~~justify my love.
Jan. 17th, 2003 08:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaseeing ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
holographis ask how does one justify harry & draco falling in love, considering harry doesn't care what draco does as long as he stays out of his way, and have them remain in character, i realized.... well. i do, a lot of the time, talk about archetypes and yin and yang and the possibilities of transformative passion and needing your shadow and needing someone who will see you unsentimentally and the way one loves the wrong people, and the way the wrong thing can be the right thing... and so on.
but when it comes to actually -writing- a "how harry & draco got together" story, i'm equally stuck. i mean, i've read a really large number of them now. and i daresay i believe in them as much as is sane and maybe moreso. still, i come across the same problem. they resist it. they don't want to. i'm so aware of pitfalls and cliches, and so aware that if i cheat-- ie, use a potion or some sort of cataclysmic event, or a war, or something-- i'd be cheating and pretending i'm getting them together, just draco and harry, whereas i wouldn't be, really.
it's just funny, isn't it? that i think i really believe in them, but i can't write it. does that mean i don't -really- believe? something's missing then, isn't it.
of course, i hobble myself, with all the caveats. it has to be in hogwarts. they have to not be forced by magic or circumstance. i think a part of me even has "harry has to -like- draco" as a sort of auxiliary point that would be good. because of the whole, if they're not at all friends, i would be writing a doomed romance, and i refuse to write a doomed romance about them.
i can write really passionate essays, and do, every time the "why harry/draco" question gets even remotely mentioned, but... when it comes to -imagining- it, i feel impotent. it's weird. i'm in awe of the writers whose mind could wrap around this and actually -do- it. it's like, a feat, really. most of them don't attempt it, so i don't feel -too- bad. mostly, people are satisfied with sudden onset of lust scenarios, with "draco joins the good guys" and "draco is sad and harry thinks, wait, draco isn't evil" and with "harry is desperate for some darkness because he's become disillusioned with light". all of this is good and i enjoy reading it, but i can't write it-- i mean, i can... but what would be the point?
every harry/draco story -has-, has, -has- to have the one cliche of "draco does something that isn't annoying and/or offensive to harry". every single one i can think of has that. except for the ones where it -doesn't- happen, and draco just dominates harry's will somehow-- blackmail, lust, it's all the same. my favorite stories kind of make it subtle, so that it's not -why- they're together, it's just... one reason. like in `love under will', you can hardly blame everything on the rose. though without the rose none of it would've happened, you can't really equate the origin of harry & draco with a rose. this is what makes it a good fic, i think.
but anyway. it bothers me that i can't write it, really. but as obsessed as i always was with romance, i was never really all that good/successful at being a romance writer. not enough experience with other people and psychology and such. and love. just books and stuff. i usually write about failed love, far-away love, wished-for love, remembered love, and so on. i dance around it, because to touch it would be like trying to touch the flame. i didn't feel ready.
i'm getting closer. maybe. i dunno. it's been half a year and i'm "almost there", i can almost write a "how they got together" story. it's a challenge, though. i mean-- i have to craft reality to suit my dreams, even fictional reality. i have to convince -myself- first of all, and i'm a tough critic (of myself).
sometimes i think that justification is the wrong angle to look at it, but i can't help myself. it's so central to my philosophy. i can't help using my stories as outlets for my philosophy, really. i was thinking that `the rose' is a great song to base a love-story on. harry/draco or any other. i really do think that this ideal of love is worth it, even as hard as it is to capture-- and because it's so hard to capture, and make believable. it's writing about the triumph of the human spirit, really. so i guess even if it takes me years, i can be happy if i finally did achieve a portrait of that.
holographis ask how does one justify harry & draco falling in love, considering harry doesn't care what draco does as long as he stays out of his way, and have them remain in character, i realized.... well. i do, a lot of the time, talk about archetypes and yin and yang and the possibilities of transformative passion and needing your shadow and needing someone who will see you unsentimentally and the way one loves the wrong people, and the way the wrong thing can be the right thing... and so on.but when it comes to actually -writing- a "how harry & draco got together" story, i'm equally stuck. i mean, i've read a really large number of them now. and i daresay i believe in them as much as is sane and maybe moreso. still, i come across the same problem. they resist it. they don't want to. i'm so aware of pitfalls and cliches, and so aware that if i cheat-- ie, use a potion or some sort of cataclysmic event, or a war, or something-- i'd be cheating and pretending i'm getting them together, just draco and harry, whereas i wouldn't be, really.
