reenka: (Default)
[personal profile] reenka
It's odd... I want to say something in favor of reading as escapism and comfort-fic, but I don't know where to start. Plenty of people have written about the positive and healing aspects of fantasy, but that's not quite the same thing as escapism (at least, not 'fantasy' as Ursula LeGuin writes about it, for instance). I think JRR Tolkien's essay, `On Fairy Stories', talks about escape, though-- the concept of there being some things in the world that should be escaped, like the various spiritual/natural corruptions of modern culture-- so that escape through fiction could be a return to our roots, perhaps.

On the other hand, I've always wanted to see stories be written as realistic and vital as possible; I'm tempted to call what I'm looking for (emotionally) realistic fantasy (or realistic escape?). My concept of realism is really a question of basic plausibility-- that is, I'd like to suspend my disbelief, but I don't want to have to work very hard to do it. I want the story to enchant me and beguile me to the point that I think this jump of the imagination (fairies, 'true love', other worlds, wizards, boys who act all sensitive) is natural and I never knew it. It's like some hidden reality being revealed-- and within the confines of the story, you can believe and feel both transported and grounded at once.

I'm mostly relating this to my current craving for something other than angst. I'm kind of emotionally exhausted with H/D, at least, and if I were to read anything, I'd want it to reassure me, to put me at ease. However, I'm not quite willing to pretend everything is completely fine between them, and really Draco is a beautiful cultured prince with a perfect command of everything, including Harry-- because that's not escape to me so much as a lie, and yes, I think there's a difference. It doesn't make me feel better so much as... distracted. And I want to still remember the bad things-- and see good things in spite of them. That's what escapism means to me, and I think that's what JRR Tolkien was getting at as the purpose of fairy stories-- that sense of redemption, of transforming the ugly into the beautiful.


Pure fluff doesn't fulfill that function because its roots are so shallow, it seems like-- while it's bubbly and light and pleasant to read, it doesn't help when what you have, as the reader, is an emotional need to satisfy. Fluff is short-term in the extreme in its effects because it doesn't touch the deeper fears and needs within us-- thusly it doesn't truly have the power to comfort, it seems to me, as it fails to recognize the hurt.

It's the equivalent of someone you barely know sitting down next to you and going 'there there' while patting you on the shoulder-- while it's 'nice', I suppose, it hardly helps in any real way, does it?

In this way I feel that escapism and realism shouldn't have to be at opposite ends of the spectrum-- merely because I think there's a connection between them, within a particular kind of story. And now, in the H/D pairing at least-- post-OoTP-- there's a particular need for that sort of story. A story that tells us it's all right while not flinching at all vision of the problems and obstacles in the way of either Harry or Draco's happiness. A story that shows us the way out without lying to us about it being at all easy. The escape becomes quite literal, then-- it's an exodus from something horrible, something you remember quite well, and that's why you're escaping.

Some people would claim that all fiction is a lie, and fantasy romance even more blatantly than most-- and while there's some truth to that, I think it's not the whole truth.
    So yeah. I think it's what we all want, even if we deny it-- something real that makes us feel good, and it just depends on what makes us feel good. Some people feel good just reading good writing-- or their pairing of choice in a situation they find realistic and thus easy to picture-- or reading something that's real to them because they have some particular connection to that scenario or character no matter what else is going on in the story. I think I feel best combining all these things-- but especially great when I feel like the story itself is talking about a transformation of some sort, from darkness to light, from despair to hope, from need to fulfillment.

Enough people would say that you can't have 'realism' without showing that such transformation is always temporary and impossible to trust-- that human beings are so fallible, and their emotions so transitory, that in the end you'd always have to close your eyes to the truth if you want to experience joy. Not just happiness, which can be a surface thing because it's just another mood, but joy, which is reached upon having attained one's desire. I don't know if I'm explaining it right. Suffice it to say that you can have sadness, pain and deep loss suffused with this sort of joy of being-- because you are both who and where you want to be. And that is the ultimate escape of this dreary 'obvious' world into a world where all the possibilities are contained in you.

