![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaIt occurs to me that (most often post-Hogwarts) fanon!Draco is usually a Gary Stu by the following definition: it's not that he has no flaws (though there's the omg-special eyes/hair/body/powers, which would be possibly fine by themselves), per se, though often he's been indeed scrubbed clean of such nasty things as arrogance and pettiness and (inconceivable!) outbursts of the foot-in-mouth disease (not... not Draco Malfoy!), but that often enough other characters (i.e., Harry) don't react in a believable fashion to those flaws which remain. In fact I've only seen Harry boggled & disturbed at Draco's wacked-out changes (and not omg-so-impressed) once, and that was in Resonant's `Transfigurations', which was all by itself enough to endear that fic to me immediately, Kitty!McGonagall nonwithstanding.
I think that's some sort of basic fantasy-fiction principle of keeping the all-important 'realistic consequence' clause to unlikely or sudden developments. So! If your aunt, for example, overnight grows a great big orange nose (or possibly you come back after 5 years to find this to be true)-- leopard-spotted, for instance-- you don't go, "oh, what an interesting color this evening! this really complements you, Auntie! well done!" No, you go, OMGWTFLOL!!1 This makes the reader able to identify with the character's reaction, thus lessening the blow of Teh Weird or in other words, some really outlandish change having occurred.
In the end, perhaps I can best liken my reaction to the phenomenon of new-and-improved!Draco (post-Hogwarts or not) to the many people who went 'wtf??!' at the new-and-improved Ginny in Order of the Phoenix. Here you could contrast her with Neville, who also underwent some changes but we could see them happen gradually throughout the book, and people's reactions shifted accordingly; Ginny, on the other hand, was changed clumsily & halfway retroactively. Meaning, while one could see where this character could have come from (and for some readers, that was enough), it was still a bit ridiculous that the others (basically Harry) just accepted this change without any real difficulties adjusting or 'wow, I still can't believe she's like this' moments.
Usually, you get this new-and-improved!Draco, and what happens? Harry's like, 'omg Draco is so different... how intriguing! how fascinating! I can't help but be strangely yet inexplicably attracted to the new-and-yummy him!' and then, possibly, '*angst*'. And as a reader, I'm like, 'Harry! Harry! wake up! it's Malfoy! Wake up!'
And I think this gets into the question of why people write about a certain pairing; and perhaps the assumption we have that because we're reading a fic labeled "H/D", of course Harry will be attracted to Draco. Of course they want each other; after all, isn't that what we're all expecting, and what we'd most often believed while writing the fic? So in another sense, it would be a sort of discontinuity, an unpleasant jolt, if Harry did react negatively (or 'realistically') to new-and-improved Draco; after all, wouldn't that go against the implied point of the ship? Isn't the point that 'we believe Harry should-- and therefore does-- want Draco'?
Well. That is the question, I think: in a given fanfic, do your goals and biases as the writer (and in a more meta sense, a reader) dictate how the characters act & react, or do the characters themselves (no matter what your interpretation of them) dictate those biases and generate the direction and flow of the story?
I mean, if the point is that you, the writer, believes Harry wants Draco, then Harry simply doesn't need a very good reason to do so besides 'omg Draco is obviously so hot/cool/sexy/yeay'-- that is, obviously to you, sure. Harry... well, who cares about Harry, he'll come around (does he have a choice? of course not!) Therefore what we have is a sort of meta fic; the characters exist to justify whatever goals you set for them, or otherwise to entertain. Their inner integrity extends as far as it allows the desired result; in other words, the ends justify the means. The underlying philosophy (or meta, I guess) basically comes down to: author over character, which is similar but has distinct differences from 'kink over character'.
I suppose that's where I feel I part ways with many ice-prince!Draco fics, at base: not in any particular interpretation, because a good writer can sell any interpretation of a character, and that's what fanfic is about. It's all about whether it feels like the fic (and the author by implication, in this case) is giving the characters a real choice as to whether he gets to want the other character or not, as to whether he finds his personality & attitude appealing or still pretty disgusting. It's all centered in that process as one writes; whether a writer (and probably also shipper) leaves open the door for uncertainty-- that central doubt of 'will it all work out?' & 'is there a really a chance?' that gives stories a sense of real romantic suspense.
