~~ to sum up: wibble.

[reenka]

this is stupid, but.
    i just realized that the hardest thing for me to write, hands down, out of all possible plots and all possible stories, is h/d where draco doesn't really love harry.
    i can write about them dying, i can write about rape, murder, disease, disillusionment, break-up, jealousy, apathy, hatred, abuse, evil, anything, anything, even if i haven't yet.

but just a sincere, simple lack of love (given they're together to begin with) makes me want to run away screaming into the night.

i don't care if the character never shows it, or never realizes it in himself, or in fact believes something completely false. i don't care if they never get together, remain antagonistic, become friends-but-not-lovers, leave each other, hurt each other, betray each other, kill each other.

the idea that the thing is, one of them simply doesn't love the other is like... armageddon. i simply can't deal with it. my mind shuts down. i gibber and whine and want to cling to the skirts of somebody suspiciously maternal and non-existent because i never -did- that when i was -three-, forget now.

i'm not sure if this is a function of how i see having an otp, or just me being a basketcase, or what. but fact remains, i read and write romance because i -need- it. i need to believe it. i realize that as a serious writer, i need to be able to write about all the range of human relationships, which includes false love, deceptive love, love that never works out or really -flowers- into anything -true-. people are together for all sorts of stupid reasons. sometimes yes, for comfort, for reassurance, just not to be alone, just because they need -somebody-, somebody to validate them, somebody to hold them, just because it's easy. yes.

maybe it strikes too close to home, i don't know.
    this is when it becomes obvious i've invested -way- too much into them. at the point where i can't let them go, play with them this way and that, the way any author plays with their characters. they're not free to not love each other, and that's just scary. sigh.


maybe it's just that i think pretending is the worst possible of all fates, when it comes to love. playing at it, imagining you have what you don't. that's a complete nightmare, worse than any other betrayal, even though mostly, it's a consenting sort of thing where people just need the fiction to feel better. but that doesn't make it any more palatable, to me.
    it's sort of like finding out that you're really not special at all. it's like, there is no beauty. if they're not in love, how does love even -exist-? and if love doesn't exist, what's the point of anything? what's the point of them existing at all, if they don't love each other?? i may as well kill them off and put them out of their misery.

that is why. hackthis tends to call me the eternal optimist of h/d, because anytime she'd write a fic where it all falls apart and for instance, harry realizes that draco and him just don't work or it's not really real and was all based on a lie-- like `anatomy of a dysfunctional relationship', most recently-- i'd say, but no, see, this can't be the entire story, and in the future... and what they don't know yet is....

i guess i'm just terrified, more than anything. terrified of this black hole, this place where love doesn't reach, where the thing i put so much faith in is null and empty. sometimes it had seemed like i love them almost as much as they must love each other. if i wrote them not-in-love, i would be sort of mutilating my own heart. which sounds extreme. but it's true.
    i mean. maybe i can write it, but i'd have to have them break up and be -happy- about it, in the end. i dunno, be friends or something, and closer for it. sometimes these things don't work out, and you realize a relationship doesn't work, but then it was never -supposed- to, and that makes realizing that a -good- thing.

it's also just that-- in the end, i think love is so easy. you can say, well, this draco doesn't love harry, he just loves that harry loves him, and needs what harry gives him. but... but... false love turns -into- real love. by going through the motions of loving, if you're sincere, you do, in the end, love. all you need is to open up your heart, and someone's love can kindle your own. love breeds love. you can grow to love somebody, especially somebody as beautiful as harry. how can draco not?? how can he not? how? is he completely dead inside? if so, what makes harry love him in the first place? harry wouldn't waste his love on draco, not with their history between them. something strong, something irresistable would have to pull them together, like a force of nature. how can the connection be weak or one-way, and still bring together people with as much reason to stay apart and in hate as harry & draco?

when i was younger-- i dunno, when i was 13-16 or so-- i -hated- the idea of "growing to love" somebody. hated it. made me think of arranged marriages and cultured love like cultured pearls. i realized it -could- be done, but -why-? what's the point? artificial beauty, stripped of the wildness and unpredictable force of love seems flat and pointless. sigh.

gahd, i can't believe i'm freaking out about this ><;;
back to um... beta-then-qaf-because-even-i-know-there-are-more-important-things-than-gay-sex. or not, 'cause i'm betaing gay sex. heeee. ^^

Comments

[elke-tanzer.livejournal.com]

Just because various flavors of love exist does not mean that you need to choose to write them. Many "serious" writers only write one genre or a small handful of types of relationships in their stories/books/whatever.

