~~let me to the marriage of true minds....
Aug. 9th, 2002 04:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaso... i was wondering. well i don't really have an answer to this that i like, so i was wondering rather than spewing (in my head, anyway, heh). why do (fanfic) writers write characters as ooc (assuming they're not completely ignorant)? is there, in fact, a need for "realism"? what does realism mean, when you're talking about character development, necessarily? why is it important? (gahd, i sound like i'm making assignments for a freshman essay....)
why do (otherwise respectable, good) writers discard the need for realism in the name of those ever-confusing things, called `pairings'? what makes a realistic pairing, and who gets to decide? on the other hand, does anyone actually seriously think draco/ginny makes any sense in any galaxy whatsoever? (ok so i fess up, that's what inspired all this.) yah, one tiny look at `draco veritas', and i'm boggled by the inevitable idea that the "love" being mentioned is between draco and ginny. which, in a lesser story, would just make me snort and point. but... here... i'm just confused.
there is of course, such a thing as an "unhealthy" couple, or a doomed couple, or a casual couple. not everything needs to be perfect and meant-to-be. granted. but if you love the character, and it's a major character, why stick them with these doozies for mates? of course this opens a whole can of worms about, why are we mean and flippant about the characters that mean so much to us as writers. i suppose we're `mean' and flippant because that's just how we are, as humans. we can't take anything with total sincerity, especially the things that mean the world to us, 24/7. (but does it excuse us? if my ex is mean and flippant to me, do i say, but well, he's human? yeah but i still wanna kick his ass across the country.)
so i'll give everyone (that i admire, otherwise) the benefit of the doubt and say, probably they don't mean that draco and ginny (say), are "meant to be together". or draco and neville for example (*hinthint*,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
luciusmalfoy, heh). of course, if someone -does- think draco/neville are meant to be, i rest my case and refuse to argue (obviously it'd be hopeless, heh). of course, "meant to be" is just silly romantic fluff anyway. right?
yeah....
in books/movies/tv, characters are thrown together rather cruelly and randomly, in long-running things especially, aren't they? and we don't complain -too- much. we just wait it out, mostly. sorta like, in hp canon, even, is jkr really implying that harry/cho are "meant to be"? well, probably not....
just because we've written something doesn't mean we think the universe is meant to work this way, and we're devoted to this perfect ideal we've created. far from it, right. well, blah, this should be 'obvious', especially as regards to "squick" stories and "horror" & "torture" stories, etc etc.
personally, i don't `do' horror/torture/squick/etc within my own writing, and i don't seek it out to read/watch. i have an intrinsic need for Meaning & Beauty, so even if i'm going to like a horror tale, it's gonna have those. (say, Hellraiser. heeeyyy... it had meaning... sorta... *pouts*)
yah. so i'd like input, actually.
why do you guys (er...well... i believe `you' exist now... progress, eh?) write the pairings you do? i mean, i'm sure you can say, "no reason", or "i'm flippant that way"... but you know, er... besides that.
and if someone can explain their deep devotion (if such a thing exists) to draco/ginny to me... i don't know... i might be grateful, or traumatized for life, i'm not sure, heh. personally, i'm wary of giving all this importance to minor characters-- because they turn into, basically, original characters. which slightly bothers me, as far as 'shipping goes. i dunno why. sorta, it's not 'shipping if you just make up the characters. um. i dunno if you can 'ship within your own storyline, exactly, y'know? and from what i know of ginny, she's just harry's fangirl and token weasley sister, no? where's the possibility of her being all that Special coming from, really, in canon anyway? of course, you can argue -draco- isn't all that "special", in canon. oh well. yah so it's all moot isn't it. well, i knew that. i just like to ramble :) still, though. i like my romances to have that spark. tension. compatibilities mixing and smouldering against -incompatibilities-. angst! woo! plus y'know. "a marriage of true minds", etc., power/intelligence equality also. i'm so, so picky. *deep sigh*. maybe i just need to lighten up ~:)
``ok um, i guess i feel silly now. well...mostly because the brunt of my argument rests with something as relative and silly (well, to rational people) as "rightness". juvenile of me, i guess ~:) it's sort of like, i never got over the "princess bride" model of romance, heh. *hides*
it all seems to come from a tendency to want stories to be, ultimately, fairy tales, or at least strongly archetypal, plus identifying with characters (especially if i like them). so that whole shtick about realism is, in hindsight, kind of funny actually (because in the end all i can say is what seems realistic to -me-).
it's true you can make anything be realistic if you try. so yah. maybe i'm on my way to being totally laissez-faire about who's with whom doing what :>
hey it could happen...
sometimes i can't bear to read things, even if they're amazingly good, just because they say things i don't want to hear. well i'm sure i'm not alone in that, probably. ok, definitely.
