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reenkaThis may seem like a stupid question, but... why should anyone care about writing in-character fic?
I mean, it's a philosophical stance, almost, isn't it, and therefore debatable and of subjective importance? It's easy to get caught up in the innate superiority of 'canonical correctness', but it's not like anyone's going to win a prize. People say, 'but why write fanfic if you don't care about writing OOC', but what does it matter what someone's reason is? It's not like anyone's is infringing on anyone else's personal rights (except maybe the author's, depending on the author's feelings) by writing whatever kind of fanfic they want.
So leaving that alone... why should anyone care if they don't? And yet... it does annoy me to hear claims about characters I know that I find unbelievable (like... uh... Harry's always had a crush on Lucius, why not), I admit, because... I hate it when the world doesn't make any sense on a basic level. Like, a fic needs to make basic sense, and of course everyone's definition of 'basic common sense' differs, clearly.
I'm specifically talking about the idea that people should care though, not why anyone would want to in the first place. Obviously, there are plenty of reasons, like that writing fanfic is an exercise in using another author's world, and to write that successfully, you'd need to use as much of it as you can. So to complete the exercise, the idea is that one does certain things... it's a linear process. Add writing ability, attention to the events and behaviors in canon to an intriguing and believable plot-line and you've achieved a Pretty Good Fanfic, right.
My own reason is that it seems like OOC fanfic is that much more likely to suck, and evidences the writer's disregard for what passes for 'reality' in the fictional world they chose. This sense of carelessness can't help but create a sloppy fic, right? And yet it doesn't seem to work that way. Sure, plenty of OOC fics do seem sloppy and ridiculous on a basic level of psychological believability, but my favorite fics in HP are actually rather OOC in enough ways anyway. They're psychologically insightful and in-depth and always well-written, but not necessarily a full extrapolation of canon as I see it. So they succeeded as fics in my mind, but they didn't succeed as fanfiction exercises, and it didn't matter, though ICness does matter to me.
Partly, I'm thinking of this because of the meme going around where one of the questions is whether people care whether what they read is OOC. Most people say they care, and yet if you look at what's popular in fandom at large and what those people like in terms of fic, it doesn't pan out since most stuff out there isn't really that rigorous in terms of being IC as far as I can tell, in any large fandom at least. So it seems that the common view is that ICness is a good ideal, but whatever works as a fic is basically more than good enough. And what's wrong with that, if that's what the main fandom audience wants, since fanfiction is a fannish activity in the first place?
That is, if more fans seriously wanted to write/read IC fanfic, wouldn't more of it be written? I'm not sure whether I'm right to apply the idea of supply & demand to fanfic writing, but it seems to fit. If the fic that people are producing is satisfying enough people, then that's what the people want and thus it's what they'll get in the future, or until another fandom trend begins, and trends seem to be like fads in that they don't necessarily have a clear logical origin.
I reserve the right to be really annoyed by fic that makes no sense to me, but it's inevitable that making that into a theoretical construct (like 'it shouldn't be like this') is only a rationalization.
I was also thinking about why I don't tend to hate original fiction, where I get really pissed at fanfic sometimes, and I think it's because I rarely think original fic is wrong before I just notice that it's badly written and stop reading-- that is, there's more of a constant correlation between well-written and utterly believable. With fanfic, it's pretty easy to write well-done crap and also well-done beautiful enjoyable (OOC) fic... which is rather confusing to me. It's also possible to write badly written IC fic, which happens more rarely but I've seen it too, mostly 'cause I can tell what the writer is -trying- to express and think it's 'correct' in so far as that goes, but they just... can't express it very well yet, which sucks. Perhaps I don't get the same level of insight into the workings of any given original story, and don't have the same sense of what the writer was trying to say-- or what they should have been trying to say (there's that word again)-- I just know if it works for me or not.
...I don't think I've come to any conclusion, but then, I'm not really good at that whole essay-writing thing, more just the babbling thing. Mostly, I'm frustrated because people are like, 'yeay, ICness!' and then like, 'yeay! pairings-that-wouldn't-happen-in-a-zillion-years!' and I'm like.... whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, etc. And I suppose any pairing -could- happen... no, okay, I'm sorry, okay, but some wouldn't. And this was my attempt to say, eh, who cares. It's not as if this is a science, especially given how science, or things that are actually supposed to be logical, aren't supposed to constantly contradict themselves.
