reenka: (love is)
[personal profile] reenka
It's funny to read two Harry-- er, and-- Draco fics dealing with the theme of spying and intrigue in the same night-- one angst, one fluff. One of them worked for me like a 4th of July firework, and that's [livejournal.com profile] cupiscent's `Firebrand', which is inventive, fast-paced, gritty and gripping. The thing is, it doesn't matter how far-fetched the scenario is if one develops one's core idea to the max, and Dee really does that with gorgeous rigor in a tight, effective short story.

I really love it when I read something different in H/D which avoids sacrificing characterization for ease of realization of the scenario and realistic character dynamics for romance, as well as having a fascinating plot. I can't help but love a story which features strong characters, less than nice characters-- and not ones who're 'nice' or 'not nice' divided along their roles in the story (i.e., the 'good guys' are nice while the 'bad guys' suck). It's just so tempting to make your favorite character into a beautiful misunderstood martyr, I know, but if you buck that impulse and write people as they honestly are, the result is often a thing of true beauty.

Dee's fic is vivid, unapologetic, fierce and meaty. It makes me happy to be a shipper-- someone who wants to see these two make it together because they need each other, against all odds, rather than is willing to believe in some easy fix-- much more than any shmoopy lovey-dovey romance with remorseful Draco and charitable Harry (who make sweet & passionate boylurve at first opportunity) ever could. Because while this scenario isn't necessarily any more likely than the one where Draco 'repents', one -could- project our boys as they are into it, without much need for a lobotomy. Always a good thing.

...Let's just say that the idea of Draco Malfoy in Vladivostok, wearing a grey sweater and holding an AK-47 isn't one I'll want to forget anytime soon. There's just something oddly fitting about renegade!Draco in Siberia. There is!! Also, this greeting by said sweater-wearing person--

"Hello, Potter," Draco Malfoy says. "Fancy meeting you here."

-- made me clap my hands in glee, which is a first. I just really love Draco sometimes. I just do. But especially when he's going for elegantly homicidal. <333 And I love them together, not even in a romantic sense, but in terms of bringing them into contact because they -matter- to each other-- whatever happens, whether they'd admit it or not, whether they realize it or not, they matter. This whole story is a vodka shot-- smooth and harsh and it burns all the way to your heart with seemingly effortless precision.

I do want to see 'what happens' later on, but I don't need to. The fic is more of an image-- a feeling-- a taste at the back of my tongue. Bitter, smooth, gleaming hard like steel and glitter-dry like dust in the sun.

EDIT - Incidentally, [livejournal.com profile] cupiscent's post on writing angstfic was rather helpful and inspiring, but I especially loved the bit about the writer not intending angst to make the reader cry but rather to strand them in helplessness or render them incapable of expressing an excess of seething emotion. That is rather what I've noticed about great tragedy, as well. Ahahaha, resolution is for wimps!! ;D

Date: 2004-10-03 01:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cellia.livejournal.com
Whoo! Thanks for the rec. I really liked Dee's fic, but got like *no* HD or HDish vibes off it at all. I'd almost say that Ginny loomed the largest.

It's just so tempting to make your favorite character into a beautiful misunderstood martyr,

Hm, this actually made me rethink the fic's portrayals a bit. Draco wasn't *quite* this in Firebrand, it was more... all his prejudices' solid bases were justified and all the nastier aspects were ignored (it would have been nice to see a parallel drawn in the wizarding and muggle prejudices, I think, just a sentence or adjective or look or something. I think she did do well in showing the stifling bureaucracy running through both. And how natural it was to intertwine)

I could also make weenie arguments about the likelihood of Harry and Hermione doing what they did, but really, I feel like good counter-arguments could also be brought to bear. And the *story* was so powerful in and of itself that it swept away almost all my resistance as I read.

Date: 2004-10-03 11:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Well, it's just that I -wanted- them to get together-- which is all me. This happens whenever I read a fic which has a strong 'image' of both of them (to me), so I like their characterizations enough (and whatever their interaction is in the fic) to want to see them make it together. I don't think(?) I explicitly said it was H/D, right :> They didn't spend much space within the fic talking or interacting-- but I still feel like they have potential, I guess, moreso than in some established relationship fics. I mean, Ginny loomed, yeah, but she's dead, y'know~:))

I actually did do a double-take at myself when I wrote that line, too. I realize Draco was sleek & attractive in his dark-rebel sort of way (as was Snape, and even Pansy). Really, even though it was Harry pov, Harry was the least 'likable' character (for me) 'cause what he did was so distasteful to me-- and yeah I don't think he'd do it, but since he -did-, even though nothing would turn me off him, I was still disappointed in him, y'know? Like yeah, the story swept away my resistence... and like I sort of said, it might be a far-out unlikely premise, but it works with what it takes as a given in a rigorous way. When I said it wasn't anymore likely than the spyfic with 'redeemed' Draco, I meant that precise thing-- I don't think they'd do what they did. But then, neither would Draco Malfoy do what he did in Olivia's fic.