And sometimes, complete indifference can be far more terrifying than hatred.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

thanks~:)
although... i have this niggling suspicion that if you're serious about getting better as a writer, you're supposed to do the things that come hardest to you. that's why i wrote the harry-rapes-draco fic, and everything. i'm a sucker for challenges, too. shouldn't i exorcise my demons, or... something?
*sigh* mental blocks bother me, in general.
but sometimes those blocks are there for a -reason-. apparently 'cause otherwise i turn into a gibbering fool. hee~:)

but yah, you're right. i dislike feeling i have limitations, though. although writing about things you can't believe in never really resulted in brilliant storytelling, so maybe it's just as well~:)

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

I am incapable of imagining a Harry who is not in love with Draco.
yesorderofthephoenixisgoingtobesointeresting.
I'm such a *freak.*
I don't know about the Draco part. Wah. I think I can. But he's always got to be, I don't know, *eventually capable* of being *fond of* Harry and...
Get me heeeelp.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. wah. i can empathize (well, obviously).
although, you know harry deserves better than a draco who's ...fond of him.
i think harry wouldn't really stay with draco if he thought they weren't both on a level, you know? or maybe that's just me.
i mean, i'm sure harry would still -love- him, no matter what, but as for remaining in any sort of relationship.... harry would need reassurance. and when you don't feed love, it sort of goes into the background. i don't think harry would remain actively in love with no encouragement... unless it's like cho... but it -can't- be like cho. 'cause he kind of sort of -hates- malfoy to begin with, so~:) something has to change that, and it can't be all harry.

*stubborn*! hee >:D

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Oh, I didn't mean in a relationship!
no, in a relationship they *must* be in love.
But, you know, I can see Draco with Hermione or Ginny or Pansy quite happily, and he'd be happy, and it'd be all good, but wah, I want them to be friends so badly somehow someday one day, but then Harry won't stop being in love with Draco.
for *my* warped brain, all he needs to do is to get to really really know him.
which you know he *would* Draco was dating Hermione or Ginny...
I'll take my vile het ships away.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

yah, this whole post was "-if- they were in a relationship" (and you know, i guess i wasn't clear-- as usual). heh. i mean, sure i think they're in love no matter what, but i wouldn't like, get spastic or anything, if they weren't together and even moreso if one of them was (*shudder*!!) heterosexual, ahahahaha.

i kind of reallyreallyreally hate draco-with-anyone-but-harry (although pansy is ok in theory... temporarily... as a default... something). the problem that i don't have with pansy is that he doesn't have to -love- pansy to be with her. but, if he were to be with hermione or ginny, he'd have to go through a similar transformative process as to be with harry. he'd have to reallyreallyreally love them, in order for those relationships to work at all. he'd have to change. he'd have to....well, do all those melodramatic and near-impossible feats that in my mind only harry could inspire in him, 'cause that's why i'm a shipper after all, it's because i think only harry could inspire those things in draco.

like, what does -harry- need -draco- for? except, i dunno, hot sex?
i mean, yes, -harry- might grow to be fond of draco if he got to know him, but love........
love would need a push, i think.
it's only within a mutual passionate love that harry would discover the moral fuzziness and the "other side" and what it's really like to leave everything you knew behind because the whole world is different now that you love this person. you know?
if they were friends... and draco was being in love with someone else, too... there wouldn't be a lot of room for harry's being transformed by draco in quite the radical fashion i want to imagine.
like... i suppose it's just that i think they both need -all- of each other. half-way doesn't really -work-, because they have so little to start with. i mean, dv!h&d work for me (even being hetero) because they -do- both have -all- of each other. if draco isn't in love with harry, then the concept isn't deep enough, because he simply doesn't feel-- neither of them feels for anyone else, what they feel for each other. that's the important thing.

so if draco did love a girl trulymadlydeeply, their relationship can't help but suffer. in my head, anyway. sigh.

