I think I'm experiencing a resurgence of... something. Or other. Fandomy. I blame MsScribe!!1 >:O!!
But anyway, I think
furiosity's Don't Like? Don't Read! a Tragedie in Five Acts pretty much sums up my life in fandom :D :D Hahaha, I too was Ms Gentle Reader once upon a time. And then I read too many questionable fics of the same questionably plausible pairing for a questionably long time, 'tis true. *wibble*
What I wanted to say was-- though I have no problem with headers/warnings etc. in theory, I've never seen them as useful in the 'don't like, don't read' fangirl philosophy of avoiding fics I wouldn't like...
Sometimes (if I trust the source), I've enjoyed pairings that make no sense in theory and which I would've avoided, normally, based on warning alone (like Draco/Dumbledore) or scenarios I generally find squicky (like Lucius/Draco chan). Basically, what warnings don't address (beyond the obvious usefulness of pairing labels for shippers) is the question of quality, which is overriding in terms of what makes a fic readable. Not only that, even given pure writing quality, it doesn't address fanon characterization issues-- I mean, even if you did warn for fanon!Draco, say, it would depend on the author as to what that means in practice. (Meaning, very different characterizations are still fanon stereotypes, some more palatable than others to a particular reader.)
I think for some people, it -would- be enough to know a fic doesn't include their worst squicks (like, for me it would be deathfic & rapefic + ice-prince!Draco) and/or included their biggest kinks (for me it'd probably be stuff no one ever warns for, like snark & cute plot-devices like detentions or potions and such). Myself, I'd just be a lot more careful with stuff that really squicks me, as in, I'm less likely to trust an author I don't know, and more likely if the unknown wrote a favorite cliche of mine, like Harry & Draco need to fuck or the world will END (no one does that anymore, man). I mean, to me, my squicks are really a fuzzy line, 'cause many of the best H/D fics have included death, like Olympia's and Amalin's and Maya's, and a lot of the sexiest scenes for me walk the edge of consent (and it's really a toss up whether you could call it rape from another person's pov).
(And need I even say that ice-prince!Draco is in nearly all the well-written/classic H/D I myself loved?)
More detailed things like reviews aren't reliable either, 'cause so much depends on a reviewer's individual bias. Just yesterday, I came across a glowing review of a popular fic I absolutely hate, written by an apparently intelligent reader in articulate terms. If anything, often the more 'intelligent' and articulate reviewers seem to go easier on fics than I do 'cause they focus more on the writing itself & less on canonical plausibility or stuff that's particular to a ship (like, how a particular fic reflects or comments on the ship, which always concerns me).
So basically I don't care about the things people warn for one way or another (like I've never read a fic I'd say had a true Mary Sue, no matter how white-washed Draco gets), and never get warnings for what really annoys me (like flowery writing, stupid fanon excuses, shmoopy sex, Sex God!Draco, etc). Possibly warnings are meant for more 'standard' readers... whatever -those- are. I don't know, really. Are there really People Who'll Read Anything Well-written or People Who Read For Kink & that's it?
~~
So many people hatin' on H/D fanon cliches here made me a happy, happy (less alone!) fanpoodle! :X!
But anyway, I think
What I wanted to say was-- though I have no problem with headers/warnings etc. in theory, I've never seen them as useful in the 'don't like, don't read' fangirl philosophy of avoiding fics I wouldn't like...
Sometimes (if I trust the source), I've enjoyed pairings that make no sense in theory and which I would've avoided, normally, based on warning alone (like Draco/Dumbledore) or scenarios I generally find squicky (like Lucius/Draco chan). Basically, what warnings don't address (beyond the obvious usefulness of pairing labels for shippers) is the question of quality, which is overriding in terms of what makes a fic readable. Not only that, even given pure writing quality, it doesn't address fanon characterization issues-- I mean, even if you did warn for fanon!Draco, say, it would depend on the author as to what that means in practice. (Meaning, very different characterizations are still fanon stereotypes, some more palatable than others to a particular reader.)
