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reenkaI know how people get annoyed seeing the same uber-popular fics recced all the time, and oh yeah, I definitely empathize. Except I definitely also get really really irritated seeing the same fics anti-recced, too. It's always the same fanfics, whether they're being bashed or fangirled. It perpetuates the cycle. It spreads the disease, man.
Not to mention! No fic is -that- bad or -that- good. I fail to see why so many intelligent people feel the need to harp on something just because it's popular, whereas lots and lots of other fics are just as bad and most often -worse-. The only difference being that they're not pimped as loudly.
This isn't a phenomenon only seen in fanfic reccing, of course. The most hyped-up movies are also the most trashed ones by the critics. Speaking as someone who sometimes enjoys such movies shamelessly and sometimes hates them and sometimes can't be bothered-- it's kind of embarrassing to call yourself a critic and always descend to this petty bashing of the popular kids. I realize no one -cares- if you don't like some obscure art-house movie. But there's such a thing as a critic's integrity, too.
When people ask me what fics I can't stand, I usually name ones the other person hasn't heard of. Most people haven't read `Perfect Imperfection' or `All Torn Down' or `Ruses'-- but so what? I often think the whole idea of anti-reccing is fishy because it implies the person has read the fic in question beforehand-- otherwise they're not really going to -understand- what the big deal is unless you summarize the fic for them and have them sort of read it vicariously. Overall, it's more useful to generalize the flaws you see and try to promote good writing techniques rather than beat on these few popular stories, whether they're deservedly so or not. Though I admit partly it's just that I -like- IP and feel a tad embarrassed, eheheh.
~~
A few days ago, I was thinking slightly about![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
isiscolo's post about the necessary exclusivity of recs & the issue of needing to trust the reccer.
I wondered (once again) what exactly my bias is. I never really think about how I'm biased-- I rec mostly as a personal reference to myself, so it's implicit which fics are just "good porn" or "squee" or "deep" or "emotionally impactful". I don't know if that's useful to put next to my recs, though maybe I should. I definitely rec based on emotional reaction (laughter, sadness, pain, wonder, thoughtfulness, stylistic beauty, with style often dominating). It seems to me that any story can be written well or badly, but often enough this doesn't correlate to whether people would want to read it or not. People have their issues they're looking to see explored, types of characterizations they favor, things they notice while reading.
I think a number of people just don't -notice- the things I notice. I mean, I don't really know if/how many people do trust my recs, though I assume a number of people find my opinion valid, otherwise they wouldn't read it. Even so, I think the things I perceive are seen as -interesting- rather than er... evident.
As a writer, I think I tend to write to a certain audience-- all writers do, implicitly. There are certain givens in everyone's writing, unstated but always there. "This is what human beings act like." One might think it's universal, and it might be in a way, but not every writer has the same level and type of understanding of that universal. I tend to intuitively notice the sort of philosophy implied in people's writing-- it's just what comes naturally to me. So some of the thing that really attracts me or annoys me about a story is likely to be that subtle philosophical edge. Everything implies a philosophy of living, even Wal-Mart ads.
In a way, I think it's more interesting to delineate bias than to argue over specific instances in particular fics. Because once I start thinking about particular fics and whether they're good or bad and get into an argument about it, my temper starts to rise. It's very easy to start thinking that people have no taste and that they're just deluded. Most people just don't think about -why- a certain story appeals to them, but breaking it down too much could be counter-productive too, since a good story transcends categories and is just emotionally suited to its "ideal reader".
The thing is, there really isn't any reccer I trust completely. I've never really met someone with the same taste as me, even in the very limited world of H/D fics. I thinkeleveninches and I have the closest tastes of anyone else whose recs I've read in the fandom, but that's mostly 'cause she's very selective and generally I can trust her to look at the whole story rather than any particular emotional kink it has. That's usually a good recipe for something I'll enjoy at least on the "oh, good stuff" level if not the squeeing madness level.
That's kind of funny, isn't it? The same people who cry indignantly at IP also rec some of the most bland and boring dreck ever written in the pairing. I mean, just because it doesn't have purple prose or overt symbolism doesn't mean it's subtle and cutting and perfectly balanced by any means. But now I'm just kind of complaining, so I'll stop.
~~
You know how I said I hatehatehate pimping? Well, that's other people's pimping, not my own, ehehehe.