[darklites.livejournal.com]

kind of reallyreallyreally hate draco-with-anyone-but-harry (although pansy is ok in theory... temporarily... as a default... something).

hahahahaha. Word on that. I cannot handle Draco/AnyGryffindorButHarry. When I try to read a D/Hr or D/G or D/R fic, my brain just seems to shut down, and everything inside me starts screaming, "This is wrong! Abort! Abort!" Or, you know, something a little less geeky. :) In my mind, Draco is plain too obsessed with Harry to really love anybody else. Reading about it makes me want to throw up, actually. I hate myself for being this narrow-minded sometimes, but I can't help it, as when I read those fics it simply feels as if I am going against the natural law, or something. Although I do read those fics once in awhile, why I do not know. Self-torture? :D (But yes, outside the context of a relationship, I can imagine Draco not loving Harry--but NOT him not loving Harry yet loving another Gryffindor.)

Funny thing is that I don't really mind reading Harry/Other at all, even "really in love with each other" Harry/Other (unless it's H/G *blanch*). And you're right, one of the main obstacles of H/D is why does Harry give a damn about Draco? Harry's not the sort of person who'd waste his time with someone who's not worth it. This is something that must be overcome--but I'm actually quite willing to suspend my beliefs sometimes, for that. I think one fic that does it really well is fearlessdiva's Tissue of Silver, though. I can really believe where it is that Harry begins to love that Draco.

Because I don't believe that Harry *can* fall in love--really really fall in love--with someone who's incapable of it. I think he will only really reciprocate that love when he's seen you (or believes you to be) deserving of it. And it's not really an arrogant thing, I think he just can't do it. If Draco doesn't love Harry, I think there is no relationship. And I think Harry is someone who can move on from love whole, or somewhat so. He will be okay, even if love ends. But Draco is one of those suffocatingly-intense people (he is so a water sign, ha) who gives absolutely everything in love and if it is taken away he will break apart. This stuff really fascinates me, the way people react so strongly, and so differently to H/D and other people...

I've friended you, by the way. Have been in the mood for more meta, haha. *waves*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. i totally agree with you... although, in the scenario i was reacting against (which i didn't mention, i guess, though it's not important), i suppose harry -thinks- that draco loves him and even -draco- thinks draco loves him, and yet he doesn't, he's just using harry for... emotional stability and reassurance or whatever.
while i'm sure that's possible (any number of things are, after all, possible), something in me just hates it so much i can't deal.
which makes me think maybe i -should- (the whole open-mindedness thing).
lots of h/d have them together where for the longest time neither admits to being in love. and you know, that's fine.
because there's an open-endedness there. not... a sort of author's intent sort of thing where we -know- how draco feels now and will feel in the future, and he just doesn't have the love -in- him to give, and nothing could be done about it.

although, taken that specifically, it's a very very rare scenario, so there's no rational reason to freak out 'cause basically, no one does write that, really. this last case may be the third time i've ever seen it. fifth at most.

but it's probably my least favorite of all possibilities. you know, that sort of grown-up disillusionment where we realize that baby, sometimes love just ain't enough. siiigh.
basically it's undercutting the fairytale in the most vulnerable spot. the vulnerability isn't in "will they or won't they", it's in the possibility that maybe it -will- happen and it'll turn out to be tinsel and not gold, just like so many other things. and that's probably the scariest thing to allow yourself to believe, if you're invested like i am ^^

hee. oh, and ... i'm burning out on the meta, btw. i surprised myself with my vehemence here, actually, since i'm all about the brian/justin lurve right now. hehehehe >:D but hi anyway >:D

[crimson-stained.livejournal.com]

For me, Draco is always the one who loves Harry the most. To me, Harry is the mean evil bastard who just doesn't understand because of his own prejudices...