And that is where I want to escape, as a reader: into the world of the infinitely possible.
~~

I was also thinking about my lack of motivation to finish fanfics lately-- and how difficult it is to find a balance between writing for an audience and for one's own pleasure. Because I -do- write fanfiction for a circle of fellow fans, while I write fiction for myself-- and that doesn't mean I won't write unless I get reviews and adulation. It just means that having a community of fellow fans encouraging me and writing about similar issues and situations had meant a lot to me, and having lost that support almost entirely left me feeling more and more bereft.

So yeah, I miss that old sense of belonging, I guess-- that I wasn't just writing fic, but writing fic as a part of a group phenomenon. And I know people post a lot of meta about whether fanfic is for fans (and does it therefore imply some sort of obligation on part of the reader) or for themselves... but for me it's not a matter of fannish obligation so much as support and a greater meaning in context. It means something that my fanfic can be read in context of other stories on the subject. My writing doesn't exist in a vaccuum, and it's that sense of meta collaboration that has often inspired me to a response as a writer, at least in part.

I guess I'm saying that I feel more and more isolated, and while it's not stopping me from writing anything, it's probably limiting how much I do feel inspired, I guess.

Date: 2004-12-09 03:52 am (UTC)
morganmuffle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] morganmuffle
I think "plausible" is what I really want from fantasy. You're right, reading fantasy that just amounts to lies isn't escapism at all. If I read a story and the characters are acting in a way I know no human would or some magical ending appears out of the blue it jolts me out of any belief in the world. It's why I love Tolkien so much, his world is so real even now I'm reading the Histories and all his notes it feels like a real world. He never glosses over the pain and the horrible things that happen but there is redemption at the end.

As I was reading your post I realised that the desire for "realistic" or "plausible" fantasy is what makes me become obsessive over details in fictional worlds, I want them to work and I don't want to wonder why on earth X said that or how Y got there so fast etc. Infinite possibilities are one of the best things about fantasy but in a way once the story has begun they aren't actually infinite, the events of the story have to fit together.

As for the last bit of your post, I've never really had many readers so most of what I write is for me and a lot of it never gets posted at all but I do feel the lack of people to talk about my writing with. I feel it particularly when a friend reviews and I get to talk about it or when I'm talking to another author about their own work. Apart from anything else fanfic as part of a fandom means that you can refine ideas you have and also your own writing style and improve, it's much harder to do that on your own.

Date: 2004-12-09 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
once the story has begun they aren't actually infinite, the events of the story have to fit together.
Yes! I was thinking over that, and that's precisely true-- that's why I get so upset at fanfics that don't seem cohesive or accurate, for instance-- because they start out with a set of givens (either from canon or from whatever circumstances they posit extra to that), and often enough as soon as the story gets rolling, the fudging begins. How often does a story drop the ball and get all fluffy before its time? It just happens again and again, it seems like-- like the writer is impatient and unwilling to follow through on the narrowed set of possibilities they'd started with. But if there wasn't this sense of internal logic, then it wouldn't be -fantasy-, it'd be absurdist or surrealist fic-- and even then one could appreciate that more if it's done on purpose. It's an interesting thought to compare/contrast fantasy with surrealism, come to think of it, but I do believe the difference is crucial to both genres~:)
Basically, that's why I've never really thought ridiculous fantasy like Terry Pratchett was really 'fantasy' in the sense I usually enjoy (because while I like -parody-, it wasn't parody either).