I was feeling all irritated and cranky, and then I stumbled upon one of my favorite HP fanartists-- Syrena Doné of jareth.com & Severus Snape's Slytherin Society. I love her Draco and her Snape. They're so... evil. *cries with joy* There's also this odds n' ends gallery with 'puter-hating!Snape, omg. Hee! I have this... thing against evil!Draco in fanfic but I -love- and adore seeing that awful sneer and the maniacally vicious glint in his eye. It just makes me warm and fuzzy. Her inking style is just so old-fashioned and intricate and the characterization so vivid and canon. Also, bathtub!Snape has my heart.
Not to mention! No fic is -that- bad or -that- good. I fail to see why so many intelligent people feel the need to harp on something just because it's popular, whereas lots and lots of other fics are just as bad and most often -worse-. The only difference being that they're not pimped as loudly.
This isn't a phenomenon only seen in fanfic reccing, of course. The most hyped-up movies are also the most trashed ones by the critics. Speaking as someone who sometimes enjoys such movies shamelessly and sometimes hates them and sometimes can't be bothered-- it's kind of embarrassing to call yourself a critic and always descend to this petty bashing of the popular kids. I realize no one -cares- if you don't like some obscure art-house movie. But there's such a thing as a critic's integrity, too.
When people ask me what fics I can't stand, I usually name ones the other person hasn't heard of. Most people haven't read `Perfect Imperfection' or `All Torn Down' or `Ruses'-- but so what? I often think the whole idea of anti-reccing is fishy because it implies the person has read the fic in question beforehand-- otherwise they're not really going to -understand- what the big deal is unless you summarize the fic for them and have them sort of read it vicariously. Overall, it's more useful to generalize the flaws you see and try to promote good writing techniques rather than beat on these few popular stories, whether they're deservedly so or not. Though I admit partly it's just that I -like- IP and feel a tad embarrassed, eheheh.
~~
A few days ago, I was thinking slightly about
isiscolo's post about the necessary exclusivity of recs & the issue of needing to trust the reccer. I wondered (once again) what exactly my bias is. I never really think about how I'm biased-- I rec mostly as a personal reference to myself, so it's implicit which fics are just "good porn" or "squee" or "deep" or "emotionally impactful". I don't know if that's useful to put next to my recs, though maybe I should. I definitely rec based on emotional reaction (laughter, sadness, pain, wonder, thoughtfulness, stylistic beauty, with style often dominating). It seems to me that any story can be written well or badly, but often enough this doesn't correlate to whether people would want to read it or not. People have their issues they're looking to see explored, types of characterizations they favor, things they notice while reading.
I think a number of people just don't -notice- the things I notice. I mean, I don't really know if/how many people do trust my recs, though I assume a number of people find my opinion valid, otherwise they wouldn't read it. Even so, I think the things I perceive are seen as -interesting- rather than er... evident.
As a writer, I think I tend to write to a certain audience-- all writers do, implicitly. There are certain givens in everyone's writing, unstated but always there. "This is what human beings act like." One might think it's universal, and it might be in a way, but not every writer has the same level and type of understanding of that universal. I tend to intuitively notice the sort of philosophy implied in people's writing-- it's just what comes naturally to me. So some of the thing that really attracts me or annoys me about a story is likely to be that subtle philosophical edge. Everything implies a philosophy of living, even Wal-Mart ads.
In a way, I think it's more interesting to delineate bias than to argue over specific instances in particular fics. Because once I start thinking about particular fics and whether they're good or bad and get into an argument about it, my temper starts to rise. It's very easy to start thinking that people have no taste and that they're just deluded. Most people just don't think about -why- a certain story appeals to them, but breaking it down too much could be counter-productive too, since a good story transcends categories and is just emotionally suited to its "ideal reader".
The thing is, there really isn't any reccer I trust completely. I've never really met someone with the same taste as me, even in the very limited world of H/D fics. I think
eleveninches and I have the closest tastes of anyone else whose recs I've read in the fandom, but that's mostly 'cause she's very selective and generally I can trust her to look at the whole story rather than any particular emotional kink it has. That's usually a good recipe for something I'll enjoy at least on the "oh, good stuff" level if not the squeeing madness level.That's kind of funny, isn't it? The same people who cry indignantly at IP also rec some of the most bland and boring dreck ever written in the pairing. I mean, just because it doesn't have purple prose or overt symbolism doesn't mean it's subtle and cutting and perfectly balanced by any means. But now I'm just kind of complaining, so I'll stop.
~~
You know how I said I hatehatehate pimping? Well, that's other people's pimping, not my own, ehehehe.
