[UET all the way, baby]

[reenka]

People say that writers have a driving 'theme' that influences all their work, something far-reaching and constantly being reshaped and revisited. I think my theme is probably 'longing'; it's what I'm most invested in writing about, what keeps me at the edge of my seat, what ultimately seems most satisfying when well-portrayed. And of course it's all the better if it's hopeless, desperate longing, something that tears you apart and fills your every waking moment-- but then, it's not really longing any other way, right? And I don't mean just romantic longing-- there's many types, like nostalgia for instance, which is longing for the past, or loneliness which is longing for contact.

    Mostly, I'm thinking about this because of a comment on this recent post on slash (a subject which I seem to never tire of seeing redefined), where koimistress says, there's a long dramatic tradition wherein the audience sympathizes with the One Who Longs. And I was like, ding! Well, mostly because anything that makes me feel more normal is yaye, and also because I -have- always sympathized most heavily with characters who longed, were driven by the many shades of desire. And of course Draco is one such character-- and Harry in a way, though what he longs for is in no way centrally Draco to my mind but rather a family.
    I guess, also, I've been frustrated with the seeming necessity of making Harry the One Who Longs post-HBP because he doesn't seem very suited for dwelling in it-- he's more driven to action and/or manfully suppressing it if it interrupts his life like with Sirius.

Possibly, you could make a case that desire-- a central drive-- is related to longing, and is the bedrock on which dramatic fiction is built. So of course we as readers are drawn to the characters with both the most conflict and need unfulfilled. If you started working with a character who basically had what they wanted in life, where would you go with that story?
    Also, perhaps you could make a case that slash & stories about m/m attraction would be more wholly and explicitly about this Desire because of the sheer difficulty and the obstacles in pursuing it even currently in the Western world. Slash sort of-- purifies this theme, or maybe just strengthens it. Gives it that dramatic push that you would need outside circumstances for in m/f romance and even in f/f stories because of the implicit greater ease of communication in those.

All of this is related to seeing slash as "emotionally transgressive", what with men showing obvious un-repressed emotion, which seems much more on the money than that whole thing with it being -sexually- transgressive. I must admit I've always loved this smarm-centric argument because I think I've always gotten this emotional kick from slash-- or rather, close m/m relationships, friend or foe-- way before I knew what slash was. The 'sexual glow' is what gives it that overt UST and it's definitely yummy, but what really grabs me is the UET-- Unresolved Emotional Tension :D

With Harry/Draco, the reason I keep harping on it is because I think the pairing ultimately packs the transgressive punch on several different levels-- the standard m/m, interpersonal conflict and societal conflict as well. It's not like it's conflict personified or anything-- it's just that there's such a huge emotional transgressiveness involved, sort of like Romeo & Juliet except with like, (more) fists and cocks. (I mean, I just love how -wrong- yet right it would be for Harry to touch Draco's cheek tenderly. You just can't beat that sort of cognitive dissonance, man.) Yeah, I mean, I blame Shakespeare for everything :>

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hehe, well, I don't mind sharpening my thoughts on this either :> I think it would be more correct to say that while I probably do fall into group 2, I find some subtext more subjective than others, which makes everything complicated~:) Also, the reason I'm more in group 2 now than before is that I find many group 1 people abusing their priviledge and talking like they're on crack-- case in point, the H/D-is-canon tinhats. It's like, the boundary between text and subtext shouldn't get so fuzzy that the squee overshadows the actual reality. There is no way H/D is canon in the more literal sense, even if you mean 'obvious subtext' like there's 'obvious subtext' pointing to R/Hr in the early books-- or S/R for that matter.

I think there's a test similar to the Turing Test in AI for this slash subtext-- basically, if it'd be 'canon' if you made one of the characters female, you have lift-off. I think there'd still be -tension- if Draco was female and more people would notice, but it wouldn't be like 'oh yeah, for sure'. I also think the whole Harry-obsessively-stalking storyline would've gone down differently if Draco was a girl; they just act like such -boys- (rivals, in fact) it's hard for me to seriously apply this to them. With S/R, it'd be much more questionable if Remus was a girl-- like... the hug, the living together, the-- well, it would be 'odd' and subtexty. As it is though, I wouldn't say it's coded homosexual in any obvious way. To me. But then I never thought close friends = gay.

