(not Luna??!)
Jun. 23rd, 2004 05:57 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaYou know what's really kind of silly? (I make this mistake a lot, btw.) Over-identifying with people I like (or, characters, but I won't even get into that). I mean, at heart, it's just a faulty assumption-type thing. Over-generalizing is often at the root of most evil along with the usual drive for power and fear of death (but I won't get into that, heh).
I mean, I'm not Luna. Rinse & repeat three times, as necessary: I'm not Luna. I'm not Luna. I'm not Luna. Woo, what a relief. (Btw, if anyone wants a Luna-centric fic, I just found `Butterbeer Caps', which seems good.)
I keep trying to root it out of me (well, half-heartedly), but it won't go.
So if I see someone who seems to "get" the beauty of Buffy/Spike -aaaand- the beauty of Kyou/Tohru, all of a sudden I'm like, OMG WE R SOULM8ES!!1 (well... sort of), and then I'm crashing down to earth 'cause they also like Heero/Relena (OMG TEH EVAL, OMG) and Harry/Luna (which... isn't -bad-, precisely, just really not... romantic at all). But that's because I a) shouldn't extrapolate someone's view on romance just from a couple of things they believe (and I don't even know if they believe the same things I do about said relationships); b) shouldn't project myself so blatantly onto Luna (or whatever character) that I feel a bit silly shipping her with -anyone-. (I mean, I should know-- Luna "just isn't ready"). On the other hand, if you made Luna darker-- or better yet, mad (OMG PLOT BUNNY)-- you could do a Hamlet/Ophelia thing. Woo, I can see Ophelia!Luna. But then she'd have to die :D
It seems either people heavily identify with each other, thus kind of stealing another person's individual identity in a way, or they project their vision of the Other (that is to say, their ideals of what's perfectly Attractive-- or horrid-- in someone else), thus idealizing them past the point of possessing any real humanity. Bleh.
I don't even know if many people define themselves or rather, see a trend of similar rationales for the "way they ship" like I do. That is to say, every ship I believe in fits into a trend in my mind, of the way I generally perceive "romance" in the first place. Because, as should be obvious, pretty much -everything- is premade 'meta' a.k.a. 'on Plato's crack' in my head. :>
Basically, all the couples I like have something about their "spirit" in common, so I assume if someone likes more than one example of romance as I do, we must both be seeing this "spirit" (which makes me think we're ourselves compatible for friendship).
So that's why it boggles my mind that people can possibly like Buffy/Spike (a passionate, fighting-opposites-attract tragicomic sort of insane romance) and Heero/Relena (a lukewarm, idealize-your-anima/animus, the-hero-gets-the-girl cliche). It's like, duuude, Heero/Duo is much more like B/S (in my head)-- 'cause like, they're opposites-yet-equals in the whole complementary cliche sort of way.
Then it occurs to me to rethink Heero/Relena, and possibly you can see how Buffy/Spike can also be about the idealizing-the-anima cliche from Spike's pov (though that's not what I like about the pairing at all), and suddenly it all makes sense. You can definitely see how Heero/Relena is like Kyou/Tohru, which I adore (ACK ACK ACK STOP ABORT PANIC). In fact, I tend to blatantly ignore the unhealthyness of a boy idealizing his female love interest and focus on their disagreements and the romantic friction-- bleh, thus leading myself into a quagmire (I used a big word!) of sloppy thinking & projection-onto-perfectly-innocent-characters.
Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
But it all makes sense in my head, I SWEAR!!1
I mean, I'm not Luna. Rinse & repeat three times, as necessary: I'm not Luna. I'm not Luna. I'm not Luna. Woo, what a relief. (Btw, if anyone wants a Luna-centric fic, I just found `Butterbeer Caps', which seems good.)
I keep trying to root it out of me (well, half-heartedly), but it won't go.
