~~ RoTK babble.
Dec. 27th, 2003 02:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaSo. I saw RoTK last night. Finally! And with ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sistermagpie, at that. Yeah, nyah.
...Do I have thoughts?
No, I don't have thoughts. That said, I may as well say something while I'm still unaware of what most people are saying. Maybe.
I loved this movie just as I loved the other two, though I loved this one more because it just brought everything together and all the overall themes were present. It's a sprawling gorgeous queen of a movie, the grandest most truly royal film I can remember easily. Quite often I was just on the verge of tears merely from the scenery and the music. Ah, the music.
This was such a visual movie. And I was sitting in the second row, so I was all up-close and personal. Too much so, but eh. While everyone probably remembers the slash & the plot & the pretty, I remember that scene where they lit the fires across the mountains, man. That was just so cool I have no words. And the design of the city of Gondor. When I saw it, I got shivery and weepy, like it's the lost city of my heart-- and really, I'm more of a Shire kind of girl. It was just completely breathtaking. The designs in general-- creatures and landscapes-- are completely unmatched by anything for sheer scale and grandeur and sweeping beauty and ability to match the mood. The mountains of New Zealand own my soul, man.
It's hard for me to say anything coherent about it 'cause the story inspires such a deep-seated emotional response in me-- almost a sense of loyalty-- an inspiration. I think it captures that semi-lost sense of fresh wonder that one has watching one's first fantasy movies, or reading legends and fairy-tales. Everything is both intensely physical and larger than life, so that one is swept along completely, losing oneself in the story and the world. The only other movies that have done this to me are `The Neverending Story' and the Star Trek movies. This taps into some primordial source of awe within me, both visually and spiritually, because especially in this movie, the story is one of redemption and hope, and I'm obviously a complete sucker for that traditional fairy-tale motif.
In terms of personalities-- I felt this one was more of an ensemble movie than the other two, but Merry and Pippin came alive for the first time, for me, and I fell in love with them. All of the actors have a wonderful chemistry together, of course, but there was much more attention paid to Merry and Pippin this time, I think. There were fewer moments of comic relief and actual relationship growth or characterization, 'cause it was all-action-all-the-time for most of it, but I think Merry & Pippin remained somewhat outside it all even as they were in the thick of things. It really seemed that they were the hero-protagonists this time even though officially it's still Frodo's story.
I had weird angst, going up and down in terms all the battle scenes. On the one hand, I hate battle scenes, especially melee fighting-- I can't really follow it and visually it overloads me, as well as stressing me out. There were a -lot- of battle scenes in this movie, and mind you that was my least favorite part of `Fellowship' & TTT. This time, though, I had flashes of actually being drawn into it and feeling the glory of battle more than once. I was so inspired and onboard with the cause that I actually liked the unity and valor and mad courage and so on-- maybe that's why I identified with Merry and Pippin. Because I hate fighting, detest war, abhor violence-- but it was hard to withstand the sheer drive of the moment.
I wouldn't say that the movies glorified battle or war by any means, in principle, but in terms of the swell of music and the sounding of horns and the battle cries-- certainly there was something there of glory, especially when the tide had turned in the Fellowship's favor. I found I liked the battle more when they weren't losing. Funny, that. I actually like the uncomfortable feeling of being pulled along into that mindset-- it kind of makes me face my own issues 'cause I do idolize bravery and idealism and righteous anger enough so that it could be used to stir up battle fervor, even though fighting makes me ill.
As before, I still like Arwen (in her one major scene), probably because I'm a sucker for star-crossed love even when it's as melodramatic as all that. My favorite relationship here (take a wild guess) was Merry&Pippin, of course, 'cause they still retained a measure of their innocence and I need that. I didn't feel as close to Frodo and Sam because Frodo was just breaking apart and becoming something less than himself for most of it-- Frodo kind of passed beyond simple humanity and became a pure vessel, so he was hard for me to fully identify with in this movie, though I felt sorry for him. I don't like feeling sorry for characters, though.
Naturally, I loved the Frodo&Sam moments at the end (of all things)-- who wouldn't? There was so much pure emotion that I'd have to be made of steel not to love it. The visual cues made it impossible for me to resist, along with everything else-- I mean... a river of fire, the huge echoing sky, the eagles carrying them away. It's the stuff legends are made of, quite literally.
Even though there was all this grand visual symbolism, I never actually felt like it went over the top. The story could support it, as well as the emotional output of the actors. *sigh* Even the goopiest moments were saved for me 'cause I could sense the genuineness of them, like when Frodo wakes up and all his friends are there, and Sam is smiling at him. Oh man. OH MAN.
Sort of like Viggo still completely sells me as King (mmm, mountain scene! swords! commanding stare!!) and Ian sells me as Gandalf and oooooh Gollum. Yes. They kind of all merged with their parts, they really did. It made me happy to see. The only person I felt was over the top (as usual) was the dwarf, but oh well. Maybe dwarves are just. Like that.
