~~ don't dominate me plz.
Oct. 7th, 2003 04:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI sit there in my PoMo theory class and immediately apply the ideas to my recent watching of Level C (which is really bad yaoi) and slash-fic. How deeply wrong is that? Sigh. We've gotten to Derrida, who's always appealed to me. Having passed Heiddegger, who's also always appealed to me. Funny thing is, using them as a foundation for a world-view -doesn't- appeal to me. It's like, now they're "canon", and that sucks. But anyway.
Level C sucks greasy monkey balls, man. I shouldn't have spent the... what... 20-or-so hours downloading it on my 56.6 connection, but I was like, boyporn!!1 ...And of course the lesson is obvious: there's porn and then there's porn. I should've learned that trolling ff.net, but I'm just slow like that.
The reason Level C sucks (besides having a really stupid plot, insipid characters, an impossible set-up and kind of icky animation for the uke-- I mean seriously, -girls- don't have those kind of eyelashes, even in anime)... is just how much it buys into the seme/uke thing. I realized that this just illustrates that while I -can- buy into the dom/sub binary opposition (for instance, Heero-as-uke really doesn't work for me), it really is a stupid opposition. I mean... especially in Level C, it's obvious that the uke is basically a girl-- they don't even show a cock. It's like a phantom cock, with shimmery hazy outlines. It's a weepy, clingy, unrealistically girly girl. There could be a drinking game for every time that boy burst into tears, man. Everyone would be very drunk.
I mean, then I realize-- okay, supposedly in "real life", there -is- a division between "givers" and "takers", and then there -are- these girly boys with the make-up and the squealing and the acting like divas. I don't know if it has much to do with their gayness per se, but I dunno. I'm bi and I know nothing, man. Nothing.
Even -if- it's "realistic" to some extent-- I mean, girly girls who want a manly man to dominate them exist, too. Western society makes sure of it, right. Does that make it into something to perpetuate, though?
What my problem is, basically, is taking this question of who has whose cock up whose arse and making it into a question of identity-- of some basic essence of an individual. How backward is that? It's like, now we have feminism so we feel women should be equals to the men they're with, but we feel free to have this ridiculous power imbalance be "okay" between two men? And even if the person in question -wants- that to be their identity-- should the writer buy into this fiction?
Doesn't this assume that identity is static, and one is "born" a dom or a sub, uke or seme, respectively? I mean, you don't need to think long to see that basing your identity around what your cock does is just... problematic. And if it -doesn't- go where it's supposed to go, does this then imply a whole rethinking of who you as a person?
Mostly it's yaoi that really doesn't sit well with me now rather than slash, though slash has its offenders as well. I mean, my -god-, the uke is -tiny- compared to the seme. Tiny. And what the hell is up with the very -concept- of there being a "dominant partner" in a relationship? It's like... okay, this is reminding me of a pack of wolves now, not how people should be. Although maybe they are that way.
It seems to me that there's something problematic about the idea of "submission" as far as it relates to identity. It's almost like... voluntary indentured servitude, then. As in, "okay, I'll be your bitch." Maybe that's why I prefer writing about boys, and bi boys at that. I like to be as far away from adult gender-roles as possible, man. Boys are much more likely to be in a relationship with equals, if they're friends or rivals; their (sexual) identity more likely to be in flux.
It's funny, because I've seen people say they write slash because it messes with gender-roles and such (well, Ivy, but others too). And then you notice that while we live in an age where gender-roles are routinely challenged between the opposite sexes, no one goes around noticing what same-sex pairings are acting like, so basically you can get away pasting old, traditionalist morality onto these couples (marriage and mpreg are just the more extreme examples-- you also have the sheer stubbornness of some people as to who does the fucking and who gets fucked). I mean, if you consider yourself a modern person, you won't go around saying, 'of course, the woman has to be on the bottom', would you. Not any more than you'd go around saying, 'not to mention that the man of course dominates in the bedroom in every other way, as well'.