So if I see someone who seems to "get" the beauty of Buffy/Spike -aaaand- the beauty of Kyou/Tohru, all of a sudden I'm like, OMG WE R SOULM8ES!!1 (well... sort of), and then I'm crashing down to earth 'cause they also like Heero/Relena (OMG TEH EVAL, OMG) and Harry/Luna (which... isn't -bad-, precisely, just really not... romantic at all). But that's because I a) shouldn't extrapolate someone's view on romance just from a couple of things they believe (and I don't even know if they believe the same things I do about said relationships); b) shouldn't project myself so blatantly onto Luna (or whatever character) that I feel a bit silly shipping her with -anyone-. (I mean, I should know-- Luna "just isn't ready"). On the other hand, if you made Luna darker-- or better yet, mad (OMG PLOT BUNNY)-- you could do a Hamlet/Ophelia thing. Woo, I can see Ophelia!Luna. But then she'd have to die :D
It seems either people heavily identify with each other, thus kind of stealing another person's individual identity in a way, or they project their vision of the Other (that is to say, their ideals of what's perfectly Attractive-- or horrid-- in someone else), thus idealizing them past the point of possessing any real humanity. Bleh.
I don't even know if many people define themselves or rather, see a trend of similar rationales for the "way they ship" like I do. That is to say, every ship I believe in fits into a trend in my mind, of the way I generally perceive "romance" in the first place. Because, as should be obvious, pretty much -everything- is premade 'meta' a.k.a. 'on Plato's crack' in my head. :>
Basically, all the couples I like have something about their "spirit" in common, so I assume if someone likes more than one example of romance as I do, we must both be seeing this "spirit" (which makes me think we're ourselves compatible for friendship).
So that's why it boggles my mind that people can possibly like Buffy/Spike (a passionate, fighting-opposites-attract tragicomic sort of insane romance) and Heero/Relena (a lukewarm, idealize-your-anima/animus, the-hero-gets-the-girl cliche). It's like, duuude, Heero/Duo is much more like B/S (in my head)-- 'cause like, they're opposites-yet-equals in the whole complementary cliche sort of way.
Then it occurs to me to rethink Heero/Relena, and possibly you can see how Buffy/Spike can also be about the idealizing-the-anima cliche from Spike's pov (though that's not what I like about the pairing at all), and suddenly it all makes sense. You can definitely see how Heero/Relena is like Kyou/Tohru, which I adore (ACK ACK ACK STOP ABORT PANIC). In fact, I tend to blatantly ignore the unhealthyness of a boy idealizing his female love interest and focus on their disagreements and the romantic friction-- bleh, thus leading myself into a quagmire (I used a big word!) of sloppy thinking & projection-onto-perfectly-innocent-characters.
Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
But it all makes sense in my head, I SWEAR!!1
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no subject
Date: 2004-06-24 02:23 am (UTC)a lukewarm, idealize-your-anima/animus, the-hero-gets-the-girl cliche
I ship Heero/Relena, and am sort of resenting your assumption that 1) that's the concept behind H/R, and 2) that's the impetus behind all H/R shippers. Because it's not. Like... a lot of people think H/D is sentimental drivel. And I am like, wtf, mate? It's the nastiest most messed up thing in the world! But trying to put myself in their feet, I actually see why they would perceive H/D as sappy and cliched. This doesn't mean I agree. Cognitive dissonance, learn to love it. ;)
So what I am trying to say, it's possible me and you ship H/D for completely different reasons (kinks?), and this is why we also ship differently in other fandoms (even in HP fandom, as I don't care one bit for Ron/Hr and it's actually starting to creep me, and I won't even get into the S/R issue). Like - you think H/D is all about opposites attracting, or that's just the biggest factor, but for me it's not, it's the impossibility, it's the monster-factor, it's what I think love is. Also! Because I am invested in one concept, it doesn't mean I can't be invested in other themes. Yeah, I like the self accepting the other, but I also care for understatement as opposed to pointless drama, and humanity as opposed to ideals and compassion, and peace embracing the soldier, and ugliness as part of our baggage as humans, and silliness for the same reasons. That's why I ship Heero/Relena.
