meeeeh, random meta time ^^
Dec. 21st, 2006 02:25 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaMan, I'm drowning in Sentinel fic (ahhh, the freedom of good!fic and not really knowing what a fanon!Blair or fanon!Jim would even BE... bliss), but feel a bit rueful that it's not even an option to join the fandom-- all the fics were written '98-'01, it seems like. This seems to be a trend with the fandoms I stumble into, like Highlander & even Star Wars: TPM; it's generally not when there's a big to-do about it among the lj crowd. I just sort of find some good fanfiction & go 'hmmm', and then that snowballs. 'Cause like, the truth is, even the fans admit these are cheesy, cheesy shows. Like, with the exceptions to this (Smallville & The OC), I -tried- watching the show as it was on, but I have no patience for cheesy bad!TV. In fact, I don't watch TV in general for that very reason (ie, it's too cheesy/lame and when it's not it's just repetitive or not my preferred genre or... etc)
So the appeal is generally not the show, and that's a good thing, 'cause when by some miracle I Really Like The Show enough to watch compulsively, you'd have a really hard time getting me to slash (which is a sort of Catch-22, isn't it).
I was sort of thinking about this, and I think there are categories of Characters or Couples I Don't Slash, like--
1 - if one [or both] of the characters has a serious hetero relationship/bond on the show which is stronger than the slashy bond [ex.: why I ship Mulder/Scully & not Mulder/Krycek] or if you can't get them together believably without a threesome;
2 - obviously, I won't slash if I already have a het pairing I ship (canon or fanon) with one of the characters-- or a slash pairing, usually [ie, I -like- Harry/Ginny and could write it and read it if I had to, but there's no waaaaaayyyy I ship it 'cause that would make my brain ESSSSSPLODE]; I just don't double-ship characters, whether or not it's an OTP. There are rare exceptions (well, basically it's just my Fruits Basket semi-OT3 and that's it) that prove the rule, though.
[Aaaand, it's not that I don't respect/get fascinated by the characters' other relationships, or think they can't/shouldn't love other people? It's just that... there are things I like to play with in a fictional 'verse and things I like to keep constant, just to have a base I spring from. Characterization is one of the main things I like to keep constant, so in my head, if Character A went for Character B instead of Character C (who's most likely or closest to them or most suited, whatever), Character B has to get broken up with or they'd have to never meet or whatever, which makes me sad.
One of the things that throws me off is the characterization of Draco in H/S fics, for instance. If, in fact, people did justice to characters/relationships outside the OTP/pairing in question more often, this wouldn't be a problem, but. I feel like I'm more likely to get a basic emotional resonance in terms of characterization if I read the pairings I like the most-- like, they'll acknowledge the important things? Or something; in practice, I get jaded/pissed at my fave-pairing fics even more 'cause I'm pickier (after a while). :P That's actually one of the major reasons I don't read slashfic for characters in committed het couples in canon-- I mean, I would need to have -serious- acknowledgment of the relationship, no vilification, no nothing-- in theory. In practice, see point lower down about OC guy Blair confessed to in a fic-- I mean, if you talk too much about how 'special' another person is in a romance between two people, it's like '......okay, this sucks', y'know? So I prefer to just avoid it.]