Thinking of anime again, I'm trying to remember the straight smut I've seen. Not a lot of material here, mind you, but... most definitely, there's a much, much greater range of behavior there, and I wouldn't say that most m/f anime couples have a dominant male and a submissive female by -far-. In fact, some of my most favorite couples-- in anime and other pop culture-- have a dominant female instead (Hermione, Buffy, Tsukushi, Sana even, heh). I even have a soft spot for Lily/James as seen in Book 5 -because- Lily is so much more together than James. You can tell he's not gonna be bossing her around anytime soon. So at least we usually have a plucky female. Gotta love that word: plucky. Doesn't it make us females feel ever so... empowered? Look, we're plucky. We can cut the guy down to size. Woo for female powah! etc.
I think it's interesting to note that in slash and yaoi it's almost like there's a re-invention of gender-roles; not only that, outdated ones. People assume (slashfic writers, anyway) that just because it's two males, it's -okay- if you separate them into "types", because maybe it's clear that they have some sort of intrinsic equality just because they're both the same gender? As if that gave servants equality. As if that ever gave anyone equality, really.
What really matters often enough, I think, isn't gender but status. I mean, gender will often open the door (as in, hey, we're all men here), but it's up to the person's particular life circumstances to assure their acceptance as equals. Like... one wonders if being a Malfoy means accepting Weasleys or women more. Male Muggle-borns or women. Male Gryffindors or female Slytherins, and so on.
There's a thin line between "well, it's more in character for Harry to not allow himself to be vulnerable enough to Malfoy to be fucked up the arse" and "well, there's always gotta be a bottom, and that's like the `girl', you know". Both are problematic, really, from a theoretical perspective. Basically, what bothers me is the linkage between sexual practices and emotional dispositions and general couple behavior. What do sexual positions have to do with what kind of person you are, really? At first glance, nothing, unless you -make- them be connected. Say, you suppose someone needs/wants power and control. You assume they're always going to be going after this control, and if they don't get it, they'd leave...? And then, just to muddle things, you have the idea that it's really the -bottom- who's in control, 'cause the top has to make sure the bottom is enjoying themselves or something, but this gets into the BDSM aspect of things, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
It's not so much that rigid sexual/gender roles are -unrealistic-, as I said; merely that it seems like an echo of more sinister old ideals of separation between the sexes.
My own favorite pairings are always about a power-exchange, a flux of some sort, something unsettled and always up for grabs. That's the most interesting scenario as I see it. Obviously not everyone has to see it that way, but I -do- think that writing a character as "dominant" and another as "submissive" is one step down the "slippery slope" (and how annoying is -that- phrase) towards crying!uke and self-confident!seme.
I do think that one character will usually be best characterized as more "hung up on" power, more likely to be the aggressor, and that's fine. There are more aggressive and less aggressive people, okay. But this almost invites the concept of "winners" and "losers" into the bedroom, which is just... unsavory to me. The question is, where does it stop? Where is it 'right' to stop with the 'dom' aspect of a character...? Do you have the other character go down on one knee and expose their throat? Do you have them whine and go belly-up? I mean, is that really so far-fetched, considering some of the fic out there?
Anyway, I've run out of steam. Mostly-- Level C is bad, don't watch it. Seme/uke-ness annoys me. If I watched too much yaoi (which I don't, I watch series that get fanficced into yaoi), I'd probably give up and watch het again, with its saner ideas about sex. Which would be a tragedy, wouldn't it~:)
EDIT - On the other hand... mmmmm, there's always QAF US. Briiiiian.... Justinnnn..... Dude. That totally works for me. I'm a complete hypocrite. Either that or it really -is- all about the particular chemistry of any two people having to convince you of whatever the dynamic is.
Level C sucks greasy monkey balls, man. I shouldn't have spent the... what... 20-or-so hours downloading it on my 56.6 connection, but I was like, boyporn!!1 ...And of course the lesson is obvious: there's porn and then there's porn. I should've learned that trolling ff.net, but I'm just slow like that.