I was feeling all irritated and cranky, and then I stumbled upon one of my favorite HP fanartists-- Syrena Doné of jareth.com & Severus Snape's Slytherin Society. I love her Draco and her Snape. They're so... evil. *cries with joy* There's also this odds n' ends gallery with 'puter-hating!Snape, omg. Hee! I have this... thing against evil!Draco in fanfic but I -love- and adore seeing that awful sneer and the maniacally vicious glint in his eye. It just makes me warm and fuzzy. Her inking style is just so old-fashioned and intricate and the characterization so vivid and canon. Also, bathtub!Snape has my heart.
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no subject
Date: 2003-11-23 05:38 pm (UTC)Sorry. But that is, like, two hours of my LIFE, that I will NEVER get back. WOE!
Anyway. I agree with Ash that often it has to deal with like-mindedness. If 500 fangirls says that Cassie Claire is the best thing since the wheel, the general perception of the fandom is that Cassie Claire is the best thing since the wheel. Because people want to fit it and make themselves look more cool and more popular. So after time, people get tired of that and the oh-so-controversial opinion that Cassie Claire is not the new wheel, but on the other hand, just recycled!
And lo, flame wars begin.
I think in terms of recs what people forget (both reccers and readers) is that these are, at heart, opinion. Too often recommendations have a feeling of "This Word -- My Word! -- Is Law! DO NOT DROP THE TABLETS, MOSES!" when it's a reaction to the story. I'm not going to rec something that affects me on an emotional level if it still doesn't make any sense logically, for example. But some of your recs are that type of story. Things that don't make logical sense to me, but are emotionally affecting.
I suppose I just think that all rec pages need a huge disclaimer for the stupid saying "These are my opinions. My opinions only. This X quality, this Y quality and this Z characterization are my favorite things. I tend to rec based on those things. This is an opinion only."
Well, maybe not a disclaimer, but often I wish rec pages would explain what the reccer likes in a story, in general, so that I don't have to wade through fifty stories I, as a reader, think are crap in order to find the one golden recommendation.
Yes! YES! IT'S ALL ABOUT ME.
(Um. I just woke up. Don't mind me. Will get caffeine now and attempt to wake up.)
no subject
Date: 2003-11-23 05:53 pm (UTC)So yeah, I'm very interested in seeing the nature of the bias next to the rec (which is what my second portion of the post was about, which most people skipped I guess, heh). Should I do that, then, do you think? I mean, I do think I have different ways to like a fic. Some fics, I think are wonderfully styled, some just hit me in the gut, some are just solidly and tightly written/characterized/plotted. I rec them all without clarifying which are which 'cause there's no short-cut way to sort them that I can think of right now, you know? I mean, what should I do, "squee" recs vs. "thinking" recs vs. "aesthetic" recs?
Right now my page is organized into "drama", "humor", pairing & author categories. I don't know who the hell reads that page, anyway, and I figure mostly no one does, so I don't bother, you know? Also, in each particular story? I have like, 500 fics I could rec, it'd kill me to review them all. Also, I expect the only people who'd care would trust my tastes anyway. Not that most people -do- have tastes similar to mine, so maybe it doesn't matter.
If I think about -most- stories intellectually, I can rip 100 holes in them and then I don't feel like reccing them at -all-. It's sort of the way I can't think of -anyone- who writes IC!Draco if I start really getting tough, y'know? I can be very very demanding, so usually I just go for the "okay, feels great, less filling" sort of thing. I dunno. I also feel my position on any fic I seriously rec to be generally intellectually (if not logically) defensible. I mean, for people who're looking for factor X, Y and Z, anyway, which is all anyone could ever claim.
And yes, I know, CC's Trilogy -isn't- the best thing since sliced bread, but I've seen -much-, much more bitching about it than pimping. I've never -yet- found a post pimping it and yet I've seen like, 10+ bitching about it, so it's disproportionate to me. If not for all the vitriol, the only squeeing would be when new chapters come out-- which isn't often. Also, it's just sad because it's NOT THAT BAD. I dunno. It's like-- okay, people squee about Everwood. I don't even know what Everwood -is-, so I don't -care-. No one -has- to read the Trilogy-- I mean, -I- haven't, y'know? I've barely read all of `Draco Veritas' (okay, no, I haven't by a long-shot). So yeah. I -still- haven't read most of it, but I like what I -have- read. And I believe this is a defensible position that can be discussed. And mindless squeeing isn't something you can counter with griping about the same-old same-old "graarr plagiarism" and "graaaar OOC!Draco", since everyone and their -brother- (including most of the critics!!1) writes OOC Draco. *siiiigh*
no subject
Date: 2003-11-23 06:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-11-23 06:33 pm (UTC)*has dancing visions of color-coding* eheheheh
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Date: 2003-11-23 06:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-11-23 06:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-11-23 06:45 pm (UTC)