Like, the fic is... not quite finished-feeling and Draco's... not that well detailed/painted, partly 'cause it's not his story, precisely... and I'm usually semi-dissatisfied with Dee's Draco, anyway, so maybe that's for the best ^^;; It's not school!Draco, to be sure, but then, neither is it school!Harry or Ginny or Pansy. Snape was great, though, I thought.

Date: 2004-10-03 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cellia.livejournal.com
Oh Snape was mucho with the coolness. The detail about his dark mark worked into a tattoo was the one that stuck with me the most. And I found myself thinking the most about Ginny. I think I have a weakness for a character-shaped hole in a story, though, and what it does to the other characters (like in circe_tigana's "Revisionism" series).

Much agreement with your thoughts on Harry. For some authors, I just mentally adjust myself to the idea that they will handle certain characters certain ways (Draco really cool, Harry really a quivering innocent etc etc). Then it's just a matter of which interpretations I can live with and enjoy, OOC or maybe-this-is-possible-after-character-extrapolation aside. For example, quivering innocent Harry is ok by me, not because I think it's always the best characterization, but because it pushes my buttons. :D

Then again, some really skilled authors handle characters in ways that just set my teeth on edge, and I just have to stop reading. Their skill only twists the knife of their oogy idea that much deeper.

Date: 2004-10-03 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I think I was scarred by extreme badness in uke!Harry fics-- like Vinagrette's with the weepy!Harry-who's-desperate-for-Draco's-approval. That sort of still scares me ><;;; It's like, innocent doesn't mean wussy. I hate wussies. DIE WUSSIES DIE. GAR. *bares teeth* Okay, no, not really, but that was fun. :>

I know about the skill & the oogy idea (AHAHAH OOGY!!)
...Man. But I'm a whore for style so I read it anyway -.-

Date: 2004-10-03 02:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sympathetic-ink.livejournal.com
[starts laughing]

so that's the coincidence! [dies]

Date: 2004-10-03 06:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
You don't know how much I loved to find this post after what you forced (I am so oppressed) me to read, though admittedly the whole experience was more funny than anything else.

...it makes me want to not have Harry and Draco fuck like, ever. And then Moody (their spymaster) would be like, CONSTANT ERECTION whenever they dare eyeing each other less than professionally. /lame joke

Off to read good spyfic!

Date: 2004-10-03 11:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
...I do hope you think it's good. *is afeared, omg*
har. BUT AT LEAST YOU CAN'T SAY YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT 'CAUSE THE DRACO WASN'T (er, bottom) ENOUGH FOR YOU <3 HAR.

Date: 2004-10-03 11:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
Hey, I started to read and it seems really cool, but then got distracted by shiny things (XF season 2 DVDs omg! Jaded Mulder laughing at Fake Green Krycek's stuffy outfits = <3).

He could still be OOC, you know. :/ It's not the bottomness I protest (that's my gonad protesting) but the coolness, in that rpg you linked me to. It's the same with Bond Draco, but everyone has their buttons, right. I just have a grudge against this tendency some sections of fandom (and mainstream culture as well) have to write everyone as The Fonzie. Don't beat me, I don't mean you.

Date: 2004-10-03 11:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
...Sometimes people write Draco so not-cool I can't take it. Or so cool I can't take it. It's all about making him the right sort of cool~:)) AHAHAHAH. Cool but with uncool spots. Human. Hopefully also amusing and hot (to me). :D :D :D :D
I really didn't think Bond!Draco was that cool. He could be (hahah, like in Snitch!) but he... wasn't. Bond!Draco wouldn't need Harry to save him, see. Bond!Draco would be stealing Harry's wand while Harry kissed him. Bond!Draco would use Harry's affection against him, bedding him then escaping, etc etc. That Draco was a complete Hufflepuff.

Dee's Draco is pretty Slytherin in his coolness, at least :>

Date: 2004-10-03 12:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
You know I am not talking about Dee's fic or your Draco. :) I was just going off my typical tangent about mainstream culture's populist evils, and the compulsive need to have APPEAL - have you notice how often it seems like the writer is writing the same character all over, like, everybody's COOL, and they NEVER fail, and they ADORE each other, and they have PERFECT sex, the end. Ahaha, I know it wasn't Bond Draco in that fic, but it's pretty obvious the author was going for that. She just isn't very good.

