~~ when self-betas go bad
Mar. 6th, 2004 01:13 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI just found a reference to something the person claimed was one of writing's oldest rules: Finish your first draft.
I've never heard of this being a "rule" before. Are there more rules where that came from? Something like, "make sure you always make the character's motivations clear" or "go over the text and look for cliches" or "construct a time-table and see where everything fits" or "make sure you know what the other character's motivations are even if you never mention them" or something (see, those are things a beta wouldn't bother with, but I have to do anyway). Or are those too vague and general? I mean, those are things I just do -naturally-, without thinking about it, but maybe it'd be helpful to have it in list form?
So this is your chance to tell me what to do, or something like it. I'm currently in the self-editing stages of a fic, and even though I feel it's -done-, I'm vaguely dissatisfied with it, but the inspiration to write new things for it and really rethink it is gone. I was just wondering if there are some things you -do- ... like a writer's postfactum check-list toolkit sort of thing. Yes, a check-list; that sounds all organized and writerly (well, to my easily impressionable ears).
I realize this sounds like the job for a beta, but the fact is... I have some sort of mental road-block with being beta'd. First of all, it's such a Big Deal to even ask anyone, and then... I find that by the time they get back to me, my original rush of inspiration to edit had gone and I procrastinate to the point that I don't feel like doing -anything- with the fic anymore. I think with enough discipline and capacity for obsessive attention to detail, one can be one's own editor, especially if one has the capacity to look critically at one's work, which I think I do. Plus, the grammar end of things is pretty easy-- if I don't know it all, then I can find out.
Most people's "beta problems" are because they're so protective of their work or are afraid of harsh criticism, and I'm neither. Most people aren't harsh enough for me, but that's not the point; thing is, few people will pay as much attention to my work as I do. The writing and editing both are usually processes built on the same burst of inspiration; I work continuously, writing the first draft and then prodding and fixing and editing as the inspiration strikes. After that rush of movement, I generally lose all interest, so in the end I generally settle for a critique more than an edit. If this makes me sound lazy, that's probably because I am.
And then I thought... maybe what I need more than a beta is more -structure-... some sort of plan to follow, some sort of rules that I can use to self-edit 'cause clearly that's what comes naturally to me. All writers self-edited traditionally, didn't they? At least on the level most people beta: the basic self-consistency and grammar level, rather than a deeper mechanics of the story itself, in which case one rethinks basic plot-points and characterizations (which I admit one could always use outside help with).
So then... what is your check-list? Do you -have- a check-list? Am I on crack? (You don't have to answer that last one; it's pretty obvious anyway.)
I've never heard of this being a "rule" before. Are there more rules where that came from? Something like, "make sure you always make the character's motivations clear" or "go over the text and look for cliches" or "construct a time-table and see where everything fits" or "make sure you know what the other character's motivations are even if you never mention them" or something (see, those are things a beta wouldn't bother with, but I have to do anyway). Or are those too vague and general? I mean, those are things I just do -naturally-, without thinking about it, but maybe it'd be helpful to have it in list form?
So this is your chance to tell me what to do, or something like it. I'm currently in the self-editing stages of a fic, and even though I feel it's -done-, I'm vaguely dissatisfied with it, but the inspiration to write new things for it and really rethink it is gone. I was just wondering if there are some things you -do- ... like a writer's postfactum check-list toolkit sort of thing. Yes, a check-list; that sounds all organized and writerly (well, to my easily impressionable ears).
I realize this sounds like the job for a beta, but the fact is... I have some sort of mental road-block with being beta'd. First of all, it's such a Big Deal to even ask anyone, and then... I find that by the time they get back to me, my original rush of inspiration to edit had gone and I procrastinate to the point that I don't feel like doing -anything- with the fic anymore. I think with enough discipline and capacity for obsessive attention to detail, one can be one's own editor, especially if one has the capacity to look critically at one's work, which I think I do. Plus, the grammar end of things is pretty easy-- if I don't know it all, then I can find out.
Most people's "beta problems" are because they're so protective of their work or are afraid of harsh criticism, and I'm neither. Most people aren't harsh enough for me, but that's not the point; thing is, few people will pay as much attention to my work as I do. The writing and editing both are usually processes built on the same burst of inspiration; I work continuously, writing the first draft and then prodding and fixing and editing as the inspiration strikes. After that rush of movement, I generally lose all interest, so in the end I generally settle for a critique more than an edit. If this makes me sound lazy, that's probably because I am.
And then I thought... maybe what I need more than a beta is more -structure-... some sort of plan to follow, some sort of rules that I can use to self-edit 'cause clearly that's what comes naturally to me. All writers self-edited traditionally, didn't they? At least on the level most people beta: the basic self-consistency and grammar level, rather than a deeper mechanics of the story itself, in which case one rethinks basic plot-points and characterizations (which I admit one could always use outside help with).
So then... what is your check-list? Do you -have- a check-list? Am I on crack? (You don't have to answer that last one; it's pretty obvious anyway.)
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no subject
Date: 2004-03-06 06:43 am (UTC)I just cannot begin to go into all the different things I demand of my writing. I Just. Cannot. Begin. To Say.
All I will do is point out that I don't ever post anything, as a result.
