~~ it's all about the porn, man.
Feb. 24th, 2004 01:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI write porn. That's what I do, right?
See, two guys were talking behind me on the bus about what they did-- they were art majors. One was a painter and the other was a sculptor (actually, I think he had a sculpture concentration in a Studio Art major while planning to be a programmer as a life goal, but hey). Kindred spirits, all that, right.
I guess if one actually asked me what -I- did, I'd say, "I write porn". Or at least, that'd be truer than most things. I mean, it's not even "artsy" porn-- it's most definitely intended to be hot. And it's fanfiction. If I called it "art", quite a number of people would just laugh, wouldn't they? But hey, I think so. I'm an artist, even if there's no actual proof.
Roughly speaking, it seems like there are 3 categories of fiction: a) popular fiction-- written for entertainment purposes (porn, horror stories, detective stories, a good number of adventure/violence stories, humor, etc); b) didactic fiction-- written to express a philosophical thesis or to make some point about life and/or the world (myths, some fairy-tales, family & growing-up stories, a lot of love-stories, some historical novels, fables, Ayn Rand, etc); c) interpretive fiction-- written to transmit a certain slant or expansion on "the hard facts" as the writer sees them (some people would put fanfiction here by default).
Inevitably, of course, all these get really confused and mixed together until you can't really separate them at all in practice. But... for some reason, I did feel chagrined when I saw this long essay all about how Gundam Wing (the show) is a victim of "fan rape". Basically, 'cause everyone's writing everyone as OOC and that just... hurts the "artistry" of the show somehow. Dude, that's just freakin' funny.
"Art" isn't a separate thing, an inviolate thing that's confined to the source material of some fanfic. It's a sacred thing, okay, but... everything is art. Fanfiction is art. Breathing can be an art if you do it with -intent-. I've taken whole classes based around the idea of asking "what is art", and there's never been an actual settled-on answer, but I think I can easily say that fanfiction is an art without regard to its adherence to its source or its degree of in-characterness. That's just silly.
Most people would say that "didactic fiction" is closest to "Art" out of my categories, and I think that's interesting in itself, because most people wouldn't claim to write it, and if they do, they'd likely be seen as stuck up. I say I "just write porn" too, even as I fall into that trap myself, wanting everything I write and read to -mean- something, to be "saying" something about... something. Thing is, you can't really escape that. You're always going to be saying "something", simply because meaning exists whether you yourself put it there or not. It can always be -found-. Question is, how well do you as the writer understand what you're inevitably unconsciously saying? How well do you understand the world? How well do you understand yourself? I think one's writing improves with every increase in the level of this understanding.
To me, the dividing line between porn (entertainment) and myth (Meaning) is very thin. I am entertained by meaning and a sense of some sort of mythic significance more than almost anything else, so one easily becomes the other. My need for a certain set-up, a certain background, extends into both characterization and mood as well as the simple mechanics of the scenario-- that is to say, I don't care who's slapping whose ass and who's calling who "Daddy" if you can't make me interested in the various psychological dynamics there. This isn't to say I need "plot" or "story" with my porn-- this is simply to say that I don't get visceral pleasure out of most sexually-based ideas, though I do have a small number of kinks (S&M or vanilla are the same to me, in other words-- doesn't matter). I get this pleasure from a lot of emotionally-based ideas (passion is what matters, and love if you can write it convincingly-- most people... not so much).
My point (to finally get to it), is that in the end, getting worked up on charges of OOC writing is useless. That would only matter if the writer was going for an "interpretive fiction" story, and most people aren't, fanfiction writers or not. Leaving aside the question of whether there -is- such a thing as a solid "canon" in any case ('cause it's -always- going to be 85% individual interpretation). You're still left with the fact that most people read and write fanfic for "entertainment only"-- in other words, it's a form of pornography, or "popular fiction". It's fiction with a -goal- in mind, there to hit specific buttons, even if your button is "this sort of Draco". The fic is there to cater to you.
Personally, I judge stories based on whether they make good -fiction-, not good fanfiction. I don't -care- if it makes good fanfiction, 'cause really, what kind of achievement is that, anyway? Like coloring by numbers, except people knock themselves out harder trying to accomplish it. You could write the most in-character HP fanfic of all time and in a way, it'd be a waste of effort, really, wouldn't it? I mean, what would be the point, exactly?