Perhaps it's just that in good fiction, when characters contradict themselves, they usually still have a reason, and that's why it's not really real life-- 'cause in real life, a bunch of stupid things happen that have causes but they aren't necessarily the causes you'd think, and you may never know. In fiction, if you don't know what the cause of someone's behavior is at all, you're just confusing and frustrating your readers-- and whereas life is supposed to be like that, fiction is supposed to be a respite from that sense of utter chaos. Or something.
Perhaps, though, some of us go overboard in trying to make fanfiction too orderly-- because it doesn't just adhere to the rules of fiction and (vaguely, hopefully less-than-vaguely) real life, but also exists in comparison to another text. It's all so confusing but in a totally different way-- that is, a successful fanfic and a successful story aren't necessarily the same thing. And I suppose I'll take a successful story over a fanfic any day, it's just... hard to get away from the idea that some things are just impossible and don't make any sense (to me) so they shouldn't be done... like (consensual) Harry/Lucius or say, uh, the supposed glory that is fandom!Blaise (WHY??). I shall never understand these things on a gut level, but maybe I don't need to. That's such a revelation to me: maybe I don't need to. It doesn't make sense to me, but... duh, that's why I don't write it.
I mean, it's a philosophical stance, almost, isn't it, and therefore debatable and of subjective importance? It's easy to get caught up in the innate superiority of 'canonical correctness', but it's not like anyone's going to win a prize. People say, 'but why write fanfic if you don't care about writing OOC', but what does it matter what someone's reason is? It's not like anyone's is infringing on anyone else's personal rights (except maybe the author's, depending on the author's feelings) by writing whatever kind of fanfic they want.
So leaving that alone... why should anyone care if they don't? And yet... it does annoy me to hear claims about characters I know that I find unbelievable (like... uh... Harry's always had a crush on Lucius, why not), I admit, because... I hate it when the world doesn't make any sense on a basic level. Like, a fic needs to make basic sense, and of course everyone's definition of 'basic common sense' differs, clearly.
I'm specifically talking about the idea that people should care though, not why anyone would want to in the first place. Obviously, there are plenty of reasons, like that writing fanfic is an exercise in using another author's world, and to write that successfully, you'd need to use as much of it as you can. So to complete the exercise, the idea is that one does certain things... it's a linear process. Add writing ability, attention to the events and behaviors in canon to an intriguing and believable plot-line and you've achieved a Pretty Good Fanfic, right.
My own reason is that it seems like OOC fanfic is that much more likely to suck, and evidences the writer's disregard for what passes for 'reality' in the fictional world they chose. This sense of carelessness can't help but create a sloppy fic, right? And yet it doesn't seem to work that way. Sure, plenty of OOC fics do seem sloppy and ridiculous on a basic level of psychological believability, but my favorite fics in HP are actually rather OOC in enough ways anyway. They're psychologically insightful and in-depth and always well-written, but not necessarily a full extrapolation of canon as I see it. So they succeeded as fics in my mind, but they didn't succeed as fanfiction exercises, and it didn't matter, though ICness does matter to me.
Partly, I'm thinking of this because of the meme going around where one of the questions is whether people care whether what they read is OOC. Most people say they care, and yet if you look at what's popular in fandom at large and what those people like in terms of fic, it doesn't pan out since most stuff out there isn't really that rigorous in terms of being IC as far as I can tell, in any large fandom at least. So it seems that the common view is that ICness is a good ideal, but whatever works as a fic is basically more than good enough. And what's wrong with that, if that's what the main fandom audience wants, since fanfiction is a fannish activity in the first place?
That is, if more fans seriously wanted to write/read IC fanfic, wouldn't more of it be written? I'm not sure whether I'm right to apply the idea of supply & demand to fanfic writing, but it seems to fit. If the fic that people are producing is satisfying enough people, then that's what the people want and thus it's what they'll get in the future, or until another fandom trend begins, and trends seem to be like fads in that they don't necessarily have a clear logical origin.
I reserve the right to be really annoyed by fic that makes no sense to me, but it's inevitable that making that into a theoretical construct (like 'it shouldn't be like this') is only a rationalization.