The reason Level C sucks (besides having a really stupid plot, insipid characters, an impossible set-up and kind of icky animation for the uke-- I mean seriously, -girls- don't have those kind of eyelashes, even in anime)... is just how much it buys into the seme/uke thing. I realized that this just illustrates that while I -can- buy into the dom/sub binary opposition (for instance, Heero-as-uke really doesn't work for me), it really is a stupid opposition. I mean... especially in Level C, it's obvious that the uke is basically a girl-- they don't even show a cock. It's like a phantom cock, with shimmery hazy outlines. It's a weepy, clingy, unrealistically girly girl. There could be a drinking game for every time that boy burst into tears, man. Everyone would be very drunk.
I mean, then I realize-- okay, supposedly in "real life", there -is- a division between "givers" and "takers", and then there -are- these girly boys with the make-up and the squealing and the acting like divas. I don't know if it has much to do with their gayness per se, but I dunno. I'm bi and I know nothing, man. Nothing.
Even -if- it's "realistic" to some extent-- I mean, girly girls who want a manly man to dominate them exist, too. Western society makes sure of it, right. Does that make it into something to perpetuate, though?
What my problem is, basically, is taking this question of who has whose cock up whose arse and making it into a question of identity-- of some basic essence of an individual. How backward is that? It's like, now we have feminism so we feel women should be equals to the men they're with, but we feel free to have this ridiculous power imbalance be "okay" between two men? And even if the person in question -wants- that to be their identity-- should the writer buy into this fiction?
Doesn't this assume that identity is static, and one is "born" a dom or a sub, uke or seme, respectively? I mean, you don't need to think long to see that basing your identity around what your cock does is just... problematic. And if it -doesn't- go where it's supposed to go, does this then imply a whole rethinking of who you as a person?
Mostly it's yaoi that really doesn't sit well with me now rather than slash, though slash has its offenders as well. I mean, my -god-, the uke is -tiny- compared to the seme. Tiny. And what the hell is up with the very -concept- of there being a "dominant partner" in a relationship? It's like... okay, this is reminding me of a pack of wolves now, not how people should be. Although maybe they are that way.
It seems to me that there's something problematic about the idea of "submission" as far as it relates to identity. It's almost like... voluntary indentured servitude, then. As in, "okay, I'll be your bitch." Maybe that's why I prefer writing about boys, and bi boys at that. I like to be as far away from adult gender-roles as possible, man. Boys are much more likely to be in a relationship with equals, if they're friends or rivals; their (sexual) identity more likely to be in flux.
It's funny, because I've seen people say they write slash because it messes with gender-roles and such (well, Ivy, but others too). And then you notice that while we live in an age where gender-roles are routinely challenged between the opposite sexes, no one goes around noticing what same-sex pairings are acting like, so basically you can get away pasting old, traditionalist morality onto these couples (marriage and mpreg are just the more extreme examples-- you also have the sheer stubbornness of some people as to who does the fucking and who gets fucked). I mean, if you consider yourself a modern person, you won't go around saying, 'of course, the woman has to be on the bottom', would you. Not any more than you'd go around saying, 'not to mention that the man of course dominates in the bedroom in every other way, as well'.
Thinking of anime again, I'm trying to remember the straight smut I've seen. Not a lot of material here, mind you, but... most definitely, there's a much, much greater range of behavior there, and I wouldn't say that most m/f anime couples have a dominant male and a submissive female by -far-. In fact, some of my most favorite couples-- in anime and other pop culture-- have a dominant female instead (Hermione, Buffy, Tsukushi, Sana even, heh). I even have a soft spot for Lily/James as seen in Book 5 -because- Lily is so much more together than James. You can tell he's not gonna be bossing her around anytime soon. So at least we usually have a plucky female. Gotta love that word: plucky. Doesn't it make us females feel ever so... empowered? Look, we're plucky. We can cut the guy down to size. Woo for female powah! etc.
I think it's interesting to note that in slash and yaoi it's almost like there's a re-invention of gender-roles; not only that, outdated ones. People assume (slashfic writers, anyway) that just because it's two males, it's -okay- if you separate them into "types", because maybe it's clear that they have some sort of intrinsic equality just because they're both the same gender? As if that gave servants equality. As if that ever gave anyone equality, really.