I think for some people, it -would- be enough to know a fic doesn't include their worst squicks (like, for me it would be deathfic & rapefic + ice-prince!Draco) and/or included their biggest kinks (for me it'd probably be stuff no one ever warns for, like snark & cute plot-devices like detentions or potions and such). Myself, I'd just be a lot more careful with stuff that really squicks me, as in, I'm less likely to trust an author I don't know, and more likely if the unknown wrote a favorite cliche of mine, like Harry & Draco need to fuck or the world will END (no one does that anymore, man). I mean, to me, my squicks are really a fuzzy line, 'cause many of the best H/D fics have included death, like Olympia's and Amalin's and Maya's, and a lot of the sexiest scenes for me walk the edge of consent (and it's really a toss up whether you could call it rape from another person's pov).
(And need I even say that ice-prince!Draco is in nearly all the well-written/classic H/D I myself loved?)
More detailed things like reviews aren't reliable either, 'cause so much depends on a reviewer's individual bias. Just yesterday, I came across a glowing review of a popular fic I absolutely hate, written by an apparently intelligent reader in articulate terms. If anything, often the more 'intelligent' and articulate reviewers seem to go easier on fics than I do 'cause they focus more on the writing itself & less on canonical plausibility or stuff that's particular to a ship (like, how a particular fic reflects or comments on the ship, which always concerns me).
So basically I don't care about the things people warn for one way or another (like I've never read a fic I'd say had a true Mary Sue, no matter how white-washed Draco gets), and never get warnings for what really annoys me (like flowery writing, stupid fanon excuses, shmoopy sex, Sex God!Draco, etc). Possibly warnings are meant for more 'standard' readers... whatever -those- are. I don't know, really. Are there really People Who'll Read Anything Well-written or People Who Read For Kink & that's it?
~~
So many people hatin' on H/D fanon cliches here made me a happy, happy (less alone!) fanpoodle! :X!
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Date: 2006-07-03 09:27 pm (UTC)Same here! I know it's terrible to be so narrow-minded, but people will write crap and there's no way of telling before you start.
I think 'warning' is an inherently flawed term for what they're doing -- namely, giving away the major plot points. If it's a rapefic, then the rape should be written plausibly and not gratitiously, with enough care that the reader believes that it had to happen this way. If you don't have enough skill to do that and have to warn instead, then you shouldn't be writing it.
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Date: 2006-07-03 09:48 pm (UTC)Maan... I wrote 2 (I can't believe it myself!) rapefics, both with full warnings 'cause they were PWPs & it wasn't like there was something -else- to read it for, y'know? So personally, I wouldn't warn for rape in a longfic, but in a PWP it seems like 'well, I don't wanna be flamed' or something, ahahah. It doesn't seem to be giving away plot-points in a PWP, anyway :> And the only deathfics I've written have -revolved- around the death, like-- the death was the point and the whole... subject, so that too would be obvious. Man, I should finish my Draco deathfic, I'm still prouder of that than most things. I probably would've had much more of an -audience- for it back when I wrote it (in like, 2003 or something!! jeez) but... anyway, getting off track ^^;;
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Date: 2006-07-03 09:53 pm (UTC)Yes, I can see you'd need a warning there -- I always think in terms of long/er fics, I guess. ♥
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Date: 2006-07-03 10:03 pm (UTC)Another example of a fic that works even though it's got iffy-canon characterizations is Underwater Light. I think it works because I can tell Maya really believes this is how it is-- it's her honest-to-god interpretation of canon. If people disagree with her Draco & call him uber-fanon (which they do), fine-- but to her, it's clear where he's coming from, which is canon. I'm totally fine with that-- and get very upset when a writer -tries- to tie the character with canon insincerely or weakly, while mostly just beating the fanon drum to the point of me thinking 'okay, this person's in -serious- denial about what fanon is'.
But. Then you come to the 'modern age' of H/D, with Transfigurations, Left My Heart, A Thousand Beautiful Things & Shadow of his Wings. Out of these, only Transfig really worked for me, and I believe it's because of its intenese personal focus on Harry. There was a plot, sure, but the fic really hung on Harry's issues & characterization in general in a way none of the others do. A lot of people whose taste I trust have knocked Transfig pretty hard, but it has that 'honest response to canon' thing in common with Underwater Light. I mean, the Draco actually -is- uber-fanon, but he seems sincere somehow. He seems -natural- and not transplanted.
I don't know if any of that makes sense. Maybe I'm just making up excuses for disliking all those fics :/
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Date: 2006-07-03 10:14 pm (UTC)Okay, forum here. I've read all this fics.