A lot of H/D writers and OTP writers in general tend to have a great fondness or even adulation of one of the characters involved (in this case, usually Draco); that's perfectly normal as far as I can tell. A lot of us also believe that these two characters should, in fact, be together (or perhaps that they shouldn't: that can also be the inspiring bedrock belief); usually that they fit one another best and that they somehow illustrate an ideal that's important, either in general or in respect to the HP books. However, when applied to the actual writing of a story, this sort of romantic acceptance & belief (or disbelief!) both strengthens it and weakens it considerably, I think; strengthens because it allows the writer the patience to follow through and write until the positive end-goal is accomplished after whatever imagined hardship, and weakens because it basically predetermines the fic from the start and allows it no breathing room to really grow & surprise either the reader or the writer.
Let's face it: labelling something as being written for "H/D" or "S/R" tends to assure the reader that those two characters will at some point feel attracted to one another (leaving aside the unrequited love fics, which are starting to feel most authentic to me).
I think I ship H/D in particular at least partly because it's nigh impossible; because it's so difficult and so fraught with challenges. Given, I also ship it because they're cute together, are passionate and snarky & have fascinating many-layered conflicts-- but it's those conflicts, those intrinsic forces threatening and surrounding them that create that sense of hardship in the first place. Somehow, even after reading who-knows-how-many dozens and probably hundreds of H/D fics, I'm still not convinced it can work (or vice versa), and that's why I'm still interested enough to try.
In an interesting contrast, I ship what's often considered a 'boring' and predictable ship (Sirius/Remus) for similar reasons: there's all that betrayal, death and the boundary of time separating them, so it's rather challenging to imagine how it can work in spite & in the midst of all that, even for a little while.... And yes, perhaps all this is really dependent on the attitude of the shipper rather than the ship itself, that's what I'm saying.
I'm the sort of person who'll be excited when you list all the reasons ship X can't-won't-doesn't work. The more you tell me Hermione will break up with Ron after a month (because clearly Hermione needs a morenerdy intellectual man to be her equal-omg)? The more I want to see it happen. And the more you tell me Harry & Hermione are omgsosuited and wouldn't drive each other mad and it would be really quite nice? The more omg-bored-out-of-my-skull I feel. If, in fact, someone made a case for how Harry & Hermione would drive each other bonkers, I'd be interested! And yeah, I suppose that's another way of saying 'Reena is really contrary' and also, romantic tension = hot!
I really don't consider anything to do with human interaction all that predictable, even if similar things keep happening in cycles, over and over again. You can never be quite sure how another person (or character) will react, and that's enough to keep anyone on their toes. However, I get the feeling that most people don't read romantic fiction looking for that sense of frantic suspense but rather for reassurance; for reiteration of what they believe they already know: so-and-so are good/snarky/sexy together, the end.
So what am I saying? (Ah, the usual question.)
I'm saying, I guess, that I think the root of my fannish discontent has had to do less with the specifics of whatever characterization (though certainly top!Draco can annoy me and make me go WHYGODWHYWHYWHY), and more to do with that OMGWTFLOL reaction that strikes me at whatever changes because it doesn't strike the other characters. And it also has to do with that sense of creeping romantic certainty that isn't based on any real bedrock within the fic; I mean, I can't imagine myself finishing most current WIPs except maybe Underwater Light and Eclipse (...and actually also Plague of Legends and Love Under Will, heheh) just to see whether (not how! not when! whether!) Harry & Draco are, in fact, omg-MFEO-4evah this time.
It all comes back to the purple nose, dude. And the polka dots. Can't forget the polka dots.
I'm also saying Fiona's `The Way Things Are' is like, H/D-as-I-see-it in a nutshell <3<3<3 ...Fatalist? Meeeee? Neverrrr! If anything, 'cause my personal-fanon!H/D song is Ani's `As Is'; 'cause yeah... my ultimate dream? Is Harry understanding that Draco is an asshole who hides behind stupid excuses and pretends he's okay when he's not and lies to himself nearly all the time and you know... that's okay. He's not alone in that. And... imagine having no illusions about someone and loving them anyway; maybe I'm an incurable romantic after all, but yeah... I think that's what True Love is all about, and besides, otherwise it all feels like a great big lie that's bound to come crashing down sometime. Harsh Reality 101. I'd even say that it's only after you admit to yourself that your beloved is deeply flawed and that's all right that you can really love them deeply and it grows beyond infatuation.
