[camaraderie to romance: the dos and don'ts]

[reenka]

I've always been a little too obsessed with the comrades-to-lovers scenario (especially in queer romance but it's really any), I feel, but it's for good reason: if you're a fantasy/adventure-plot reader and you like your romance liberally sprinkled at best, you're often naturally blessed with an abundance of comrade-type friendships. It's really a bit ridiculous and slightly degrading to go the only other route, which is to have the main character meet their SO in a bar or a party of some sort and be like 'omg, they're so hot' and then not really hang out with them 'cause they have 'things to do' except at the end where they get maaaarried (and/or kiss dramatically).

    I mean, this is how fairy-tales and action-thriller films nearly always work, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck donkey balls. I don't need a couple to be friends first or whatever, but some sort of reasonably progressing relationship (even antagonistic! hey, -especially- antagonistic-- I dig it!) is better than riding off into the sunset with a barely-known acquaintance (like even with Harry/Ginny, I guess). I mean, even if it's a really hot acquaintance who kisses really well (and, uh, has a castle). I, personally, don't wanna even seriously date an acquaintance. Sorry, fairy-tale prince and/or people I don't know well. :/
    (And yeah, this is partly why I like fairy-tales like The Snow Queen and Beauty and the Beast: omg, they -know- each other! SCORE!)

    Man, speaking of emotional climaxes (which we weren't, but): having finished the second Nightrunner book, I finally get all the people who were sort of personally offended, almost, or at least frustrated as hell that the H/G romance in book 6 was so skimpily (flimsily? incompletely? sort of desultorily, even?) handled. I remember people saying that this is because we came to HBP with expectations borne of romance and character-centric fanfic, whereas JKR is writing a plot-centric work that uses characters & their relationships rather than being about them, precisely. I myself didn't care so much because I didn't care about Harry/Ginny (even if I care about Harry & vaguely like my -own- idea of H/G and Harry-romance in general).

Well... having read the 'romance' bits with 'Stalking Darkness', I have to say I have a very similar reaction: there just wasn't enough. I mean, in this case the book is definitely about these two characters, but also definitely focused on the stuff they -do- rather than the stuff they feel (which is secondary); however, this... emotional incompleteness is all the more striking with it being the two main characters, I feel. As if Harry and Hermione -did- get a romance, and yet it was treated little more in-depth than the H/G in HBP. I feel cheated, somehow.

Trying to puzzle it out... I'd have to say that it's just that I feel it's not... I'm tempted to say 'satisfying', but I'll go with to 'a complete arc', and therefore an emotional disappointment. Things don't feel 'right' to me if they don't progress right, at their own pace: so if things were going fast as blazes for a long time, and then the writer throws wrench after wrench in the relationship just to 'avoid the inevitable' and have the couple get together, I get pissed off. Similarly, if things were slowly growing from 'comrades with oomph' to 'deeper friendship with subtext' to 'budding romance in the midst of camaraderie & adventure'-- it's a total cheat to have things wrap up and come to a head in say, 2 days and then drop the issue and jump ahead to 'EEEE, SOULMATES 4 LIFE!!1'. Sorry, thriller-writers. :/
    
Of course you don't have to concentrate on the romance, but the scattered 'keystone' scenes should reach their-- well, climax. And the climax in a romance isn't necessarily sexual, but it does exist, just as it does in a plot-arc (where all the threads come together and the promise of the story 'explodes'). All that happened in 'Stalking Darkness', after 2 books building up to it, is a sort of... trailing-off point where it was clear this is the cusp and the first step (the 'opening' to the resolution) has been achieved. They'd resolved to resolve, which makes clear where things are going events-wise, but that's not an emotional resolution by any means, especially not when the next book picks up 2 years later.

