~~ to rec or not to rec, that is the question.

[reenka]

I know how people get annoyed seeing the same uber-popular fics recced all the time, and oh yeah, I definitely empathize. Except I definitely also get really really irritated seeing the same fics anti-recced, too. It's always the same fanfics, whether they're being bashed or fangirled. It perpetuates the cycle. It spreads the disease, man.

Not to mention! No fic is -that- bad or -that- good. I fail to see why so many intelligent people feel the need to harp on something just because it's popular, whereas lots and lots of other fics are just as bad and most often -worse-. The only difference being that they're not pimped as loudly.

This isn't a phenomenon only seen in fanfic reccing, of course. The most hyped-up movies are also the most trashed ones by the critics. Speaking as someone who sometimes enjoys such movies shamelessly and sometimes hates them and sometimes can't be bothered-- it's kind of embarrassing to call yourself a critic and always descend to this petty bashing of the popular kids. I realize no one -cares- if you don't like some obscure art-house movie. But there's such a thing as a critic's integrity, too.

When people ask me what fics I can't stand, I usually name ones the other person hasn't heard of. Most people haven't read `Perfect Imperfection' or `All Torn Down' or `Ruses'-- but so what? I often think the whole idea of anti-reccing is fishy because it implies the person has read the fic in question beforehand-- otherwise they're not really going to -understand- what the big deal is unless you summarize the fic for them and have them sort of read it vicariously. Overall, it's more useful to generalize the flaws you see and try to promote good writing techniques rather than beat on these few popular stories, whether they're deservedly so or not. Though I admit partly it's just that I -like- IP and feel a tad embarrassed, eheheh.
~~

A few days ago, I was thinking slightly about isiscolo's post about the necessary exclusivity of recs & the issue of needing to trust the reccer.


I wondered (once again) what exactly my bias is. I never really think about how I'm biased-- I rec mostly as a personal reference to myself, so it's implicit which fics are just "good porn" or "squee" or "deep" or "emotionally impactful". I don't know if that's useful to put next to my recs, though maybe I should. I definitely rec based on emotional reaction (laughter, sadness, pain, wonder, thoughtfulness, stylistic beauty, with style often dominating). It seems to me that any story can be written well or badly, but often enough this doesn't correlate to whether people would want to read it or not. People have their issues they're looking to see explored, types of characterizations they favor, things they notice while reading.

I think a number of people just don't -notice- the things I notice. I mean, I don't really know if/how many people do trust my recs, though I assume a number of people find my opinion valid, otherwise they wouldn't read it. Even so, I think the things I perceive are seen as -interesting- rather than er... evident.

As a writer, I think I tend to write to a certain audience-- all writers do, implicitly. There are certain givens in everyone's writing, unstated but always there. "This is what human beings act like." One might think it's universal, and it might be in a way, but not every writer has the same level and type of understanding of that universal. I tend to intuitively notice the sort of philosophy implied in people's writing-- it's just what comes naturally to me. So some of the thing that really attracts me or annoys me about a story is likely to be that subtle philosophical edge. Everything implies a philosophy of living, even Wal-Mart ads.

In a way, I think it's more interesting to delineate bias than to argue over specific instances in particular fics. Because once I start thinking about particular fics and whether they're good or bad and get into an argument about it, my temper starts to rise. It's very easy to start thinking that people have no taste and that they're just deluded. Most people just don't think about -why- a certain story appeals to them, but breaking it down too much could be counter-productive too, since a good story transcends categories and is just emotionally suited to its "ideal reader".

The thing is, there really isn't any reccer I trust completely. I've never really met someone with the same taste as me, even in the very limited world of H/D fics. I think eleveninches and I have the closest tastes of anyone else whose recs I've read in the fandom, but that's mostly 'cause she's very selective and generally I can trust her to look at the whole story rather than any particular emotional kink it has. That's usually a good recipe for something I'll enjoy at least on the "oh, good stuff" level if not the squeeing madness level.

That's kind of funny, isn't it? The same people who cry indignantly at IP also rec some of the most bland and boring dreck ever written in the pairing. I mean, just because it doesn't have purple prose or overt symbolism doesn't mean it's subtle and cutting and perfectly balanced by any means. But now I'm just kind of complaining, so I'll stop.
~~

You know how I said I hatehatehate pimping? Well, that's other people's pimping, not my own, ehehehe.