But... I'm just not a believer by nature, if by 'belief' you mean unquestioned faith; so I wouldn't believe in a friend 'cause I know they're 'good'-- I'd stand by them even though I know they can be not-so-much. Actually... that might be part of what is usually misunderstood, considering I know I sound so certain, except I'm not. That's me; never certain about anything. :> Keeps things interesting, at least.
I think that's some sort of basic fantasy-fiction principle of keeping the all-important 'realistic consequence' clause to unlikely or sudden developments. So! If your aunt, for example, overnight grows a great big orange nose (or possibly you come back after 5 years to find this to be true)-- leopard-spotted, for instance-- you don't go, "oh, what an interesting color this evening! this really complements you, Auntie! well done!" No, you go, OMGWTFLOL!!1 This makes the reader able to identify with the character's reaction, thus lessening the blow of Teh Weird or in other words, some really outlandish change having occurred.
In the end, perhaps I can best liken my reaction to the phenomenon of new-and-improved!Draco (post-Hogwarts or not) to the many people who went 'wtf??!' at the new-and-improved Ginny in Order of the Phoenix. Here you could contrast her with Neville, who also underwent some changes but we could see them happen gradually throughout the book, and people's reactions shifted accordingly; Ginny, on the other hand, was changed clumsily & halfway retroactively. Meaning, while one could see where this character could have come from (and for some readers, that was enough), it was still a bit ridiculous that the others (basically Harry) just accepted this change without any real difficulties adjusting or 'wow, I still can't believe she's like this' moments.
Usually, you get this new-and-improved!Draco, and what happens? Harry's like, 'omg Draco is so different... how intriguing! how fascinating! I can't help but be strangely yet inexplicably attracted to the new-and-yummy him!' and then, possibly, '*angst*'. And as a reader, I'm like, 'Harry! Harry! wake up! it's Malfoy! Wake up!'
And I think this gets into the question of why people write about a certain pairing; and perhaps the assumption we have that because we're reading a fic labeled "H/D", of course Harry will be attracted to Draco. Of course they want each other; after all, isn't that what we're all expecting, and what we'd most often believed while writing the fic? So in another sense, it would be a sort of discontinuity, an unpleasant jolt, if Harry did react negatively (or 'realistically') to new-and-improved Draco; after all, wouldn't that go against the implied point of the ship? Isn't the point that 'we believe Harry should-- and therefore does-- want Draco'?
Well. That is the question, I think: in a given fanfic, do your goals and biases as the writer (and in a more meta sense, a reader) dictate how the characters act & react, or do the characters themselves (no matter what your interpretation of them) dictate those biases and generate the direction and flow of the story?
I mean, if the point is that you, the writer, believes Harry wants Draco, then Harry simply doesn't need a very good reason to do so besides 'omg Draco is obviously so hot/cool/sexy/yeay'-- that is, obviously to you, sure. Harry... well, who cares about Harry, he'll come around (does he have a choice? of course not!) Therefore what we have is a sort of meta fic; the characters exist to justify whatever goals you set for them, or otherwise to entertain. Their inner integrity extends as far as it allows the desired result; in other words, the ends justify the means. The underlying philosophy (or meta, I guess) basically comes down to: author over character, which is similar but has distinct differences from 'kink over character'.
I suppose that's where I feel I part ways with many ice-prince!Draco fics, at base: not in any particular interpretation, because a good writer can sell any interpretation of a character, and that's what fanfic is about. It's all about whether it feels like the fic (and the author by implication, in this case) is giving the characters a real choice as to whether he gets to want the other character or not, as to whether he finds his personality & attitude appealing or still pretty disgusting. It's all centered in that process as one writes; whether a writer (and probably also shipper) leaves open the door for uncertainty-- that central doubt of 'will it all work out?' & 'is there a really a chance?' that gives stories a sense of real romantic suspense.
A lot of H/D writers and OTP writers in general tend to have a great fondness or even adulation of one of the characters involved (in this case, usually Draco); that's perfectly normal as far as I can tell. A lot of us also believe that these two characters should, in fact, be together (or perhaps that they shouldn't: that can also be the inspiring bedrock belief); usually that they fit one another best and that they somehow illustrate an ideal that's important, either in general or in respect to the HP books. However, when applied to the actual writing of a story, this sort of romantic acceptance & belief (or disbelief!) both strengthens it and weakens it considerably, I think; strengthens because it allows the writer the patience to follow through and write until the positive end-goal is accomplished after whatever imagined hardship, and weakens because it basically predetermines the fic from the start and allows it no breathing room to really grow & surprise either the reader or the writer.