3 - usually, if the characters have a very strong platonic bond that may be messed up by the addition of sex [ex.: Kirk/Spock, Sam/Dean, Frodo/Sam, etc], though I love slashing strong platonic bonds that seem frought/incomplete to me [ie, this is totally subjective, but there has to be suppressed tension, and I don't mean UST!!];
4 - if the character just seems too -old- to write first-time 'omg I want a guy??!' stories with [ie, no 35+ year olds], though there are a couple of exceptions that basically enter into the supernatural or preternaturally HOTTT [ex.: Qui-Gon, maybe Picard] or the pairing is really between two guys who always had interesting tension but never did anything [ex.: yes, I ship Magneto/Professor X];
5 - if the character has a stronger yet platonic friendship bond with another guy on the show [ex.: I wouldn't slash Frodo with Merry or Heero or Duo with any of the other pilots 'cause they're clearly closest to each other. This doesn't apply to H/D with regards to Harry+Ron because Draco is a totally different dynamic, and there's no way Draco is in any way 'second best' to Ron-- I mean, he's like a different SPECIES than Ron];
[There's an interesting exception to this, I think, 'cause I definitely ship Q/Picard, so: y'know, obviously Picard has closer relationships to his crew than he does to Q, but his relationship to Q is just so unique, it takes it over the edge. Q is just in a league of his own, y'know? There's no denying that. Whereas if you want me to like Spock/McCoy (*shudder*) when there's Kirk/Spock to be had, you're treading on v. thin ice-- well, basically you're gonna squick me like no tomorrow. Even though I'm ambivalent about sexualizing K/S, it's still obviously the dominant relationship-- it just blows Spock/McCoy OUT OF THE WATER. So much so that I'm like... 'YOU ARE ALL ON CRACK, AREN'T YOU. YES, YES YOU ARE'... even though I really love the Spock/McCoy relationship. Still. CRACK.]
6 - if the issues raised by the interaction between the characters are more interesting/challenging without sexualizing it [ex.: Harry/Ron, Snape/Draco];
7 - if there's no real meta point to it that I like in terms of character dynamic & it's mostly proximity & maybe UST [ex.: Angel/Spike, sooort of Harry/Snape-- not stuff like Mulder/Scully though, 'cause I wouldn't refuse romance on the principle that 'friendship is better'; it's just a sort of limp feeling, like if it wouldn't be that big of a deal?? I dunno; there's no way I would've imagined M/S being the way it was on the show though, that's for sure. Anyway, obviously it's not that H/S wouldn't be a big deal, it's just that I'm skeptical about the nature and desirability of the emotional pay-off if by some miracle it occurred.]
8 - if there's a strong, central and subtexty bond with a best friend, I would never do enemy!slash even if I didn't ship the friend!slash-- it would feel like a betrayal.
Anyway, it's sort of funny 'cause I'm not a canon!whore in most ways people are [ie, I don't follow the letter of the law, am not that much of an authorial intent stickler, am not into gen as a rule, etc]-- it's just that I get this one vision of any given canon & I stick to it, and that vision is generally heavily influenced by... uh, the actual canon. So if I saw slash UST or het UST in canon, I'd be equally stubborn about it, fandom or authorial intent be damned. Generally though, I don't bother to 'see' anything beyond the text-- most things just don't -inspire- me enough to be participatory as an audience. Plus, I find I'm attracted to fanfic more than canon in terms of fandoms I wanna read-- so to convert me, you'd have to squee about fic/pairing meta [or vids!! never underestimate the awesome power of VIDS!!1] rather than the show :))
~~
What I noticed in my own preferences is a tendency to be like 'no way would I go for Second Best'; it's probably my perfectionist streak :>
Actually, I was reading a Sentinel fic where Jim overheard Blair actually confess his love(!!) to another guy, just an OC, and they didn't even -date- within the fic (it was an old flame), but I'd prefer an all-out sexual relationship as long as it wasn't that serious & didn't mean as much as the central one of the fic, y'know? It has to be #1. It has to be The Most Awesome Thing EVER, otherwise I'm like '...meh, I'll go make soup'. :> I really can't wrap my head around the idea of... I dunno, casual shipping (...for -myself-, I mean) :>
Actually, that's why non-romantic 'realistic' (ie, 'they're just fucking & it's not that big of a deal') H/D fics don't do it for me-- I mean, if it's not a big deal, WHO CARES??! [I mean, okay, sure, sex, but eh... I'm easily bored. Where's my soup, y'know?? Casualness = distractibility, and I'm supposed to be paying attention, right? Uh?] On the other hand, it's like, if it's -too- romantic, I'm like... 'you're pushing this too hard, man. Besides, uhhhh, who are these pod-people, anyway??' Heh.