Using the word 'lie' is such an interesting thing in this context, isn't it? It seems like we use it because it dignifies not so much an untruth as disbelief itself. One doesn't believe a lie, usually because it rings false. But a truth could be irrational in origin and yet still true in execution. Or something like that~:)

I don't tend to obsess over details myself, mostly because I'm so flightly and distractable, probably :> I just like a general instinctual sense that things -work- :>
Yeah, it's like... not that I've ever gotten many reviews, since it's not about that-- it's just having a circle of people who're doing the same thing you are, and even if they don't read your stuff, you still read -theirs-, and the dialogue is what's important. And now that so few of the people I know (virtually no one) is writing HP fic actively, I feel all... discouraged, I guess.

Date: 2004-12-09 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/
is this in any way likely to be similar to what i mean when i say i want my fiction to show the world as it should be? seeming plausible, but a suspension of disbelief is needed to forget how rl works?

Date: 2004-12-09 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Yes~:) The world how it should be... though ideally, I want my stories to show the world how it -is- and then -progressing- to how it should be. Like... some suspension of disbelief is required but some connection to rationality remains as grounding, so it's not a complete forgetting, y'know? More like an extrapolating, or something.

the world how be in the future

Date: 2004-12-09 03:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/
*nods* that's what i meant!


it's also the reason i tried writing.

Date: 2004-12-09 01:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksatinrose.livejournal.com
I stumble over the "feel good" thing, because I have a negative reaction to putting things in emotional terms. Just saying. ;)

Err, otherwise I have not much to add, because I don't care for escapism HAHA.

Date: 2004-12-09 02:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Heh, I can't help but put things in emotional terms, it seems like, especially in regards to stories. Maybe I'm also feeling more emotional lately 'cause ... the more wintery it gets, the more I tend to want comfort ^^; Like, I also think stories' emotional component is important from a theoretical pov as much as from a completely subjective one, 'cause a large part of why stories matter to most readers is their emotional subtext/context/etc. And like... escapism can be unhealthy & avoidant & unhelpful or it can be how one deals with loss & heartache and uses the story as a tool to healing. Well, there's a form of Jungian psychology/counseling work that goes by that idea, anyway :>

Date: 2004-12-09 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksatinrose.livejournal.com
Haha, no, there's no reason to even try not to put things in emotional terms. It's just like, when I ruminate I always phrase things in a kind of intellectualizing manner because I don't think in terms of emotions, so I can't help it. Am a cold bitch. ;) So yeah, that, I think, is just me being INTJ vs. you being (I'm going to guess) INFsomething.

I also don't actually have a problem with escapism on a theoretical level - I think it's a completely valid thing to enjoy and/or write. I just don't, myself, personally, like it, because I'm all about confronting the tragedy of life and, I guess, accepting that the world sort of sucks. That's why I could only love Remus/Sirius after Sirius died, LOL.

Date: 2004-12-09 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I think my reason to put things more rationally, such as it is, would be because I want to facilitate communication as reason is generally the common language one uses :> I suppose one can understand each other based on emotions alone, but that's a tricky thing that depends on chance as much as anything. And I don't appreciate people just automatically knowing what I mean 'cause they're the same way so much as them knowing what I mean 'cause we've found some common ground even though we're coming from different places. Or something :>

I'm definitely an INFP, though I like to think I can justify/talk about things in rational/intellectual terms if I have to, I'm just too lazy most of the time :> I switch around, anyway-- I dislike the idea of being like, trapped by my emotions so I can't imagine the outer world, so I've always practiced disagreeing with myself~:))

I think the whole escapism thing as I mean it wouldn't necessarily be something like writing/wanting to read a fic that brings back Sirius-- even realistically. For me, tragedy can be contained within a story of redemption, because the redemption could come for someone else, or too late, or it wouldn't necessarily cover everything. LoTR is definitely like that-- say, it's a tragedy for Frodo, y'know? And yet not. I sort of like that blurry line between hope and despair, with hope prevailing because no amount of despair has to end up destroying one's heart or humanity. I mean, the world sucks and yet one can be content-- or at peace, maybe. I'm always looking for the silver lining though, I do admit that, it's just that I'm definitely all for admitting the cloud exists :>

