~~ crackfic vs. AU: taste the rainbow

[reenka]

I feel my quest to be a total mindless squeeing fangirl keeps getting derailed. But only some of the time-- which I think can be narrowed down to whenever I'm not reading manga. You know, those people who say 'it rots your brain' as if that's a bad thing are just kind of uptight, aren't they :>

Anyway. Not least because I'm writing a couple myself will I or nill I (mostly nill I, but what're'ya gonna do), I've been thinking about AUs and their definitions.
    This got sparked by winsome1's post about a negative review to her fanfic, which basically has Harry run away from home after 5th year and stay in a whorehouse, after which he became a stereotypical gay boi, called people 'sweetheart' & couldn't resist Draco's manly charms.

    Now, the reviewer and the author seemed to actually agree that this set-up is implausible-- the difference being that the author said she never intended to write a 'plausible extension of canon', and wondered whether she should've warned for that. Of course, all the comments to the entry reassure her that no, warnings are for uptight losers (though not in so many words). And in a sense they are, 'cause people should really be clever enough to figure out when something is a crackfic.
    Heavy mention of rentboys, Veelas, soul-bonds, most Medieval torture devices, and possibly sparkly green hair and purple eyes should all be dead giveaways. Most Harry/Draco fluff should probably also fall into that category (then again, definitions of fluff will differ: mine involves most PWP non-hatesex smut, fic with free usage of given names, weeping!Draco and possibly kittens). ^^;; But honestly I see 'crackfic' as using any trope, scenario or genre (like fluff or hurt/comfort) and taking it far beyond the realm of canon plausibility (unless someone out there really wants to argue something like, 'but why couldn't have Draco been sexually abused and then become Harry's soulmate-of-DESTINY').


My issue isn't really with the question of warnings, but with the implied definition of what makes an 'standard' AU (truly a wholly different universe) as opposed to something set in the same universe but with a shifted canon timeline, as compared to crackfic (where anything goes). Basically, I object to the concept that AU = anything goes. No, my friends, that is what we call crackfic. Saying fanfic itself basically implies that 'anything goes' is true in a sense (I guess), but at a certain point I do wonder what's the point of actually calling Joe and Bill Harry & Draco, anyway. Ahem. Unless it's a crackfic, where generally the point is cracked-out amusement and/or porn (and lo, but porn has been mentioned & all is forgiven).

    And naturally, it's a pet peeve of mine when people predictably say, 'but all slash is AU'. It's a neat little dead horse argument, I'm sure, right up there with Hitler mentions in terms of online fannish arguments (that is, slash = AU = end of debate). Even so, I feel like stating for the record that if nothing else, this entirely destroys any reasonable scope for an AU definition (by making the label apply to all fanfic by that measure).
    There really seem to be two distinct types of AU: stuff written as canon-plausible but with an alternate or truncated (pre-Jossed) timeline & stuff written with the canon characters in an original setting. Everything else is OOC, not AU, and in fact, even new-universe AUs don't -have- to be OOC; I've seen them be IC (though not in HP, and admittedly it's pretty difficult).

All in all, I really wish people who wrote crackfic admitted it and/or said they don't give a damn without having to somehow imply all fanfic swims in the same pool & is necessarily crackfic just because it's not actual canon. Alas, I suspect this is a lost cause.

Comments

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

I'm writing a couple myself
I'm sitting here in a very encouraging, thumbs-up manner. I sure am. :)!

OH YEAH. Word to your last paragraph.

Also? Speaking of crackfic! As soon as we read HBP it's gonna hafta be you & me & our crackbaby. It MUST be written. I strive to one day have a compendium of crackfic. With your help, I feel I can succeed!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh, this made me think of two of fiendling's icons, namely this one (http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/22982223/26754) & this one (http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/8217847/26754) :D :D :D heee :D *appreciates in a woeful omg-it's-never-gonna-happen-is-it sort of way* :>

And yeee! I'm glad you still wanna :D The crackbaby has been gestating so long, I figure it's gonna be a two-headed horny monster when it gets birthed. And not surprisingly, fiendling has actually written two-headed!H/D, eheheh.