so, yeah. i mean, i sort of kind of was thinking that there's a sort of "reality" outside of a particular fic, that the "group" of readers/writers created. when it comes to fanfic. but definitely, every time a writer uses a character, that's what they're doing-- using, making them over in their own image. so it's all perfectly understandable. i, certainly, do that, pretty straightforwardly even.
in my own mind, draco & harry & any character i remember well from a story, exist outside of that, or any other, story. that sounds weird, but... it's that whole gestalt thing. the whole greater than the sum of its parts? i dunno.
but as much as that seems true, most definitely, the greatest life these characters have would be in every reader's own head. where they kind of merge with you, the reader, become part of you. so if suddenly this part of you does things you'd never do, you feel a bit out of sorts. or at least that's my latest theory :>
but thanks. i do think i get it (better) now.
though i still don't know if anyone can be happy with anyone else. i swear to god, i know people who'd kill each other in 2 days and nothing on earth would motivate them to work at it enough. heh. actually, most people manage to kill each other slowly, over say, 20 years, instead. definitely, there's something that runs out of steam with some couples-- people change, skin wrinkles, sometimes people decide they're suddenly gay. i dunno :) a lot can happen :>
that doesn't mean that "meant-to-be" really exists. i think when i think that, i think in terms of pure Story, pure archetype. actual people are way too complex, probably, to fit together 100%. there seem to be degrees of "rightness", as far as one's own emotional resonances go, even in relation to fictional characters. some scenarios just make one-- happy-- hopeful-- amazed-- content-- transformed, even, and others just kind of make one feel cynical & even pained. but this is purely subjective of course, as is everything to do with couplehood, i guess.
um, sorry for rambling (again!)
this helped, though. i dunno if i can now sally forth and read scary dystopian (to me) stories, but i think i woke up a little and realized how silly this whole 'shipping business really is :>
in real life too, i guess. *sniff*
~reena, who never lets herself get away with soppiness much as she wants to."
P.S. ~~oh my goodness... this... *trails off*...
``Everything, I think, is an elaborate sarcophagus for the shadows, the dry matte ebon prints fringed with moonshine that rest in vampire sleep on walls and ceilings and floors."
*swoons* it tastes like hazelnut chocolate filling, rich and smokey and delicious. *drugged grin*
P.P.S. ~~``You know, Harry, I never knew you had an ass."
*looks again* erm. *wanders off, disturbed, yet smirking*
why do (otherwise respectable, good) writers discard the need for realism in the name of those ever-confusing things, called `pairings'? what makes a realistic pairing, and who gets to decide? on the other hand, does anyone actually seriously think draco/ginny makes any sense in any galaxy whatsoever? (ok so i fess up, that's what inspired all this.) yah, one tiny look at `draco veritas', and i'm boggled by the inevitable idea that the "love" being mentioned is between draco and ginny. which, in a lesser story, would just make me snort and point. but... here... i'm just confused.
there is of course, such a thing as an "unhealthy" couple, or a doomed couple, or a casual couple. not everything needs to be perfect and meant-to-be. granted. but if you love the character, and it's a major character, why stick them with these doozies for mates? of course this opens a whole can of worms about, why are we mean and flippant about the characters that mean so much to us as writers. i suppose we're `mean' and flippant because that's just how we are, as humans. we can't take anything with total sincerity, especially the things that mean the world to us, 24/7. (but does it excuse us? if my ex is mean and flippant to me, do i say, but well, he's human? yeah but i still wanna kick his ass across the country.)
so i'll give everyone (that i admire, otherwise) the benefit of the doubt and say, probably they don't mean that draco and ginny (say), are "meant to be together". or draco and neville for example (*hinthint*,
luciusmalfoy, heh). of course, if someone -does- think draco/neville are meant to be, i rest my case and refuse to argue (obviously it'd be hopeless, heh). of course, "meant to be" is just silly romantic fluff anyway. right?yeah....
in books/movies/tv, characters are thrown together rather cruelly and randomly, in long-running things especially, aren't they? and we don't complain -too- much. we just wait it out, mostly. sorta like, in hp canon, even, is jkr really implying that harry/cho are "meant to be"? well, probably not....
just because we've written something doesn't mean we think the universe is meant to work this way, and we're devoted to this perfect ideal we've created. far from it, right. well, blah, this should be 'obvious', especially as regards to "squick" stories and "horror" & "torture" stories, etc etc.
personally, i don't `do' horror/torture/squick/etc within my own writing, and i don't seek it out to read/watch. i have an intrinsic need for Meaning & Beauty, so even if i'm going to like a horror tale, it's gonna have those. (say, Hellraiser. heeeyyy... it had meaning... sorta... *pouts*)
yah. so i'd like input, actually.
why do you guys (er...well... i believe `you' exist now... progress, eh?) write the pairings you do? i mean, i'm sure you can say, "no reason", or "i'm flippant that way"... but you know, er... besides that.