Date: 2004-12-09 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksatinrose.livejournal.com
Oh hey, you're definitely not irrational - I wouldn't say that INFPs are irrational anymore than I'd say INTJs are necessarily unemotional, I just tend to be, personally. So yeah, you definitely seem to switch around, like your posts are emotional but also very analytical, you know? So yeah, I definitely didn't mean to imply you were trapped by your emotions. It's just that, when one is an F as opposed to a T, the communication styles will tend to differ this way - I'm generally made uncomfortable when it's implied that I do anything for the sake of emotional payoff or feeling of any kind, because I'm just uncomfortable with emotions. ;)

The rest, you know, I think that's a fairly consistent difference between your tastes and mine? Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm trying to understand your position and may be totally misunderstanding, but I've gotten the impression that you enjoy stories where things are generally improved: people are brought to their deeper, truer, healthier and better self, for example, or the world begins as it is and then, as you said upthread, develops into what it should be, from there. Basically stories of healing/acceptance/improvement.

Whereas I tend to write (and read) stories where things either get worse or remain essentially the same, LOL! And I guess I prefer romances, for example, where a person makes the lover the exception to ones where the person is actively improved. Mainly because to me a romance is about finding the other that works for you, rather than finding the you that works for them? That is, I admit, a negative way to phrase it, but that's how I tend to perceive the kind of stories you're talking about.

Which isn't to say I'm against stories where people find their true self and are better for it, it's just, I guess to me, that feels like more of a solitary thing?

And part of it is, I think, that I don't look for healing in stories so much as exploration, if that makes sense.

But I do like a mix of the good and bad, because nothing is solely one or the other. And I don't really have issues with positive endings, for example, as long as they're realistically positive, even though I prefer tragedy because I'm just an angst!whore like that.

Date: 2004-12-10 01:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I guess it's just that... I've always had a sense of yearning for all the things I wasn't? Like, I grew up with a great fascination for the purity of Thought as well as a sort of awe before the power of Feeling. I'm enamoured of the delights of Sensing the natural world and also fascinated with the mysteries of Intuition. The only quality I feel awkward applying to myself or to others is probably Judging. In fact, I spent ages denying I ever did any judging at all :> :> So I guess I see where you're coming from in that sense~:) I mean, I realize I do judge, we all do, but to me it's highly embarrassing & awkward to admit to it, and I find displays of it unsightly and embarrassing in others ^^;;; Like, y'know, when people say they HATE something-- on the one hand, I understand, but on the other I always think they're being too harsh :>

It is true that I do tend to focus on the positive Hero's arc-- the eucatastrophe, the discovery of Self and so on. And I actually agree that it's a solitary process. Which is why I'm often in a bind, trying to figure out what I mean by all my ramblings about love-- this is at least partly because I find Identity to be such a... solitary thing, I guess? We all experience the dark night of the soul alone, to borrow from Joseph Campbell some more :> So yeah... I accept that as truth.

On the other hand... as I was trying to say with my example of Frodo, I think the sense of eucatastrophe could be a sense of gestalt rather than individual. This happens a lot in science fiction stories where it's the world that's redeemed as much or more than any person. I am just as happy with that, and it's probably why I'd been so deeply obsessed with Star Trek throughout adolescence, heh.

I definitely didn't mean to imply that I believed romance is about changing or tailoring yourself for the other person-- I mean, yeah, it's about finding the one that works for you. Generally, the process that I want to read about in romance is not the shifting of self with the goal of 'achieving' some sort of union with the other person, but rather achieving a realization of what it is precisely that you want and how you can get it. Like, you'd start off with ignorance and awkwardness and tension between you and the other, or you and the other and the world-- and eventually you discover yourself enough to know what you need & want. You know, whether that's the other person is... well, it depends :> Hopefully it is, but it's okay if isn't, if you're stronger for the experience.