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

omg-it's-never-gonna-happen-is-it
What? Your longfic? Talk to me, behbeh! And, AHAHAHA, I'm glad I remind you of creepy old men, Reena. I mean, it's a comparison that needs to be drawn far more often.

I totally still do! I've been writing a crazy lot of H/D lately...well, mostly ideas & such, but knowing me, half of it's crackfic, haha. And so! One day! Soon! When at last we strike with our crackfic of glory, the world will not know what hit it!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, it's mostly that I keep putting off writing more & the countdown, it breathes down my neck (and as usual with pressure, I avoid and find excuses to say 'but this first' and 'but that first', like actually, I mean to read your fic first, etc). Also, it's hot & sticky & WOE. :))
...But I like creepy pervy old men in cute icons :P You'd make a smashing old man. I'm surprised people don't tell you that more often.

WHEE!! :D :D OUR CRACKFIC OF GLORY SHALL BE LIKE A COBRA!! A COBRA STRIKING, ER... WELL, JUST STRIKING INTO THE hearts PANTS OF MEN!! AND WOMEN!! AND OTHER SMALL-- COBRAS!

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

Don't worry about the countdown (I say with great conviction)! You could put off reading HBP for a bit, you know. I mean, if you wanted to get more writing done and felt like it'd be easier that way...? And, as ever, write if you want/what you want/when you want. Obviously I'm always around to talk to if you want to yell about what a bastard it is. :)

YES. It'll be GREAT. I want wedding fic. I want letters fic. I want bad first time fic. I want lines like 'Potter, I'm going to get you for this!' and 'Yeah, well, YOUR MUM!' I want it ALL. I aim for the sky! And stuff.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'll prolly end up postponing reading it ^^; Though it'll be tempting. I'm always late with all deadlines, so I really shouldn't be surprised, I guess~:)
Though actually, it's not really a bastard-- not nearly the way the DE!Draco fic is, the one with the 47398743 twists. -.- I dunno -what- crack I immediately get on as soon as I think about that fic, but it's a scary strain, man. I think it's that my post-OoTP fic is pretty straightforward & linear, only covering half a year, while the other one has lots of flashbacks & covers something like 5-6 years ><;; Le sigh.

...But yeah, I really wanna get the post-OoTP one done 'fore I read the book 'cause I really don't wanna lose all touch with my old characterizations & stuff. Though honestly, all this time after reading OoTP, I've prolly gone off the rails anyway :>

HEE! DRACO THE CARTOON VILLAIN!! <3<3<3
There's just something about your brand of crack that makes me wanna have its babies ♥
SKY-WRITING BAD FIRST TIME WEDDING NIGHT FIC!! >:D

[stellabelle.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry the DE fic is a strain. :( I definitely know what you mean. It's like, HAVE TO FINISH! NO, WOULD RATHER DIE! Or...something. Um. I send you encourage-y vibes, not that that helps. But yeah...postponing reading might help so you can keep your characterizations uninfluenced and consistent with what you've been writing, you know? But! I know you can do it! *cheers*

OHMYGOD BAD FIRST TIME WEDDING NIGHT FIC! Heehee! Oh, is there anything in this world that is grander? ANYTHING AT ALL? I'M NOT SURE IF THERE EVER COULD BE. I'm so highly amused! And at this ungodly hour and I am so sick and look very pitiable and have been reading questionable fic for the past several hours and have been traumatized by it on numerous occasions but somehow--SOMEHOW--thinking of Draco in his wedding dress and pouting and realizing he's going to have to PUT OUT if this marriage is going to WORK makes it ALL BETTER.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hehe, I have 'issues' with longfics prolly first & foremost -because- they're longfics & my puny little brain isn't suited to that sort of longterm work-out. Um. I'm likely to (eventually) persevere, of course, but my own laziness & the frustration of always self-editing like a mofo gets to me sometimes :> But! The cheering is much appreciated :> :>