But for me, they must be in love. Phases of infatuation just make me sob with frustration.

*hearts your entries*

<3<3<3

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee! yah.
most people (who aren't insane like me, and are still h/d shippers), figure it's draco who's pining after harry and harry who doesn't give a damn (er... at first, anyway). 'cause... that famous h/d question of, "draco's obsessed, but what's harry's excuse?" and stuff.

like, harry needs an -excuse- to love draco. a -reason-. my first, ill-fated epic h/d was going to be called "one good reason"-- as in, one good reason for harry to want/love draco. heh.

but if -draco- doesn't love -harry-, in my head the whole thing just falls apart. and that freaks me out, thinking about it too long.
obviously, i need to a) step -away- from the fanfic... slowly; b) take deep breaths. *laughs*

c) distract myself by watching brian & justin groping each other. theirloveissosweatyyetpure!!11!!1!111!!

[crimson-stained.livejournal.com]

There is no such thing as draco not loving harry.
There is no such thing as draco not loving harry.
There is no such thing as draco not loving harry.
There is no such thing as draco not loving harry.
There is no such thing as draco not loving harry.
There is no such thing as draco not loving harry.

Repeat infinitely to self at night.

Mmm. Brian and Justin.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

heeeeeeeee >:D<
*bounces*
just what i needed >:D
almost sane now ;)

[liasantana.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. I've never thought about scenarios where one of them just doesn't love the other. No, that's not entirely correct, more like, I've tried to ignore and forget about stories where they don't love each other. That's in fanon of course.

But this is exactly why I <3 this pairing so much. Their relationship, no matter how much angst, torture or heartbreak, is supposed to show true love (IMO anyway). The kind of love that we see so rarely in our world today (or maybe that's just the world I'm in) - like you, I need that. I need to believe that such love is possible and does exist. So I guess I've sort of ignored the possibility of them not loving each other.

Gah! I'm sorry if my post didn't make sense, or if I totally missed the point...

Oh by the way, I friended you a while back because I really enjoy reading your posts. You don't have to friend me back, seeing you've already got a sufficient number of friends. But just to let you know so you don't think 'who the hell is this?' when you read this post... :)

Lia

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. yah, although i meant the idea of draco not being in love in particular.
i mean, either of them being -together- but not in love just kills me. it -is- clear that i'm only talking about stories/scenarios where they're already -together- right?
but yah, it's because it's such an ideal, to me. love against all odds. if you take that away, it all just dissipates like smoke and i get all wibbly.

and, thanks ~:D
i did notice you friended me, but it sometimes takes me awhile to friend back. er. usually after i get to know the one who'd friended me ><;;
hee~:)

[liasantana.livejournal.com]

hahaha no problems. You were clear by the way, I'm just not very clear in expressing myself. Yes, that idea of love overcoming all odds. Sometimes I feel that it's a myth, and never really existing in my world. So H/D of course, is my medium to find that 'all illusive utopian idea'...

Am such a sap, will go now and cheer myself up with Oscar Wilde (actually they're not exactly cheery when you close examine it...) or maybe About a Boy...

[thegraybook.livejournal.com]

I have no trouble imagining Harry not loving Draco, or Draco not loving Harry. I have no trouble imagining Draco loving Harry completely and forever, and Harry not caring about him at all. I have slightly more trouble imagining the reverse, but I can imagine a Harry loving Draco more than Draco loves him. I can imagine either of them falling out of love with the other. I can't say it bothers me much, either. What would bother me would be if it wasn't consistent with the previous characterization in a fic, or if it seemed to have been developed solely for the purpose of creating conflict to drive the plot. I suppose I would say I take it on a case by case basis and my problem with the concept would be narrative and not emotional in nature. But then I am not much of an OTP girl. :D

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

What Cassie said. (well, about HP.) *points ruefully to icon*

I found your and darklites' conversation interesting, because it explains the Draco/Anyone but Harry squick others seem to have, as opposed to my Harry/Anyone but Draco squick. Though I think that squick's more to do with the alternatives than the non-Draco-ness. I'm a slasher who hates Snape/Harry and thinks Ron has to be straight, so what am I to do? Even though I like it on its own merits, H/D still has to win almost by default.

