~~ stupid pairing rants. *smacks self*
May. 25th, 2003 05:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkathere are few things lamer than ranting against pairings. i know this. believe me, trust me, understand me, i -know- this. every pairing is like an idea-- it may annoy me, but it is what it is, and it exists and i don't have to pay attention. it usually has a reason for existing-- just like everything else. people like it for a certain reason. usually that reason is some psychological predisposition to romantic fluffiness or kinky darkness or insane absurdity (hello, neville/squid). it's not that i would say, "let's go hug every pairing there is", but certainly, they mean no harm (the ideas themselves). they want to grow, prosper and multiply, like all memes, but it's not as if they're inherently "better" or "worse" than any other comparable idea/pairing. okay then.
that said, harry/lucius is annoying me today.
some part of me is begging the rest of me to get on my high horse and to natter about how obviously whoever ships harry/lucius cares nothing for harry, for what kind of person seriously wants a sixteen-year-old (or so) to be having this (almost certainly temporary) affair with the father of his school arch-rival, a confirmed death eater, a person who's never shown the slightest kind regard towards him and is unlikely to ever start? i mean, seriously, that's really fucked up.
*smirks* yah. it's easy to say, "well, i'm just looking out for harry's well-being, here", but of course it's also easy to see how stupid that statement is. of course, this is the same person who wrote 2 (count 'em! two!) harry/cho fics for the sole reason that i imagine harry would thank me (awww, he has a crush on cho-- why not make him have what he wants? awww, the ickle w00bie, etcetc).
see, what i'm really sometimes apt to rant about in my head isn't a -pairing-, it's my imagined scenario where people pair harry (ickle, lovable harry! hee) with people who just aren't good for him! same for draco. it's like, they don't care about him and are merely satisfying their perverse lust (which you know, pot, kettle, obviously). this is seriously making me sound like a care-bear. this is why i'm rather mocking myself, here. i think it's just that i have a relationship with harry & draco-- partly voyeuristic & perverted, but partly, you know, affectionate. he's like my little fictional adopted brother. although, seriously, that's fucked up, considering all the smut. but the point is, i want him to be happy, and fulfilled, and emotionally healthy. i want him to get his heart's desire, to realize he's lovable and special and all that jazz, but also to break him out of his mental biases and to show him more of the world. i also want draco to well... flower. not be redeemed, just, nurtured more, challenged more.
(this bit of ranting in response to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
dahlia_777's post referencing a h/s fic with lucius/draco as a side pairing.)
has anyone noticed how even in fics that have nothing to do with draco, the writers always feel the need to do something with draco? like, pair him off somehow, with blaise, justin, blah blah, somebody. never even anyone realistic like pansy (like they do r/hr all the time, why not d/p, my -gahd- is it JUST because fanon!draco's hot and thus must be gay?), or anyone really silly and unusual like ron (ahahaah). it just really really annoys me.
i mean, rationally i know it's not in reaction to the idea of h/d (knowing the hegemony that is h/d exists and thus having to respond to it even if by implication), but i think subconsciously maybe it is. i've read enough h/s to know that they never, never, never once do justice to the harry & draco dynamic. it's as if harry & snape overwrite it or something. you know how harry & ron gets pissed on by most h/d fic? well that's the feeling i get with harry & draco and h/s fic. it's like snape somehow takes the place of draco, which he shouldn't since it's only in fanon that draco's with harry. and yet i feel this lingering presence, like a phantom limb, where you can almost -smell- the h/d.
maybe (probably) this is just in my head, but still. i guess i've just had bad experiences. possibly this is because h/s writers simply have a very different view of draco and don't care about him all that much, thinking he's a little twerp that may as well do the gay thing 'cause he's a malfoy (even though lucius is hotter, obviously). i keep getting this feeling like snape-love and draco-love are not all that compatible within most people.