OMG AND NOW WE COULD HAVE CROSS-DRESSING!POUTY!DRACO AS WELL :D :D :D Poor Draco, getting Harry to marry him JUST TO GET SOME, and woe, he's a whiny scaredy-cat who's afraid of Harry's BIG BAD GRYFFINDOR COCK >:D :D
...possibly there should be a way to make sheep involved somehow. Hmm. :-?

[balfrog.livejournal.com]

OMG AND NOW WE COULD HAVE CROSS-DRESSING!POUTY!DRACO AS WELL :D :D :D Poor Draco, getting Harry to marry him JUST TO GET SOME, and woe, he's a whiny scaredy-cat who's afraid of Harry's BIG BAD GRYFFINDOR COCK

TEASE!

now one of you, deliver, plz plz plz plz!!!!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hahah, I just realized... er... I meant 'strain of crack' not 'strain on me' :)) :))
THAT'S BECAUSE I'M A CRACK DOCTOR BIOLOGIST!!1 oh yes.

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I'm particularly interested in this discussion as I was that reviewer. I'd like to point out at this point that I left that review back at the end of October, according to my extremely recent check, and I'd just like to state for the record that I don't think that I've ever left another review that negative, since coming into the fandom last summer. I didn't mean for it to come out that rant-y at the time, but some of the underlying thinking behind the entire premise of the story were part of the bee in my bonnet there.

First, starting from the end: I'm a professional musician; most of my closest friends are gay mine. I know for a fact that my friends, at least, spend a lot of time trying to get people to understand that gay man does not equal woman. To me, if you're going to stay remotely in character, then Harry's a pretty solidly non-feminine boy, and when an author claims that he's "getting too masculine", it bothers me to see that squashed, both from a canon perspective but more particularly from a gay rights activist perspective.

Secondly, I have no problem with AU. I've written some, too. AU to me means different setting/premise, same characters. I had a look at the other reviews left since mine and noted that quite a few people mentioned how extremely out of character the characters are in this fic, one even going so far as to suggest that Harry and Draco are pretty much original characters. I concur. I have no problem with original fiction; I'm a published author of it, myself. I have a problem with original fiction borrowing other authors' characters and borrowing their names. This fic isn't AU; it's just out of character.

Writing fanfiction, in my own opinion at least, means you've deliberately chosen to write in someone else's universe. If you're going to go the route of writing veela!Draco or vampire!Snape or any of those other plot stand-by's, then half the fun is in making is plausible. If veela!Draco is still a bitchy, selfish Slytherin with few noticeably redeeming qualities - and yet is strangely attractive, [insert H/D plot device of choice here], and the author makes it work, that's great. I have no problem with standard plot devices, either; it's always interesting to see if people can find new angles to make it work. Plot cliches are usually popular for a reason, though not always. My point on this one: I didn't buy it. I gave it ten chapters' worth of chance to change my mind and it didn't do it. To me, saying that you're deliberately ignoring the characters already set into motion by the original imagination behind this universe is a problem. I have no qualms about saying that I have a real problem with that attitude. And yes, I think that if you're deliberately writing a fic with every single character in it grossly out of character, that should warrant a warning.

The thing is, too, with this fic, I seriously don't think that it's intended to be crackfic. And even if it were, the best crackfic is the sort where it's funny because of some truism it mocks, aka using The Lubricating Charmtm* in a parody, etc. - funny, because some variant of it happens so often in slash fiction. If it was just a random, new spell, it wouldn't be funny.

*credit goes to cmere1 for that one, in her Harry/Remus crackfic.