It seems to me that writing in itself is always an art if that's how you approach it, no matter if you write porn or The Great American Novel. The characters' humanity has to come before their "accuracy", whatever -that- means. It's writing-- a creative process-- not engineering, right? You can't really separate such a complex endeavor as writing into categories, I think. It's always going to be more than would fit into any box; good writing will have overflow, will resist categorization, won't be entirely recognizable as really -like- anything else that came before it. That's what makes it good. That element of surprise, of revelation, of sudden connection. "Good fanfiction" wants to add an element of recognition to the mix-- wants to have it both ways. And people generally have to decide for themselves which of these goals is more important to have achieved.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... I like my porn to work on many other levels as well, and I'm rather demanding about that. But as far as whether it's in-character... if I really wanted "in character", in the end I'd recommend going to the source. Which is why I get frustrated with people who seem to confuse the interpretative fiction end of things & the actual source. The -source- doesn't have slash. Slash and all other subtext is inherently connected to the source, yes, but it's not really -merged- with it. So any fanfiction playing up subtext is going to disfigure the source in some way.
Fanfic is all about messing with the source, it seems to me, 'cause if you read it to be "true" to it somehow, you'll just be disappointed a lot. Unless -you're- the person writing it, in which case you'll be sure to please yourself (if you write well enough). And of course, now we're back to the porn, as always.
See, two guys were talking behind me on the bus about what they did-- they were art majors. One was a painter and the other was a sculptor (actually, I think he had a sculpture concentration in a Studio Art major while planning to be a programmer as a life goal, but hey). Kindred spirits, all that, right.
I guess if one actually asked me what -I- did, I'd say, "I write porn". Or at least, that'd be truer than most things. I mean, it's not even "artsy" porn-- it's most definitely intended to be hot. And it's fanfiction. If I called it "art", quite a number of people would just laugh, wouldn't they? But hey, I think so. I'm an artist, even if there's no actual proof.
Roughly speaking, it seems like there are 3 categories of fiction: a) popular fiction-- written for entertainment purposes (porn, horror stories, detective stories, a good number of adventure/violence stories, humor, etc); b) didactic fiction-- written to express a philosophical thesis or to make some point about life and/or the world (myths, some fairy-tales, family & growing-up stories, a lot of love-stories, some historical novels, fables, Ayn Rand, etc); c) interpretive fiction-- written to transmit a certain slant or expansion on "the hard facts" as the writer sees them (some people would put fanfiction here by default).
Inevitably, of course, all these get really confused and mixed together until you can't really separate them at all in practice. But... for some reason, I did feel chagrined when I saw this long essay all about how Gundam Wing (the show) is a victim of "fan rape". Basically, 'cause everyone's writing everyone as OOC and that just... hurts the "artistry" of the show somehow. Dude, that's just freakin' funny.
"Art" isn't a separate thing, an inviolate thing that's confined to the source material of some fanfic. It's a sacred thing, okay, but... everything is art. Fanfiction is art. Breathing can be an art if you do it with -intent-. I've taken whole classes based around the idea of asking "what is art", and there's never been an actual settled-on answer, but I think I can easily say that fanfiction is an art without regard to its adherence to its source or its degree of in-characterness. That's just silly.
Most people would say that "didactic fiction" is closest to "Art" out of my categories, and I think that's interesting in itself, because most people wouldn't claim to write it, and if they do, they'd likely be seen as stuck up. I say I "just write porn" too, even as I fall into that trap myself, wanting everything I write and read to -mean- something, to be "saying" something about... something. Thing is, you can't really escape that. You're always going to be saying "something", simply because meaning exists whether you yourself put it there or not. It can always be -found-. Question is, how well do you as the writer understand what you're inevitably unconsciously saying? How well do you understand the world? How well do you understand yourself? I think one's writing improves with every increase in the level of this understanding.
To me, the dividing line between porn (entertainment) and myth (Meaning) is very thin. I am entertained by meaning and a sense of some sort of mythic significance more than almost anything else, so one easily becomes the other. My need for a certain set-up, a certain background, extends into both characterization and mood as well as the simple mechanics of the scenario-- that is to say, I don't care who's slapping whose ass and who's calling who "Daddy" if you can't make me interested in the various psychological dynamics there. This isn't to say I need "plot" or "story" with my porn-- this is simply to say that I don't get visceral pleasure out of most sexually-based ideas, though I do have a small number of kinks (S&M or vanilla are the same to me, in other words-- doesn't matter). I get this pleasure from a lot of emotionally-based ideas (passion is what matters, and love if you can write it convincingly-- most people... not so much).