What really matters often enough, I think, isn't gender but status. I mean, gender will often open the door (as in, hey, we're all men here), but it's up to the person's particular life circumstances to assure their acceptance as equals. Like... one wonders if being a Malfoy means accepting Weasleys or women more. Male Muggle-borns or women. Male Gryffindors or female Slytherins, and so on.
There's a thin line between "well, it's more in character for Harry to not allow himself to be vulnerable enough to Malfoy to be fucked up the arse" and "well, there's always gotta be a bottom, and that's like the `girl', you know". Both are problematic, really, from a theoretical perspective. Basically, what bothers me is the linkage between sexual practices and emotional dispositions and general couple behavior. What do sexual positions have to do with what kind of person you are, really? At first glance, nothing, unless you -make- them be connected. Say, you suppose someone needs/wants power and control. You assume they're always going to be going after this control, and if they don't get it, they'd leave...? And then, just to muddle things, you have the idea that it's really the -bottom- who's in control, 'cause the top has to make sure the bottom is enjoying themselves or something, but this gets into the BDSM aspect of things, which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
It's not so much that rigid sexual/gender roles are -unrealistic-, as I said; merely that it seems like an echo of more sinister old ideals of separation between the sexes.
My own favorite pairings are always about a power-exchange, a flux of some sort, something unsettled and always up for grabs. That's the most interesting scenario as I see it. Obviously not everyone has to see it that way, but I -do- think that writing a character as "dominant" and another as "submissive" is one step down the "slippery slope" (and how annoying is -that- phrase) towards crying!uke and self-confident!seme.
I do think that one character will usually be best characterized as more "hung up on" power, more likely to be the aggressor, and that's fine. There are more aggressive and less aggressive people, okay. But this almost invites the concept of "winners" and "losers" into the bedroom, which is just... unsavory to me. The question is, where does it stop? Where is it 'right' to stop with the 'dom' aspect of a character...? Do you have the other character go down on one knee and expose their throat? Do you have them whine and go belly-up? I mean, is that really so far-fetched, considering some of the fic out there?
Anyway, I've run out of steam. Mostly-- Level C is bad, don't watch it. Seme/uke-ness annoys me. If I watched too much yaoi (which I don't, I watch series that get fanficced into yaoi), I'd probably give up and watch het again, with its saner ideas about sex. Which would be a tragedy, wouldn't it~:)
EDIT - On the other hand... mmmmm, there's always QAF US. Briiiiian.... Justinnnn..... Dude. That totally works for me. I'm a complete hypocrite. Either that or it really -is- all about the particular chemistry of any two people having to convince you of whatever the dynamic is.
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no subject
Date: 2003-10-08 06:59 pm (UTC)So being back in these tight cliques...I don't think I've really seen that since my first fandom BtVS (just about anything in between that I read was kind of default OTP...I mean, if there are only two central characters who have 95% of the screen time, it's pretty hard to ship much else :-)
As for the H/D, H/R comparison...no! I see the dynamics as fundamentally different...kaiz at some point said that friendship shipping is a kink (and that explained so much to me :-)...for me that's an entirely different ballgame to the enemy-turned-lover, thin line approach...
As for H/S personally...I totally started with H/D and it's still something I can see more than anything (well, not more than Ron but I find that pairing so very very boring!). I read all the good and long ones but was overall somewhat disenchanted with the fandom at large...many of these heavily recced stories left me very underwhelmed...and then ff.net...omg! and the wip's
So I was just about ready to call it quits when I read a few H/S fics...I never saw (nor do I now see) the attraction in the pairing...but i liked the fic...I mean, I'm a slasher at heart...I started reading popslash and couldn't name more than one boybander each...and *then* I began to become a source fan...even in hp I didn't read books 3-5 until after I had a share amount of fics read... (in fact, just about every fandom I've been in I either don't particularly enjoy the source text or came to it via the fic)
So I'm fascinated with the way Snape is written and re-envisioned by the Snape writers...I care for the fannish Snapes, canonical or not much more than for Rowlings' (and you can now unfriend me and bar me from any hp fannishness :-)
As for the age thing...for me it's a lot more about the writing than it is about Snape's age...I mean, Justin's now 22 which means most stories have him underage...Clark's still in high school...maybe the more mature writers are drawn to Snape b/c his issues are more complex? And yes, the romantic first love true forever is something the 25+ crowd (and gee do you draw that line low...) has been there done that, I suppose...