Also for the record, in case it's not clear, I'm not attacking your discussion on this topic even remotely. Just backing up my opinion and, frankly, sticking by it. Hope this wasn't offensive to you. :) It certainly wasn't intended to be.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I believe I stated that the fic was OOC rather than AU-- that was kinda my point :> I wasn't really going into my opinion of the fic itself, though yeah, it did offend me, moreso because I can't stand femme!Harry than because omg-canon-rape or any queer issue stuff. The feminization of boys & men in slash is a long-standing issue and -lots- of writers (...most writers, actually) do it to some degree, though usually not so spectacularly. I've read a -lot- of fic, and... well, a lot of times it's worse. I've grown um... philosophically accepting I guess.

I think I have my own definition of crackfic that's a bit wider than usually used (in the 'parody' sense), because I couldn't think of another term for fic that was using OOCness intentionally for fun. The author claimed to use the OOCness intentionally-- whether or not it was meant as humor seems irrelevant, if anything because the majority of say, Veela!Draco fic doesn't try to be funny either.

I guess-- while I enjoy the outlandish premise of rentboy or Veela Draco at times, there's no level of 'plausible' extrapolation that'd make it work for me. All Veela fic to me is basically going to be intentionally OOC by virtue of the writer choosing to write Veela!Draco, even if he's still a snarky bitch, simply because it's-- well-- cracked out and/or ridiculous/silly/outrageous as a premise and that's it's appeal (much like femme!whore!Harry). Most people like it -because- it's not canon, at least in part. Most people who read/like Veela!Draco fics don't really go into them expecting ICness, and 95% of the time, they don't get it (certainly I've never found an IC Veela!Draco fic, especially with an IC Harry... but then, I have extremely tough standards as to what's really IC and usually fics fail as soon as they metaphorically cut the first corner). For one thing: Draco being strangely attractive to Harry without build-up and angst and Harry finding Draco disgusting/boring/ugly for awhile first? OOC to me. He's not hot, snarky or sexgoddy, in Harry's pov especially; he's a pinched-faced, whiny, pathetic little twirp. Um. Not to put too fine a point on it ^^;

So I guess the question of 'is it okay to disregard canon and write whatever' is... something I've ranted about before & didn't feel like going into this time. Clearly I am really picky & don't appreciate sloppy writing, but at the same time I realize that some people take fanfic 'seriously' and some... don't, and that divide will always create misunderstandings & friction. That debate itself is kind of a dead horse, fannish argument-wise, so I was avoiding it~:)

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure. This all works for me. Sorry if I wasn't clear on stating that I realized you knew it was OOC rather than AU - I was half-deliberating during that whole spiel up there as to whether I should actually post it to the author's journal rather than here, so I may have strayed from the point a wee bit. I was arguing "alongside", rather than against, if that makes any sense. :)

The whole deal with going with one of those cliches (which I certainly don't seek out, btw) is just to see if anything about it can be made plausible enough to follow - just to see if the author can lure you in, somehow. I agree that rentboy fic is awfully difficult to buy, too, but if Anise and Jex write it, I'm in. There are authors whom I believe could write Harry/Dobby and make it hot. Disturbing, yet almost convincing. It's almost a game, to see how far you can stretch the characterization and make it work before the strings come undone. I do see character as a multifaceted thing, in RL and fiction both. Some stretching permissible. And necessary, even, for most slash. :) But there's stretching and there's ignoring the fact that there ever were strings.

But back to your point, about the division between people who take character interpretation and canon really seriously, and people who just faff about and do what they like. To some extent, and I'm definitely including myself here, we all do a bit of the second. Just create the scenario we want and go with it. But homage to JKR of some sort should be a prerequisite. And that's not a humble opinion at all. In my books, that's the definition of fanfiction.