So yeah, um... it may seem like I always go for the predictable pairing (which sort of allies me somewhat with the canon-thumpy people), but that's 'cause I'm just always GREEDY. I always want the most fic, the most UST, the most issues, the mostest MOSTEST, haha. Sometimes it's unclear what's mostest (like the B/J vs B/M pairing thing in QaF) because there are these relationships that are totally different but equal (ie, realistic! ...but who cares), but that's unusual; I suppose then my first experience/natural preference takes over, but fact is I go off my pairing loff if there's any real competition. I'm a very all-or-nothing person in a fictional sense; in real life, I constantly wibble indecisively and love four zillion things & people at once and never really want to choose one thing over another, but. THIS IS FICTION! Which has like, a responsibility to fill in the gaps, somehow... in my head, I mean :>
Er, yeah, okay, there was no point to this post! Unless! You want to discuss/tell me what -your- pairing patterns are, if you have some quirky pattern to it, anyway, rather than 'oh, I generally just like canon' or 'oh, I just like anything if it's hot' :D I'm equally fascinated by both mine & others' quirks (...sadly, I know) :>
So the appeal is generally not the show, and that's a good thing, 'cause when by some miracle I Really Like The Show enough to watch compulsively, you'd have a really hard time getting me to slash (which is a sort of Catch-22, isn't it).
I was sort of thinking about this, and I think there are categories of Characters or Couples I Don't Slash, like--
1 - if one [or both] of the characters has a serious hetero relationship/bond on the show which is stronger than the slashy bond [ex.: why I ship Mulder/Scully & not Mulder/Krycek] or if you can't get them together believably without a threesome;
2 - obviously, I won't slash if I already have a het pairing I ship (canon or fanon) with one of the characters-- or a slash pairing, usually [ie, I -like- Harry/Ginny and could write it and read it if I had to, but there's no waaaaaayyyy I ship it 'cause that would make my brain ESSSSSPLODE]; I just don't double-ship characters, whether or not it's an OTP. There are rare exceptions (well, basically it's just my Fruits Basket semi-OT3 and that's it) that prove the rule, though.
[Aaaand, it's not that I don't respect/get fascinated by the characters' other relationships, or think they can't/shouldn't love other people? It's just that... there are things I like to play with in a fictional 'verse and things I like to keep constant, just to have a base I spring from. Characterization is one of the main things I like to keep constant, so in my head, if Character A went for Character B instead of Character C (who's most likely or closest to them or most suited, whatever), Character B has to get broken up with or they'd have to never meet or whatever, which makes me sad.
One of the things that throws me off is the characterization of Draco in H/S fics, for instance. If, in fact, people did justice to characters/relationships outside the OTP/pairing in question more often, this wouldn't be a problem, but. I feel like I'm more likely to get a basic emotional resonance in terms of characterization if I read the pairings I like the most-- like, they'll acknowledge the important things? Or something; in practice, I get jaded/pissed at my fave-pairing fics even more 'cause I'm pickier (after a while). :P That's actually one of the major reasons I don't read slashfic for characters in committed het couples in canon-- I mean, I would need to have -serious- acknowledgment of the relationship, no vilification, no nothing-- in theory. In practice, see point lower down about OC guy Blair confessed to in a fic-- I mean, if you talk too much about how 'special' another person is in a romance between two people, it's like '......okay, this sucks', y'know? So I prefer to just avoid it.]