Like, I don't think I find meaning in life or fiction from a union with others-- I'm definitely a cat that walks by itself. It is only that I think others can reflect or complement or support you in various ways as your journey continues.

I am pretty happy with stories where the lover is the exception but they remain the same-- in fact, I find that's the norm in romances~:) It's just a coincidental truth that I like coming-of-age stories as well as romances, and both in conjunction, though they don't need to be. When I was initially talking about escapism, I just meant that I enjoy the idea of escape-- emotional, literal, intellectual, it doesn't matter. I'm also excited by stories about people who explore other worlds and discover truths about the universe they'd never expected to find :> To escape into another person and make them your haven from the world-- that is just one variation :>

I guess I like a combination of healing and exploration, with a focus on personal truth vs. the universal, but both existing in a balance~:)

Exploration because my curiosity is nearly insatiable, and healing because I feel bad for people who're messed up, I guess? It's that pesky empathy and over-identification with pov characters thing :>

Date: 2004-12-09 09:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blacksatinrose.livejournal.com
p.s. I think you and I could just philosophize at each other for days if it weren't for stuff like sleep and school. LOL!

Date: 2004-12-10 01:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
hee >:D It's great to actually make sense to someone~:) And also not intimidate them or tire them out, wheeeee >:D
...Or make them look at you like you're a total freak. Which I am. But still >:)

Date: 2004-12-09 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
The end of your post made me sad - like, your lack of motivation to finish fic lately & stuff. I get like that a lot, and for a lot of reasons, I think (well, with my original writing). And when I do, I like to just drive somewhere, or walk around; nowhere in particular, just to get my mind working. I dunno if you have something like that that works for you, or if you really care at this point...? :) And I would totally say have some pecan pie and sweet tea, but I don't think you do that up north, haha. So, y'know, bubble tea. ;)

Date: 2004-12-09 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Oh, I was more just moping about my lack of fannish co-conspirators, y'know? It's not that I don't get ideas, it's that sense of there really being an H/D fandom of like, a dozen people whoze work I liked and whose ideas I bounced off of. Like, I still get ideas and write and stuff, but it's just not the same without feeling like I'm part of something and reading stuff to inspire me and stuff ^^;; But bubble tea sounds good >:D


...This (http://users3.ev1.net/~eekfrenzy/captionspage/badfotrcaptionsx.html) is hilarious, btw :>

Date: 2004-12-09 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
That makes me sad too. Haha, everything's making me sad lately. It's the annoying rainy weather, or something. I mean...since I dunno what fandom was like (or, well, still don't really, cause I sit here in my self-imposed corner, and like, squeak in fear whenever anyone reads anything I've written) I guess I can't relate. But, y'know, I was totally trying to find you some silly nerdy porn or something, too make you not mopey, and then I realized two things: one, I don't know how to make a link on lj (cause I am computer retarded & will have to read up on the FAQs at some point, lol) and two, like no-one writes stuff like that. Or not that I could find. I mean, why don't people cater to my every whim? Why don't they?! I mean, except not, but. :)

AHAHAHA I'm so totally cracking up! OMG! *mega dork*

Date: 2004-12-09 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I knooooow!! The WEATHER, omg!!1 I'm totally getting more & more morose & escapist, haha. The onset of winter always does this to me. Well, I guess fandom was more like a... fandom, or something ^^; Now it's just a bunch of people who know each other :> At least in my corner.

Mmmm, nerdy porn. The Leaky was like that but now it's all angsty and stuff :(( WAH :(( On the plus side, there's Leaky!Draco's photos (http://boyd.invisible-cities.net/gallery/editorial/editorial.htm), especially those in the second & third row, man... half-dressed in the winter woods... about to cut a tree... looking at Haawwwyyyy >:D ahahah. That cheers me up >:D And if you want fluff, did you read this (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2165788/1/)...? It's old & unporny, but :>

Date: 2004-12-09 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
Yeah...winter usually does that to me, too, at least for a while. Then I get Christmas-y & happy. But for now I'm just quite frustrated & fidgety. I just putter around, doing nothing, wishing I was doing something. Hah. My life sure is fun. And...just...I want to write, like really write, but I keep coming up with dorky silly stuff. Which is fun, but it isn't...what I want, really. OMG I'm fun today, aren't I? Sorry. :)

Mmm hot boy pictures, that should keep me amused for at least 3 minutes. Till I start wandering around aimlessly again, lol.