And 'what's an emotional love-story climax?', you may well ask.
    At least, -I- may ask, heh. I feel like it's a lot easier to say what it's -not-, though. It's not the 'first kiss' or the 'first love-confession' or first anything, really, because it depends wholly on being the culmination of the couple's memorable scenes & the moments that came before it. A climax between major characters, whether or not we're talking about a love-story (I feel) should not only -nudge- them in a new direction (as was the case at the end of the second Nightrunners book) but actually have them arrive, the same way you'd need to 'arrive' with a plot-related arc.
    And, you know, I'm actually pretty curious as to any arguments you have to the contrary, whether or not you've read these particular books-- mostly 'cause I -want- to feel satisfied with this. It's just-- it doesn't help that between the last two books, we jump from 'promising beginning' to 'magically bonded soulmates 4evah!!1', with nothing but cliched references later to 'union of body and spirit', semi-telepathy and constant fucking. I mean... forget me-the-reader, but don't these characters deserve more?

With HBP and Harry in general, I still sort of feel it's not the same 'cause Ginny is a sidenote at best, and even if they -are- 'soulmates 4evah', that's mostly going to be left to flourish beyond book 7 (I imagine). I can accept that, so regardless of the less-than-deft writing, I feel I didn't miss much since the 'promising beginning' or whatever was the -point- here. With Flewelling... there's a whole book of romance's worth it feels like she purposefully didn't write, and that's hard to swallow. Sure, we can make the connection as the readers easily enough, but why?
    What used to be tempting, growing & accumulating half-steps in a hopeful direction before the 'pseudo-climax' for nearly 2 books straight became glancing asides with a heavy 'after the fact' feel. I can see why she skipped over the heavy romance, on the other hand-- because for those first few months, if she did try to have plot-type stuff happen to them, the romance would have to take more center-stage. Mostly 'cause when your characters are mutually crazy in love and fucking all the time-- even if other things are going on and you write no smut-- a writer's not going to get away without making frequent excursions into heavy territory and keep up a coherent narrative without constantly and obviously being seen as refusing to write certain things. There'd be visible holes.
    However! However, what this amounts to, basically, is a refusal or inability on the part of the writer to change or adjust the style of the narrative to fit the growing & expanding demands of one's characters.

I say this, and yet I'm also aware plenty of (usually great) writers do well enough combining romance and other relationship subplots with a major event-driven arc. I'm sure there are tons of books out there where the romance is built-up to and not dropped even though other things keep going on. Perhaps being able to do that is the mark of a more deft, emotionally piercing writer than Flewelling is or was at that point; it would require using not narrative space (or time) to explore but rather depth. The skill at showing-not-telling would probably have to be extremely well-developed in a way it rarely is in otherwise good novel-length writers (since it's usually sharpest in vignettes, but it's that same skill); I should probably know Flewelling is nowhere near that skill-level if she tries to cover up by basically coming back with 'well, they have a mindbond now' next book, which is practically code for 'SOULMATES 4EVAH OMG!!1... the end'.

It just sucks reading books thinking 'ooh, this is really good', and then realizing 'oh wait, not so good-- this writer is nowhere near really good, at least as yet'. I mean, the strength of the first book, I feel, was both in cohesive, interesting adventure-plot storytelling and slow, natural building of the central relationship. You know how in many adventure shows, the 'main couple' often just builds up to an 'opening' at the end, or just get closer together, but you see all this subtext and chemistry that is -bound- to explode at some point soon? That's pretty satisfying in itself, I feel, especially in adventure-thriller -movies-, but I think the thing is-- when you keep going, build more of a story and a background, you need to deepen the relationship beyond subtext/asides/etc or it begins to feel 2D-- and believe it or not, even adventure plots revolve in their interest around the human element.
    So. What happened was, the set-up never changed-- mostly-plot with lightly sprinkled relationshippy scenes-- but the demands of the deepening relationship outpaced the capacities of the still-shallow structure, just as the plot actually slowed down and got 'deeper' and more dependent on gradual build-up & multiple threads rather than the initial diverting adventure-type antics where the characters' growing camaraderie (with promises of more) had once worked so well. 'Growing' being the key word there, btw.

