[ahhh, first wank. *cue premature nostalgia music* -.-!!]

[reenka]

I'm afraid to read this. I fear one more discussion on fanon!Draco (vs. canon!Draco) and I'll really bite through my own tongue or something. Yes, I officially Can't Take It Anymore, and yet it calls to me. Rant, Reena, RANT! RANT ABOUT FANON!DRACO SOME MORE, WE ALL KNOW YOU WANT TO. (noooooo *runs away* stay awaaaaayyyy..!) Um. I'm sure it's a perfectly reasonable, normal discussion. Really. Just because I have the heebee-jeebees and start to sweat at the very mention of fanon!Draco doesn't mean anything. Really. Okay, I'm exaggerating a little... maybe. -.-


It's not that I don't like any version of him, because clearly I do. I don't even set out to write non-fanon!Draco myself, because I don't. I just write him like I see him at the time, and whatever makes sense at the moment-- I really don't think about characterization much when I write. Probably because I don't actually think much when I write, period. And "fanon" is a huge term that encompasses every Draco that is not JKR's, actually (that is, just 'cause it's "fanon" doesn't mean it's "out-of-character"). On top of everything else, I don't like canon Draco (much). But. I -hate- (hate... hate... HATE) the character most people mean by fanon!Draco, because they don't seem to mean any of the ones I've loved, given the sorts of traits he has (poncey, cool, sophisticated, self-controlled, blah-blah).

Just yesterday, Adora said that it seems like I'm on a path trying to write The Most Unlikable H/D evah... heh. There might be something to that... and there might be something to the idea that I'm doing it partly as a backlash against fanon!H/D. And clearly fanon!Draco is all about making Draco more likable, right. Except most (not all! but most!) writers that try it are totally pants at it, what can I tell you. They just are, okay. Everything I know or imagine I know about Harry tells me he'd laugh at poncey-and-cool!Draco and not give him a second glance (except to laugh). It's not that opposites don't attract, it's just... Harry isn't missing this. This isn't what he needs, so the idea that (that kind of) fanon!Draco "fits" Harry is entirely ridiculous and based entirely on a certain type of reader's response. It's not based around canon!Harry's most probable response as far as I can see.

It seems like such a cop-out to say that you need to perfect or improve a character to make him perfectly suited to another character, if anything because no one is perfectly suited to anyone! That's crazy messed-up Harlequin talk, man! Snap out of it! People are messy and pissy and unpretty and beautiful, isn't that what reading any real literature shows us? And isn't the very difficulty of making people connect, and especially these two people, the whole point of even trying?

And like I said, I don't even like Draco as-is, and I want him to change and grow up and become his own person that both I & Harry could respect... but why does this mean he has to become cool? Why?! Tell me this, fandom, though... I don't want to understand anymore (even though, blah, I do)! Harry isn't 'cool' to start with! Harry's a dork, a psycho, a normal teenage boy with issues and insecurities and a few rage problems, you know, here and there! Why does he need a smooth operator to sex him up like a love machine, man?! Oh right, because this is all 'fantasy' and our collective happy escapist joy-ride, right. Who wants real people, anyway?! Real people smell!

...Though I admit I may be going a bit overboard with just how messed-up my Harry and Draco have become lately. It's really more me than them though, ahahah.
~~

EDIT - Er. Well. I um... "read it" now. Er. I can't believe I was this wanky, but. It had to happen sometime....?? Er?? *FACEPALM OMG*

Comments

[malafede.livejournal.com]

Oh, I can see how she wanted the conversation to stay cool, but honestly, weren't you disagreeing with her main point? that harry "needs" this draco? ehehe, i actually can't believe you found yourself arguing that side given the number of times we've discussed about this very subject. okay, i actually can believe it, because i am just too fascist on this for words. and maybe it's true that you shouldn't make simple, moralistic judgments on people -- but honestly, that's exactly what i think about ice prince cool draco. people like the shine. they don't like the draco from canon, because he doesn't shine. maybe it's not morals as much as simple sociology.

and, hi. :)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hi :>
Man, how wanky was that?? I LINKED HER TO THE FIC WHERE I SAID "THIS IS GOOD, IT REFUTES THAT ESSAY". *facepalm!!*
...Like I told you, yeah. Hahah, it was a bit... er... disconcerting to be bringing up a lot of your arguments ^^;; Not even on purpose!!

I think saying Harry needs fanon!Draco is really going that extra mile that makes me snap, or something. Apparently. I mean, Harry needing Draco is a humonguous jump to start with, and I'd really rather my baby wasn't said to need that... boy -.- ahahahah I realize I'm ridiculously sure he doesn't want him or need him, but... I hope I didn't sound fascist. God. I was just strident ^^;;; I thought.