I really liked Faramir. I didn't notice Faramir before, not really, and I didn't have any love for Boromir-- or most of the supporting characters like the dead elf or whatever-- but Faramir is adorable. It's his puppy dog look, man. Yes.
~~
Anyway.
+ Favorite moments....
- Merry and Pippin separate (& anytime either Merry or Pippin is in a scene).
- First sight of Gondor.
- Lighting of the fires.
- "I am no man!" <33333333
- Arwen sees the future.
- Aragorn commands the ghost army (my king! *swoon*.)
- Legolas brings down the elephant-type-creature (he still got it).
- "...but I can carry you."
- "...here at the end of all things." (WAH.)
- Frodo wakes up. (!!! THE SMILE!!)
- Aragorn clasps Legolas' shoulder. (theirloveissopure)
+ Things I (pettily) wish for....
- More Legolas (kicking ass, 'cause that's what he does best).
- More Aragorn/Legolas (theirloveissorestrainedmanlyclasp!).
- More quiet moments of character-interaction.
- More Merry/Pippin-ness (there is never enough!)
~~
Do I see slash? Yes.
Do I need slash? No.
That's basically it, for me. I realize friendship is beautiful without sex, but that doesn't mean I think any friendship is "too pure". Sometimes I just don't see it as being likely or think it would change the dynamic in a weird way, and then it's weird. But Merry & Pippin and Aragorn/Legolas seems ripe for some bit of spice. It'd make it more... I dunno... angsty. Which I like. Perfect harmony grates on one, no? :>
As far as Frodo/Sam.... Eh. More conflicted.
I think I can see how Sam would never admit it to himself 'cause it'd be disrespectful in some way and Frodo just never noticed he had a body since he got the ring. So it's that sense of "it'd never happen" that really prevents me. That said, I think it's got the possibility of want on Sam's side 'cause there is a power imbalance in that relationship, and there's a slight sexualization of anyone you obsess over that much that happens in my mind. Frodo is resolved in his relationship with Sam, but not vice-versa. Sam is ripe for angst, which makes the unrequited thing possible. But no, not requited, weirdly enough.
That said, I can't pair Frodo with anyone else, either, since the reason I can't see him with Sam even in theory is because he's not really as human as he could be once he gets the ring. He reminds me of a priest, maybe, and Sam of a priest's caretaker, if priests had such things.
I can see Merry/Pippin 'cause they're equals and their relationship grew, I think, as -they- grew within the course of the story, so it's not static and has kinetic potential. Aragorn and Legolas-- well-- they're just adorable together, though clearly I don't actually think it'd happen. It's pretty though, who could argue that? But Aragorn is painfully in love with Arwen, which annuls things (and Legolas isn't exactly a sex-crazed teenager anyway). I can definitely see the potential though, sans Arwen. But it doesn't really matter to me.
So yeah.
This pretty much exhausts the subject for me. I loved the movies, and I loved this last part of the trilogy. I can't actually see myself in the fandom in any way, shape or form, because I -have- liked them so much-- so much that they're now -mine-. The story as it stands is enough for me, and I don't feel the need to rehash it and write fanfic and see where things go-- to me, they already went where they needed to go, which is kind of how I feel about QAF also.
All things considered, I -would- like the soundtrack, however~:) Mmmm, Annie Lennox my love.
sistermagpie, at that. Yeah, nyah....Do I have thoughts?
No, I don't have thoughts. That said, I may as well say something while I'm still unaware of what most people are saying. Maybe.
I loved this movie just as I loved the other two, though I loved this one more because it just brought everything together and all the overall themes were present. It's a sprawling gorgeous queen of a movie, the grandest most truly royal film I can remember easily. Quite often I was just on the verge of tears merely from the scenery and the music. Ah, the music.
This was such a visual movie. And I was sitting in the second row, so I was all up-close and personal. Too much so, but eh. While everyone probably remembers the slash & the plot & the pretty, I remember that scene where they lit the fires across the mountains, man. That was just so cool I have no words. And the design of the city of Gondor. When I saw it, I got shivery and weepy, like it's the lost city of my heart-- and really, I'm more of a Shire kind of girl. It was just completely breathtaking. The designs in general-- creatures and landscapes-- are completely unmatched by anything for sheer scale and grandeur and sweeping beauty and ability to match the mood. The mountains of New Zealand own my soul, man.
It's hard for me to say anything coherent about it 'cause the story inspires such a deep-seated emotional response in me-- almost a sense of loyalty-- an inspiration. I think it captures that semi-lost sense of fresh wonder that one has watching one's first fantasy movies, or reading legends and fairy-tales. Everything is both intensely physical and larger than life, so that one is swept along completely, losing oneself in the story and the world. The only other movies that have done this to me are `The Neverending Story' and the Star Trek movies. This taps into some primordial source of awe within me, both visually and spiritually, because especially in this movie, the story is one of redemption and hope, and I'm obviously a complete sucker for that traditional fairy-tale motif.