I think Flewelling tried to have her cake and eat it too, and it basically didn't work: she wanted adventure and camaraderie, except with romance (which I applaud and adore as an idea!), but without actually -having- the great bulk (literally, without writing!) of the romance. And dressing up romance as effectively the same as the early camaraderie doesn't really work for me; I just can't buy, on a deeper level, that you can 'just add sex' (which excuses you from having to write it & lets you merely say 'well, it happens'). So having jumped 2 years to where the characters act nearly the same with each other except with references to mind-bonds and sex-- that's a major, major misstep.
    In a way, I think that's what went wrong with JKR's (even less well-handled) build-up to romance as well. The books' structure worked well enough when the Trio (and Ginny, in OoTP) were comrades and friends, their relationship growing slowly and the adventures coming fast: that's the tried-and-true adventure book set-up, I think. But after awhile (basically, by OoTP), JKR's plot deepened and began to depend on slow development and older threads unravelling rather than quick action, and just like with Flewelling, this coincided with hurried filling in of the romance subplots, which made the whole thing feel muddled, suddenly cliched as hell and just incomplete.

I'm not sure, in the end, what this says about 'ideal' comrades-to-lovers scenarios; trying to think of 'official' instances of this, I can only remember stuff like Mulder/Scully (a similarly awful failure), unless you count some few fanfics or stuff like Star Trek's Riker & Troi or Babylon 5's Sheridan and Delenn. I'm not sure if they count as 'comrades' outside technicalities because they always had clear chemistry headed in that direction, and were merely delayed by the writers. Even so, I'm sure there are some good het comrades-to-lovers examples, which is why I'm bitterly suspicious that the reason you don't get the good stuff with the queer romance isn't the demands of the plot but the demands of the audience being squeamish. Which-- needless to say-- pisses me the bloody hell off at both society at large -and- the actual writer, thanks. GRRRRRRR. >:(

    I really really -wanted- to say, 'Flewelling's books finally gave me the queer fantasy-romance I keep looking for, and which exists aplenty with het,' but they haven't. I haven't even read many of the others because I know they're either depressing/angsty (like Lackey's stuff), purely subtexty (like the Fitz/Fool series) or established-relationship stuff (like Kushner's Swordspoint) which largely ignores the romance from the first. What I -wanted- would be the usual in a 'normal' romance: that is, usually, meeting --> build-up --> chemistry/angst/etc --> resolution/climax/happy-endo. I don't want to dwell on either the angst (having the romance only to have the characters separate or die a gory death), the chemistry (seeing as I don't need to look to published fic for smut) or the build-up (if it ignores the rest and flounders like these books). Neither, I feel I should add, do I want to skimp or miss out on any of these (angst is good! build-up is good! etc). *sigh* WRITERS. >:(

...And it really doesn't help that I'm now reminded that things -can- work like in the Basara manga, even though there's no comrades-to-lovers relationship (ripe for lovin' as Nachi & Hijiri obviously are). Of course, allowances have to be made for the fact that Basara is one of my favorite love-stories of all time and I consider 95% of its characters absolutely adorable and brilliant and think it's a shining example of the ideal of what fantasy-type plot merged with romance looks like. Um. Well, at least with every not-as-good book I read, I realize how utterly fucking amazing the great stuff is. :> If for no other reason than Basara is one of the very few stories where I love spending time with the all the minor characters just as much as with the main ones. Now -that's- talent.
~~

As an aside, I wonder if I'm the only shy/introverted-type person who feels... um, uncomfortable having to read the main characters constantly stuck in big groups (like, long stretches where they don't get time alone together or just... alone). It's funny, 'cause obviously I get people-tired in that way myself in real life, but reading Flewelling's third Nightrunner book, I actually find it happening sympathetically, even though the characters aren't really suffering that much. Especially since they're in a relationship and I want to see more of that, having them not only investigating/exploring like before but having less time alone than when they were first getting to know each other-- that's really backwards and uncomfortable to me.