Sometimes I just feel like-- something like Arthur/Lancelot, say-- there's just something there. But you can't pin it down by definition. And sometimes I feel, especially in things written entirely about a male bond, like a friendship, that the relationship is so intense and central that it can easily be said to contain sexual subtext along with all the other facets. I think it needs to be many-faceted and intense for me to seriously say that, though. In the latter case it's less 'subtext' and more 'preslash', though the boundary is rather delicate, I admit. But when there's that lingering touch, that too-long stare that never goes anywhere, that vigil by the bedside, that 'passionate platonic love', that obsessive adoration-- basically, okay, when you have Draco Trilogy Harry&Draco, that's a very good example-- that's when I say-- yeah, 'objective' subtext. I set a high bar, but there you go, that's where I stand. :> Basically, if the relationship is -that- close, I think there's no way they'd be squicked or turned off by the other, and it's just that it hadn't occurred to them.

Otherwise, what you have is ambiguous tension, which makes it very slashable but not actually subtexty in any non-subjective way, because it can be explained away unless you're set on having your gay goggles on. I mean, I would swear on a Bible that Trilogy!H/D are in love whether or not they ever know it; with canon!H/D, it's just-- not the same, y'know :>

See, see, that platform-for-longing thing is true for me especially, yeah. Which is why I'm all 'woe!' that people don't get why I made Draco suffer and pine away in my fics. If I made him satisfied, he'd just be drowning in mundanity and tea-parties. Somehow that always seemed a much more horrible end than a more dramatic, flagrant instability. Like, if you're gonna burn, burn in style. Though that's more of a personal philosophy :> But yeah, I make 'im suffer 'cause I like 'im :> In a sadistic way ^^;;;

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

*continues sharpening thoughts, with great pleasure*

I think there's a test similar to the Turing Test in AI for this slash subtext-- basically, if it'd be 'canon' if you made one of the characters female, you have lift-off.

This is a great starting point, because it's so clear and definite, and it helps precisely locate our disagreement. The thing is, I don't think it's an adequate test! And I think describing why I think that will get us to the heart of the issue. :)

I think we could go back a bit and agree on the definition of something we might call "squeeable subtext." That would be subtext where there's a friendship, a bond, a clear positive infatuation that we could easily imagine becoming sexual. And certainly this kind of male friendship happens all the time, and pushes the boundary of homoeroticism even if it doesn't actually become sexualized.

This model of attraction is also totally consistent with your idea about "unresolved emotional tension." The pattern seems to be -- there are strong positive, potentially transformative feelings that are at first either unrecognized, or repressed for conventional reasons, that need to be liberated. So obstacles are overcome, desire is acknowledged, and acted upon, and fulfilled.

Your "if it were a girl" test seems designed for exactly this sort of case. This sort of relationship is ripe and ready for slashing, no questions asked.

The thing is, this is not the only pattern by which homoeroticism impinges on the emotional life of guys. In a way, it seems to beg the question, to already assume a slashable world, in which any homoerotic feelings between guys would necessarily be positive, affectionate, even pre-romantic (however much the story may play with their temporary repression or denial.)

But I think that at least as often, guys experience homoerotic feelings in a radically conflicted way, as unruly, threatening, destablizing. This is the darker side of desire, so to speak: eros is not something simple and unified and liberating, but something alien erupting into your otherwise-integrated personality, something that threatens your disintegration rather than facilitating your growth and flourishing.

After all, this is the basis for homophobia -- gay people are not just a mysterious "other," they're a directly personal challenge to a certain set of guys who want to be straight but who experience, either on a transient or a long-term basis, certain feelings they believe need to be rejected to maintain the coherence of their own personalities. And so they disapprove of others who have "failed" to make a similar decision.

So positive UED, intense friendships, ravishing and seductive infatuations, are only one face -- the more benevolent face -- of desire. Where I think your "if it were a girl" test falls short is that it assumes that sexual attraction is a good and desirable thing that can and maybe even should lead to romance -- and that the "oh, we're boys!" issue is just a bump in the road to overcome on the way to happiness.

But sometimes, the undercurrent of attraction leads not to infatuation and friendship but is itself a direct catalyst for more intense hostility and avoidance, because of how radically threatening it is. That is going to lead to an entirely different sort of pre-slash situation than the one your model presupposes. And I think that even many "fists and cocks" slashers tend to domesticate, to romanticize, to underestimate the resulting tension. The tension is treated as an obstacle or barrier, but one which is "obviously" made to be overcome, and the characters will be happier once that happens.