it's just funny, isn't it? that i think i really believe in them, but i can't write it. does that mean i don't -really- believe? something's missing then, isn't it.
of course, i hobble myself, with all the caveats. it has to be in hogwarts. they have to not be forced by magic or circumstance. i think a part of me even has "harry has to -like- draco" as a sort of auxiliary point that would be good. because of the whole, if they're not at all friends, i would be writing a doomed romance, and i refuse to write a doomed romance about them.
i can write really passionate essays, and do, every time the "why harry/draco" question gets even remotely mentioned, but... when it comes to -imagining- it, i feel impotent. it's weird. i'm in awe of the writers whose mind could wrap around this and actually -do- it. it's like, a feat, really. most of them don't attempt it, so i don't feel -too- bad. mostly, people are satisfied with sudden onset of lust scenarios, with "draco joins the good guys" and "draco is sad and harry thinks, wait, draco isn't evil" and with "harry is desperate for some darkness because he's become disillusioned with light". all of this is good and i enjoy reading it, but i can't write it-- i mean, i can... but what would be the point?
every harry/draco story -has-, has, -has- to have the one cliche of "draco does something that isn't annoying and/or offensive to harry". every single one i can think of has that. except for the ones where it -doesn't- happen, and draco just dominates harry's will somehow-- blackmail, lust, it's all the same. my favorite stories kind of make it subtle, so that it's not -why- they're together, it's just... one reason. like in `love under will', you can hardly blame everything on the rose. though without the rose none of it would've happened, you can't really equate the origin of harry & draco with a rose. this is what makes it a good fic, i think.
but anyway. it bothers me that i can't write it, really. but as obsessed as i always was with romance, i was never really all that good/successful at being a romance writer. not enough experience with other people and psychology and such. and love. just books and stuff. i usually write about failed love, far-away love, wished-for love, remembered love, and so on. i dance around it, because to touch it would be like trying to touch the flame. i didn't feel ready.
i'm getting closer. maybe. i dunno. it's been half a year and i'm "almost there", i can almost write a "how they got together" story. it's a challenge, though. i mean-- i have to craft reality to suit my dreams, even fictional reality. i have to convince -myself- first of all, and i'm a tough critic (of myself).
sometimes i think that justification is the wrong angle to look at it, but i can't help myself. it's so central to my philosophy. i can't help using my stories as outlets for my philosophy, really. i was thinking that `the rose' is a great song to base a love-story on. harry/draco or any other. i really do think that this ideal of love is worth it, even as hard as it is to capture-- and because it's so hard to capture, and make believable. it's writing about the triumph of the human spirit, really. so i guess even if it takes me years, i can be happy if i finally did achieve a portrait of that.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-01-17 06:21 pm (UTC)The other thing is... teenage boys. TEENAGE boys. Teenage BOYS. I mean, c'mon. I ignore it most of the time, just to enjoy the fics, but that really trips me up. I don't think two polarized human beings can do the sort of yin-yang switch without the benefit of maturity, experience, and self-knowledge. Sometimes not even with that.
The best H/D 'justifications' for me are when they're both mature... either with years or through war... and let's face it, canon Draco is miles away from that stage. The Lodger (http://www.snitchfiction.net/cgi-bin/stories/story.cgi?id=1476) by Mad Martha is one way to do it, IMO.
no subject
Date: 2003-01-25 07:43 pm (UTC)but. futurefic is too much of a cheat, for me. it loses some essential "flavor" and challenge of h/d for me (and also, am v. attached to boarding-school luurve and schoolboy crushing and ... stuff).
`the lodger' was a good fic, and everyone recs is and likes it, it seems, but it didn't carry an emotional punch with me.
it was well-argued but not intense enough for an h/d fic for me to -really- get behind it.
they were being too mature. meh. reminded me of `jane eyre'. not that i don't like that book~:) too neat and tidy.
i mean, i read h/d for the angst, snark, anger, sex, and...well... um. star-crossed impossible love-that's-meant-to-be stuff~:)
hee~:)
~reena
no subject
Date: 2003-01-17 06:35 pm (UTC)When I wrote "Butter and Pigtails", I remember telling V that I probably would never write them again. That was it. I'd written Legend and B&P -- done the impossible (make a pairing that didn't seem realistic kind of work in my head) -- and that was that.
but then... right when I was finishing the story... it hit me how completely obvious it all was. I mean, see. Draco is completely fixated on Harry, and Harry's not as fixated... but. I would never ever say that "harry doesn't care what draco does as long as he stays out of his way".