My point (to finally get to it), is that in the end, getting worked up on charges of OOC writing is useless. That would only matter if the writer was going for an "interpretive fiction" story, and most people aren't, fanfiction writers or not. Leaving aside the question of whether there -is- such a thing as a solid "canon" in any case ('cause it's -always- going to be 85% individual interpretation). You're still left with the fact that most people read and write fanfic for "entertainment only"-- in other words, it's a form of pornography, or "popular fiction". It's fiction with a -goal- in mind, there to hit specific buttons, even if your button is "this sort of Draco". The fic is there to cater to you.
Personally, I judge stories based on whether they make good -fiction-, not good fanfiction. I don't -care- if it makes good fanfiction, 'cause really, what kind of achievement is that, anyway? Like coloring by numbers, except people knock themselves out harder trying to accomplish it. You could write the most in-character HP fanfic of all time and in a way, it'd be a waste of effort, really, wouldn't it? I mean, what would be the point, exactly?
It seems to me that writing in itself is always an art if that's how you approach it, no matter if you write porn or The Great American Novel. The characters' humanity has to come before their "accuracy", whatever -that- means. It's writing-- a creative process-- not engineering, right? You can't really separate such a complex endeavor as writing into categories, I think. It's always going to be more than would fit into any box; good writing will have overflow, will resist categorization, won't be entirely recognizable as really -like- anything else that came before it. That's what makes it good. That element of surprise, of revelation, of sudden connection. "Good fanfiction" wants to add an element of recognition to the mix-- wants to have it both ways. And people generally have to decide for themselves which of these goals is more important to have achieved.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... I like my porn to work on many other levels as well, and I'm rather demanding about that. But as far as whether it's in-character... if I really wanted "in character", in the end I'd recommend going to the source. Which is why I get frustrated with people who seem to confuse the interpretative fiction end of things & the actual source. The -source- doesn't have slash. Slash and all other subtext is inherently connected to the source, yes, but it's not really -merged- with it. So any fanfiction playing up subtext is going to disfigure the source in some way.
Fanfic is all about messing with the source, it seems to me, 'cause if you read it to be "true" to it somehow, you'll just be disappointed a lot. Unless -you're- the person writing it, in which case you'll be sure to please yourself (if you write well enough). And of course, now we're back to the porn, as always.
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no subject
Date: 2004-02-23 11:04 pm (UTC)sweetie, you are so defensive about this IC/OOC stuff. personally, i think a lot of the stuff you write is fabulously IC, but you have to realize that for a lot of people, love of the source material comes first, and writing/porn/whatever comes second. (For me ... actually I am not sure which comes first. I cherish them both, that's all I can say.)
As for "humanity vs. accuracy" ... I get kind of frustrated when people take this "I must save the characters from JKR" attitude. I was taking a break today and surfing random LJs, and there was some comment by a person I like to call The Amiable Fascist in which she said that it was ok that JKR came up with Occlumency, because this author had used something similar in her own fanfic, first.
This did not endear me to this person, I have to say.
It is totally cool if for you the success of something as a story comes before its success as fanfic. But you just have to realize that fanfiction is a specific formal exercise, and even if you don't personally dig those rules (such as knowing canon and being IC), they're there for a reason, and they mean something for a lot of people. They define the genre, and they are precisely what attract many people to it.
Personally, I don't think that good fanfic and good fiction are very related. I have made this argument before, so I won't bore you with all the details here here, but I just think that they are different kinds of creative endeavors, that exercise different muscles in the writer.
I am not at all convinced that one is good training for the other. I have not read much original fiction by folks in fandom that impressed me one iota, I'm afraid. Overall, I've been amazed at how faceless and bland and cliched the characters are, and how clumsily their personalities are delineated.
And there is a very specific reason for that: coming up with fascinating, complicated characters is at the heart of original fiction, and yet this is precisely what fanfic doesn't demand of its writers.