Let's face it: labelling something as being written for "H/D" or "S/R" tends to assure the reader that those two characters will at some point feel attracted to one another (leaving aside the unrequited love fics, which are starting to feel most authentic to me).
I think I ship H/D in particular at least partly because it's nigh impossible; because it's so difficult and so fraught with challenges. Given, I also ship it because they're cute together, are passionate and snarky & have fascinating many-layered conflicts-- but it's those conflicts, those intrinsic forces threatening and surrounding them that create that sense of hardship in the first place. Somehow, even after reading who-knows-how-many dozens and probably hundreds of H/D fics, I'm still not convinced it can work (or vice versa), and that's why I'm still interested enough to try.
In an interesting contrast, I ship what's often considered a 'boring' and predictable ship (Sirius/Remus) for similar reasons: there's all that betrayal, death and the boundary of time separating them, so it's rather challenging to imagine how it can work in spite & in the midst of all that, even for a little while.... And yes, perhaps all this is really dependent on the attitude of the shipper rather than the ship itself, that's what I'm saying.
I'm the sort of person who'll be excited when you list all the reasons ship X can't-won't-doesn't work. The more you tell me Hermione will break up with Ron after a month (because clearly Hermione needs a more
I really don't consider anything to do with human interaction all that predictable, even if similar things keep happening in cycles, over and over again. You can never be quite sure how another person (or character) will react, and that's enough to keep anyone on their toes. However, I get the feeling that most people don't read romantic fiction looking for that sense of frantic suspense but rather for reassurance; for reiteration of what they believe they already know: so-and-so are good/snarky/sexy together, the end.
So what am I saying? (Ah, the usual question.)
I'm saying, I guess, that I think the root of my fannish discontent has had to do less with the specifics of whatever characterization (though certainly top!Draco can annoy me and make me go WHYGODWHYWHYWHY), and more to do with that OMGWTFLOL reaction that strikes me at whatever changes because it doesn't strike the other characters. And it also has to do with that sense of creeping romantic certainty that isn't based on any real bedrock within the fic; I mean, I can't imagine myself finishing most current WIPs except maybe Underwater Light and Eclipse (...and actually also Plague of Legends and Love Under Will, heheh) just to see whether (not how! not when! whether!) Harry & Draco are, in fact, omg-MFEO-4evah this time.
It all comes back to the purple nose, dude. And the polka dots. Can't forget the polka dots.
I'm also saying Fiona's `The Way Things Are' is like, H/D-as-I-see-it in a nutshell <3<3<3 ...Fatalist? Meeeee? Neverrrr! If anything, 'cause my personal-fanon!H/D song is Ani's `As Is'; 'cause yeah... my ultimate dream? Is Harry understanding that Draco is an asshole who hides behind stupid excuses and pretends he's okay when he's not and lies to himself nearly all the time and you know... that's okay. He's not alone in that. And... imagine having no illusions about someone and loving them anyway; maybe I'm an incurable romantic after all, but yeah... I think that's what True Love is all about, and besides, otherwise it all feels like a great big lie that's bound to come crashing down sometime. Harsh Reality 101. I'd even say that it's only after you admit to yourself that your beloved is deeply flawed and that's all right that you can really love them deeply and it grows beyond infatuation.
But... I'm just not a believer by nature, if by 'belief' you mean unquestioned faith; so I wouldn't believe in a friend 'cause I know they're 'good'-- I'd stand by them even though I know they can be not-so-much. Actually... that might be part of what is usually misunderstood, considering I know I sound so certain, except I'm not. That's me; never certain about anything. :> Keeps things interesting, at least.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-06-04 05:55 am (UTC)I go, "Dude, where's my Draco?" :( No love for the canon!Draco. Why does nobody love my baby? Stupid fandom... Stupid JKR... Stupid fic writers...
Anyway, this is why I'm actually OMG PANTSCREAMINGLY excited over HBP, because I figure no matter what happens, chapter 6 is going to bring some good H/D material, if only succeeding in giving just a little bit more canon!Draco for fandom to turn all sparkly and shoujo and redeemed in their stupid fics XD. Haha and I'm tired and rambling so scuse me if this reply is full of shit.