Harry jumps to all sorts of conclusions about Draco in Chamber Of Secrets, and they concoct this elaborate scheme to spy on him... when he actually hadn't been doing *anything*. And Harry's always looking over to see Draco's reaction on everything -- it's a constant reference in the books.
Yes, Draco often is the one to approach Harry, and we hear Lucius complain that Draco goes on and on about him... But Harry doesn't walk around oblivious. I'd say that Draco's on his mind a decent amount of the time.
for instance...
'Malfoy knows,' [Harry] said abruptly. 'Remember what he said to me in Potions? If it was me, I'd hunt him down myself... I'd want revenge."
'You're going to take Malfoy's advice instead of ours?' said Ron furiously."
-
"'...There's an order form at the back of Which Broomstick... you could get a Nimbus Two Thousand And One, like Malfoy's got.' [said Oliver]
'I'm not buying anything Malfoy thinks is good,' said Harry flatly."
Harry actually DREAMS about Draco in canon --
"...Then he dreamed that Malfoy and the rest of the Slytherin team arrived for the match riding dragons. He was flying breakneck speed, trying to avoid a spurt of flames from Malfoy's steed's mouth, when he realized he had forgotten his Firebolt."
And the whole "antagonist relationship turns into love" device isn't that uncommon in literature/film/television. You see it ALL the time in romantic comedies, and look at Cordelia/Xander and Buffy/Spike on Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Two people who hated each other's guts, tormenting each other... ending out passionately kissing in dark places.
no subject
Date: 2003-01-17 06:48 pm (UTC)"[Ron, Hermione, and Harry] sat by the hour eating anything they could spear on a toasting fork - bread, English muffins, marshmellows - and plotting ways of getting Malfoy expelled, which were fun to talk about even if they wouldn't work."
- The Mirror of Erised, The Philosopher's Stone
"Harry, still cheering, nudged Ron in the ribs and pointed at Malfoy, who couldn't have looked more stunned and horrified if he'd just had the Body Bind Curse put on him."
- The Man With Two Faces, Philosopher's Stone
no subject
Date: 2003-01-17 08:05 pm (UTC)There was an explosion of cheering. Harry looked over at the
Slytherin table and wasn't at all surprised to see that Draco Malfoy
hadn't joined in.
and dude, Harry not wanting to be humiliated in front of Draco = sooooo cute!
"What's going on here?" came the cold, drawling voice of Draco
Malfoy. Harry started stuffing everything feverishly into his ripped
bag, desperate to get away before Malfoy could hear his musical
valentine.
and...
"Harry!" said Percy loudly. "No magic in the corridors. I'll have to
report this, you know!"
But Harry didn't care, he was one-up on Malfoy, and that was worth
five points from Gryffindor any day. Malfoy was looking furious, and
as Ginny passed him to enter her classroom, he yelled spitefully after
her, "I don't think Potter liked your valentine much!"
Draco = a bit jealous of Ginny/other rivals for Harry's attention. bwah!
"Bet you loved that, didn't you, Potter?" said a voice Harry had no
trouble recognizing. He straightened up and found himself face-to-face
with Draco Malfoy, who was wearing his usual sneer.
"Famous Harry Potter," said Malfoy. "Can't even go into a bookshop
without making the front page."
"Leave him alone, he didn't want all that!" said Ginny. It was the first
time she had spoken in front of Harry. She was glaring at Malfoy.
"Potter, you've got yourself a girlfriend!" drawled Malfoy. Ginny went
scarlet as Ron and Hermione fought their way over, both clutching
stacks of Lockhart's books.
"Oh, get out of the way, Percy," said Fred. "Harry's in a hurry."
"Yeah, he's off to the Chamber of Secrets for a cup of tea with his
fanged servant," said George, chortling...
...Harry didn't mind; it made him feel better that Fred and George, at
least, thought the idea of his being Slytherin's heir was quite ludicrous.
But their antics seemed to be aggravating Draco Malfoy, who looked
increasingly sour each time he saw them at it.
no subject
Date: 2003-01-18 07:59 am (UTC)2) *smiles brightly* silvia has just picked out all the parts my books embarrassingly fall open at.
Bah, this one is easy.
Date: 2004-08-08 03:33 pm (UTC)Draco: Can't perfect Potter stand being reduced to peasant’s work?
Harry: Shut up.
Draco: Does he miss his hoard of admirers?
Harry: Shut up.
Draco: No one to Oooh and Aaah over his deformities?
Harry: Shut up.