3 - usually, if the characters have a very strong platonic bond that may be messed up by the addition of sex [ex.: Kirk/Spock, Sam/Dean, Frodo/Sam, etc], though I love slashing strong platonic bonds that seem frought/incomplete to me [ie, this is totally subjective, but there has to be suppressed tension, and I don't mean UST!!];
4 - if the character just seems too -old- to write first-time 'omg I want a guy??!' stories with [ie, no 35+ year olds], though there are a couple of exceptions that basically enter into the supernatural or preternaturally HOTTT [ex.: Qui-Gon, maybe Picard] or the pairing is really between two guys who always had interesting tension but never did anything [ex.: yes, I ship Magneto/Professor X];
5 - if the character has a stronger yet platonic friendship bond with another guy on the show [ex.: I wouldn't slash Frodo with Merry or Heero or Duo with any of the other pilots 'cause they're clearly closest to each other. This doesn't apply to H/D with regards to Harry+Ron because Draco is a totally different dynamic, and there's no way Draco is in any way 'second best' to Ron-- I mean, he's like a different SPECIES than Ron];
[There's an interesting exception to this, I think, 'cause I definitely ship Q/Picard, so: y'know, obviously Picard has closer relationships to his crew than he does to Q, but his relationship to Q is just so unique, it takes it over the edge. Q is just in a league of his own, y'know? There's no denying that. Whereas if you want me to like Spock/McCoy (*shudder*) when there's Kirk/Spock to be had, you're treading on v. thin ice-- well, basically you're gonna squick me like no tomorrow. Even though I'm ambivalent about sexualizing K/S, it's still obviously the dominant relationship-- it just blows Spock/McCoy OUT OF THE WATER. So much so that I'm like... 'YOU ARE ALL ON CRACK, AREN'T YOU. YES, YES YOU ARE'... even though I really love the Spock/McCoy relationship. Still. CRACK.]
6 - if the issues raised by the interaction between the characters are more interesting/challenging without sexualizing it [ex.: Harry/Ron, Snape/Draco];
7 - if there's no real meta point to it that I like in terms of character dynamic & it's mostly proximity & maybe UST [ex.: Angel/Spike, sooort of Harry/Snape-- not stuff like Mulder/Scully though, 'cause I wouldn't refuse romance on the principle that 'friendship is better'; it's just a sort of limp feeling, like if it wouldn't be that big of a deal?? I dunno; there's no way I would've imagined M/S being the way it was on the show though, that's for sure. Anyway, obviously it's not that H/S wouldn't be a big deal, it's just that I'm skeptical about the nature and desirability of the emotional pay-off if by some miracle it occurred.]
8 - if there's a strong, central and subtexty bond with a best friend, I would never do enemy!slash even if I didn't ship the friend!slash-- it would feel like a betrayal.
Anyway, it's sort of funny 'cause I'm not a canon!whore in most ways people are [ie, I don't follow the letter of the law, am not that much of an authorial intent stickler, am not into gen as a rule, etc]-- it's just that I get this one vision of any given canon & I stick to it, and that vision is generally heavily influenced by... uh, the actual canon. So if I saw slash UST or het UST in canon, I'd be equally stubborn about it, fandom or authorial intent be damned. Generally though, I don't bother to 'see' anything beyond the text-- most things just don't -inspire- me enough to be participatory as an audience. Plus, I find I'm attracted to fanfic more than canon in terms of fandoms I wanna read-- so to convert me, you'd have to squee about fic/pairing meta [or vids!! never underestimate the awesome power of VIDS!!1] rather than the show :))
~~
What I noticed in my own preferences is a tendency to be like 'no way would I go for Second Best'; it's probably my perfectionist streak :>
Actually, I was reading a Sentinel fic where Jim overheard Blair actually confess his love(!!) to another guy, just an OC, and they didn't even -date- within the fic (it was an old flame), but I'd prefer an all-out sexual relationship as long as it wasn't that serious & didn't mean as much as the central one of the fic, y'know? It has to be #1. It has to be The Most Awesome Thing EVER, otherwise I'm like '...meh, I'll go make soup'. :> I really can't wrap my head around the idea of... I dunno, casual shipping (...for -myself-, I mean) :>
Actually, that's why non-romantic 'realistic' (ie, 'they're just fucking & it's not that big of a deal') H/D fics don't do it for me-- I mean, if it's not a big deal, WHO CARES??! [I mean, okay, sure, sex, but eh... I'm easily bored. Where's my soup, y'know?? Casualness = distractibility, and I'm supposed to be paying attention, right? Uh?] On the other hand, it's like, if it's -too- romantic, I'm like... 'you're pushing this too hard, man. Besides, uhhhh, who are these pod-people, anyway??' Heh.