But back to the conversation - I hadn't thought before how, since such an integral part of a H/D fic is Draco's quote unquote 'redemption', if he got with a Gryffindor he'd be doing the H/D thing but doing it for somebody else. I can see how that might really get up a H/D shipper's nose.

[darklites.livejournal.com]

I'm intrigued by your Harry/AnyoneButDraco squick -- do you dislike reading Harry in het pairings? Because I don't really read a lot of Harryslash other than H/D either, although I have read the occasional H/S fic...

And I've an RL friend who has the exact same squick as you. We've talked about it a bit and I think it's got something to do with who (H or D) you ultimately... not like more, but... support more? are more intrigued by? It's who comes out even just that *little* bit more on top if you had to choose one of the two. It's who you'd prefer have the upper hand the in the relationship when you read it. Whoever that is, you can handle reading in other ships. The other, not so much, usually. Really, I'm as interested in Draco as I am in Harry, but I suppose in the end, it's more about Harry, if only *slightly*.

In the end, I think your preference says a lot about you and your personality more than anything else, which is quite interesting--yet unsurprising, too, I suppose.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. as usual (that i've noticed), you've got it, i think. at least, it does apply to me, most definitely. i'm only slightly more intrigued by harry's development, but it's there, heh. i'm just a little more... i dunno... indulgent with him. i kind of want to coddle him, somewhat. hee. i'd give him anything he wants. and that is SO not true with draco, who makes me want to be contrary, ahahah.
i think i identify with harry's side more. i would feel more betrayed by draco and more understanding of harry. i've written both harry/ginny and draco/pansy, not because i ship them or want them, but just because you know, they're the default and easy to play with. but i've also written harry/hermione/ron, harry/hermione, harry/cho and harry/ron (er... well, slightly). in a way, draco doesn't work for me as a character without harry. he's like... -for- harry. he exists in my head, -for- harry. heh. without harry, he's just this stupid twit. hee. whom i love anyway~:)

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

Well, as I said, I'm a slasher and het generally bores me, but the prospective het pairings for Harry seem to be much worse than the standard het. Harry/Hermione is just wrong, wrong, wrong to me - I can't see them having a single solitary sexual spark, and for crying out loud, he says in book 4 that he's getting so bored hanging out with her when Ron isn't around!

Harry/Ginny - I don't think I really need to elaborate. Harry/Cho is just as obviously set up to be The Wrong Pairing For Harry.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. there's a part of me that can definitely imagine it, simply because, you know, i can imagine most things. in fact, if/as i try to fight it, my mind helpfully tortures me and -makes- me imagine whatever i try -not- to imagine.
and i do wonder if i should write fic with this scenario simply because it drives me insane. sort of the reason i wrote a fic where harry rapes draco, though that was mostly a failure as far as a writing exercise 'cause i didn't have any -reason-, mostly 'cause i didn't -want- to go there, still.

i guess in the end i just wonder if having an otp is anti-conducive to good writing. hmm. i'm not sure. does it limit my range too severely? does it make my stories predictable (even though it's not like they always live happily ever after or anything). that's what was -really- making me wibble, the idea that i'm a lesser writer because of this mental block, not the idea that draco may not be in love with harry.

on the other hand-- i got -into- writing fanfic -for- h/d. this whole gig was always for h/d. it's not like this is serious literature-- i mean, it's serious, but it's a labor of love. i do it because i love their love-- otherwise i wouldn't write it, most likely.
i mean, i -have- written other pairings, just as a lark. but that's really been casual. i mean, i suppose i should remember that i'm not here to write in the most progressive manner possible as much as simply to enjoy what i'm writing.

and since i wouldn't -enjoy- writing that scenario, why write it? i mean, i -could-, and it would possibly make me a more well-rounded writer, but is that really important in this case? *sigh* i don't know. it's almost like, if i wrote that, it might be the last thing i wrote for them. i'd say goodbye to them and put them to rest, with a last kiss on the cheek before curtains, or something. although that's rather morbid, now -.-