Draco: Or maybe he’s just scared of the dark?
Harry: Shut up.
*Suddenly, a massive figure approaches. Draco immediately dissolves into a frightened puddle of quivering goo and hides behind Harry.*
Harry: Hold still. It’s a CGI dinosaur. It’s sight is based on movement.
*Draco is shaking so hard that Harry has to hold him tight to keep him still. The CGI dinosaur sniffs around for a bit, then wanders off. Harry releases Draco, who collapses in a terrified heap against his chest.*
Harry: Okay, we’re safe. *pause* Malfoy, what the hell is that?
Draco: *still shaken* What is what?
Harry: You’re hard.
Draco: What?! I am not!
Harry: Dude, you totally are. *runs his hand up Draco’s length, which has been poking into him, to demonstrate.*
Draco: Quit flattering yourself, Potter!
Harry: So, all this hostility toward me is really just repressed lust?
Draco: Shut up.
Harry: No wonder you sit and stare at me all the time.
Draco: Shut up.
Harry: And this explains your jealousy toward Ron.
Draco: Shut up.
Harry: Not to mention your need to always impress me.
Draco: Shut up.
Harry: I’m going to kiss you now.
Draco: *snarls* Don’t you dare, Potter!
*Potter dares. He backs Draco into a tree and pins him there. Then he bends his head down, forces open Draco’s lips, and slips his tongue inside. After a few moments he lifts his head back up and smiles.*
Draco: *sighs, resigned* I really fucking hate you, Potter.
Harry: Mmm.
*Harry bends his head to kiss Draco again, and this time Draco kisses back.*
Fin.
See? It practically writes itself.
Re: Bah, this one is easy.
Date: 2004-08-08 03:36 pm (UTC)oh man ^^;;;
Re: Bah, this one is easy.
Date: 2004-08-08 03:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-01-25 08:17 pm (UTC)i mean, -yes- it always made -sense-, but it's so hard to -communicate- that sense for some reason, without turning all... stupid and schmoopy or over-the-top or violent. i don't think either of them are necessarily violent, now that i think of it.
i would think, maybe, that draco would -avoid- violence if he could. like... i don't think he'd want to be a part of it unless he knew it was safe and he was going to win.
hmm. grr. no 100% way to -know- what it'd turn out like if they had a one-on-one confrontation. sigh.
like. i can't just project it, like with harry coming out to ron. i just have no clue.
what would canon!harry & canon!draco be like, locked in a room, without wands?
would they fight? would they be silent? (well, probably not, but)...
i mean, i -want- it to be like rube's `sweetness', but i dunno...
hmm. but yes. i think harry is too often fanonized into being the oblivious one, maybe because it makes it more cliche and draco can then obsess & pine after him more, i dunno.
but that doesn't make sense because we wouldn't even -hear- much about draco (even as little as we do get him characterized) if he wasn't on harry's mind, heh.
i mean, i think the people that mean nothing to him, we don't even -know- about. or, they're blaise.
*is reassured*~:)
no subject
Date: 2003-01-17 06:39 pm (UTC)Hehe...that's the exact argument R/Ders use to 'debunk' the H/D pairing (we get a lot of 'that was nice but it would have been better if it was H/D' in our reviews). Surprisingly, I don't usually buy into it too much. I realize usually Harry's interested in Draco only so far as Draco forces him to be, with his actions and whatnot (really, Draco controls a great deal of their interaction I think). But I find it hard to assume Harry's total indifference otherwise.
I usually go by the first time principle...Harry shares a bunch of firsts with Draco...the first meeting, the first detention...there were others that I wrote down in a notebook somewhere but I can't remember...but the point is that Draco does provide something more than just the occasional bit of trouble...he's an information source and a case study, and I think Harry seems the type that would keep an eye on him and secretly ponder Malfoy's existence or whatever. I think Harry would be curious. If not so much now, then at least in the future. And that is something to build on, along with Malfoy's forwardness, again, his control of the interaction...something could develop in a rather natural way. And I realize that I don't have a point. I swear I should not comment on your journal...I end up rambling away about nothing. Eep...sorry! *facepalms*
no subject
Date: 2003-01-25 07:45 pm (UTC)guh. the mental -images-. *runs away*
but. red and white go well together. as far as y'know, -hair- :D
i definitely make -my- harry secretly ponder malfoy's existence. but, maybe that's too ponderous for harry (does he ponder? i dunno)
mostly, i think they're mutually obsessed.
ahahaha
and i'm sticking to that, too >:D