*steals back flag*

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Date: 2004-10-03 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shaggirl.livejournal.com
Haha, I know the other spy fic you read, and as much as the author's version/vision of Draco is not my version/vision, I cannot help but love such unapologetic cliche. :P

Date: 2004-10-03 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Usually it's her writing-style/execution that bothers me more than the clichedness of the idea itself, though. I mean, Dee's concept/characterizations weren't necessarily mine either, but she was rigorous and precise, y'know? :> It counteracts the questionability of the concept pretty well. Whereas I don't think the other fic suceeded at actually implementing its own cliche :>

Date: 2004-10-04 07:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shaggirl.livejournal.com
Based on comments she made while the fic was being written/beta'd, my impression was that she knew the cliche was completely silly, so I didn't approach it from the perspective that my suspension of disbelief was required, I guess. And, I thought the smut was rather nice. :\

Date: 2004-10-04 10:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Nono, what I'm saying isn't that `it's silly, omg, she didn't know!', 'cause I can tell she knew, but it's like... mer? It wasn't the concept so much as the execution...? I should say I'm deeply biased against purplish prose re: smut ^^;;;

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Date: 2004-10-04 09:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
Haha, you've been listening to a lot of cover songs lately, seems like...'Blackbird' and then 'Paint it Black'. You should so listen to Ryan Adams' cover of 'Wonderwall'. It's so beautiful and minimalistic, and just...*sigh*.

Yay, I'm totally going to read your rec next, cause it sounds good and also cause I'm a Total Procrastinator today, OMG. So sad. (It's like, I was totally being good and writing and then it started running away on me and turning porny and now I'm scared of it and aughhh whyyy does everything turn into porn whyyy?! Not that it's a bad thing that I'm a ho, but... *ahem* I meant. Um. I'll be okay. Eventually. Hehe.)

the bit about the writer not intending angst to make the reader cry but rather to strand them in helplessness or render them incapable of expressing an excess of seething emotion.

Dude, I just had this convo with a friend of mine the other day. Totally. And we were also wondering how can someone say, for example: 'I'm going to write angst!' You know? I mean, obviously I do have a vision for whatever I'm writing, but I just don't like to label it that directly. (I don't really like labels for most things, I suppose...) But I feel as though it's sort of a cop-out to the writing to say 'this is [whatever].' Hm. I dunno. Probably that's just me. :)

Date: 2004-10-04 03:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
It's a coincidence, hehe, though I kind of like that cover of `Sound of Silence' by... er, the Coffee House Gypsies I think. And oh, I love Hole's cover of `It's All Over Now, Baby Blue'. Well, I like Ryan Adams more than Oasis, so maybe that'll work out ^^;

Everything often either does turn porny or refuses to when I try. The world is cruel :D Porn is a cruel mistress :D

I know what you mean though-- I've written posts about how I dislike labelling and such-- I mean, I've never tried to write any particular sort of fic, though when I'm in a sarcastic dorky mood, I ain't writing no War and Peace, so to speak :> That is to say, I don't like labels, but tragedy is a very specific and obvious genre, like comedy, which has its own... trends, I guess? Like, separate from those which just govern short stories/novels/etc in general. Like... Hamlet, say, or Oedipus-- pretty straightforward as far as the tragedy/angst. Most people write less straightforward things of course. I kind of like the purity sometimes, though really I kind of hate tragedy. I admire the dedication to form and honesty of portrayal, I guess? Like, no easy answers is always a good motto. Or something like that :>

Date: 2004-10-05 10:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stellabelle.livejournal.com
Yeah, I just really like Ryan Adams cause - to me, at least - he's kinda a throwback to the singer/songwriters (in the vein of Bob Dylan, etc). He's so talented and so totally rock star. (OMG, I have a weakness for rock star boys, yum. Hehe.)

Oh God, I hate the porn at the moment. HATE. I was writing this one fic that was supposed to be serious (it was, I swear!) and it was all oh-poor-Harry and Draco-you-wanker and WHY ARE THEY BOFFING IN THE SHOWER OMG MAKE IT STOP!! And then...they keep going cause I think they enjoy mocking me, the bastards. *breathes* I can't ever post this shit, though. For real.