'cause like, snape's the mature, in-control, bitter one, with all the implied complexity of moral ambiguity and all that meanness carved down into a sculptured artform. whereas draco's the opposite, in a way-- immature, premature-ejaculatory, all-bark-no-bite, wannabe big mean slytherin who only manages to look pathetic and crass most of the time. (and yes, i'm well aware this is almost draco/snape-shippy of me, ahahahahahah!!) interestingly, a lot of fanon!draco's try to compensate for this by making draco more like snape-- more in-control, more icy and alluring and mature. ha. what they really want is snape, except aged down.
actually, i myself like both draco & snape as far as personality types, i just don't want them confused, heh. and i don't think snape is shippable with anyone, though sirius, remus & lucius are all possibilities, they lack that certain something (and lucius, the poor man, i wouldn't inflict him on anyone except narcissa 'cause they deserve each other & james 'cause i'm so soppy). i'd ship him with lily but that's just way too tragic for me, thanks.
but yah. you get this sense that the harry/snape writers i've read don't really know what to do with draco, and yet there's this need to do -something- that i don't quite understand (just as i don't see why you have to "do" something with ron, and not just keep the relationship somewhat as is).
i wonder if it has something to do with the possible need to mature harry in order to pair him with snape. there seems to be an inherent need to change the mindset here-- if you keep it as that of the naive, emotionally/physically reticent yet needy boy who -hates- his potions professor, you can't very easily segue into any sort of sexual relationship with said potions professor. you need to basically change harry at least somewhat-- have him grow up, otherwise the power imbalance becomes such that snape is abusing him, basically.
the thing with h/d is that you don't need to change anything-- he could still hate draco, still be reticent and immature and ejaculate prematurely in safety, knowing draco is just the same. (woo!!) they're -boys-. they can fuck even if they hate each other, they can be oblivious as to deeper feelings together (awwwww) and basically, they can mature together as their relationship progresses. but see, harry & snape -can't-, because snape should know better.
anyway.
so harry gets this new sense of aesthetics which suddenly involves greasy potions professors (god, harry sue, how i hate you-- although having harry suddenly adore pale hair and pointy chins annoys me too-- that whole, oh god, you're JUST MY TYPE phenomenon is rather sickening). what to do with draco?
i've seen fics where harry's had a "fling" with malfoy (but malfoy was too immature for him-- *stabstabkillkill*). that's still better than suddenly-mature!harry being above the petty nuisance that is malfoy, and being able to rationally point out to malfoy the error of his ways. then there's the other option of happily-paired-off!malfoy. like, see, see? look, he's happily screwing someone else, isn't that what counts? malfoys are born to screw other men, apparently. plus there's this sense that draco's -a- malfoy. lucius becomes much more prominent because snape brings the older generation into the picture, and lucius is more interesting than draco anyway, -isn't he-?
my overall point is that draco has to be "out of the way", and there's no particular care as to which way he is. i mean, in h/d fics, you don't usually get snape with lucius or snape with sirius or whatever, just to get him "out of the way". he remains the scary mean potions professor (written for better or for worse). but if harry still had the same relationship with draco (taunting, hating, semi-obsessing, ie, what-would-malfoy-think), his new-found insight into slytherins would be compromised somehow, i guess. plus, snape is the -true- object of his hatred and interest.
all of this is understandable of course. ha. though plebey. funny how i didn't mention the incest or anything. 'course, to me it's all secondary to the basic, "but if you're doing it, you should do it for the `right reasons'" argument, which is lame but i can't help it. can draco/lucius even -have- "right reasons"? prolly not. i mean, it's perving no matter how you look at it. which is fine. and the idea of a "right reason" is stupid anyway. but i can't help thinking that the lucius-lust or snape-lust which is so blatantly obvious in say, lucius/whoever or snape/whoever is kind of, unfair treatment of the characters, or something. this extends to harry/draco if you write it 'cause of draco-lust or something. sigh. but none of this holds any water, objectively speaking, i know that. and yet......
disturbingly enough, treat characters -too- well, and you make them sappy and out-of-character and all melted into gooey puddles of over-sweet ichor. yuck! i am never happy, obviously >:D
~~
also,prillalar's response to the latest ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
hp100 challenge kills me. just. KILLS me. ahahahah. oh god. i need to watch the matrix again >:D
that said, harry/lucius is annoying me today.
some part of me is begging the rest of me to get on my high horse and to natter about how obviously whoever ships harry/lucius cares nothing for harry, for what kind of person seriously wants a sixteen-year-old (or so) to be having this (almost certainly temporary) affair with the father of his school arch-rival, a confirmed death eater, a person who's never shown the slightest kind regard towards him and is unlikely to ever start? i mean, seriously, that's really fucked up.