...Though I'm actually a freak 'cause I get a sort of 'aaah, too many people!!1' discomfort just from changing povs with too many characters while I read, too. Before now, I just took it for granted that I'm naturally more interested with deeper-quality relationships with fewer-quantity characters/people (in real life as well), but I wasn't quite aware it was my introversion kicking in before, even while I read.

Comments

[agarttha.livejournal.com]

I am being articulate and discerning when I say 'Bleeeeeeeeearrrrrrgghh!!!' at the sight of H/G. I still can't read past the beast in the chest scenario in HBP without wanting to throw the tome at JKR's head. Why ? Why did she have to ruin a decent book with the worst-written romance? in history? Methinks she picked up one of the sues from a fansite and asked it to ghost-write for her. Blech!!!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Haha, I doubt it's the worst-written-- it wasn't even written enough to be worst-written. I mean, the Alec/Seregil was pretty bad and cliched, and they were main characters, but it's still not... it's just different (which was my point...). I guess it all depends what you put most value on in the narrative-- what you're reading for. It's hard to read a book -not- for its main characters, to me, but some people do-- and those people probably didn't care that Alec & Seregil didn't get their romance 'cause their acquaintance was having some fun. Same with HP... I bet some people barely noticed Harry :>

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

In conclusion: rivalslash rules, man.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I don't disagree. However, it's not the point ^^;

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

I was aware of that, emo kid. (hey, if you say emokid fast enough, it sounds almost like anakin!)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think I'm emo 'cause of my creeping insecurity that if people -did- have something to say about my actual point then they -would-, which means if they -didn't-, my actual point is stupid, boring or irrelevant to them and their cat and therefore I get defensive ^^;;;

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

maybe you're just too far ahead for us mortals. <3

hey, i did have something to say about hermione but that entailed mean things about harry so i censured myself; plus i had something to say about a big cast and how it's a borderline (?) requirement for me to say "great story" but you know how different i am with minor/supporting characters. it depends on the narrative, of course. if the main character is a douche, then you *have* to have fun w/ the surrounding cast, but... well, this is a secondary point. however, in naruto, you get the great balance of having a tight hero-journey focused on naruto but also solid, well-flashed (without derailment or page-wasting) supporting characters.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I also like to have a supporting cast that's all balanced and fleshed-out-- who doesn't? That's a great pleasure in Basara. It's not a requirement for me, and often enough when it's -not- that interesting or fleshed out, it's tiring for me to keep switching viewpoints and have lots of group stuff. The tiring effect isn't pronounced if I like the minor characters involved; however, if I don't like the main characters, minor ones won't 'save' me-- I'll just stop reading. That's too much centralized annoyance to handle. Most people/stories I've read with a great cast haven't had enough emotional depth and good enough characterization all around to be equivalent to a smaller-scale fic's insight-- I don't want breadth if it's at the expense of depth, but I'll take depth at the expense of breadth.

And that H/Hr point was really minor, as I don't think it fits with the main point of 'comrades'... I should really just stop using HP examples altogether 'cause it only muddles my real points anyway.

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

The tiring effect isn't pronounced if I like the minor characters involved; however, if I don't like the main characters, minor ones won't 'save' me-- I'll just stop reading.

See, I think that's the difference between me and you. I can focus more energy than the author on any given character, through my reading: I can give more to a minor character and less to the central. Plus, and more to the point, you don't take pleasure in deconstructing and exposing a fake hero, or decontruction in general, which I do.