What I disagreed with was usually your whole uh, method & some of your conclusions (about people, fandom, fics, etc) rather than the base foundation? I think it's a question of angle rather than uh, the figure itself, as we've discovered before. I wasn't meaning to judge her or anyone, though apparently I've a way of coming off that way. Ahahah and here I was certain I was good cop to your bad cop ^^;;;

But. Yeah, I feel better now. Like, in a larger sense, too. I just realized I'm okay with it all, now that I've actually blow up in public. Go figure.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

man, you were a lot more conciliating and open than most people are in these wanks! remember, the bad cop is me.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, that's cause I didn't mean to wank at her. I just meant to say NO YOU'RE WRONG :)) ...Which isn't necessarily the same thing. I thought.

Plus I wanted to be told if -I- was wrong; so if cold-cool-sexy!Draco needs Harry, bring it on-- tell me why. But no, she was like, 'you don't have to agree'. And I'm like... yeah... and? But I suppose it's that this is all subjective, etcetc, so how can you argue it? But! She was assuming it was true as a precept, that you could say that fanon!Draco needs Harry... oh wait, that's the thing. AHAHAH THAT'S WHY IT UPSETS ME AHAHAHAH YES I FIGURED IT OUT!!!

IT'S BECAUSE IT FLIP-FLOPS THE NEED!!! INSTEAD OF DRACO NEEDING HARRY, HERE HARRY NEEDS DRACO!!! YES!! THAT'S WHAT I HATE WITH ALL THE PASSION IN MY HEART BECAUSE IT IS SO WRONG!!! YES! IT IS DRACO THAT NEEDS HARRY! NEVER THE OTHER (FIRST)!

[malafede.livejournal.com]

harry needs draco. <3

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, that's why I said 'first' ^^; Um. It's a question of shifting the need/seeking role from Draco to Harry. Since Draco is now so cool, Harry is all impressed and seeks after him, much like Draco thought -Harry- was So Cool and he had to seek after -him- (whatever, in a meta sense). Y'know. That's what I meant-- it's the emphasis on who's the spark or whatever. To me, Draco was always the spark.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

i was just teasing. ^^;; that always fails lately. sorry. ^^;

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...I really am unclear a lot, though ^^;; I thought you might be teasing but I wanted to be extra sure. Um. But you don't have to be sorry :>

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

oddly, I really really agree with what you say in your comments on that other journal. I especially agree with how by shifting Draco, you shift who Harry has to be.

"ponceyiceprince!Draco", yeah, that's the guy I hate. Right on the nose there.

Ok, though, how could Draco ever be a "normal" person? Wouldn't the introduction of that idea follow in the heels of some sort of AUing? I mean, a big Auing. Draco at 15 has already been emotionally and intellectually conditioned that he's not going to just "see the light" and be "normal". Please explain further.

What I find odd about your take on H/D interaction is that you like it at all. I mean, all of the things that you say about fanon Draco (and the warping of Harry's character) are the very things I have alwasy said about why I can't buy the pairing from the get go.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think when I said I wanted him to be 'normal' I meant as in, 'following the course of natural development', not 'normal' as in, uh, 'like everyone else'. That is, I don't think people who have traditional morality are 'normal', they're just trained in a certain way. And it's not like I think Draco's morally 'wrong' or that he's amoral-- he's clearly been conditioned by his father and general upbringing to parrot and/or believe certain things, but I don't think that defines his personality. I just want him to grow up and learn to think for himself a little and nudge at his conditioning some; this doesn't mean he becomes all about goodness and light (well, Harry isn't either, so that works out) but just... y'know, more intelligent :> It's all about self-realization (for me).

As for why I ship H/D... ahahaha. I never said they were easy, obvious or even likely-- but I like the challenge, the contrast between them and the idea that if they did learn to understand where the other was coming from, that's a real accomplishment-- that'd really mean something (in general and for them). I mean, I'm pretty optimistic about them, 'cause they're still kids, y'know, and especially Draco; they've got their whole life ahead of them to change their minds about each other, even if they don't do it about anything else they believe (which they probably will).

It's like... I think that Draco's clearly obsessed with Harry on some level, and Harry definitely has a lot of issues and prejudices that Draco has represented from the get-go. And it's this very barrier between them that I like, if that makes sense. Any attempt to make the barrier lighter is a cheat and not what I want from H/D at all; I want all their problems and improbabilities out in the open, so I can see them shot at like a flock of birds. Perhaps they'll never work out, but to me that's not the point. It's sort of like struggling against fate, y'know? Living itself is like that; you play a losing game, and you don't play to win-- you just play to play.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think maybe you're using the word "need" different than she is...like I think her point is that obviously fandom "needed" this character because people came up with him and he won't go away. She came up with him and then all these other people did too, so it wasn't just a case of somebody reading one person's version and then writing their own. Generally the things that become fanon are the things that "take" somehow. Like with Draco there's tons of Draco stories where he's weepy and sad with big puppy eyes, and while that version's made fun of, he's not what people mean when they say Fanon!Draco.

