I'd have been much happier with the movie if everyone and their brother didn't squee about it. 'Cause. It's -mine-. It's been mine for -ages-. And now. It's -public property-. Delusional as this whole train of thought is-- it's just how I feel.
Still. I know that's the foundation of fandom. This is why I'm not in a bunch of fandoms, see. I pretty much can't stand fannishness. Of anything. Ha. I realize how hypocritical this is, since I so passionately adore so many things. It's just-- doing it publically & en masse just gives me shudders.
And yet. You know. Fandom is such a great social engine-- because that's what ties people together, isn't it? Common interests, common passions. And in the end, whether you're "in" or not depends on whether you -feel- like you're in or not, whether you want to be enough to project that outwards. People seem to respond to being wanted.
I think the key to "breaking in" or whatever is just to see the people who make up any given mass as -individuals-. If you pay attention to people on a per-case basis while noticing the threads that bind them-- ie, who are they friends with, what are their common friends with another fan, who do they admire, who admires them-- then you see a community and you can join it in one of three ways (at least)--
- You can talk individually to the people that fascinate you or seem most interesting;
- You can do things that attract group attention, like posting things on mailing lists, starting fests or communities or websites or what have you, or writing (currently in demand or just really good) fic.
- You can squee with them at the things they squee at, or alternatively, squee -at- them, repeatedly, till they remember you, and eventually think of you as an individual they talk to.
I've found that the people who feel left out have a certain MO.
- They care about writing quality rather than squeeful fannishness, thus they have little in common with most of the louder segments of fandom;
- Or alternatively, they are content with the fannish reading and don't see their squeeing as something that needs to be actively broadcasted. (I'm not sure how this works in smaller fandoms with these people-- maybe you can whisper "yeay" and be heard, so it's just a loudness difference.)
- Somehow, they don't see -individuals- as being part of the fandom, and only see the group as an entity they're intimidated/bored by (this one's the clincher). Thus, BNFs! They're not -people-, they're like-- aspects of the mass! It's the many heads of the mindless beast! Figureheads, so to speak, heheh. Brass godlings. Although if the brass godling seems to -see- themselves that way, it's wanky and pathetic, because this BNF meta-image has something of a negative connotation because of its association with exclusion and jealousy (however arbitrary).
Ironically, people who -leave- the fandom, especially after being well-known in it, have a parallel profile--
- They see people outside of their peer-group or circle of acquaintances/friends as a "group" they don't care about or feel intimidated/bored by. It's not "fandom" at all, anymore, just a very focused group of individuals-- so fandom becomes -redundant-.
- They care about writing but no longer -fannish- writing in this particular fandom.
And then there's me. Who hangs around uncertainly, too addicted to fanfic and too lonely to make up her mind :>
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no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 08:43 pm (UTC)Um. I wasn't saying anything about why people would read this journal, just that being called a BNF bothers me 'cause a) I'm not; and b) I see it as an insult (personally). And also because it sets me above people which goes against my sense of community & fellowship. If that makes sense. Er. I know it's kinda abstract -.- Not to say I'm not L337, 'cause clearly I am :D *nods sagely*
That's what I was saying-- I -do- have a lot of fandom output, but that makes me less... er... of a "real person". To some people, who have less fandom output. Which is a lot of the fandom, or at least a large portion of my friends list. I think the problem you have that makes you confused by some things is that you um... connect things I didn't mean to connect. Like... my thoughts jump around a lot. One doesn't necessarily follow the other except in my mind, and I don't necessarily lay down the stepping stones between them so that they're clearly linked the way I want them. That particular thought was almost entirely unrelated to everything else. Yeah, I suck at (logical) essays ><;; On the fly, anyway.
But anyway, I'd want to be more real & less fannish because that'd be more in line with what people who I want to be friends with are. Which sounds artificial, which is why I don't try to do it. Whatever "it" is, anyway. But I hate feeling like I alienate some people & that they can't "know" me through this journal and thus we can't be friends as easily, blah blah :> Anyway, totally unrelated, mostly, as I said.
I wasn't saying I wanted to break in. Ahahah I -am- in. *laughs* As in as I ever want to get, anyway. I mean, some people I'd want to -know- better in fandom (and half-out of it), but as far as being "in", I'm in. *laughs* I was talking about -people- who felt they weren't in. I'm not one of those people. Was there much confusion on that point? I never actually referred to "I", did I? Er. I mean. I -do- already have as much attention as I know what to do with. You yourself said so. *laughs*
Maybe you should guess that if it confuses you or doesn't make sense, then I didn't mean it that way...? 'Cause usually it turns out I didn't~:)
I realize I squee, heh. I did mention that this was hypocritical, didn't I? Heh. I don't squee the same way, but eh. I think I... I dunno. I squee with more deeply-felt intensity rather than the more shallow waters of fangirling. But whatever. My point wasn't a logical one. I don't think it related to anything. Heh. As to why I'm in HP fandom-- good question. Um. I HATED the books for -years-. Hatehatehatehatehate burning -hate-. Ohhhhh yesssss. Not (just) because of the popularity. I mean I read some of the first book & hated it passionately & that combined with the popularity & hype and. Well. This all comes down to the fact that I didn't actually read canon for about a year while I was in fandom, reading fanfic. What I mean is-- I -hated- the writing. I didn't -want- to read them. Fanfic was more interesting to me by a very long shot. Why stop reading happy H/D porn for badly written fantasy gen? Heh.