And to explain this further: I'm really finding it difficult to follow your discussions of Heero/Duo because I find myself wondering if we were even watching the same series. Which isn't meant to ridiculise you, but rather to give another example of how perceptions vary.
I sort of ship Kyo/Tohru, except Tohru's really starting to get on my nerves, and anyway I like Kyo/Yuki more. Shigure/Hatori's were the fun's at.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-24 02:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-06-24 12:07 pm (UTC)Yeah, I try to love cognitive dissonance all the time, but it's hard 'cause my mind naturally tends towards harmony and generalization. Heh. I try to fight it (as I said) but I just like putting things together and seeing patterns and such. Mer.
I can see myself liking H/R if they had personal chemistry-- i.e., if it was another story. I freely admit I don't actually even like canon beyond the characterizations you have to work with in fanfic, ahahahah. This is how I was for a long, long time with HP, so like, w00t, progress. I think there are all these valid reasons for why they have "issues" together that are interesting to explore (Heero & Relena I mean), but they're not -romantic- issues, to me. Romance isn't all that's interesting to me either (though it's hard to believe, I know) but romance (passionate love vs. other sorts of love) -is- about self vs. other chemistry & pointless drama, eheheh.
I love H/D for all sorts of reasons, you should know that by now, although like... I haven't written a why-I-love-H/D post for ages now... there's some here (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=reenka&keyword=harry/draco&filter=all). I wasn't really discussing 1x2 here at all-- or any pairing. I find the best way to "explain" 1x2 is to read good fic for them, and same for H/D, actually, ahaha. There -is- no real romance between anyone in the series, so too many discussions of canon seem counterproductive since it's all extrapolation anyway. 1x2 is a more personal-growth oriented pairing-- like, they're both messed up but I think they can make each other forget and they can grow up together. They can sort of be two boys with scars they both understand without needing to talk about it. But like I said, good fics are the only 'proof' :> Plus, Relena is not at all the type of girl I like-- but that doesn't usually impact my shipping. Like, I may not love Tohru (though I like her), but I can ship her if I think the other person's feelings towards her are important, intense feelings. I think after the last ep, Kyo/Tohru was like... yeah. *siiiiigh* I love Kyo/Yuki too, of course, how could I not? It's my only OT3 :> :>
I love romance which deals with the "monster-factor"-- in fact, that's one of my favorite themes, archetypically-- ala `Beauty and the Beast' and Kyo/Tohru (heeeee). Usually in this sort of romance, the other person would possess an exceptional amount of kindness and inner strength and faith, and the monster/boy would need her to understand that he's -not- a monster after all. Her love would kind of... release him from a sort of self-bondage. My problem is probably that I don't see this self-hatred vs. acceptance dynamic in GW, since it's much more about morals and ideals and what's "right" and "true" and Heero & Relena just have different philosophical stances. Relena's pacifism seems more political than emotional, like Tohru's. If that makes sense. Bleh. So while Duo may not bring any sort of peace, he seems more likely to bring acceptance of what -is-; of Heero's reality. Again, I'm probably not making sense. Mostly it's just about the personality friction dynamic I enjoy.
I think I just ship H/D for more diverse and manifold reasons than I ship other peirings I haven't spent as much time thinking about. At this point, I ship H/D for just about every reason there is, both personal and idealogical-- so it's opposites attracting (the snark and the bounce and the chemistry) and the idea of accepting the Other & one's own darkness & blah-blah-the-rest. I can't let go of the snark, though. People have to be "good together", hehehe, to be fun to write about for me. It's a 'bounce' thang. I say po-tay-to, you say po-tah-to, that's what makes a romance sing :D etc. Like... the thing that S/R & R/Hr & 1x2 have in common (for me) is that I ship them for personal-chemistry rather than idealism reasons. They kinda... bounce off each other. Wheeee! Love as a form of good dialogue~:)
I'm so Greek :>