Yeah, I agree re the tragedy being obvious in terms of label/genre and all. And angst too, I think, to a certain extent. I mean, I suppose it's just...I don't like labels in general, and not just for writing. But at the same time, things have to have labels, cause that's how people understand/relate/associate/etc. It's all about socialization, really. I make it sound like I'm all anti-establishment, like: 'Just let it be, man, it's cool' but I'm totally not. I just don't like confining things...or, like, knowing that there's limits, maybe? Hm. Yeah, I guess that's pretty much it. :)

Date: 2004-10-05 11:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
HEEEEEEE. Now you realize, I have to see this?? `Boffing in the shower'?? More tantalizing words can never be spoken to an craven H/D porn-writer ahahahah :D Wanna seeeee. And maybe I can say something to help you along. Or just, y'know, not ;)) But still! Anyway, more constructively, don't try to force the story to be something it's not-- usually one's muse does things for a reason, or something, y'konw. And maybe this fic wants to be something else, but that doesn't mean it's -bad- :>

Well, it's like... I totally dig what you're saying (me and limits?? GAR... this is partly why I can't even stand the top/bottom thing in H/D, 'cause it's like WHY IS IT ALWAYS ONE OR THE OTHER?? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHYYYYYYY??...er) but with tragedy & comedy, it's like, stylized-- in realism there are no limits, see, but in stylized literature it's like sonnet-writing-- you have these boundaries because that's part of the exercise of the writing, see what I mean? When you write a sonnet (or a tragedy), -sure-, you could be writing free-verse, but you're not. But you could be. So it's not really a limit so much as a temporary delineation for contrast purposes, y'know~:)

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Date: 2004-10-04 11:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] newmint.livejournal.com
Ahh, that's jsut what I've been trying to vocalise for such a long time about angst... the horrible, heart-in-throat, choking-on emotions feeling at the end of a really fulfilling angstfic, the way you want to wail and wail and wail and can't find any way of exorcising the huge, horrible mass of helpless, raging, despair. And yes, that post does pain angst as (greek) sort of tragedy, with the protagonist creating their own downfall.

Date: 2004-10-04 03:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
....Though, to be brutally honest, I don't actually -like- that feeling ><;;
It's just I like the sort of unflinching honesty in a portrayal better than something that's 'just depressing' like people falling out of love or something. I generally prefer people to fight their own worst natures and win-- realistically-- but eh, can't have everything :>

Date: 2004-10-05 11:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] newmint.livejournal.com
It's not very cathartic, but sort of what I want/need when I'm wallowing in Teh Angst. As long as the person who gets taken over by their worst nature gets their come-uppance in some form at the end - ie some form of resolution, I like it. When someone who's lost to the worst parts of their character gets away with seemingly no punishment, everything just sort of goes one, then I can't deal with it - why I had such an emotional probelem with Waugh's A Handful of Dust.

Date: 2004-10-05 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com
I'm like that too, so I understand perfectly what you're saying. I think it's a matter of... sense of fairness, maybe, however misplaced it can look (or be!) to peoppe less oriented to want the world to be a better place. Or maybe I'm just putting stuff in your mouth. In that case I apologise!

But I know that perceived unjustice kills me more, emotionally, than torture and death and loneliness. It's just bleak.

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Date: 2004-10-12 03:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notrafficlights.livejournal.com
..Let's just say that the idea of Draco Malfoy in Vladivostok, wearing a grey sweater and holding an AK-47 isn't one I'll want to forget anytime soon. There's just something oddly fitting about renegade!Draco in Siberia.

Holy shiznit. I must read this fic. I love fics that are really removed from Hogwarts like this. Not in the "Harry and co go to Disneyland" kind of fic, but in the "So-and-so's become a drug-lord in Thailand" kind of crazy scenario. Has to be plausible, of course (I really don't like the "Daddy kicked me out cos I'm gay" thing that seems to happen with Draco all the time) but yeah.

Oh, and have you read Acts Infernal? I just finished reading it and am still going "omg omg omg" in my head. I think I like it most because it's so IC it's kinda H/D kinda not... which is good! *cough* Anyway I will stop stalking you now and go over here... *does so*

Date: 2004-10-12 09:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I totally know what you mean about the Thailand thing!! DUDE!! I still remember that fic (...totally forgot the name/place) where Harry wakes up completely disoriented in a post-Apocalypse world, and he's in the middle of Australian desert-- and of course Draco is there. OMG.

Nah, I haven't heard of `Acts Infernal', but I guess I'll look for it, then~:)

Date: 2004-10-12 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] notrafficlights.livejournal.com
Go here Go here go here (http://glassesreflect.net/hd/actsinfernal.html) and REEAADDD!
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