Anyway, what I really hate is Gary-Stued Harry getting all the Draco love cos he's similarly sparkly and clean and such. Yes! It does happen, and I hate it. Because Draco may be obsessed
a lota little with the boy, but that doesn't mean he's completely pussywhipped. And Harry would be a pain in the arse to live with, even if you did love the bugger.because clearly Hermione needs a more nerdy intellectual man to be her equal-omg
Man? PFFFFFFF. Mione is the biggest dyke in the entire Hogwarts student body XD. This is why I stay away from scary het shipwars. Not my flavour of fandom crazy, kthnx.
Haha no I lie. My Sooper Seekrit Het Ship is Neville/Hermione. OHGODSDONTKILLMEPLZ!!1one No, really, I'm serious.
I'd even say that it's only after you admit to yourself that your beloved is deeply flawed and that's all right that you can really love them deeply and it grows beyond infatuation.
This is why I go all soppy for the H/D cliche of "They're all messed up but their messed up bits fit together" or whatever it is. Cos yeah, I'm a sucker like that. I think you are too.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-04 11:53 pm (UTC)But yes, I'm starting to be really excited about HBP too :D :D :D Yee. Man, though not a lot of hope for useful fandom and/or H/D response, but still :D More to work with :D
Hahahah Hermione/Neville makes me laugh, but is oddly intriguing o_0
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 12:13 am (UTC)Hermione/Neville: HMS Petrificus Totalus XD. I dunno why it strikes me. I mean, Hermione is so dykey to me that maybe I think she needs a very sensitive boy to put up with her, or something. And Neville's so adorable and cute I can't stand it when he gets paired off with Hogwarts'-Resident-Cheerleader-Lavender, or something. Cos she's a ho.
Neville's a hero! A very repressed hero (Psycho, much?) but a hero nonetheless. I've never found a fic for this ship, though. Can you still ship something if nobody writes anything for it?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 01:19 am (UTC)Heheh, I ship Luna/Zacharias and I'm pretty sure no one's written -that-. But now you've inspired me to blaze ahead where no one's dared before, etcetc and so on and so forth.
--
Neville actually knew the advanced Defense curriculum quite well. It was only that Hermione's coolly appraising Look of Doom wasn't helping. At all.
"Neville.... Oh, just watch!" Hermione heaved yet another long-suffering sigh. "It's Corona Contego," she said, and made another sweeping gesture with her wand, swirling it around Neville's head. "Now you try."
Neville shivered a bit, nodding as he bit his lip. "Um, right. I got it. I'm a little tired, that's all."
Hermione's expression softened a bit. "You're so close, though. I know you can pass the exam if you concentrate, and then--"
"What if I don't want to be an Auror?" he said suddenly, uncharacteristically sullen. "Professor Sprout is going to take a sabbatical, and she said-- er--" He stammered, watching for the slightest change in Hermione's expression. "But I-- I mean, that's in the future, and I'll do my best--"
Hermione nodded, rolling up her scrolls efficiently, tucking a stray strand of frizzy brown behind one ear. "Perhaps you're right," she said briskly. "We can make an early start tomorrow, if you can meet me right after lunch. There's the DA meeting at 3, but I'm sure we can finish up before then. Besides, taking time off is perfectly reasonable when you're nearly done, that's elementary."
"I'll try--" he began. "I mean, are you sure?"
"There's no trying anymore. You can, so you will, and that's all there is to it."
Neville's eyes widened and he swallowed. "R-right...." God, she must think he's still the fumbly pathetic dolt he'd been in first year, and it was too late to.... Too late....
"We're all counting on you, Neville," she said, glancing back and giving him a small smile before wiping at a smudge of ink on her chin. "I know you won't let me down." And she shut the door with a soft click.
Neville exhaled and sat back down, closing his eyes. "Yeah."
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:01 am (UTC)horneythings of love for writing such canon!Neville* And Hermione's Appraising Look o Doom is wonderful too.no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:37 am (UTC)...At least I don't write deathfics/rapefics or... *shudder* H/C fics :))
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:52 am (UTC)Though to be honest I only drink the non-alcoholic kind, so I don't know :>
no subject
Date: 2005-06-04 10:36 am (UTC)Wow. I couldn't agree less. (Of course, that's not a surprise from me!)
I find there are very few fans of Draco at all (the canon version, anyway) let alone H/D shippers who prefer him to Harry.