Her saying he "fits better" with Harry is obviously just her opinion, but I think the post is sort of asking the question of all the people who have preferred him or used him. Like you suggested that they don't like canon!Draco and probably a lot of them don't, but a lot of them do like him--Maya, for instance, loves Canon!Draco and yet UL!Draco is considered King of Fandom Draco by a lot of people. For me, I can see him as fanon but I also see him coming straight from canon.

I think also there's all those superficial parts of Draco that canon doesn't touch. I can't see him growing up and losing all the flaws of his current personality, but I think I do assume he could become cooler on the outside with a lot of fanon!Draco's superficial qualities, so maybe those don't bother me as much. So if somebody wants to have fun with that part of him I can see why they're writing Draco and not Blaise or Theodore, and having him be with Harry.

Today I was thinking that in a way in those fics Draco can be more be about representing the old WW in a different way than he does in canon, showing the more beautiful aspects of it instead of just the barbaric side, if that makes sense. Maybe fandom's problem is they mostly think it has to be one or the other when the challenge is to combine the two.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

It's just... okay, I think a lot of different fanon!Dracos 'fit' with Harry which aren't ice-prince!Draco... like Ivy's, Cassie Claire's, Amalin's, Penguin's, Aja's, Penelope's, Rhysenn's, even Maya's. And Maya is a special case completely because she thinks she's writing canon!Draco, so she's not consciously changing anything, which to me is a crucial part of what really bugs me about the contrast between fanon & canon Draco. These writers are aware of the separation; they are consciously steering the character in some direction, whereas Maya isn't. That is like, central to my discontent, utterly central.

Anyway, on some level I definitely knew what she was saying but got carried away, obviously. I wasn't just saying that people think fanon!Draco fits Harry 'cause the writers don't like the canon version-- I was saying that this is part of a romance fantasy where Harry gets the 'ideal man' (that is, the opposite of canon!Draco in some basic aspects like emotional make-up), so of course Harry would like him since he no longer possesses the things he hated about the original version.

That's why you have all these stories point out that Draco came back different, and Harry notices and gradually (or suddenly) realizes that hey, this Draco's not so bad (well, of course he isn't, not when he's not doing the things that annoyed Harry to start with!) And that's what cheeses me off so much, y'know? How is that H/D? It's H/D-idealized-to-the-teeth-and-with-good-muscle-tone-thank-you-very-much. Take away anyone's pesky faults and they become a sex god, I guess.

So to me, it's not a superficial change at all, and I do think that most fanon-ice-prince!Draco versions that I've read have him lose most of his flaws from canon, if not all. He's so cool and collected that now Harry has to chase after him, which just reads like a total revenge fantasy of sorts where people identify with Draco and his former crush and say, 'well, see how you like it, Harry Potter!' It's not only that this fanon!Draco's 'cooler' on the outside-- almost every time, he really -is- that blase, that 'mature', and he's become more rational and witty and by the way he's gorgeous as all fuck and instead of looking like a vicar, Harry thinks he looks like a god, and oh he's not worthy of him now (I've seen this!! I am still scarred!)

Basically, it's not only that Draco changes for the better (oh, always, always for the better), it's that Harry's typical reactions change drastically too, making Harry OOC. That's why fanon!Draco worked for me in Transfigurations where he didn't in almost any other fic, because Harry hated him; he thought he was a stupid, ridiculous ponce and what the hell did anyone else see in him now? Harry liked him less for being cool and sophisticated. And I was like, YES!! YES!! YESSSSSSSS!!1 Finally, some H/D with a brain! Um.

Anyway, I think people like ice-prince!Draco 'cause they think he's cool, so of -course- Harry thinks he's cool. He's your basic Gary Stu and that's all there is to it, for me; he's fantasy fodder, a renamed Fabio who can wine and dine and charm with the best of them, who's oh-so Aloof And Unavailable but able to be overcome in spite of himself by the Plucky, Endearingly Goofy Heroine. That's the scenario that makes me see red, right there. If that's Draco now or 100 years from now, then I'm his Aunt Matilda.

Though I appreciate when Draco's background and the whole pureblood aspect of things gets more depth, it doesn't require cool-ass Draco at all to happen. There are lots of writers who go in depth about Draco's background and don't make him an ice-prince (like uh, ethrosdemon & hackthis' earlier stuff, penelope_z, olympia_m, too). Olympia especially wrote a really fleshed out Draco with a rich patina of culture all about him, and he was sooooooooo not an ice-prince. Mind you, I can't tell you that's my favorite story 'cause duuuude, do I have a thing about cheating >.<;;