Hmmm, yeah, I think I read that one a while ago. But I'm reading it again, because I do love your writing so. *sigh* That's mostly why I wish you'd be inspired, cause I'm greedy & want to read more of your writing. :)

Date: 2004-12-09 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I am writing, in a puttery sort of way ^^; It's just the finishing that's a problem, not the writing various and sundry things. Then again, I was always like this, but I used to get -so- many ideas that I finished at least some of them ^^;;
Oh, and there's some fluffy smut (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2152846/1/) and a hilarious Veela fic (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mirasfics/29393.html#cutid1), teehee >:D I have this affection for Veela!Draco that won't be denied. :9

Date: 2004-12-09 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
I know what you mean. :) Well, I am getting a lot of ideas now (whereas I'd been suffering from writer's block for, oh, 2 years till probably this past summer) but I'm still somehow not managing to finish any of them. I think (well, for me, at least) a lot of it is a sort of irrational fear, or something, cause I always have an image in my head of how I want my writing to turn out, and then it never does turn out that way. What can ya do, I guess.

Ahahaha, any time I hear 'Veela' and 'Draco' in the same sentence, I automatically snort. Which is probably sad, but the idea just amuses me. :) (As it should, I suppose.)

Date: 2004-12-09 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I usually don't finish 'cause I run out of steam, pure and simple-- or get distracted. I'm like a cat, really. Intensely concentrated for really short periods of time punctuated by long stretches of intense laziness :D However, the whole over-thinking and letting your expectations take over could probably be fixed if you like... relaxed. That or accepted your doom & wrote anyway :>

...Veela Draco is a gift from the gods for us mortals to stare at and undress mentally :D :D :D :D *bounces* I need to have a Veela Draco icon with Boyd in it ahahahah. Or not, because some people might smite me~:))

Date: 2004-12-09 08:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
Haha I love cats, though. They are fickle, and pester you for attention, and then ignore you when you finally do pay attention to them. Kind of like me, heh. Yes, I accept my doom wholeheartedly. I mean, no worries there. Except that people should be worried, y'know, cause I am...odd, & stuff. I'm writing right now, even, so although though I obsess over it, I can't not do it. (And, lol, everyone tells me to relax about my writing. I am clearly quite highly strung about it. I mean, d'ya think? Hah.)

Heee, Veela Draco is, like, even easier than regular Draco (at least in my mind), if indeed that can be true.
Boyd is the hot guy whose pictures I was just totally perving over, that you linked to, right? Mmmmboyyyy <3333 I am so easy, hahaha.

Date: 2004-12-13 02:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
wah!! :(( ♥!!
*hides again*

Date: 2004-12-13 03:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bookshop.livejournal.com

Nay! We have much work to do, grasshopper!

Date: 2004-12-13 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
BUT AJA! :(( THE SCARY PEOPLE :(( THEY BUG ME :((
*sniffles but looks resolute and also HEHEHEH EXCITED*

Date: 2004-12-13 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bookshop.livejournal.com
IT COULD BE WORSE, DUDE. I HAVE TO WRITE AN ENTIRE SONGFIC FOR MIGGY'S CHALLENGE TONIGHT. BECAUSE I AGREED TO DO TWO. BECAUSE I AM AN IDIOT.

AHAHAHA I JUST REALISED I FORGOT TO INCLUDE THE SONG I WAS WRITING ABOUT WHEN I SENT YOU THE OTHER FIC. :))

*tickles*

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