So I always thought betas were to keep you from becoming like me. Betas were to keep you from editing and self-censoring yourself into oblivion, and tug the text out of your hand and say, "It's fine!!!"
But you know, very independently I came up with the idea of finish your first drafts, and this is because I usually don't have the stamina to write a first draft at one go. And it's always easier to edit than push forward. So what happens is that I end up with a piece that is polished, except missing one scene, but the problem is that the inspiration that first motivated the piece is gone. So I can't really go back and write the scene, because whenever I try to return to the story I end up rewriting it entirely. This is also why I have so much fic on my hard drive that I never finished and posted. I can see, now, that if I had forced myself to get the idea fully fleshed out on paper first (i.e. a fulll first draft), before I started cleaning it up and polishing it so obsessively, maybe I would have been able to finish it. It's just that, unfortunately, when I have an idea for a scene I want to get it all out (esp. dialogue), so I end up writing is all down as quickly as possible, with lots of placeholders for various things, and then later I get lazy and don't feel like filling bits in. If I slow down, then I lose inspiration.
In any event, I don't know why you really need a structure or a checklist if you are already asking yourself the right questions anyway. And, from what you've written above, I think you are. There are plenty of books available, but I am always loathe to recommend them to people 'cos I think they are overwhelming and tend to suffocate the muse.
As for being able to return to your work after the first rush of inspiration has hit ... well, this is just about discipline, isn't it? We seem to have similar problems, it's just that we get tripped up in different ways.
And about the larger question about whether a beta is necessary at all ... the necessity of a fresh eye ... I've heard people argue not only that the author is unequipped to judge her own fics, but only someone who doesn't share her kinks is capable of editing them. That makes no sense to me. I think that the only standards that matter are the author's own, and you need to find a beta who is shares your kinks and is interested in helping you be the best writer YOU can be, rather than try to force you into a different mold. I think being a beta requires you to check your ego at the door in a way very few people are willing to do. It's absolutely exhausting.
That's actually the practical reason why I don't have a beta ... (a) not a lot of folks share my kinks, and those that do, whose writing I like, are not necessarily willing to beta for me, and (b) I may have zero confidence in my own writing, but I do have 100% faith in my taste.
What I want, basically, is another Me. Who can tell Me if I am actually living up to My Own standards. Because sometimes it is hard to tell.
*head spins dizzily*
But I think you may be similar in that you do have pretty strong ideas about your ambitions for your work, and your goal is to live up to them, rather than to something else altogether. Am I right?
sorry for the early morning ramble ... *makes coffee*
no subject
Date: 2004-03-06 04:22 pm (UTC)What is the solution to that? What, what, what?? Er. I mean... the whole thing where I have some specific scenes missing but the inspiration is gone. DUDE. That is what's killing my WIP, y'know, my baby, my darling, the one I'm so ridiculously proud of (and also all the other pretty-damn-good-but-with-holes one-shots I have). It's always... I know pretty much what has to go where, and then I think my mind decides I'm done, and then... and then I never do anything with it again, except think about it all the time and pat myself on the back about how good it -could- have been. Which is Not Good, but.... I don't know how to stop ><
I slow down! Exactly it! Getting it all out on paper!! Me too!! That's what happened with my chaptered fic, man! WOE!! Gah! There must be a solution! Besides being doomed to a) never finishing or b) rewriting... 'cause... it is my best work. Well, I think so. I don't want it to molder and die. *sigh* I had this burst of manic energy for like, 3 weeks in August, and then... it ran out, y'know, and I wasn't quite done yet. I didn't get bogged down in editing, the plot was just growing at a rate faster than I could keep up with, so I kept having place-holders and running to put -this- scene in or -that- scene in, and then I burnt out. Wah.
I know exactly what you mean about another You. That's exactly what I was thinking about, what with the "attention" I was talking about. It's not that I'm so critical of myself, but just that everything that goes into what I write... who really knows all that? And don't you need to know that to really tell me what I'm missing? I mean, I -want- a beta, I just want a beta who -knows- my writing and -me- to an extent that seems impractical, y'know?
Yes, anyway, we do have very similar problems. I just... want -solutions-, 'cause the horrid spectre of No Inspiration just drives me up the wall, especially when I -care- about whether it gets done or not (often enough I just throw up my hands and move on to the next fic, 'cause there's -always- the Next Fic, for me).
Generally, I don't start a story with an ambition for it... usually I operate through some random burst of inspiration... but there's another level, definitely... like... where I'd like to go (in general), which makes me dissatisfied with some stories. I definitely haven't been able to merge my ambitions with my output very well, 'cause my output is so unconscious, yet I think about my writing so much. It's a source of a lot of frustration. I don't know how to follow my "ideals" or even my ideas. Generally, I listen to what each particular story tells me... and most times I have to be really patient, too, 'cause often enough it takes its own sweet time to tell me what's going on.
I dunno about -kinks-, though, exactly, 'cause I don't necessarily even -notice- my kinks in my writing (porny as a lot of it is). I mean... I write weird stuff, but it seems... I dunno, within the bounds of the normal, or something? Okay, no it's not. Heh. But... I want to be more normal, more comprehensible anyway. I do want someone who -understands- what I'm doing, trying to do, and -not- doing, and I think that's what you meant anyway. And dude, that sounds like the nirvana I'll never reach. -.-
But it's nice not to fell alone :D