The vast majority of ones I've seen have a huge fondness for Harry (imho, maybe that's why there's so much fanon for Draco? Because the general opinion is that Harry doesn't need to change anything about himself in order for H/D to work, and that he's already great/even Stu-ish.)
Although I suppose it's all a matter of opinion.
Have you seen layha's 'The Way Things Are' fanvid?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-04 11:47 pm (UTC)And yeah, Layha's vid is why I got so attached to that song :>
no subject
Date: 2005-06-07 12:47 pm (UTC)I agree that Harry is just as flawed as Draco, and I would really like to see more recognition of that in fanon. I definitely am not one of those who isn't interested in Harry; I absolutely adore him in and out of canon, and that means that I like to see him dealt with realistically, as a fucked-up guy who can be a real asshole sometimes. Actually, I have some unfaithful!Harry rolling around in my brain...perhaps to emerge soon.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 01:21 pm (UTC)Or that he can be fanon-ized but it slips under the radar. I mean, I've read plenty of stories where Harry is in a situation exactly like ones in canon but his reaction to it is exactly opposite to what it would be (and reflects better on Harry, imo), and it's never considered fanon, I guess because Harry doesn't wind up exceptionally amazing, just a more low-key great guy.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 08:19 pm (UTC)Anyway, I definitely have noticed the myriad changes people make to Harry to make H/D work, even if they don't realize it-- and that's actually a large part of what drives me up the wall, 'cause fanon!Draco necessitates a certain kind of fanon!Harry (the stupid kind who goes OMG HOT!!1). If at least one of them had normal reactions to the other's sudden greatness, it'd be fine, or at least it was in Transfigurations, but just... Harry admiring Draco's Slytherinnness & fit abs... well, it's clearly just the authors projecting themselves & controlling the character's reactions.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-07 09:29 am (UTC)I ADORE the Malfoys! The CANON Malfoys! Lucius and Draco, deliciously prejudiced, elitist, arrogant, oppotunist, I'll-slip-you-some-galleons-under-the-table-while-we-discuss-that-vacant-position-at-the-Ministry, insecure, jealous, vengefu----- WAITAMINUTE. Where was I...?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-07 12:43 pm (UTC)um... ignore me
Date: 2005-06-04 11:50 am (UTC)i actually had a new theory on some kinds of fanon, but it may be straw-mannish and mean. :( though, it would be mean to myself too.
I'd even say that it's only after you admit to yourself that your beloved is deeply flawed and that's all right that you can really love them deeply and it grows beyond infatuation.
yes. whoever the improved character is, everytime it pops up it makes me think of a certain approach to human fallibility... ahah, although given my attitude to harry, i wonder if this is more a problem of the person being immature rather the feelings being weak. maybe true love can only come from a mature person?
i wouldn't want to sound too psycho rabidfan as i talk about how much more it's difficult for me to accept flaws in the ones we love than in others. talking about my dad issues in conjunction with my hp issues is... well. but that goes to show how all this is a sign of my repressed love for harry!!
anyway, the conclusion that "this lack of mercy is the actual flaw" -- i'd love a story to focus on. i was trying to do that with draco but i am afraid i butchered that last scene horribly. =.=
no subject
Date: 2005-06-04 11:40 pm (UTC)I wasn't trying to bash fanon here, anyway. Um. I was trying to reiterate for the millionth time (I guess) why/how I don't really get why people insist on writing 'closed' fics with predetermined characters following orders and changing with straight angles rather than curves, and suddenly going 'oh. I guess I want him.' rather than falling in love. But I suspect it's a different way of thinking altogether.
The part about maturity is interesting... being able to admit these things to oneself, yes. It would be different if the Harry in these fics was clearly delusional (which is clear to me about UL, for instance, but not most other people); if the person -thought- the other person was All That and they really weren't, then it'd be a great fic about the way they don't really love, or love the best they can. Y'know? It's all about playing with pov in that case.
The projection issues on the part of the author also bother me to some extent; on the one hand it's clearly natural, but on the other I just feel it contributes to the sense of rigidity I feel in these stories, where the characters move like chess pieces because some things are just not allowed for them. But then, it's equally ridiculous to really act as if the characters have 'free will' where I don't even believe actual human beings have 100% 'free will'; and again, I'd say it's fine for people not to accept flaws in others (that's human nature) as long as the story shows those flaws exist. But that's just what I see as good writing, and well, it's not as if that's going to be dominating the spectrum anytime soon....