I read Origins at a very good time, because I was just into fandom, just into slash, and just into H/D. It really gelled with me. It was the first really full-on sex I'd ever read, too, which helped. At the time, the really big iffy thing was the godammn lists of smells. Everyone smelled of about ten thousand different things.
Maya's faith in all her characters is very clear, I see what you mean. Me, I'd write something one way to help the plot along but I don't really believe a word of it. That may be the main difference between she and I. :)
I don't think I finished Shadow because ... well, put it this way, I can't even remember what happened in it. Was it the one with the tents? Out of all of them though, I think I liked Transfig least. It wasn't Draco, because I could sorta buy that interpretation -- I just thought the author was a bit lazy and didn't want to make him as wanky as he really is, which is fine. Most people don't bother. It was Harry's characterisation I didn't like in that one. It all seemed so overplayed, that fic. I got to the end and just went 'Oh. Well.'
Then again, so few fics move me a lot these days. Left My Heart was okay, but I hated Hermione's children's names; I didn't fancy the sex scenes in ATBT. Then again, since Underwater Light, I've never expected to be wowed by anything. Even rereading that is a bit disappointing. The writing is still good, but my perception of it has changed.
So, like I say, I read for the sake of it now. I never felt as strongly about getting the characterisation 'IC' as you or Furiosity -- I just wanted to believe it. It takes very little to get me to believe. Hell, I was even stuck on that one where Draco skies and they get dressed up in period costume to go to Austenish dances -- what was it called? Meh. I don't know what else to say but that the power of someone's writing and their own belief in 'this is how it should go' are really the only things that count, in the end.
And also, you don't need a reason to hate something, same as you don't need a reason to like it!
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Date: 2006-07-03 10:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-03 10:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-03 10:32 pm (UTC)Um. Where was I...
Yes. I can actually see the over-the-topness of the Harry in Transfig, but taken in context-- he was grumpy and broody and whiny & resentful when most people were writing him all uber-adjusted & ridiculously forgiving and stuff. No one made him grumpy. It was really annoying. And then Resonant came along :))
And! See, I know I don't -need- reasons, I just -have- them, really. It's not even that I'm so ICness-obsessed like furiosity, I just... I have pet peeves. A lot of them. And bland, smooth-operator, sensible & unruffled Dracos like in ATBT and Shadow... it's... it's sort of like watching a bad remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers over and over again. And the sex in ATBT really -was- bad (I skipped to the end! Have only actually read a chapter). I didn't even read -that- much of Shadow, just saw how horrid its Draco was at first glance & could tell where it was going with the H/D (Harry's just so... starry-eyed and Draco's so cool-mysterious-Slytherin-sex-machine I want to HIT something... repeatedly).
I may remember the Austenish dances, but it's a reflection on H/D fandom that there are several like that. One is 'Facade', I believe, which I barely skimmed because it's worse than a Harlequin, and another is a rewrite of an Austen novel, I forget which one. Uh. I sorta liked that one, but then I sorta liked a lot of things when I first came to fandom. And! If just liking ICness was enough, I'd probably like furiosity's fics more than I do. Though I still like them more than ATBT, but then no fic gets me riled up like that one so I shouldn't compare... ^^;; I actually really like it when she does angry!dom-Harry!and-violent-sex!H/D... :>
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Date: 2006-07-03 10:43 pm (UTC)um.
Haha, you would -think- being in ENGLAND would like, actually drive me -farther- from my fanfic, but no, I think I'm clinging to my most familiar thing. Or something. Er. I -am- writing! You can tell 'cause I've renamed by fic twice in the last two days (I always rename feverishly when in the throws of inspiration... or something like that). I haven't -written- much but I've thought about it a lot, which is good also. Er. Probably ^^;; It has a new plot-point now (...well, the prophecy by the Centaurs, which is actually an old one but it -has- a point... more of a point now). It's also been called 'The Running Man' 'cause it was more visceral than 'The Hanged Man' (well, I thought it was so cool 'cause Draco's running at the end of HBP and walking away at the end of my fic, so I wrote a new beginning where he's running) but then I got hit by inspiration while skimming a fic and so now it's Ouroburos (the World snake eating its own tail!! plus it's sort of a dragon-slash-snake). So there's that end-is-the-beginning-is-the-end connotation which I thought fits. Uh.