99.9% of fanfic is not good fiction, per se. Try reading fanfic in a fandom you know nothing about. Even highly-praised fanfic. Almost all of it will seem faceless and dull, no matter how good the writing. Simply because fanfiction is a genre that is very different from original fiction. It is written in conversation with the source text and with the audience in a way that original fiction is not. Just an example.
no subject
Date: 2004-02-23 11:39 pm (UTC)The thing that really clicked for me is calling fanfic an "exercise", which I didn't consider at all. It reminded me of writing exercises in my poetry class, like, you know, learning to write sonnets & sextinas & haikus & so on. That makes total sense, and I keep forgetting that because I'm -such- an unconscious writer (even though I don't -want- to be), and anything I do right, I do instinctively and not "on purpose" as an exercise, you now what I mean? If I write in character, it's almost an accident-- I don't -try- to. Harry & co. are just... in my head. And they happen to be there in a fascion that corresponds to "reality", hehehe, I guess.
I get carried away 'cause writing itself is -soooo- important to me and I was reading that essay on how GW fandom is "raped" and it was just too much. I thought, well, there are a number of people who think the HP books are being "raped" by all the OOC fanfic, too, which... bothers me. But! Clearly I think the opposite position of "my fanfic is godly & JKR is nothing" is rather ridiculous also. I think each fan's creativity is just as important as the exercise of fanfic, just-- different. They're different, often compatible, goals, it seems like.
People who diss the books and say they're better are just insane, man, ahahahah. No, totally. I wonder about their mental stability :D 'Cause dude. JKR wrote it. They're using it. *coughs* ...Yeah.
I know what you mean about them being different and one not really having to prepare you for the other. For a long time, I -sucked- as a fanfic writer. I don't naturally -write- fanfic-- it's very difficult for me, really. I think I'm an original fic writer by nature, so my own difficulties in writing fanfic at all (before I got all lost in the characters) illustrates your point about them being different endeavors.
I don't know about the characterizations defining original writing, though, 'cause there are always archetypes to draw on, always cliches, always plot-or-porn-or-adventure driven stories. I myself have gotteninto all fanfic except for Buffy without seeing the source first. It's pretty easy to figure out if you know -anything-... or maybe I"m just a freak. But I do read Highlander & Gundam Wing & Smallville without much deep familiarity. Though I imagine there are the basic facts there at my disposal, and I do not, in fact, read in shows/books where I know -nothing-. It's still not black & white, y'know, for me anyway.
A lot of people seem to think my getting into fandoms I know v. little about is weird... and it probably is. I actually get more pissed off at fanfic if I -do- know the source very well, 'cause it's just -frustrating-, seeing how the canon I love keeps getting mangled. It seems like very few people write good -fanfiction-, though a number of them -do- write good (if OOC) fiction.
HP is a special case, of course, 'cause I did fall in love with canon-- later. AndI do love the idea of a "conversation" with canon, 'cause after OoTP especially, that's what I began to do. Before, not so much. Still... especially in slash... the conversation aspect of things seems to be muchly overwhelmed by the kink-for-the-sake-of-kink aspect of things. But maybe that's just another way of saying 99% of anything is crap :>
no subject
Date: 2004-02-25 10:08 am (UTC)And you made a really good point about the fact that you did indeed fall in love with most of your fandoms before learning the canon. So I guess we really do have completing different relationships to fanfic!!!
I am not so into the archetypes, personally. I like really character-driven stories, rather than adventure-driven ones. I'm not a big fan of genre fiction ... I've never read most of the writers that everyone else in fandom goes gaga for.
And YES about exercise ... I was thinking about sonnets as well. I think that the best art comes out of the engagement with some kind of formal restriction, but that's just me. I think too much freedom can be overwhelming and doesn't necessarily produce the greatest work! ... but I am shorthanding a much longer argument here, so probably this makes no sense!
Anyway, sorry for such a brief and disconnected comment ... *rushes about*
<33333
no subject
Date: 2004-02-24 07:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-25 10:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-25 11:18 am (UTC)But I do write original fiction too; that's more of what I think of when I think of writing, myself. Even having written in other universes for series, the idea of writing fanfic totally intimidates me! But, uh, anyway, your post above really made me think about the differences, because lately writing I've found myself thinking how difficult it is to hammer out your own world and your own characters (which is why I saved it under "more things S_C says casually about writing that rock my world..."), and how I think some people might not even realize how much work is being done for us in fanfic even with characters that are not described at all in canon. Like you think you know nothing about Blaise Zabini, but in fact you know a lot.
Ooh, must have discussion on this. Lemme try to put together something coherent in my lj.:-D