I also think I'm a bit rabid when it comes to obsessing over the flaws in these particular characters, as a sort of reactionary thing. I don't really focus on the flaws of people I love, far from it-- I accept them and am aware of them, but I don't go out of my way to show or think about them 'cause it's upsetting. I guess when I write I do enter an alternate mindspace where it's not precisely -me- writing in the ego sense, so I just channel what I think the character is going to be reacting like. I'm not conscious during that process, so perhaps that side-steps a lot of issues I myself might have with either of them....
I do feel as if shallow depictions of love in terms of H/D just doesn't matter to me anymore. It used to feel good, but now it's a vague pleasant buzz, but.
Ahahah, it just occurred to me that 'realistic love' is like my pet project, my little obsessive quirk like some people just need lube in sex-scenes & rant all the time about it. And while I've read oodles of Harlequin-type unrealistic love stories, I've gotten to the point where I'm feeling stifled and even lied to, and that's all much more about me than the fics, I guess.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:16 am (UTC)heh... you know, though, that i was talking about harry? i *probably* don't write fanon draco but he's grown so much to have a personal dimension that i am not so sure anymore he's the real deal. i guess i am not so obsessed with these things anymore -- it comes from not obsessing over them in other people's fanfics, probably. but you tell me when you read that... or maybe my repressed animus *really* is canon draco. well, that'd be convenient.
with harry... well, he's my problem in writing. it's been interesting to think about my own reactions when it came to realise what i wanted to do -- in terms of both him and draco reacting to him. but as you said, projection only works well at this stage. in the time of planning the character arc (and writing it) we should merely use our smarts and our control. character arcs are what fascinates me most about writing, the process of taking, say, harry from 1) i love you but i hate you you made me into this to 2) i love you and you're a lame bastard but what the hell, everyone is. (... a random example) but you know... it's not enough to make him *think* that in two sequential paragraphs. -.- anvils are so underrated, btw.
you know, i was about to rec another manga to you because of the special skill the guy has with this, but... you still don't read manga, right?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 02:35 am (UTC)I love character arcs too; I don't know if that's what fascinates me most as a writer (it's probably right up there as a reader, since I keep rambling about it all the time). That's probably just because I can't consciously construct them-- I can only instinctively feel them out. Then again, what -do- I do my logical brain for? Um. Possibly plot developments and style; that is to say, I think I'm most self-conscious about my poetics and am clueless enough with my own character arcs that when you said DE!Draco was undergoing the consequences of trauma I was like, OMG THERE WAS TRAUMA?? -.- (I mean, I -knew-, obviously, but I didn't -know-. If you know what I mean.)
i love you and you're a lame bastard but what the hell, everyone is.
...See, I really don't get why there's not more of that out there. I mean, I do but it's really frustrating. But yes; I think to me, the important thing is to show the thought processes and make them feel natural & not like 'well, of course this is how it happened'... predictable, I guess? I'm not sure how projection issues tie into this... I guess while I project onto characters, I find they have a mind of their own and they care didley-squat as for what I want from them. Possibly I'm actually just bitter that people make characters do things even -I- (as the reader & third party) could tell they didn't really want to do. Um.
Of course I read manga, I spend like, most of the winter & this spring reading manga :P Just not shounen manga ^^;
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 03:05 am (UTC)the manga is a shonen, but um, not an adventure/fantasy/fight-based shonen? it's monster by kurosawa.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-05 03:19 am (UTC)Yeah, I've already gotten Monster ages ago, but as with 85% of the stuff I have, I haven't gotten to read it yet ^^;
no subject
Date: 2005-06-07 12:37 pm (UTC)Agreed. For me, H/D is all about the challenge. The best fics are the ones where even if you feel reasonably sure right from the beginning that they'll be together in the end, the author gives you that suspense that maybe they won't, or puts them through challenges that would realistically occur in this relationship. Easy, fluffy H/D is just not appealing to me past the ficlet level. A long or chaptered H/D where they are immediately OMG-so-in-love gets boring (not to mention absurd) VERY quickly.
Btw, whatever happened to Love Under Will? I'm new enough to the slash fandom that I have no idea whether it's been abandoned or not. GIVE ME MORE, Aja!
no subject
Date: 2005-06-07 12:45 pm (UTC)And no, Aja's still writing Love Under Will (slowly). I think there was a new chapter a month or two ago, or something.