*smirks* yah. it's easy to say, "well, i'm just looking out for harry's well-being, here", but of course it's also easy to see how stupid that statement is. of course, this is the same person who wrote 2 (count 'em! two!) harry/cho fics for the sole reason that i imagine harry would thank me (awww, he has a crush on cho-- why not make him have what he wants? awww, the ickle w00bie, etcetc).
see, what i'm really sometimes apt to rant about in my head isn't a -pairing-, it's my imagined scenario where people pair harry (ickle, lovable harry! hee) with people who just aren't good for him! same for draco. it's like, they don't care about him and are merely satisfying their perverse lust (which you know, pot, kettle, obviously). this is seriously making me sound like a care-bear. this is why i'm rather mocking myself, here. i think it's just that i have a relationship with harry & draco-- partly voyeuristic & perverted, but partly, you know, affectionate. he's like my little fictional adopted brother. although, seriously, that's fucked up, considering all the smut. but the point is, i want him to be happy, and fulfilled, and emotionally healthy. i want him to get his heart's desire, to realize he's lovable and special and all that jazz, but also to break him out of his mental biases and to show him more of the world. i also want draco to well... flower. not be redeemed, just, nurtured more, challenged more.
(this bit of ranting in response to
dahlia_777's post referencing a h/s fic with lucius/draco as a side pairing.)has anyone noticed how even in fics that have nothing to do with draco, the writers always feel the need to do something with draco? like, pair him off somehow, with blaise, justin, blah blah, somebody. never even anyone realistic like pansy (like they do r/hr all the time, why not d/p, my -gahd- is it JUST because fanon!draco's hot and thus must be gay?), or anyone really silly and unusual like ron (ahahaah). it just really really annoys me.
i mean, rationally i know it's not in reaction to the idea of h/d (knowing the hegemony that is h/d exists and thus having to respond to it even if by implication), but i think subconsciously maybe it is. i've read enough h/s to know that they never, never, never once do justice to the harry & draco dynamic. it's as if harry & snape overwrite it or something. you know how harry & ron gets pissed on by most h/d fic? well that's the feeling i get with harry & draco and h/s fic. it's like snape somehow takes the place of draco, which he shouldn't since it's only in fanon that draco's with harry. and yet i feel this lingering presence, like a phantom limb, where you can almost -smell- the h/d.
maybe (probably) this is just in my head, but still. i guess i've just had bad experiences. possibly this is because h/s writers simply have a very different view of draco and don't care about him all that much, thinking he's a little twerp that may as well do the gay thing 'cause he's a malfoy (even though lucius is hotter, obviously). i keep getting this feeling like snape-love and draco-love are not all that compatible within most people.
'cause like, snape's the mature, in-control, bitter one, with all the implied complexity of moral ambiguity and all that meanness carved down into a sculptured artform. whereas draco's the opposite, in a way-- immature, premature-ejaculatory, all-bark-no-bite, wannabe big mean slytherin who only manages to look pathetic and crass most of the time. (and yes, i'm well aware this is almost draco/snape-shippy of me, ahahahahahah!!) interestingly, a lot of fanon!draco's try to compensate for this by making draco more like snape-- more in-control, more icy and alluring and mature. ha. what they really want is snape, except aged down.
actually, i myself like both draco & snape as far as personality types, i just don't want them confused, heh. and i don't think snape is shippable with anyone, though sirius, remus & lucius are all possibilities, they lack that certain something (and lucius, the poor man, i wouldn't inflict him on anyone except narcissa 'cause they deserve each other & james 'cause i'm so soppy). i'd ship him with lily but that's just way too tragic for me, thanks.
but yah. you get this sense that the harry/snape writers i've read don't really know what to do with draco, and yet there's this need to do -something- that i don't quite understand (just as i don't see why you have to "do" something with ron, and not just keep the relationship somewhat as is).