I was feeling all irritated and cranky, and then I stumbled upon one of my favorite HP fanartists-- Syrena Doné of jareth.com & Severus Snape's Slytherin Society. I love her Draco and her Snape. They're so... evil. *cries with joy* There's also this odds n' ends gallery with 'puter-hating!Snape, omg. Hee! I have this... thing against evil!Draco in fanfic but I -love- and adore seeing that awful sneer and the maniacally vicious glint in his eye. It just makes me warm and fuzzy. Her inking style is just so old-fashioned and intricate and the characterization so vivid and canon. Also, bathtub!Snape has my heart.

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, um. *laughs* Usually this happens in locked posts, and the thing that got me going just now was an anti-rec post of cathexys' where actually no one mentioned UL, but it reminded me. I'll remember that you're curious in the future, heh, though it's not like it's really constructive crit or anything, just griping.

I think I mentioned UL!Draco as being arguably in-character in some list I made of in-character Draco fics, and people jumped all over that, saying he wasn't. And I was like, yeesssss, I can see how you'd say that, but also, it's Harry's pov and also that's Maya's reader's interpretation/vision of him which is as valid as anyone's if it does stem from canon.

But eh. A lot of people take canon and have vastly different conclusions grow from it. Your Draco is sympathetic and that's enough to make him OOC to some people ^^;

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

This is true. When I was a wee baby newbie I kept reading people ranting about Draco and then flipping anxiously through canon going 'clearly, he stabbed someone or ate a pet bunny somewhere in here. Clearly. Why can't I find it!'
Wah. I love thee, my champion.
*goes off sadly to her mommy to wail that nobody loves her darling, and be comforted/horrified into memory loss with stories of lesbian porn.*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

AHAHAH THE CHAMPION THING IS NOW REMINDING ME OF SPIKE >:D<

(And omg, champion!Draco-- that just cracks me up. Only Draco could uphold the balance of good and evil within the universe! Whatever shall we -do-?!)

I was talking to Abaddon about this only last night-- well, whether Draco's more "hot" or more "adorable", because well, losers can't be hot and so on. And he was like, Draco's scary and fucked up and borderline psychotic (http://www.livejournal.com/users/orangewatcher/25150.html?thread=173886). Heh. And "nasty" rather than "sadly tormented". And I think he kind of identified with him too, so it's not a lack of Draco-love.

Redeemed!Draco is only popular with the plebes, man. *WEEPS*

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

*WEEPS* I don't even see any need for redemption! Someone is not 'redeemed' from being a brat! Lucius Malfoy needs 'redemption' but of course nobody ever writes that because it would, like, take forever.
*snarls* DAVID HE IS NOT BORDERLINE PSYCHOTIC. Well, okay, he might be, but I see no direct canonical evidence.
what Draco needs is a wake-up to reality, for most of the things he wants to come true so he can see how awful it all is, someone he respects to let him know about morals and once he becomes more secure, a few good slaps upside the head.
oh... no... this soapbox just rose right out of the ground under my feet. I'm sorry, my reena.
dude. I would love it so much if in the sixth book Dumbledore was all like 'miscalculation of the prophecy, Draco is champion!' Because. Gales of laughter. World so screwed. OMG.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

EHEHEHE, OMG SOMEONE SHOULD WRITE PROPHECIZED!DRACO ACCIDENTALLY DEFEATING VOLDEMORT :D :D :D
The whole idea is so hilarious it kills me, especially the Slytherin's reactions (they'd hate it), and Draco's reaction (he'd hate it) and everyone's reaction (they'd all hate it), omg. Best. Idea. EVAR!!1 *hyperventilates* It'd only work if Draco didn't get any nicer whatsoever, you know, but now-- it's like he's in Harry's shoes. It's kill or be killed!! OMG I ADORE IT SO. Ha!! 'Cause so much of -Harry's- issues stem from the fate he didn't choose, so like, if -Draco- also had one, or had one instead, it'd be soooooooo much more interesting than all the Harry-in-Slytherin fics. Heh.

Also, I don't really think Draco needs to be redeemed (especially not with the normal definition where you'd have to actually do something that needs atonement), but really it's just shorthand for alread-redeemed!Draco, which is just a view on him where he's sympathetic. It's a crappy view, but like-- I think for a lot of people the boundary between "redeemed" and "unredeemed" is just between "palatable" and "unpalatable". Which sucks.

Heeeeee. I love your Draco the way I love thamiris' Lex (and Clark), because you make me see how natural it is to love them. And I think when you see someone as easy to love, you're seeing them as a human being, and that's closest to any reality I want to understand.

