[..and there are plenty of gentlemen bastards]

[reenka]

I know it's pathetic... and kind of sad... but I constantly think of love, though... other people seem to think of sex (or money? or both?) instead. I don't know if that's, um... an okay substitution? I'm always thinking of love or stories or both. Sometimes sex is involved, of course :D :D :D In both :D :D

Um. In this case it was precipitated by 'Sex Pistols' being reposted at yaoi_daily, and in the current issues, everyone comments saying they prefer 'the gentleman' new love prospect to the main character, who's, um, a bastard. Forget the fact that it's hopeless to anyone who's read even one other manga, like ever, so it's ridiculous to still root for 'the Gentleman'; it NEVER happens (so why bother?!) Mostly it's that I personally resent rooting for 'the Gentleman' instead when that's his only good point. He's nice to the guy he likes. SO WHAT?! Argh.

I don't think it's that I like or 'just forgive' bastards, but I don't see what's so bloody great about being sensitive... maybe it's because -I'm- sensitive, ahahahahah. (Which probably makes the whole situation even weirder, since I probably wouldn't get so wound up if I wasn't, obviously.) I also get so frustrated by the fact that while most people -like- bastards in the 'he's so hot!' or 'oooh, mean boy! better shape up!!' way, they don't tend to... uh, empathize with them. Thus making the audience pretty damn insensitive themselves, unless 'sensitivity' is the equivalent to only seeing the 'victim' in the obvious place, where the 'victim' is supposed to be. Moreover, love doesn't -have- victims.

In the end, maybe that bothers me most of all. That whole immediate placing of blame that's behind 'the Bastard' and 'the Gentleman' binary. I hate the categorical one-or-the-other approach, because it just doesn't have anything to do with reality -and- it's just bloody mean and hypocritical most of all. Love makes us all pathetic, makes us all heroes, makes us all victims. Why do people -have- to insist there are good guys and bad guys in these scenarios; why is 'the Gentleman' supposedly better when everyone -knows- you -really- want to choose 'the Bastard' and probably would in real life anyway? Why can't there be temporary, relative definitions that actually fit? ARGH.

So I skipped ahead and next chapter there's this quote by the guy they're fighting over (Nori), which made me feel better so I'm quoting it:
    It's because you acted so nice that I was mistaken! Don't be cold to me. I don't want you to be violent with me... but I don't want you to be nice... if you won't love me....

"Look only at me."

You're so cruel... how can you say something so misleading with such a straight face....

It's okay even if you're cruel... even if you're cold... or if you're rough... be so cruel to me that I become bruised and can't think... don't be nice.

I want a wave to come along and sweep me away without a word.

Not that I don't like fluff sometimes, but. Newsflash: love is cruel. That's why it's good.

Comments

[addictedkitten.livejournal.com]

Were you actually quoting that so I could cement my decision to never get into manga (because, my EYES) or was there some other sinister reason you had there?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

HAHAH it's BETTER IN CONTEXT :))
....no, really. Though this manga is really cracked-out and has mpreg and furries (like, people-who're-really-animals-but-not) and various and sundry insanity. Um. But some of them are straight (gay) smut and funny, too :> :>

[addictedkitten.livejournal.com]

HOW could that possibly work in any context? That's too trite for the journal entries I made when I was fourteen years old.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Okay, I see what you're saying, actually, but... I think the secret is the pre-existing emotional involvement of the reader (just like you'd need to watch a soap-opera for awhile before any event in it means anything to you). Once you're emotionally invested in the characters & their emotions, the words may be clumsy but the meaning still hits home. And the pictures also help a lot, I think :>

[addictedkitten.livejournal.com]

*squints*

Or maybe you are just a sucker for these types of things.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, see, that's what I said! 'pre-existing emotional investment' - sucker :D :D :D