However, with Naruto (which you won't read!!) the problem doesn't exist. All characters are flashed out in proportion to what the story requires, and it has both a great main character and minor ones none of which would tire you. You'd have your hero but also a great natural balance inside the world/narrative. Of course, you'd have to get used to Naruto and his people/Other-oriented self, but he's also very intuitive, which you might enjoy a lot. Also, growth made him lonely/separate/introspective to some degree. So, um. Read Naruto. But don't fangirl Sasuke.

Nah, the thing about H/Hr was cool because even though I loathe H/Hr, 1) at this point I loathe H/G more and 2) it reminded me of certain sides of Harry which made me happy. So, thank you! It was good for me.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I like more 'general' deconstructing, if you can call it that-- like those movie cliches I linked to, for instance. I like deconstructing 'movies in general' and discussing any positive or negative specific work I like, but in a general constructive framework-- so the deconstruction doesn't -overwhelm- the constructive build-up to greater enjoyment through greater understanding. Or something.

But yeah, it's really difficult to 'fight' the author -as- I read and divert energy; it would take self-control and dissociating my emotions/thoughts from the work-- not 'going with the flow' and being self-conscious, which ruins a lot of my enjoyment from getting lost in the book. I mean, I read to get lost, basically-- not the same thing as 'to escape', because you can get lost in something grittily realistic also, adopting the world for the duration of your reading and taking the main pov as your own (a sort of... VR experience).

Well, Naruto isn't the only good example of this-- Basara excels in this field also, and is more up my alley 'cause it doesn't have fights and the battles aren't really the point, and there's a central romance. I mean, it's not like I can only enjoy self-centered introverts (is that what you think??) I mean, Basara's main character isn't self-centered at -all-, and neither are a lot of other characters in stories I really enjoy-- I mean, I enjoy tons of different sorts of stories & narrators. I'm just not built for shounen, though I like it more in anime 'cause my reaction to visual-action-movement engages my 'ooh pretty *stare*' response. In reading, I just naturally pay most attention to relationships and get tired out by too much action/plot stuff without an emotional central relationship or a character with whose emotions I identify deeply...

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

Just to be a total pimp for Naruto... Naruto isn't what I'd call fight/action-centered either. In fact, what annoys me with fandom is this misunderstanding: no, what's at the core of Naruto it's his hero, his emotional ties and his journey. Well, I do get annoyed with people insisting on the ships (and ship wars) so much -- so okay, there's no big central romance either. To even that, there's one of the most homoerotic buddy/rivalslash ever, and I'm talking authorial intent here.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, if you read 5 chapters of Basara and like it, I'll read 5 chapters of Naruto, and if I like it, you could read 5 more of Basara-- like that, if you want :D :D

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I could read all of Basara even without liking it much -- but maybe you wouldn't enjoy the demolishing as I would. Ahahaha, kidding. Anyway, if you're cool with this then we could swap CDs. I'll burn you Naruto and you'll burn me Basara. How's that?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, if you want to go all whole hog and everything-- I mean, I have access to Naruto easily enough, and I've already sent you Basara through streamload :> But if burning 'em makes you happy or downloading is a problem then I guess I could :>

Anyway, this only works if you -like- Basara enough to read more after 5 chaps or a volume or whatever-- I really don't want you to force yourself if you don't like it just for a dare; however, if you -did- like it, I'd trust your taste and/or feel excited or obligated enough to try Naruto, see. That's how it worked in my head :))

this icon is dedicated to you

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

BBBBBUUUUURRRN BABY BUUUUUUURRRRN

yesss it makes me happy

(okay, then i'll burn you the first 5 volumes, even though it's just build up to the best part)

Re: this icon is dedicated to you

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHALKsfjalskfjlkdfj;lkasjjjjjslkjdfl;kjk

um. I'll burn it tomorrow, then. Five volumes is a lot o_0 Unless you think you can't judge by 5 chapters (I can usually judge by one, haha).

Re: this icon is dedicated to you

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

no you can't! naruto is uber-cute and meaningful from the start, but he only becomes sublime around the gaara arc.