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

SNEEFLE.
AW. REENA, YOU SAY THE SWEETEST THINGS. AND I REALLY GET BEHIND THAT. Because. You know. Wah. Yes. Easy to love=person=howyoubreakmyheart.
Oh my God, I totally want to write prophecy!Draco now. Except, I really just want Silvia to write it, because I'd mess up that bland-statement-of-the-fantastical humour but yeah. Um. So tempted.

"So, *Potter*," Draco sneered. "I hear you're not the golden boy of prophecy anymore. Not the champion. Not everybody's darling. No more signing autographs for you, no sir, you'll have to look into gainful employment. But who could this be, the one everybody wants, the new shining star? Oh yes! I do believe it's *me.*"
Harry glared at him, wondered how the hell he'd gotten into Gryffindor tower anyway and then saw Colin Creevey gazing adoringly at a whole stack of signed photographs, with the ink still wet on them.
Typical. Fairweather fans.
"Terrific, Malfoy," he snarled. "And since it's you. What are you going to do about it?"
Draco blinked.
"When's the duel to the death with Voldemort?"
"What was that?" said Draco, going visibly paler and with his voice rising to a squeak. "No. Look. I'm delicate. I've never really been the same since that whole arm slashing incident. My father frowns on extra-curricular activities."
"So you haven't planned *anything*?" Harry said, incredulity and fury rising together. "Just came up here straight away to gloat, did you?"
Draco regained enough self-possession to sneer.
"Well," he said loftily, "I would've thought that would be *obvious.*"

... errrr. Sorry again, reena.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

OMG!!11!1!! *HAS CONNIPTION*
*CLINGS TO YOUR ANKLES*
YOU MUST WRIIIITE THIIIIIIS OH THE LOVE <333333333333333333333333
*breathes*
I WOULD LOVE YOU (EVEN MORE) OMG YOU HAVE NO IDEA!!1 *INCOHERENT*
OH GOD. SO IN LOVE. *pants*
love this so much; had to restrain self from squeeing too loudly in 'puter lab. the comedic genius of this whole things knocks me DEAD. deaditellyouDEAD. and! silvia wouldn't do it past a short-fic and she's all QAF right now and OMG GUH. i will never leave you be, pestering you 'til you do it, you realize this don't you :D :D :D

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

*adds to 'Can Blackmail Reena With' list*
no, don't tempt me, got to finish book...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

ehehehe I LIVE TO TEMPT YOU!!1 >:D
(or, something like that).
also!! like. you can write it in pieces! and! after UL! and!!

YOU JUST HAVE TO WRITE IT OMG GUH *incoherent meebling*
just think of the glory..!..!! or... something. also! it'd be fun, y'know. eheheheheh. *evil look*

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

You know what I need to write someday? Harry borrows Draco's new watch and wears it to the Last Battle, and right as Voldemort casts the Killing Curse, Draco runs in front of Harry with an Indignant Expression, crying, "You have stolen my most precious timepiece, knave!" and the curse bounces off Draco's monocle and destroys Voldemort once and for all.

It has a nicer ring than MigrantFarmer!Snape, I think.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*chortles in glee*
it's comments like this that i live for, man.
we are truly sisters in spirit. *giggle!!*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

.... except why would he borrow draco's watch? *ponders*

perhaps this was the watch draco left behind in his bookbag to incriminate harry...? or the watch harry found ramdomly in the halls? or the watch future!Draco sent harry as a love token?? heeee

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

You jest, and yet I stare at TextEdit with a pondering eye. This fandom is crack.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

WRITE IT, WRIIIIIITE IIIIIIIT :D :D :D

and i'll badger maya into that champion!draco epic, JUST YOU WAIT >:D
*manic laugh*

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

You're going to break the fandom.
*claps hands merrily*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*IS SO FLATTERED, OMG!!1*

awwwww, you're too good to me. thank you, thank you.

*bows*

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

I really like some of your other fics (like the Ron/Pansy and the Imperius one), but I fall into the category of people who finds your Draco OOC.

I respect the fact that the version of Draco you write is very real and sympathetic for you, but personally, I just don't see anything in canon to support him as this witty, gorgeous, debonair man with everyone (including Harry) drooling after him. I think he's an angry, vicious, petty creep, and that he's utterly obsessed with Harry (whereas Harry just wishes that Draco would leave him the hell alone).