and if someone can explain their deep devotion (if such a thing exists) to draco/ginny to me... i don't know... i might be grateful, or traumatized for life, i'm not sure, heh. personally, i'm wary of giving all this importance to minor characters-- because they turn into, basically, original characters. which slightly bothers me, as far as 'shipping goes. i dunno why. sorta, it's not 'shipping if you just make up the characters. um. i dunno if you can 'ship within your own storyline, exactly, y'know? and from what i know of ginny, she's just harry's fangirl and token weasley sister, no? where's the possibility of her being all that Special coming from, really, in canon anyway? of course, you can argue -draco- isn't all that "special", in canon. oh well. yah so it's all moot isn't it. well, i knew that. i just like to ramble :) still, though. i like my romances to have that spark. tension. compatibilities mixing and smouldering against -incompatibilities-. angst! woo! plus y'know. "a marriage of true minds", etc., power/intelligence equality also. i'm so, so picky. *deep sigh*. maybe i just need to lighten up ~:)
``ok um, i guess i feel silly now. well...mostly because the brunt of my argument rests with something as relative and silly (well, to rational people) as "rightness". juvenile of me, i guess ~:) it's sort of like, i never got over the "princess bride" model of romance, heh. *hides*
it all seems to come from a tendency to want stories to be, ultimately, fairy tales, or at least strongly archetypal, plus identifying with characters (especially if i like them). so that whole shtick about realism is, in hindsight, kind of funny actually (because in the end all i can say is what seems realistic to -me-).
it's true you can make anything be realistic if you try. so yah. maybe i'm on my way to being totally laissez-faire about who's with whom doing what :>
hey it could happen...
sometimes i can't bear to read things, even if they're amazingly good, just because they say things i don't want to hear. well i'm sure i'm not alone in that, probably. ok, definitely.
so, yeah. i mean, i sort of kind of was thinking that there's a sort of "reality" outside of a particular fic, that the "group" of readers/writers created. when it comes to fanfic. but definitely, every time a writer uses a character, that's what they're doing-- using, making them over in their own image. so it's all perfectly understandable. i, certainly, do that, pretty straightforwardly even.
in my own mind, draco & harry & any character i remember well from a story, exist outside of that, or any other, story. that sounds weird, but... it's that whole gestalt thing. the whole greater than the sum of its parts? i dunno.
but as much as that seems true, most definitely, the greatest life these characters have would be in every reader's own head. where they kind of merge with you, the reader, become part of you. so if suddenly this part of you does things you'd never do, you feel a bit out of sorts. or at least that's my latest theory :>
but thanks. i do think i get it (better) now.
though i still don't know if anyone can be happy with anyone else. i swear to god, i know people who'd kill each other in 2 days and nothing on earth would motivate them to work at it enough. heh. actually, most people manage to kill each other slowly, over say, 20 years, instead. definitely, there's something that runs out of steam with some couples-- people change, skin wrinkles, sometimes people decide they're suddenly gay. i dunno :) a lot can happen :>
that doesn't mean that "meant-to-be" really exists. i think when i think that, i think in terms of pure Story, pure archetype. actual people are way too complex, probably, to fit together 100%. there seem to be degrees of "rightness", as far as one's own emotional resonances go, even in relation to fictional characters. some scenarios just make one-- happy-- hopeful-- amazed-- content-- transformed, even, and others just kind of make one feel cynical & even pained. but this is purely subjective of course, as is everything to do with couplehood, i guess.
um, sorry for rambling (again!)
this helped, though. i dunno if i can now sally forth and read scary dystopian (to me) stories, but i think i woke up a little and realized how silly this whole 'shipping business really is :>
in real life too, i guess. *sniff*
~reena, who never lets herself get away with soppiness much as she wants to."
P.S. ~~oh my goodness... this... *trails off*...
``Everything, I think, is an elaborate sarcophagus for the shadows, the dry matte ebon prints fringed with moonshine that rest in vampire sleep on walls and ceilings and floors."
*swoons* it tastes like hazelnut chocolate filling, rich and smokey and delicious. *drugged grin*
P.P.S. ~~``You know, Harry, I never knew you had an ass."
*looks again* erm. *wanders off, disturbed, yet smirking*
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Just one comment....
Date: 2002-08-09 05:41 pm (UTC)Nope. It's for real. That's all I wanted to say. *grins* Well, that and KEEP POSTING! (so interesting!)
~thanks~:)
Date: 2002-08-10 03:49 pm (UTC)i'm too apologetic about my fluffiness and stuff, i think. this is what happens when you try to be a "respectable thinker", not that i do, but i guess that's what it ends up looking like.
what fun is any of it if you don't believe in fairy-tales anyway, right :>
~reena