SO YES. I love my class but mostly am not venturing out except on scheduled field-trips much (yet) and British people seem too cool for me & I'm a bit intimidated but enjoying the ambiance. I'll try to get out more soon -.-;; I've settled in to the point of knowing where the grocery store is, though! Plus it's nice here, even though the birds are really loud in the early morning... even though I live in the countryside (sort of) upstate NY, there aren't the... birds.... D:
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Date: 2006-07-03 10:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-03 10:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-03 11:07 pm (UTC)Hey, anyway. I'm glad you're planning/writing! :) You ought to send me more and shiz. Or shoot some ideas my way, if it'd help. It'll be awesome (and bittersweet!) for you when you finish this 'cause you've been working on it for so long.
I think you're still getting settled in to a new place, really. You'll feel more comfortable once you get to know a few people who can show you around, etc. Meantime, I'm just excited for you. :)! What's the campus/town like?
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Date: 2006-07-03 11:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-03 11:22 pm (UTC)I think Durendal continued that fic, actually! Though I don't think it was as good, so maybe it's almost better that she didn't? Er. But. I just really like her style of humor ^^;; I'm helpless before her. It's sad :/ I don't think most parody works for me either if it's stuff like Little Britain, but Durendal's stuff never came across that way-- it's more... sekritly serious??! I dunno, it's got that undercurrent of seriousness in there, which can be as interesting as serious-fic-that's-funny. I think when you're seriously funny (ummm) you can't help but touch upon 'real' issues, or something, y'know? Whereas compared to that, parody is shallow because it doesn't have its -own- content or something ^^;;
Oh, I don't find ATBT 'terribly bad', I just hate the Draco characterization (in the first chapter... which is all I read, but). It's all in what you focus on, I suppose :> I'm totally unaware of anything longish
...it's true that F's aren't always IC, but she usually labels the crack :))
In terms of blanking out flaws... I think there are short fics that are absolutely brilliant enough to blank out any flaws-- I mean, biased as I am, etc. Like,
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Date: 2006-07-03 11:38 pm (UTC)PROCRASTINATORSWICKED. That one's easier 'cause I'm not really stuck on any point, just know it too well or something. Plus finish the Draco deathfic 'cause it ROCKS, if I do say so myself (AND I DO). And the titles thing was me throwing out ideas to you, you know! :P!I... I have no idea how to 'get to know' people in real life, 'cause usually they just
pounce mesay hi on their own. I'm just the quiet weird-looking girl in the corner. Uh... but the campus is actually a lot like Binghamton campus 'cause it was built in the 60s/70s/whatever, so it's a lot of brick buildings and glass and indoor courtyards and fountains (it's really odd how they don't fountain water and just sort of sit there making you have to walk around them sometimes).I've only been to Brighton once & the nearby village once for groceries! Brighton's really cool! I should actually post my notes on it (I took notes!! even though I forgot my camera, there's this place that reminds me of Diagon Alley 'cause of the winding... alleyness of it, um). Yes. Everything's a lot cleaner! AND EVERYONE HAS AN ENGLISH ACCENT, WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??! D: Seriously. Um. Plus everything closes at like -four-. I'm actually considering taking this one random guy on the mailing list for the summer school up on his offer to travel together with strangers, but, y'know... STRANGE GUY so :/
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Date: 2006-07-03 11:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-03 11:57 pm (UTC)Well, you know, even if you don't meet people (which I'm sure you will--probably in your classes at least), you can spend the summer in quiet contemplation, and, like, take nature walks and travel around the countryside and in general do Very Awesome Things of that sort. It'd be fun!
You forgot your camera?! Buy disposable ones, please! I'm expecting about four hundred million pictures, or at least a few rolls. :) Uh...maybe you should just meet up with the strange guy for coffee first, like, in a very crowded coffee shop with a window in the bathroom so you could run away if you had to. :P
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Date: 2006-07-03 11:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 12:14 am (UTC)Hehe, I meant I forgot my camera in my room :> Though perhaps I should hold the pictures hostage for whenever you make it to NYC :)) *strokes chin thoughtfully*
...I'm pretty pessimistic re: the strange guy, 'cause who would ask for company on a mailing list?? I dunno, also I don't get along well with 'normal' people, so it could turn weird fast. I'm not sure what's too pessimistic & what's just sensibly pessimistic in this sort of situation ><;; eheheh.