i wonder if it has something to do with the possible need to mature harry in order to pair him with snape. there seems to be an inherent need to change the mindset here-- if you keep it as that of the naive, emotionally/physically reticent yet needy boy who -hates- his potions professor, you can't very easily segue into any sort of sexual relationship with said potions professor. you need to basically change harry at least somewhat-- have him grow up, otherwise the power imbalance becomes such that snape is abusing him, basically.
the thing with h/d is that you don't need to change anything-- he could still hate draco, still be reticent and immature and ejaculate prematurely in safety, knowing draco is just the same. (woo!!) they're -boys-. they can fuck even if they hate each other, they can be oblivious as to deeper feelings together (awwwww) and basically, they can mature together as their relationship progresses. but see, harry & snape -can't-, because snape should know better.
anyway.
so harry gets this new sense of aesthetics which suddenly involves greasy potions professors (god, harry sue, how i hate you-- although having harry suddenly adore pale hair and pointy chins annoys me too-- that whole, oh god, you're JUST MY TYPE phenomenon is rather sickening). what to do with draco?
i've seen fics where harry's had a "fling" with malfoy (but malfoy was too immature for him-- *stabstabkillkill*). that's still better than suddenly-mature!harry being above the petty nuisance that is malfoy, and being able to rationally point out to malfoy the error of his ways. then there's the other option of happily-paired-off!malfoy. like, see, see? look, he's happily screwing someone else, isn't that what counts? malfoys are born to screw other men, apparently. plus there's this sense that draco's -a- malfoy. lucius becomes much more prominent because snape brings the older generation into the picture, and lucius is more interesting than draco anyway, -isn't he-?
my overall point is that draco has to be "out of the way", and there's no particular care as to which way he is. i mean, in h/d fics, you don't usually get snape with lucius or snape with sirius or whatever, just to get him "out of the way". he remains the scary mean potions professor (written for better or for worse). but if harry still had the same relationship with draco (taunting, hating, semi-obsessing, ie, what-would-malfoy-think), his new-found insight into slytherins would be compromised somehow, i guess. plus, snape is the -true- object of his hatred and interest.
all of this is understandable of course. ha. though plebey. funny how i didn't mention the incest or anything. 'course, to me it's all secondary to the basic, "but if you're doing it, you should do it for the `right reasons'" argument, which is lame but i can't help it. can draco/lucius even -have- "right reasons"? prolly not. i mean, it's perving no matter how you look at it. which is fine. and the idea of a "right reason" is stupid anyway. but i can't help thinking that the lucius-lust or snape-lust which is so blatantly obvious in say, lucius/whoever or snape/whoever is kind of, unfair treatment of the characters, or something. this extends to harry/draco if you write it 'cause of draco-lust or something. sigh. but none of this holds any water, objectively speaking, i know that. and yet......
disturbingly enough, treat characters -too- well, and you make them sappy and out-of-character and all melted into gooey puddles of over-sweet ichor. yuck! i am never happy, obviously >:D
~~
also,
prillalar's response to the latest hp100 challenge kills me. just. KILLS me. ahahahah. oh god. i need to watch the matrix again >:D
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 03:45 pm (UTC)and, ahahahah! draco-as-krycek!! that KILLS me!
i can actually -see- what you mean about gay!krycek and GODDAMN IT i'm all pervertified now since honestly, i've never thought about it before. *weeps*
i am the -last-, last, last thing from a krycek/mulder shipper 'cause, you know, mulder/scully!! OTP!! ahem. but. yah.
draco is definitely ...er... that sort. except i still think draco/pansy makes sense 'cause even if he IS, i doubt he'd be obvious about it, and more likely repressed. they're 15/16! i'm sure he's having major issues and angst. he maybe gay-as-a-pink-elephant, but if he was openly so, he'd lose major clout in slytherin. probably, anyway -.-
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 04:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 04:39 pm (UTC)I WAS NOT PUSHING DRACO/PANSY I WASN'T I REALLY WASN'T !!11!1!!!1!
*DENIAL*!!11!1
*laughs*
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 05:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 05:59 pm (UTC)it is not growing! it is SPREADING!!
and no. it's just. all in the name of realism. realism, i tell you!!