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

I like the new guy for Nori. He's cuter than Kunimasa, and I can find absolutely nothing redeeming about Kunimasa's character. I'm sure he'll realize his deep abiding love the moment his ultimate seme-hood is threatened, but right now the new guy is way more appealing.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh, I really should actually think about what's 'redeeming about Kunimasa's character', 'tis true. On the other hand, it's the competition that bothers me, I guess? The need to be 'worthy' of love or whatever, like the uke is a prize or like there's some sort of logic to it (which... well, maybe sometimes there should be, granted). I think it's different 'cause I'm up-to-date on the series and Kunimasa is pretty screwed up-- all that growing up trauma with his crazy mother & stuff. He really has no clue... and eventually Nori realizes that Kunimasa's cluelessness & ultimate vulnerability is actually something that strikes his protective instincts; while Kunimasa acts so tough, really he's pretty much a kid emotionally, really underdeveloped, so he -needs- love and doesn't have a clue how to give it. And Nori has a need to give it, once he realizes he -can- receive it as well-- so it's not so stereotypical as Kunimasa just 'claiming' Nori (not that he doesn't).

Sometimes the semes really are useless turds, but with Kunimasa it just sort of takes a while-- this is the arc where that happens, too, so I shouldn't be this impatient, but I remember reading it initially and resenting the new guy 'cause he's so... milque toast? I was talking about triangles recently, and blacksatinrose said they work when you can really see what's differently appealing about both people, and in this case it doesn't work like that and it's not supposed to-- it's not really a true triangle 'cause Nori never seriously considers the other guy. His main function was just 'nice guy Madarame X, with cat pheromones' to get Nori going; it's just not enough to latch on to. I think the way people project their desires onto Nori (who clearly always and only wants Kunimasa) is what ultimately bothers me with any in-progress romance. Though I have no real non-spoilerish defense for Kunimasa, and even then, he later admits he's just 'not normal' :))

AND! Omg, I've been ...er... so offline last few weeks, I just realized it's your birthday! (Well, just past!) :X :X :X I wish I could write something for you :( Though if you have a non-H/D request, something might click :>

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

I'm really digging this manga, and I saw Kunimasa's already changing his tune a little bit. :D I get what you're saying about people projecting on Nori. I never for a minute thought he'd actually pick someone other than his seme (because anyone who's read even a handful of these things knows that ukes imprint on their semes to achieve a lifetime bond :D) but I can't help thinking that some ukes are gluttons for punishment and would be better off picking the other guy. Love may not be logical, but as a backseat driver I can be!

Non-H/D? Er...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hehehe they do imprint, don't they :> Sometimes there are actually mangas whose whole point it is to 'reverse imprint', but then it's like, 'but they never -really- imprinted, it was all sort of incomplete because... *angst*' :> But, in Nori's defense, I don't think he actually liked the punishment ^^;; He's actually got more sense than a lot of other ukes in that he thinks it through a bit when Kunimasa's brother (whatever that little kitty's name is-- Mana?) pushes him. Also, my -god-, the nice guy is boring ><;;; Not that Kunimasa's that interesting, but the alternative somehow seems even less exciting from a romance pov -.-;; If I were being logical, I'd say that Kunimasa/Nori has way more potential but they need counseling :> :>

Er... yeah. You must like -something- besides H/D.... or, well, Snape/Draco (I think?) which is actually just as difficult... H/S might be really weird, especially if I tried to write post-HBP o_0 HAHAHA the idea is cute though. Or, y'know, something completely unexpected; I think sometimes I do better with that out of sheer startlement :-?

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

Snape/Draco and Remus/Snape are my secondary pairings, but don't strain yourself. :D :D

[cellia.livejournal.com]

love is cruel. That's why it's good.

*disagrees so much*

That is the opposite (to me) of why love is good. Now maybe... in fiction... conflict is good. So unfrought love has a higher risk of being dull, but... that's not generally the endpoint I want when I'm reading a romance-y type thing. I want eventual connection and non-hurting your beloved and being good to them.

He's nice to the guy he likes. SO WHAT?! Argh.