So yeah, um... it may seem like I always go for the predictable pairing (which sort of allies me somewhat with the canon-thumpy people), but that's 'cause I'm just always GREEDY. I always want the most fic, the most UST, the most issues, the mostest MOSTEST, haha. Sometimes it's unclear what's mostest (like the B/J vs B/M pairing thing in QaF) because there are these relationships that are totally different but equal (ie, realistic! ...but who cares), but that's unusual; I suppose then my first experience/natural preference takes over, but fact is I go off my pairing loff if there's any real competition. I'm a very all-or-nothing person in a fictional sense; in real life, I constantly wibble indecisively and love four zillion things & people at once and never really want to choose one thing over another, but. THIS IS FICTION! Which has like, a responsibility to fill in the gaps, somehow... in my head, I mean :>
Er, yeah, okay, there was no point to this post! Unless! You want to discuss/tell me what -your- pairing patterns are, if you have some quirky pattern to it, anyway, rather than 'oh, I generally just like canon' or 'oh, I just like anything if it's hot' :D I'm equally fascinated by both mine & others' quirks (...sadly, I know) :>
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 03:19 am (UTC)Well, not so much (http://www.852prospect.org/archive/index/1year.html). And that's just one archive; here's also The Cascade Public Library, for one big instance.
I'm new to TS, myself, but I was surprised at how active the writers in the fandom are- established ones, and ones coming in from other fandoms (notably
Julia, insufficient impulse control in matters of fic recommendation
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 07:59 am (UTC)In terms of what fic I read, I tend to mostly read authors I've heard of in other fandoms or have 'seen around' (like Speranza, Julad, Eliade, Helen, etc) and the people they rec as well as the people who rec -them- (and thus will probably rec other things I might like), you know? I got a lot from Eliade's recs page. I don't like just reading through an archive, 'cause chances are I'd dislike at least 60% of the stuff, and that makes me lose my happy-glowy excitement :>
So anyway, what I meant to say is that anyone -I'd- ever heard of isn't in The Sentinel anymore, and just in general, random fans on lj that I come across don't mention it-- to me, that means a fandom's pretty over even if it's kicking out there somewhere. I could join, but I'm not much of a joiner-- I'd have to be swept away :>
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 09:34 pm (UTC)See, I fell into reading The Sentinel because
Julia, abashed.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 09:47 pm (UTC)I think I'm too impatient to read archives for fun-- I want to be pointed to the good stuff right away (which is why I go by rec pages, and then read everything by an author I like). In any case, having reading material is easy, it's just that's not what I think of when I say 'being in fandom', anyway :>
Also, I, er, got your 'from' as being [Unknown LJ tag], which is more amusing than stalkery, but still :>
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 10:17 pm (UTC)My alleged fannish function is to write fic recs for The S3 Message Boards (http://scubiefan.proboards48.com/), which includes a small TS recs area; unfortunately, this year I've been pretty unproductive due to too damned much reality.
Julia, hoping I can return to fantasy and science fiction in 2007
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 04:00 am (UTC)http://community.livejournal.com/newbieguide/12074.html
The slash archive is 852 Prospect. This page shows the latest stories as they're archived --
http://www.852prospect.org/archive/index/Week.html
The gen archive is Cascade Library. This page shows the latest stories as they're archived --
http://tslibrary.skeeter63.org/newarrivals.htm
Both archives have enough stories for several years of writing, and new stories are added frequently. Enjoy.
.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 07:51 am (UTC)Generally I'd have to be really desperate to read widely enough to stumble upon (*gasp!*) fanon-heavy fic or just plain fic I don't like, haha. So mostly I meant the majority of well-known writers (on lj... that I know of) have left, it seems like.