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 10:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 10:35 pm (UTC)and waaah. must not go online! must...! write...! fic...! for...! k.!
hee. am bad, bad, procrastinator person.
oh god it's 1:30 already. i'm not writing this fic, am i. I SUCK SO MUCH ><;;
and it's 4 days too late already!!!
and, the reason the everyone ignores pansy's angst is 'cause no one really cares about pansy since she doesn't really have that much of a personality in canon, does she. muwahahahah.
plus, it's het, man. het. you're in the wrong corner. why do you hang out with slashers, you het-loving weirdo? ahaha. you'll wait for a long time for the true like of d/p to come to pass.
although one-sided d/p makes a lot of sense to me 'cause i'm all about the pansy!angst. when i stop being all about the h/d!smut. which, lemme tell you, is NOT OFTEN. ahahaha. ahem.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 11:17 pm (UTC)And no she doesn't have a personality. But neither do a lot of the charas people write fic with. You can have fun that way and not be called on being uncanon. I love pansy!angst. Mm.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 06:51 pm (UTC)*ahem* Got stuck in the past there.
Yeah, I agree that Draco/Pansy makes sense -- it's just not very titillating. But angsting-closeted!Draco/Pansy might be. Hmm.
And now I'm all interested in the Harry/Snape + Draco-Snape dynamic. But I'm damned if I'm going to write Harry/Snape just to work it out.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 07:10 pm (UTC)i'm so narrow-minded, i guess. usually, i dig the main characters and that's it. the only major series i can think of where i seriously dig the non-major characters would be buffy. (ANDREW!! JONATHAN!! even willow). i guess you could say draco counts, but. i mean, they'd have to be paired with a major character, usually. for me to care.
i'm like the -anti- random-shipper person. i dunno what that says about me. that i'm staid and boring? heh. -.-
i wonder if h/s affecting the draco+snape relationship means it'd also have to affect the harry+draco relationship. hmmmm. i mean, by this logic, yah, kind of. like, harry being with snape and snape having a relationship to draco, would have to affect the harry&draco dynamic. but how? hmmm. would draco tease him less? differently? would a new light come into his eyes?
there's really only one fic that deals with this that i can think of, and it's really lame 'cause its draco is in love with snape and then he kills himself 'cause he can't stand harry & snape together. there isn't any major interaction between harry & draco though i think the antagonism goes away. somehow. and by the end harry feels sorry for him. hee. though strangely, this doesn't mean i wanna see a double-pairing h/s & h/d fic. 'cause i mean, like -that's- ever gonna happen. that's beyond slash and into "alternate universe where no laws of reason & logic apply". plus, a harry that'd go for snape wouldn't go for draco, and vice versa. sad (or not-so-sad) but true. sigh. i'm so stubborn in that i always have to secretly write my otp even when thinking of writing something else. like, even if i never mention it, it has to be there in my head as the secret truth to come.
which is why closeted!d/p makes such perfect sense to me. the one d/p i wrote (http://www2.expecto-patronum.net/reenka/_hardon.html) so far was like that. though, you know, it was mostly smut >:D
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 08:15 pm (UTC)When I get into a show, normally I like it *in spite of* the main character, rather than because of him/her. (Millennium being the massive exception here.) I never really liked Mulder (though I loved Scully). I don't really like Buffy all that much. I don't like Angel. Ally irked me.
I tend to get attached to minor characters. *Very* attached. And I have, or used to have, anyhow, a reputation for pairing them off in weird ways. One of the things I like about HP is there's lots of scope to mix and match.
So, now I'm thinking Snape should get some play in H/D. That would be interesting. But first, you'd have to work out what the Snape-Draco relationship really was.
But I could see Snape talking seriously to Draco, trying to dissuade him. And becoming suspicious.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-25 08:29 pm (UTC)hee.
and the whole "disapproving snape" thing is actually a cliche in h/d fics, btw. he's always threatening harry and being protective of draco and telling draco that he should know better and so on. all that quasi-fatherly stuff with a large dose of potter-hatred. he usually directs it at harry, 'cause draco is usually hard to budge and harry actually cares about things other than what he wants-- ie, draco's larger well-being, and snape uses that.
even in h&d friendship fics like `draco veritas', you have snape trying to break them apart and caution draco and act suspicious and distrustful towards harry. hee.