Re: this icon is dedicated to you

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

well, this is still dependent on you liking Basara first :P hee!

Re: this icon is dedicated to you

[discordiana.livejournal.com]

you're like, emotionally blackmailing me.

Re: this icon is dedicated to you

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

ooooh, buuuurnnnnn >:D

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

The whole post was interesting, but I got distracted by Basara references! That is one of my all-time favorite series, too. Have you read her new series, 7 Seeds? It's another post-apocalyptic ensemble cast thing, with lots of cool secrets and mystery stuff like Basara, and I very highly recommend it if you haven't checked it out yet.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee! Basara's latest scanlated chapter was so yummy too! :D I've actually downloaded several of the scanlated chapters for 7 Seeds but haven't gotten around to reading them... which is odd 'cause I really enjoyed her other 2 published mangas in English. On the other hand, part of what hooks me with Tamura's stuff isn't the ensemble cast (which is a nice bonus) or the plots but the main characters and their dilemmas and personalities and such. Like, in Chicago, I really liked the main two relationships a lot & they immediately hooked me, where there didn't seem to be a similar fast hook with 7 Seeds. But I'll definitely try it sometime soon :D

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see that. It actually took me a while to really get into 7 Seeds. I read the first three vols. and was thought it was good, but wasn't dying to read more, and by the time I picked it up again all the way up to vol. 7 had been released, and I read them all in one go and then was *dying* at the end because vol. 8 won't be out until like June or something, and even if I started buying Flower every month, I would be missing chapters between whatever month I started buying and where vol. 7 ended. So I have to just wait it out. >_<

[(Anonymous)]

Camaraderie. :)

Well written.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

D'oh! Ahahahaha.
Um... and... thanks? :>

[evalangui.livejournal.com]

Oh, god, Basara, how i adored that manga(and never finished reading it because when they licensed it in the States they stopped scanning it v.v)but you are right, there was action and romance and though at first the main characters met separately in a place where no action/adventure could take place later both merge.

More to the point, I think you are right, that might be the reason I prefer other genres to adventure, I have always cared more about the characters and their motivations and internal debates than if they save the world or not and bad romance can just make me throw a book(I would have thrown HPB but for fandom after the monster in the chest, for all the foreshadowing his attraction to Ginny has one could have easlily had thought he wanted Dean instead).

About the crowds thing, it appears to me that 1) if there are too many people it is really hard to flesh them all out and 2) as I'm also an introvert my own characters usually spend at least some time alone and it's rare the occasion where more than three people are in scene together(Which make me think i'm may be overdoing the introversion).

I get the message it's to gradually develop the relationship but I would really like a real numbered Dos and Don'ts list to keep in mind because getting how it should be it's not getting how to do it. Just an idea :P

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well... heh... the truth is, it's still being scanlated-- currently, MangaONE (http://www.mangaupdates.com/groups.html?id=217) just finished volume 19, actually, you just have to get it off irc. :>

I think I'm coming from the opposite direction, because as with many things, I've loved this genre (fantasy adventure) so much, I've become extremely picky. If I don't care for it, generally I just don't read it and don't think about it at all, haha. Great adventure stories -are- about the characters and also have fun things happen a lot and cool mysteries and just exploration and wonder-- like Star Trek except less lame. I think I have a pretty high tolerance for both adventure & romance, which is why you know Flewelling messed up a lot more than JKR if I'm so upset :>

Hmm, yeah, I should've really spent more time with this & did the numbered-list thing (sometimes I do do that). I think it's not so much 'to gradually develop' but to develop according to the character's own pace (which may be fast or slow) and not take short-cuts like suddenly introducing a cliched mindbond, skipping over the crucial 'climactic' resolution, just focusing on other things the characters are dealing with instead and so on. My big 'don't' is the 'don't forget the emotional climax'. To -have- an emotional climax, you need 'foreplay' and some sort of set-up, but in adventure stories specifically, the foreplay isn't generally a problem-- there's usually tons of subtext and chemistry that just comes from banter and working together as a team. So I meant to say, in this sort of story, the focus on introspection and just talking things out-- or the moments where 'nothing happens' except bonding stuff and kissing or arguing or whatever-- that becomes even more important.