I don't think it's that I like or 'just forgive' bastards, but I don't see what's so bloody great about being sensitive... maybe it's because -I'm- sensitive

T_T<---driven to emoticons by your dismissal of adherence to basic human social niceities. Nice is underrated, man. And there's also a difference between being sensitive to one's own feelings and being sensitive to other's. The 2nd is pretty rare. But yeah, the "gentleman" almost never wins in manga, so I'm trying not to get my hopes up. At least I can also almost certainly count on the fact that the "bastard" always really has a squishy sweet center and heart of gold.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, I knew that was an extreme statement because I even disagreed with -myself- when I wrote that, but... uhhh... I couldn't be bothered to fix it 'cause this was a rant and me being unreasonable was to be expected (you could tell 'cause of all the 'ARGH' and GRR stuff, ahaha). Anyway, clearly yeah-- umm.... oh yeah, non-hurting is the goal in the end, but this isn't anywhere near the end, so... I was just speaking in Reena!shorthand, where I meant a certain kind of 'cruel' (ie, visceral/intense/drowning/so-painful-you're-alive/tear-your-heart-out-even-with-happiness type stuff like the 'drown me' thing) and a certain kind of 'good' (ie, 'dramatic conflict in a story' or 'interesting', really-- what I meant was interesting). But also what I meant was me-- it was a personal statement where 'good' meant 'feels good', like... 'hurt so good'... or some lame thing like that ^^;;; 'Cause happiness only 'works' in fics if there's non-happiness to speed it along (for me).

Anyway, yeeeah, should really quit it with the Reena!shorthand... I've really gotten so sloppy... but can't bring myself to care ><;; haha

And yeahhhh, er... the 'what's so bloody great about being sensitive' = also iffy and emotional-outbursty of me :> I was more fixating on other people and how they're nice enough to like the nice guys in stories, but what's -really- nice is liking the not-so-nice guys. That was my real point. However, since I wasn't trying v. hard and just ranting, that point got lost in the shuffle.

Also, since it's love, what 'social niceties'? Heh. It's all context with me, baby... in general, I'm not for people being randomly cruel to strangers, but then Kunimasa is actually nicer to (male) people than say, Yonekuni. :> What I was -really- saying is that people aren't nice TO KUNIMASA :>

[cellia.livejournal.com]

I pretty much knew you were being all rant-y, but when you hit my hot buttons, I just need to rant right back. :D It's like "our dance" because we've prob had this same conversation before. And you're all but what's -really- nice is liking the not-so-nice guys. And then I'm all "the-not-so-nice guys are usually turds" bastard complex blah blah blah. And then I think we both come together to express our love for Domyouji or something.

(I actually just find Kunimasa kinda dull, not bastard-y, so this is all fairly tangential to Sex Pistols anyway...and I've read enough Kotobuki Tarako to know that she pretty much has like 3-4 archetypes and so I know almost exactly how things will play out. But I love certain lame romance novel formulae, so not a problem AT ALL. Also: happy ending almost guaranteed! woo!)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahah, yeah. And you're also right that Kunimasa isn't the most fascinating seme that ever lived, though I like 'im well enough, ahaha; mostly I like her dynamics more than any one character, which are yeah, not that original. I do have a special spot in my heart for mongoose!boy with his craaazy expressions (*points above*) and Yonekuni, hehe, who's pleasantly insane <3 Oh, and the David/Maximillian relationship from the latest chapters is a fave. With Kunimasa, I just... I think it's mean to rag on him partly -because- he's not even a proper bastard, or something. :-? Hm. He's just kinda naive & underdeveloped emotionally, which I think is kind of... cute? Heh. But he has some really intense scenes with Nori.

Speaking of bastards that are actually interesting... I feel like reccing you Manna's Administration series (http://www.mannazone.org/zone/admin/index.html). You -might- like it, if anything because it's both gritty and romancey (meaning, not tragic or anything-- happi-endo!). And the BDSM bits are really not over-the-top and fit well overall. Given, Toreth sort of transcends 'bastard' and goes straight into 'psychopath', but he kind of grew on me, because he's so unapologetic and because Warrick is definitely not a sucker, so their power games are actually interesting. I thought it was complex & more original than 'original slash' generally gets, so. Give it a try if you're not in too much of a sentimental mood :>