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Date: 2006-07-04 12:25 am (UTC)Anyway, I like the title. :) I'll have to read the new parts (whenever you write them! :P) to be able to say something that's actually helpful, but. Yes.
Haha, I thought you meant you completely forgot your camera! :P I'm glad you didn't! Lots and lots of pictures, please! :) I just spent two hours on Saturday looking at all the pictures my friend Melissa took in Ireland, so beware! I, like, pore over every one. "OOOH! WHERE'S THIS?!"
Yeah, I definitely think it's a bit odd, but. I was just saying, if you were at all interested in meeting up with him, then I'd meet for coffee first (which I'm sure you'd do). Since you don't seem to care that much, don't even worry about it, man. :)
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Date: 2006-07-04 12:41 am (UTC)Okay, here's a bit which is at the beginning now, which is melodramatic and contains running because of the old title, y'know, with... the running... uh.
The boy ran, a hollow terror nipping at his heels.
Tears blinded his vision as he wiped them angrily away. He couldn't quite see where he was going in the dark in any case, but all he knew was that he had to keep going-- he couldn't let himself fall. He couldn't stop and rest. He couldn't use magic this close to Hogwarts, not when they could use it to track him. Not now.
He didn't have the breath to curse them, any of them. The night air was heavy with mist and the earth was soft and damp, pulling at his feet, trying to keep him from freedom. Not that he had any illusions about that now, if he'd stopped to think about it. He didn't stop.
Near collapse with exhaustion and gasping from the awful stitch at his side, faint and furious and shit scared all in hopelessly tangled layers, he ran harder. After a moment, without further warning, it started to rain.
+ + +
Draco Malfoy didn't believe in fate. He believed in getting what he wanted.
The summer after fifth year, Auntie Bellatrix came over to Malfoy Manor [etcetc]
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Date: 2006-07-04 10:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 10:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 10:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 10:51 pm (UTC)Amalin, Amalin. You mention her a lot. Is she gone from fandom?
"Your Every Desire" chilled me to the bone. I still have nightmares about it. Me, I am not a horror and gore sort of girl. I like romcoms. But still, I'm glad I read that one.
Must check that one out ...
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Date: 2006-07-04 10:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 10:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 10:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 11:11 pm (UTC)But yeah, 'Your Every Desire' is scary as fuck. Hard to find a flaw in it other than that though, isn't it :> :>
You should also read 'Red (http://bloom.velveteen.net/red.html)' by Miss Breed, or that wanking fic that's also on her site, though the wankfic is less with the classic!H/D and more with the IC wanking. Heh. Amalin... yeah, was like one of the first 5 H/D writers I found, and there's a list of her stuff here (http://monochromal.livejournal.com/67726.html), though most of what -I- read, she links at the bottom at her website. I dunno how it holds up characterization-wise (her longfic-- the one at the top-- that one does, but the other old H/D ficlets are just REALLY well-written. uh. *cough*)
I'm really a style-whore who got burned too many times :/
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Date: 2006-07-04 11:17 pm (UTC)Very hard. Very very hard.
Ah yes, monochromal! I remember her very last longfic coming out (I did not read it). I'm a bit bored with the H/D dynamic nowadays, frankly. Everyone is so keen to write worthy, non leather pants wearing or sex gods that ... well ... it's a bit dull.
Or maybe I just want more spin the bottle fics. I think they're so cute.
Hehehe. (I don't know why that's funny.)
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Date: 2006-07-04 11:27 pm (UTC)...See, see, people TRY to be better but really they just get worse :/ Like, seriously, they may talk the talk (and they don't really talk -my- talk anyway), but no one walks the walk. HBP isn't the best soil for cute H/D, but then no one agreed with me about the wonderousness about OoTP!H/D anyway... but yes. Aspen & Sara/
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Date: 2006-07-04 11:34 pm (UTC)Probably in some grotty little newsagents, but I digress.
Really, I just wish
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Date: 2006-07-04 11:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 11:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 11:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-04 11:58 pm (UTC)