And I love the Draco I see in canon precisely for all of his obvious flaws and vulnerabilities. The Draco I see in cnon is a very human character, and even if I think he's an asshole I can understand why he acts the way he does. Whereas from my point of view, the Draco in UL is almost like this perfect fantasy of what a boy should be, which for me doesn't work. Because I find imperfection more interesting, I guess. (And as for him not strangling fluffy bunnies ... well, he did try to get a Hippogriff executed, after all!)

I also have some technical issues with UL, but I don't think it's fair to belabor this point, because you wrote most of the fic a very long time ago, and your more recent fics (esp. the Imperius one, which -- with the exception of the fact that everyone in the story likes Draco and finds him charismatic and charming! wah!!! -- was absolutely wonderful) show that your writing has obviously matured a lot since then. The Imperius one actually gave me nightmares, it affected me so deeply. Fery few fics have ever unsettled and moved me the way that one did. And the writing was really tight and gorgeous and ... just perfect. That's the only word I can use. Perfect.

(Maybe it's 'cos you mostly write happier fics, and so when you write something that was out of your normal range it felt less self-indulgent? Because I've often noticed the reverse ... people who write fics that are too darque and angsty for me to stomach often then turn around and write really great, tight humor pieces, for example. Well, I'm probably making no sense here, and I'm sure there are a thousand of counter-examples to what I'm saying. Eek.)

Anyway, I don't say any of this to start a flamewar or a debate or even to try to convert you to my view of Draco (or vice-versa). Obviously, the version you write of him works for you and for a lot of other people, and I don't think either of us could ever really convince the other of our very different takes on Draco's characterization. I'm just explaining why some folks do see him differently, and so that would be why a fic like UL really doesn't work for them. Which doesn't invalidate what you're doing in your fic, or invalidates other people's affection for it. It's just a difference of opinion, really.

Which is okay, because diversity is a Good Thing.

Shine on, you crazy diamond!

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Cool, got opinion! Okay, thank you! *beams*
See, I mean, yes, Underwater Light has a lot of problems in it. (as do all my fics, actually. Woe!) And also, not trying to convert you, because, yeah, that's pointless. But just replying! Okay? Okay.
Because you see, I'd agree partially. He is angry and vicious, because he feels like an impotent failure, and sometimes he is a creep, though I'd think he's at his creepiest when around people he dislikes. (lo, Harry.)
and I'd arge that of course everyone isn't obsessed with him (for instance, the two main girl chars, Hermione and Ginny.)
But he's popular, which means that he probably does have a measure of charisma, and he's once or twice had a way with words, and wit usually does improve when one gets older. And I tried to write something in which he wasn't quite so frustrated and impotent (which I agree he is in canon!) because he did have a purpose, and the influence of his father - which in my mind is a partial cause for his fury and prejudices - is removed, because, yeah, otherwise I don't see why Harry would like him.
And yet I see what you're saying, because I also tried to use POV a lot, because I got all fascinated with JKR's POV and subverting it because I liked the Slytherins, and obviously Harry's POV in UL is that of one who is intrigued, then liking because he's seeing Draco's positive side, and finally crushing, and hence not of the objective. Like, for instance, I was reading it over (cringing as I do) and somewhere it said Draco was really self-possessed and I was like, OMG, OOC, BAD ME! DRACO? and then I remembered that this was Harry-at-disadvantage POV, that Draco does like to do the whole cool-drawl thing in canon and has probably gotten better at it, and that Draco does totally lose his rag whenever he's ruffled. But if I didn't remember that, I mean my God, who else is supposed to?
So. Yeah, perfect Draco is terrible in my head, and in my head neither canon!Draco nor UL!Draco is at all perfect, or indeed not-gittish. Though I admit UL!Draco's come a way. (a long way, baby... ahem, sorry.)
I mean, though, we're not going to agree because yeah, I do have a great affection for Draco and have inferred some things like the wit which definitely aren't directly canon. So, I mean, it is all opinion, and I can see why yours is justified. And, cool, thanks again for your opinion. Because I was curious! And then there it was. Huzzah.
You should also shine on, crazy whichever-jewel-you-like-best!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Wow, you just mentioned something I've been seeing numerous times but didn't really verbalize and didn't think necessarily worked across different authors. So I thought maybe it was a fluke. But yes! Omg, this is true. So very many happy-fluff authors, when they write a serious angsty fic, do it with startling verve and uniqueness, and I tend to like it so much more.
I mean, Maya knows (I think?) that UL isn't my favorite of her stuff, and I like the darker pieces better even if I'm kind of addicted to UL.
And conversely, this also does work with -several- (like, 3 off the top of my head) other light/humor writers doing angst. And conversely for several dark-angsty writers doing humor. I tend to find the humor in those cases very condensed and biting and brilliantly understated often enough.