I was also thinking about why I don't tend to hate original fiction, where I get really pissed at fanfic sometimes, and I think it's because I rarely think original fic is wrong before I just notice that it's badly written and stop reading-- that is, there's more of a constant correlation between well-written and utterly believable. With fanfic, it's pretty easy to write well-done crap and also well-done beautiful enjoyable (OOC) fic... which is rather confusing to me. It's also possible to write badly written IC fic, which happens more rarely but I've seen it too, mostly 'cause I can tell what the writer is -trying- to express and think it's 'correct' in so far as that goes, but they just... can't express it very well yet, which sucks. Perhaps I don't get the same level of insight into the workings of any given original story, and don't have the same sense of what the writer was trying to say-- or what they should have been trying to say (there's that word again)-- I just know if it works for me or not.
...I don't think I've come to any conclusion, but then, I'm not really good at that whole essay-writing thing, more just the babbling thing. Mostly, I'm frustrated because people are like, 'yeay, ICness!' and then like, 'yeay! pairings-that-wouldn't-happen-in-a-zillion-years!' and I'm like.... whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, etc. And I suppose any pairing -could- happen... no, okay, I'm sorry, okay, but some wouldn't. And this was my attempt to say, eh, who cares. It's not as if this is a science, especially given how science, or things that are actually supposed to be logical, aren't supposed to constantly contradict themselves.
Perhaps it's just that in good fiction, when characters contradict themselves, they usually still have a reason, and that's why it's not really real life-- 'cause in real life, a bunch of stupid things happen that have causes but they aren't necessarily the causes you'd think, and you may never know. In fiction, if you don't know what the cause of someone's behavior is at all, you're just confusing and frustrating your readers-- and whereas life is supposed to be like that, fiction is supposed to be a respite from that sense of utter chaos. Or something.
Perhaps, though, some of us go overboard in trying to make fanfiction too orderly-- because it doesn't just adhere to the rules of fiction and (vaguely, hopefully less-than-vaguely) real life, but also exists in comparison to another text. It's all so confusing but in a totally different way-- that is, a successful fanfic and a successful story aren't necessarily the same thing. And I suppose I'll take a successful story over a fanfic any day, it's just... hard to get away from the idea that some things are just impossible and don't make any sense (to me) so they shouldn't be done... like (consensual) Harry/Lucius or say, uh, the supposed glory that is fandom!Blaise (WHY??). I shall never understand these things on a gut level, but maybe I don't need to. That's such a revelation to me: maybe I don't need to. It doesn't make sense to me, but... duh, that's why I don't write it.
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no subject
Date: 2005-01-25 02:04 pm (UTC)so the frustration over what i think you just posted about is also about different povs.
and i hate them and they are all wrong why can't they see why are they all so fucking stupid argh kill kill killno subject
Date: 2005-01-25 08:14 pm (UTC)Though I still think some of the biggest problems aren't just 'cause we view canon differently but because people don't really follow through on their own premises enough and don't have enough insight into human motivations and how people really act and so on. Not that I'm god-like and all-knowing or anything, but... I know it's wrong when I'm constantly being handed pat explanations and rationalizations and plot-devices in fanfics and so on ^^;;
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 04:01 pm (UTC)what frustrated me last night was a good example, because "monk" and sexual acts simply are ver hard to handly. and to have a man who washes his hand if he has to shake another suddenly stick his tongue into another man's mouth is not simply ooc, it does not follow their own premise established earlier in the fic.
i want unaroused people now.
i want fanfic where seduction fails
don't mind me.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 04:25 pm (UTC)...Usually, I have to suspend my disbelief (for the sake of smut, omg), but sometimes people do sell a very tightly controlled or repressed Heero becoming a sex maniac 'cause... when these people snap, they SNAP. Or sometimes he's very methodical and emotionless even with sex... or is like, 'okay, I have sexual needs I need to release'. Or maybe he goes a little insane-- I totally find that believable-- and his conscious mind gets totally suspended.
It's all in how skillful the writer is. I mean, this set-up is -possible-, you just need to show the repercussions and why the person lost their mind or whatever :>
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 04:34 pm (UTC)but heero is not a clinical manic disorder patient. i forgot the word. obsessive compulsive paired with autistic, coz that's what monk is. he could not overcome his fears if it meant the life of his best mate, as had been shown. so that fic was beyond bad. beyond arghkillkill.
and then, having left it next to bed, it gave me a papercut first thing in the morning as well! evil, i tell you