Anyway, I've changed my mind since then. I read beyond book 1-- actually, I started with book 4. I -loved- book 4. Then I read book 5. And then I was a drooling fangirl. 'Cause book 5 Harry = Reena is a puddle of adoring goo.
What that tangent was meant to say was-- I have anti-HP credentials, so to speak. I was forcibly converted. I am a born again HP fan, ahahahah. Oh, I crack myself up. ^^;
no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 07:24 am (UTC)Ha! You are the second person to tell me that this week. But I am much afraid of letting my subjectiveness meddle with people's creativity...Anyway, I only pick up on these things because I am confused and need more explaining! And I know you like to explain, er, right? :D
Um. I wasn't saying anything about why people would read this journal, just that being called a BNF bothers me 'cause a) I'm not; and b) I see it as an insult (personally). And also because it sets me above people which goes against my sense of community & fellowship.
Ah. I read it that the idea of BNFness annoyed you because you wanted to interact with a specific community, and so people who were just reading without giving back to that certain idea of community you found strange. But it sounds like you mean that BNFness creates arbitrary social distinctions that should not be! If so I agree. :)
That's what I was saying-- I -do- have a lot of fandom output, but that makes me less... er... of a "real person". To some people, who have less fandom output. Which is a lot of the fandom, or at least a large portion of my friends list.
But anyway, I'd want to be more real & less fannish because that'd be more in line with what people who I want to be friends with are. Which sounds artificial, which is why I don't try to do it. Whatever "it" is, anyway. But I hate feeling like I alienate some people & that they can't "know" me through this journal and thus we can't be friends as easily, blah blah :>
Well you could always *be* more real. No one's exactly stopping you, are they? The key to making people envy your exciting fast-paced lifestyle, I think, is writing about your lifestyle as if it were fast-paced and exciting, even if it isn't!
I wasn't saying I wanted to break in. Ahahah I -am- in. ....Was there much confusion on that point? I never actually referred to "I", did I?
No, I understood you there. I got confused myself, by switching to 'you' in the general sense. Like, if 'you', the general people, want to break in, then, blah blah.
I don't squee the same way, but eh. I think I... I dunno. I squee with more deeply-felt intensity rather than the more shallow waters of fangirling.
But how can you know? How do you judge the degree of sentimentality invested in a squee? ;D
I HATED the books for -years-. Hatehatehatehatehate burning -hate-. Ohhhhh yesssss. Not (just) because of the popularity. I mean I read some of the first book & hated it passionately & that combined with the popularity & hype and.
Yeah, I know you did, because I remember all those discussions where you were the Valiant Defender of HP fans who are in fandom without having read/liked the books and got everybody perplexed as to how that could be possible. But still. I also have that gut reaction to hate popular things, and only recently have I been realizing the weirdness of this tendency in myself. Because I don't think you really should hate things without judging them on their own merits. And then some other days I do get little twinges of guilt for being Yet Another on the colossal HP bandwagon, and think why couldn't I have found something to be in fandom about that isn't obsessed over by millions of little kids, wah! And I completely understand about wanting to dislike things because of the hype, wanting to see them not live up to their reputation. Yet one of my friends passionately hates the HP books and though read all of them, and continues to bash them, but when questioned about them can't remember the basic plot, and it annoys me so much. And if you're going to hate everything that's popular, because it's popular, then how can you judge popularity? Shouldn't you hate all movies, too, because any movie big enough to be in large cinemas is getting thousands and thousands of viewers?
no subject
Date: 2004-01-14 10:25 pm (UTC)Also. I don't hate -all- popular books/movies... that would get frustrating. I -did- dislike HP because of specific reasons. I disliked the way book 1 started-- with the Dursleys and the blatant morality play and the simplistic style and. That whole... yeah. Morality play combined with 2nd grade-level writing? Eeeurgh. But also, I was just bitter 'cause suddenly, fantasy was "cool", whereas I've been reading YA school-days fantasy for -ages-. Ages. This is my turf, man. I know it backwards and forwards. I probably know more about (obscure & mainstream) fantasy & YA fantasy than 98% of the people in fandom and who read HP in general. I'm a fantasy fan. Most people who read HP aren't. This pisses me off.
In fact, casual, only-the-popular-stuff fantasy fans-- Piers Anthony & Mercedes Lackey and whoever's selling best-- really piss me off too. What's even more funny is that the people who really like my secret loves-- like... Patricia McKillip or Emma Bull, say-- they really kind of bother me too, 'cause I get possessive. There is no winning. And neither is there any logic to my brain. I'm just. Er. Yeah. I wasn't cut out to be a public fan of anything :>
no subject
Date: 2004-01-15 06:16 am (UTC)I just said that I like the early HP books because I read them as kids' book and I think they're very good kids' books.
As for ye: no, you can't win with the dislike of popularity combined with possessiveness of obsessions. ;D What would make you happy? Really obscure stuff, which you don't like, being liked by a small group of people?
no subject
Date: 2004-01-15 10:46 am (UTC)