Which doesn't mean it's not an appealing fiction! As with the predetermination and the teacher/student fic it may be the very thing I doubt in RL that appeals in fanfic...
As for pomo...OK, we *are* on the same wave length (if you didn't see it, I am right now revising an entire paper on the postmodernism of fanfic and rps in particular :-)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-08 08:11 pm (UTC)Funny, I ship friends half the time, really-- well, Mulder & Scully and stuff. There's always Mulder and Scully~:) I think they confuse me, 'cause I tend to be all about the platonic lurve between most friends. It's more intense that way, somehow.
I actually didn't read the books for like... a year. I was that dissatisfied with JKR's writing. Back in 2000, I picked up the first book and was so horrified and disgusted at the 10+ pages about the Dursleys, I asked my then-bf to shoot me if I ever do wind up reading them.
Heh. Even now, sometimes I question the tastes of everyone who's mad about the books and talks about how genius they are. Even though I'm sort of crazy about the last two. Mmmm, angst.
I was pretty interested in Snape during the Snape panel at Nimbus. For some reason it was like a lightbulb went on in my head and I was all, "Oh! Snape! His past! Huh!"
So now I'm all about the canon Snape. This also has to do with the fact that I've never read any fanon Snape, really, since I only read H/D and H/S smut and some R/S. Heh. Which sounds so sad and limited of me. I do branch out into Tom/Hagrid (well, there was a brief period where friends of mine were writing it... gah... so good, strangely enough) and some femmeslash....
I'm wary of fanon Snape and his non-greasy hair and his sexiness. I dunno why it made sense to me immediately to see Draco as brilliantly blond (I used to write odes to his hair)and sex-goddy but not Snape. I read romantic!Snape (vs sexual-predator!Snape... mmmmm, Predatrix) and cringe. God, it's just so pathetic imagining him in love with Harry. And then there's "Oh Professor, I've had a crush on you ever since sixth year!". Ack. Ack. Ack. Scrub my brain now.
Last H/S fic I read was Predatrix, I think, with the snake!Snape (or was it Predatrix? Not sure), with Harry masturbating himself with Snape-as-animagus. Ahahahahah god I love just remembering it. It's all about the sick twisted bend-over-desk-and-say-please-Professor (another memorable H/S with top!Harry).... to me :D
I get burnt out with fandom again and again. I'd prolly have quit awhile ago but I -still- haven't finished all the fics in my head and I haven't finished reading the big wip's I'm addicted to. I keep telling myself I'll leave as soon as I'm "done", heh. I -want- to leave, but then, if it's not one addiction it's another.
I think I just go off in tangents a lot, which sort of muddles everything I say~:)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-08 08:36 pm (UTC)And the Harry that works for me with him is also pretty severely screwed up...in a way he must be more mature, older, bond over similar experiences...I mean the only way I can see Harry want and need Snape is in kind of a codependent relationship where noone else can handle Harry, b/c he is so very different and does have experienced things that set him apart tremendously from his friends and agemates...
A really impressive fic that did that for me and I'm not even sure why I like it so much is DragonLight's To Dream These Dreams (http://dragonlight.slashcity.org/darkcaverns/fic/otherfic/dream.htm). Now, I think the end is a bit problematic and if I recall, the long other story I read by this author was fun but not that impressive...but this one really grabbed me. It's really pre-slash at most, so you can read it *g* And it's the most impressive story I've read in a while!
But the stuff you say about H/S and H/D is interesting...could it be narcissism of small differences rather than them being too far apart :-)