But there's a tougher case where the tension really is problematic, where the attraction really is disruptive and a threat, and there's no assurance at all that going along with it is a sensible decision. Rejecting the temptation may be so fundamental to a character's identity that it's almost inconceivable for them to give in -- and hard to imagine what would happen if they did. Yet, the temptation is still there, and has to be reckoned with in any analysis of the character. Getting from that case to slash is a whole other project.

[continued . . . ]

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

but I think that at least as often, guys experience homoerotic feelings in a radically conflicted way, as unruly, threatening, destablizing.
Ahh, now I'm all inspired! I mean, of course, I write H/D, I don't tend to actually write friendslash (though I read lots of it). I'm all about the negative-type destabilizing tension-- even (especially?) in het romance. Just recently I was ranting about the relationship between the guy in Hana Yori Dango, who was an asshole (insensitive, violent, selfish, dense, can't relate normally to others, blahblah) and how the girl should just dump him and/or they should drift apart because that sort of thing will 'never work' and there are too many obstacles. And I always HATED that way of thinking because I think there are many more uses for romance than just the 'happily-ever-after' stability, marriage & babiez, in gay or straight relationships.

However, this stand is slightly dishonest on my part because it's actually an excuse and while I really enjoy the destabilizing 'dark' side of desire, I really want -that- to turn into something positive and that's actually what I'm most obsessed with. I think that's a uniquely girlish/female pov, because damn but so many shoujo (girls') comics in Japan revolve around this dark/brooding/insensitive asshole who wants/demands attention from the girl (who's pure/innocent/strong) and she -should- resist him & maybe even tries but eventually succumbs. And the point is that in the end she changes him & the nature of their interaction & they wind up with a 'normal' relationship, possibly a dependent one. The point is, I-- and many girls, slashers or not-- certainly know/understand the power of 'dark' desire and this whole destabilizing force aspect. We often feed on it and try to tame it-- which I think most men hate (or think they hate, muwahahahah etc).

Anyway...
Rejecting the temptation may be so fundamental to a character's identity that it's almost inconceivable for them to give in -- and hard to imagine what would happen if they did. Yet, the temptation is still there, and has to be reckoned with in any analysis of the character.
This is also true, and it's something a lot of slashers/romance writers reject and avoid as a rule (and uh, I'm also guilty). And yet it really pings me pretty hard because this heightened challenge just makes me want to fight harder and harder, till I'm in a virtual frenzy (and this is the root of why I'm so bitter about most/all H/D writers, 'cause who really deals with this in a positive manner and not nihilistically?? But I want them to, argh! And so on.)

In other words, perhaps H/D seems tailor-made for guilty encounters in closets and escalated tension and denial, and yet that sort of 'realism' will never be enough for me as a reader, will always feel incomplete. Realism be damned in this case. I dunno, I feel guilty as hell for saying it and also guilty 'cause I'm often 'justifying'(?) assholish behavior patterns with this and saying the emotional abuse should continue, but I can't help it.

Basically, yeah-- you're right, I was missing the other type of attraction, and this is odd since I tend to write about it the most. I think, though, it does require certain 'goggles' as I said (like you mentioned about having the pre-existing conception of what boys are like). In other words, it may be there, but if you're claiming authorial intent, then you're in hot water again, y'know? But I definitely think if you're -not-, then you can easily get away with saying this could fit within canon (or not). Most people don't see it unless they're (tinhat) shippers, whereas even non-shippers would see the 'normal' sort of subtext.

I love that bit about resisting the temptation being fundamental. So true! Man, I try to tell people this about Harry & they don't believe me! Why! Argh~:)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

[. . . continued]

So with that distinction in mind, we come back to our differing takes on "canon authorization" for H/D. I completely agree with you that there is nothing in canon that suggests a positive infatuation or schoolboy fascination between Harry and Draco. On the other hand, I do see an involuntary erotic charge to the relationship that adds to the hostility and tension, and I do see (and here I expect we differ) explicit textual suggestions for this. There is no suggestion in canon that their relationship can or should lead to romance; but there is an erotic element that is potentially interesting to the slasher.

Basically, I think that at some level, in HBP at least, Harry feels an attraction to Draco that is deeply disturbing to him and that intensifies their conflict. Again, this attraction is not portrayed in any way that would meet your test, because it doesn't lead to a positive fascination or interest; it is not even something that Harry overtly allows himself to recognize. But I think there are pointers in the text that suggest that it is a factor in the intensity of Harry's hostility to Draco. And they're very discreet, and yes, recognizing them depends on having a prior theory about how these issues work between guys, but I don't think they're any less real, or that they're purely subjective, on that account.