[evalangui.livejournal.com]

Volume 19? wow, I think they stopped in IRC when I was they were in the 34 but the sole fact they are still scanlating is consolation more than enough, I shall have to re-read after all :)

I was thinking about it generically and to point out that relationships should be naturally(gradually in the scale of each character) passed was obvious but thinking about it with all the action going on it is more difficult to do that and the list thing wasn't a criticism or anything, i was trying to think of one myself and was unable and more or less wondered if you could.

You said you hadn't found a perfect homosexual couple that was well developed in this type of fiction, may i ask which are/is the heterosexual ones? :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, for a well-developed couple in an action series, Basara is one example. I suppose you could say The Ice-Cold Demon's Tale (shounen-ai) is also in that range, but it wasn't quite what I was talking about. Most of the stuff that comes to mind are either mangas or TV series-- that is, not books but rather serials; perhaps that format is better suited for the situation (adventure-romance). As I mentioned, Deanna Troi & Will Riker or Sheridan/Delenn come to mind, but there simply aren't a lot of books with a male/female team, really. I'm actually curious how Flewelling's The Bone Doll's Twin & sequels books will develop, because that does have a male/male-that-turns-male/female friendship/romance, and this series is better written than her gay one, so. Maybe.

I'm trying to think of something, but as I said in the post, nothing was coming to mind even though I feel like there -should- be some examples merely 'cause of the huge amount of material at hand. Um. It would probably be difficult for me to say since I don't often read many-volume fantasy series, and this would be hard (maybe impossible) to do right in a single volume, if anything because if you just spend like, 200 pages on 'set-up and subtext', it'll feel like your normal romance build-up and not camaraderie or whatever. Camaraderie itself would need a 'stage' or a whole book if not more (with subtext). It's possible this is even more rare in m/f-eventual-romance (unless you're talking a TV series where 'delayed satisfaction' is the name of the game) because most writers will just naturally address romance and either hint towards it or rule it out if it's a heterosexual couple, whereas with a homosexual couple there's more suspense and the uncertainty is allowed to build.

I think I could make a list more easily if I was thinking about more examples than just the Flewelling books; I was making some generalizations, but in the end I was really just talking about the Nightrunner series, actually. I could give you a list about what she should've done in -those- books, but it's not the same.

[evalangui.livejournal.com]

It's one of the major reasons I don't like it if relationships aren't seriously considered. Now I've remember a case where I thought it was well done, The Dark Materials trilogy by Phillip Pullman(I have a But to this statement that would be a huge spoiler and that wouldn't make me stop reccing the books but bothered me)

I will be checking these examples you mentioned, thanks for everything :P

[caeliluminar.livejournal.com]

Here via daily_snitch. I don't really care about relationships that much (because het bothers me and slash has the issues you discussed), but I did enjoy reading this. However, your mention of Basara manga distracted me. Could you please tell me where I could download it the easiest way? I should be able to find it on my own as well, but if you know a site and want to help out a potential fan...

[caeliluminar.livejournal.com]

Whoops, didn't read the above comments. Is it only available in IRC? I've tried leeching manga on IRC but, ehm... am not very good at it. I do everything the way the IRC tutorials tell me to do, but alas, no luck.

...And actually, I just checked a few bittorrent pages, and apparently it's not as hard to get as I thought. Nevermind. I'm being silly.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, there are other places (streamload request boards) you can find it, but bittorrent is as good of a bet. Though with irc... this (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/emmbee/leech/index.html) is a good tutorial for manga/anime specifically; it's really not that hard once you get the basics down. :D