God, I'm ranting again. Sorry. :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think it's just... I draw a line between 'cliche' (something like... um, 'Draco reconsiders being a Death Eater 'cause Voldy killed Lucius' or 'Ron freaks out and is vaguely homophobic at the idea of Harry with Draco' or 'Draco join the Side of Light and yet is used as Voldemort's ritual sacrifice under the full moon' or 'Lucius spanked Draco but good and this made Draco lead a double life', etc) and something like soulbond!H/D, love-potion!H/D, polyjuice!H/D, rentboy!Draco, Veela!Draco, vampire!Snape, gay-studmuffin!Harry, or say-- snarky-sexgod!Draco (who is crackficcy while snarky-self-controlled-sophisticate-top!Draco is just plain OOC).

I guess I see a difference between merely overused and/or ill-advised or lame plots & outrageous or ridiculous plots which will never make sense to me as -canon plausible- even if I enjoy them. Basically, unless you have realistic build-up (v. hard to do with say, rentboy fic but shaggirl is the only one I know of to do it), rentboy!H/D is crack or just kinkfic. It's not just cliche (overused, lame, predictable)-- it's... cracked out. Even if it's not humor, if that sort of set-up is done seriously, usually I'd say is mockable as over-the-top lameness (but is still on crack). The exception of shaggirl is basically 'cause `Orouboros' doesn't focus on its kink/cliche/crack as its driving force; it's driven by character rather than plot-device or kink (hotness) factor. This is rare to nonexistent in most kink/crackfic, and just plain missing in any crack oneshot I've ever seen.

And yeah, I'll readily admit that stretch-room (with strings) as defiitely my ideal and I see it as the point of good fanfic writing; but even so, a lot of fanfic writers seem not to care about quality so much as kink/hotness/fun & that's their choice just as it's mine to mostly avoid them :>

[cercaluna.livejournal.com]

what's the point of actually calling Joe and Bill Harry & Draco, anyway

Or Harry & Allan, when it comes to that . . .

Mostly I just agree with you. AU doesn't mean that anything goes. Word. ♥.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee :D I can never quite settle just how hardass or how accepting I 'should' be to be most reasonable :> I could've ranted for ages, but these days I'm all, 'well just label you crack, dear' :D :D ♥

[balfrog.livejournal.com]

You know, those people who say 'it rots your brain' as if that's a bad thing are just kind of uptight, aren't they :>
Yuh huh!

(I seem to be on idiotic!commenter mode these days - am swallowed up by work in a not-so-good way)
but back to you on the nuances of crack!fic. I actually don't like this apellation much, as the reviewers seem to take this as a derogatory cover for anything that doesn't seem stodgily canon. Any flights of funny or ridiculous becomes crack! as if it has no tangential connection to any kind of psychological touches that lets the character hang together. But then again, I think I'm kind of grumpy about my own reception so don't listen to me.
:P

off to make up a lesson plan. BTW, malafede pushed all my buttons with her fic yesterday, when I was too crazed out to tell her so.

[ex-ella-bane358.livejournal.com]

BTW, malafede pushed all my buttons with her fic yesterday, when I was too crazed out to tell her so.

All my buttons were pushed too. Gah. The frog finds all the best stuff to read :D

Crackfic and AU's and canon tight stories -- they can all be good or all bad. Plenty of canon tight stories are dull, plodding and pointless. And some of the most engaging stories are cracky or AU. Yeah, I know you already know this, I just like to say it too. I remember reading that story on Skyhawke -- it was the first whore, girly, and mpreg I'd ever read. I got hit all at once. At first I was like whoa what is this? I didn't know LJ existed yet and I'd exhaused all of Fiction Alley's R-rated fics. It's not a story I'll ever seek out and read again, but it was a bit of fun.

Different degrees of OOC exist in every fic -- it always comes down to interpretation I guess. I'm picky too in some ways. I don't like to see soft Harry ever. I mean, I like him to be capable of love but I don't want him wimpy. And I like a lot of sex. Yeah. It used to bug me when some LJer's are like well just read porn then. Eh, they don't get it. I want Harry Potter porn! And I need to believe that it's Draco going at it with Ron or whoever.