I've cited some of these markers in prior discussions: the robe shop scene in HBP (which really does take on some interesting implications if you apply the "if it were a girl" test), the way seeing Draco in sexualized situations drives Harry up the wall, the peculiar tone of Harry's obsessive curiosity about what Draco is doing in secret. We can hash through this in more detail if you have the patience for it. :)

My overall take on canon!Harry is not by any means that he's overtly sexually interested in Draco. It's that in the early books, he's found that Draco gets under his skin, pushes his buttons, for many reasons, and he's fought to resist that emotional vulnerability. After OOTP, I thought he had succeeded. But in HBP he seems to be falling back into the trap, and my hypothesis is that he's feeling a sudden, barely conscious, and most unwelcome attraction that's really messing with his laboriously constructed defenses. I think those sorts of involuntary attractions happen all the time and aren't remarkable, and don't necessarily lead to anything. But if it's there, it's one basis for a slashy appropriation of the characters.

Really, the fun of slashing a case like this is that it poses the question, "What would happen if this character decided that his feelings were a good thing rather than a threat? Would it work? Would the whole tenor of the relationship change?" But the charge from doing this depends on the validity of the assumption that there's some negative and unwelcome sexual tension there to begin with. It's a very different case from the sort of overt and pleasant infatuation where your criteria would "authorize" slash, but I think it's still a valid one.

So again, I think that in theory there are more potential kinds of slashability than your model admits. You can slash relationships that show clear positive infatuations, and do it relatively unproblematically. Applying this to H/D is a bit of a reach, but one that you can still have fun with as long as you don't call it canon-based. Or you can slash situations where there seem to be unwelcome and disruptive and disturbing (to the characters) homoerotic undercurrents, which is where I would place the most canon-legitimate sort of H/D. Or, finally, you can slash situations without regard to whether there's any tension at all, which is what I would call "playing with H/D dolls" -- and a lot of the weakest kind of fluff falls into that category.

I think either of the first two cases can be called "canon-authorized." But that label is possibly less important than laying out precisely what justification is being used for slashing a pair of characters.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

My overall take on canon!Harry is not by any means that he's overtly sexually interested in Draco.
Well, see, that's really what I'm talking about when I say I hate it when people say H/D is 'canon'-- I assume that's what they're saying (and I think sometimes they are! I don't know!!) and that drives me up the wall. I really want to bite something with how stupid I find any such suggestion. However, I don't have any violent impulses towards to notion that he has repressed interest which is a -factor- in his hostility rather than the overall -explanation-. This is why all those fics set in HBP where he basically stalks Draco -because- he wants him make me so pissed; it's blatantly ridiculous and makes me want to smack all H/D shippers who buy it and squeal 'omg so canon!!1' upside the head. But then, I'm not much better than Snape when it comes to what I see as stupidity & I tend to overreact... so I'm never as hardcore in any opinion as I appear.

I think Harry definitely gets 'pinged' by Draco in terms of bodily awareness, like a -charge- of sorts. This isn't something I entirely trust to be canon, since 'my' Harry is so interested in Draco, therefore I may give myself a larger margin of subjective error than necessary; I'm always v. concerned with deluding myself, y'know?

Basically, the reason I'm this sensitive is because -all- the fics I've -ever- read don't deal with this the way you describe-- in a realistic fashion. So I've become very bitter and resentful of even coming close to seeing slash in canon. Basically, even the most IC H/D longfics I can think of-- say, Amalin's Transformation & Eclipse, both have Harry 'interested' in Draco from the start in an unrealistic fashion, even if they think it's subtle. It's really never subtle -enough-. It's never slow-developing-of-awareness/painful/halting -enough-.

With Transformation, Harry suddenly gets hot and bothered the summer after 5th year while watching Draco dance with Pansy in a club, and pretends Tonks (who he's dancing with) is Draco, or something like that. That just really despirited me from reading further in a 'canon-extrapolative' fic. A few days later he has a wet dream about Draco (that he remembers). In Eclipse, it's much slower, but even there at first meeting, Harry's hands tingle like there's 'an electric jolt' when he touches Draco's hand while being tricked with a portkey. Immediately I was like 'this isn't happening'. Not because I refuse to believe in H/D but because it's so easy & immediate, not an undercurrent but a very real current, easily meeting the 'test' where it didn't before (and this is like, a month after canon). So I balk and become a canon-nazi :> Such is my lonely fate, ahahahah.