This isn't -always- true (some people just -can't- write humor for the life of them, and shouldn't try), but when it is, it's really startling, so I'm kind of glad you've noticed, too.

The whole "less self-indulgent" thing definitely makes sense, yes. Although this doesn't apply to me entirely in terms of genre (I can be self-indulgent and good -or- bad with humor or angst), I do find that whenever I write a fic that doesn't come naturally to me (usually this means "not H/D"), I'm proudest of it later, because it's tighter and more focused. That's why I'm so invested in my few unreleased H/D's (especially the novella)-- because while it's a self-indulgent subject, I -am- trying and I -want- to attain some level of honesty and intensity that's consistent, you know?

And I'd be really proud of myself if I succeeded and could just approach all my writing sharply. *sighs wistfully*

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Eeenteresting. No, I didn't know. (this is a day of revelations!)
it's funny, because I always think of everything *but* UL as self-indulgent, because I feel a responsibility to make it good, but everything else I just write because I want to, at warp speed, and without much thought to ICness.
I think you two are sort of saying something along the lines of (was it Swift?) 'kill your darlings.' Which on one level, I'd agree with in that sometimes like regular muscles when it hurts you're doing it right, but then also that you should write what you like and what you *see*, because without the vision and the passion I see no reason to continue doing so.
Though again, I think both of you agree with Lasair, so maybe I should just shut up and listen to the smarter people. I mean, I'm not going to, but still.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh most definitely! There's no reason to write without the vision & the passion, and that's why I think one should kind of... write painfuly and with passion at the same time, like I want to do with my H/D's lately. Because otherwise it's not really -saying- what's really in my heart, and that's what I want to do. I mean, I'm -proud- of my H/R/Hr and my Pansy piece and my Hermione piece (and even the unreleased Snape/Draco) because I feel they were -stylistically tighter-, but I think if I just -try harder- my H/D's will also attain this sort of dual thing, you know?

I think... I dunno. I tend to like most people's short stories better than their longfic (this doesn't apply to published authors since we generally don't see their short stories, and anyway, they're Really Really Good). This applies to Cassie Claire and Aja & Ivy & you. But not to Rhysenn, whose short pieces leave me flat. So it's not across the board or anything, but I think that a little distance -and- passion is ideal. I don't know how to do that, exactly. Maybe it's that flurry of -idea- pushing you to write more than the self-indulgent aspect? You're writing for the -sake- of writing rather than for the sake of some distant plot-point or the pairing (a number of people just want that "H/D novel"-- well, I did). So maybe a shorter, unexpected fic is more pure, somehow?

In a way it's -more- a product of passion, maybe? Impulse?
Okay, I'm lost :D

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

I guess some of it depends on what you are writing for. I try to get by calling myself a fluff writer, most of the time, but the fact is more of my fics are pretty depressing, and some of them are, artistically, really good. But I hate them. I usually wrote them while majorly hormonal or something, and hated every minute of it, and can't stand to look at them once they're done. Whereas when I write fluff, it's fun and I like it and it makes me happy.

I'd rather be happy than good, I think.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean re: hating to write those pieces, 'cause a lot of the angst I write (and take seriously-- some I just-- don't) really takes a lot out of me and I just hate it -so much- while writing. It's ridiculous. I mean, much later I do feel happy/proud 'cause I'm fickle and my stories grow dim in my mind after awhile, but yes. I wanna be good -and- happy. It may wind up making me neither, but I'm stubborn and also I grew up with all these expectations to make something of myself (or rather my brain). *cringes*

So yeah, I try not to call myself any "sort" of writer. If I write a happy fic, I'd rather not see it as "fluff", and same with angsty. Just because I want to see stories as just -stories-, ones that had to get out of my brain and sometimes the birth is more pleasant than other times :>

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

Well, admittedly, most of the time I am just writing stories, and they are what they are. But I can think of a few that are just so hopeless and helpless I cannot go back and look at them. Ah well.

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Yes, I always thought of myself as an 'everything' author, because Life Is Panoramic, and also I had my, like, author identity all established in my head before I began fanfic and it was all over the board.
and yet, classification is funny, because a lot of people were shocked over 'Dark Side of Light' because 'YOU WRITE FLUFF.' so, hee.