It's funny whenever I chat with my sister about slash (she's a huge fan of the HP books but doesn't really get why I like slash) and she laughs when I tell her about canon nazis and fluff and crackfic and all the other terms we throw around here. The first thing out of her mouth is always, but it's slash, so of course it's AU -- it doesn't matter how canon you make it, right? So I sigh at her and then she speculates about season two of Veronica Mars.

[balfrog.livejournal.com]

I still don't know what pushes my buttons - but that craving for rentboy!fic, veelas, mpregs, crazy ongoing war dystopias, girly!Draco, yeah, hehe. It's all int he execution, yeah?

OMG, wimpy Harry is something I just can't take either - but wimpy Draco, o yum!
:D
and the porn just isn't it - right? otherwise I could read all that good Snarry and Maruader fics.
:D

-will always remain,
an unrepentant Draco reader
♥

[ex-ella-bane358.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know!! I can't read any Sirius fic or Maurauder fic. But I'll read anything with Draco! (

Wimpy, whiny, needy, pouty, pointy Draco all the way please :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh it's all right, that was me being mindless to start with, too~:)) Actually, I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, and possibly I never did ^^;;

I can't think of a better term than 'crackfic' for fics written to be intentionally OOC and/or implausible... um, can you? I don't mean it in a derogatory way, 'cause I love my crackfic, but... um, it also annoys me when people write crackfic and then say but all fanfic is like this, or all slash is like this, or -someting-. There -is- a separation between wacked-out antics & plausible canon extrapolation, and it's helpful, I think, if only to keep people from being pissed off at one another. Or something.

Doesn't make one better written than the other, just makes their goals divergent. Not all ridiculous scenarios are crack... depends on the execution, I think. Like, I dunno if shaggirl's rentboy!Draco fic is really crack 'cause it's believably executed & the over-the-top scenario doesn't seem to be the point. I think if the -point- is the ridiculous set-up, it's crackfic. If it hangs together, then it's good crackfic~:))


AHAHAH and I'm sure malafede is happy to hear that, since apparently you realize she stalks my journal ;)) :D

[malafede.livejournal.com]

ahaha i don't know what to say to that. it's just the angst that makes me a stalker.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

:))

here from Metafandom

[pinkpolarity.livejournal.com]

After reading the post *and* all the comments, I still don't understand what your definition of "crackfic" is. (Also, unless I'm vastly mistaken, it's a fairly new term. I've only heard it in the last year, and never in my primary fandom.) Are you saying that crackfic is silly, intentionally funny fanfic (which is how I have always seen the term used) or anything you think is implausible? And what if something is written seriously and is plausible to the writer and not to the reader?

Re: here from Metafandom

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

As I told frogslayr,
I can't think of a better term than 'crackfic' for fics written to be intentionally OOC and/or implausible
...So yes, basically. It's a new term, but I suppose it makes intuitive sense to me, from the expression 'on crack' to refer to something/someone that's acting wacked-out or ridiculous. It -can- be silly & 'haha' funny, but I usually don't see that as much as 'messed up premise' type of funny, which isn't really intented to make people laugh. Sometimes people write 'badfic' without any unusual intentions, but the premise is so outrageous I'd still call it crackfic. As long as the writer doesn't seem to take care to have things dovetail/deal with canon characterization/universe in some way and in fact some really incongruous scenario/element is intentionally used, rather than trying and failing, I'd say it's crackfic.

If something is fully plausible to the writer but not the reader, it's badfic, not crackfic. The two things often blur. Some, depending on what they look for in fanfic, would say crackfic -is- badfic. The distinction usually comes through in the obvious usage of insane but common fanon plot-devices and popular-yet-obviously-wrong characterizations (like making someone have wings or be a sex-god). It's also valid when the writer (like the one I linked to) is clearly not caring about canon plausibility.