......I'm really going to have to start locking any post I don't wanna appear on metafandom, don't I. *facepalm*
Not your fault, of course, thanks for the info :>
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 03:45 pm (UTC)I meant by the writers I knew/heard of in fandom at large/etc.
Well, the authors you like are in the archives -- they wrote lots before they moved on to other fandoms.
But limiting yourself to only the writers you "know" is a severe constraint upon yourself. And it's not a fault of the time you enter fandom; there's only so much fic that half-a-dozen writers can produce. That's true even in the pro-fic world. I like murder mysteries. After I finish reading all that Ellery Queen and Janet Evanovitch have available, I can either pout that there's no more, or give other authors a try.
At least online, you can have stories without paying for them. A quick scan should tell you if the writing quality meets your standards. If not, back away. If it does, and if you like the premise, why not give the story a try?
To say, "I don't know that author, so I won't even try the story," is rather like saying, "Well, it's not Shakespeare; therefore it can't be any good." You may discover some new personal faves to follow.
Or get on
I'm really going to have to start locking any post I don't wanna appear on metafandom, don't I.
Yeah. Or ask for it not to be linked. OTOH, it's a good way to get a wider discussion going.
.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-23 08:16 pm (UTC)Anyway, it's not that I boycott the archives arbitrarily for some reason-- I just generally don't browse them randomly. And I do know they wrote lots-- hey, I've read lots already, and there's actually lots more on my to-read list I haven't gotten to. My concept of 'active fandom' was amorphous, really, but I get these... impressions, I guess? It definitely isn't all-or-nothing; I'm also not saying 'if it's not by Speranza or Eliade, obviously it sucks'-- it's more that's the community I stumbled onto first, 'cause so far these are the people making references to each other in Author's Notes and so on... it's really a 'feeling' on my part :>
The reason I was chagrined is because I generally wish I had some thought-out argument before having a 'wider discussion', you know (and 9 times out of 10, I haven't thought things out as deeply as I should've, but then I'm lazy) :> Like, usually I don't have a hard-and-fast point before I talk it over & figure out exactly what I mean, and if someone doesn't know me, they assume a lot more things, generally & it's a bit more uphill, so I spend more time going 'no, no, I'm not like that at all' than really having a fruitful discussion :>
no subject
On not writing a slash pairing " ... if there's no real meta point to it that I like in terms of character dynamic & it's mostly proximity & maybe UST [ex.: Angel/Spike ... "
I am glad to see this, because i agree. Now, tons of people write A/S, I have read a certain amount of it, some of it is quite well done and the writers have every right to do it. But I, personally, don't see much canon justification for it and am glad that there is at least one other person out there who may agree.
I don't see it because Spike reads (to me) not only straight, but also -- literally -- misanthropic. He despises his own gender while idealizing women. The only males he makes an effort to connect with are those who cannot possibly be his competition for women -- from the sadistic pedophile Marcus-the-torturer in his guest shot in A:ts Season One to so-homely-he's-cute Clem in late seasons of BtVS. There were attempts to "bi him up" in the final seasons of both shows, but they felt forced to me, as though the writers were pandering to slashers.
However, Angel has always read bi to me, including when he was Liam (note his arm around his drinking buddy just before he was turned) and when he was Angelus (literally getting off on torturing Giles in BtVS S2). Then again, I'm an Angel/Lindsey slasher from way back.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-29 11:44 pm (UTC)So umm... in that sense, I guess straightness would be irrelevant or in some circumstances, even part of the 'bigger meta point', if challenging the character's ideas about themselves would push the right buttons. I always thought Spike was mostly straight but potentially bi, same as Angel in that respect-- but this is partly 'cause I guess I see him as an emotional bottom in his hetero relationships as well. He may act tough, but he's so spectacularly love's bitch; and if you could get him over the hurdle of opening up that much to a guy, he's the type who'd go all the way in unraveling.
The thing is, I don't see Angel opening him up, pushing those buttons. They have different buttons, not romantic-transformative (meta) buttons. I dunno if that makes sense, but :>