In terms of personalities-- I felt this one was more of an ensemble movie than the other two, but Merry and Pippin came alive for the first time, for me, and I fell in love with them. All of the actors have a wonderful chemistry together, of course, but there was much more attention paid to Merry and Pippin this time, I think. There were fewer moments of comic relief and actual relationship growth or characterization, 'cause it was all-action-all-the-time for most of it, but I think Merry & Pippin remained somewhat outside it all even as they were in the thick of things. It really seemed that they were the hero-protagonists this time even though officially it's still Frodo's story.
I had weird angst, going up and down in terms all the battle scenes. On the one hand, I hate battle scenes, especially melee fighting-- I can't really follow it and visually it overloads me, as well as stressing me out. There were a -lot- of battle scenes in this movie, and mind you that was my least favorite part of `Fellowship' & TTT. This time, though, I had flashes of actually being drawn into it and feeling the glory of battle more than once. I was so inspired and onboard with the cause that I actually liked the unity and valor and mad courage and so on-- maybe that's why I identified with Merry and Pippin. Because I hate fighting, detest war, abhor violence-- but it was hard to withstand the sheer drive of the moment.
I wouldn't say that the movies glorified battle or war by any means, in principle, but in terms of the swell of music and the sounding of horns and the battle cries-- certainly there was something there of glory, especially when the tide had turned in the Fellowship's favor. I found I liked the battle more when they weren't losing. Funny, that. I actually like the uncomfortable feeling of being pulled along into that mindset-- it kind of makes me face my own issues 'cause I do idolize bravery and idealism and righteous anger enough so that it could be used to stir up battle fervor, even though fighting makes me ill.
As before, I still like Arwen (in her one major scene), probably because I'm a sucker for star-crossed love even when it's as melodramatic as all that. My favorite relationship here (take a wild guess) was Merry&Pippin, of course, 'cause they still retained a measure of their innocence and I need that. I didn't feel as close to Frodo and Sam because Frodo was just breaking apart and becoming something less than himself for most of it-- Frodo kind of passed beyond simple humanity and became a pure vessel, so he was hard for me to fully identify with in this movie, though I felt sorry for him. I don't like feeling sorry for characters, though.
Naturally, I loved the Frodo&Sam moments at the end (of all things)-- who wouldn't? There was so much pure emotion that I'd have to be made of steel not to love it. The visual cues made it impossible for me to resist, along with everything else-- I mean... a river of fire, the huge echoing sky, the eagles carrying them away. It's the stuff legends are made of, quite literally.
Even though there was all this grand visual symbolism, I never actually felt like it went over the top. The story could support it, as well as the emotional output of the actors. *sigh* Even the goopiest moments were saved for me 'cause I could sense the genuineness of them, like when Frodo wakes up and all his friends are there, and Sam is smiling at him. Oh man. OH MAN.
Sort of like Viggo still completely sells me as King (mmm, mountain scene! swords! commanding stare!!) and Ian sells me as Gandalf and oooooh Gollum. Yes. They kind of all merged with their parts, they really did. It made me happy to see. The only person I felt was over the top (as usual) was the dwarf, but oh well. Maybe dwarves are just. Like that.
I really liked Faramir. I didn't notice Faramir before, not really, and I didn't have any love for Boromir-- or most of the supporting characters like the dead elf or whatever-- but Faramir is adorable. It's his puppy dog look, man. Yes.
~~
Anyway.
+ Favorite moments....
- Merry and Pippin separate (& anytime either Merry or Pippin is in a scene).
- First sight of Gondor.
- Lighting of the fires.
- "I am no man!" <33333333
- Arwen sees the future.
- Aragorn commands the ghost army (my king! *swoon*.)
- Legolas brings down the elephant-type-creature (he still got it).
- "...but I can carry you."
- "...here at the end of all things." (WAH.)
- Frodo wakes up. (!!! THE SMILE!!)
- Aragorn clasps Legolas' shoulder. (theirloveissopure)
+ Things I (pettily) wish for....
- More Legolas (kicking ass, 'cause that's what he does best).
- More Aragorn/Legolas (theirloveissorestrainedmanlyclasp!).
- More quiet moments of character-interaction.
- More Merry/Pippin-ness (there is never enough!)
~~
Do I see slash? Yes.
Do I need slash? No.
That's basically it, for me. I realize friendship is beautiful without sex, but that doesn't mean I think any friendship is "too pure". Sometimes I just don't see it as being likely or think it would change the dynamic in a weird way, and then it's weird. But Merry & Pippin and Aragorn/Legolas seems ripe for some bit of spice. It'd make it more... I dunno... angsty. Which I like. Perfect harmony grates on one, no? :>
As far as Frodo/Sam.... Eh. More conflicted.
I think I can see how Sam would never admit it to himself 'cause it'd be disrespectful in some way and Frodo just never noticed he had a body since he got the ring. So it's that sense of "it'd never happen" that really prevents me. That said, I think it's got the possibility of want on Sam's side 'cause there is a power imbalance in that relationship, and there's a slight sexualization of anyone you obsess over that much that happens in my mind. Frodo is resolved in his relationship with Sam, but not vice-versa. Sam is ripe for angst, which makes the unrequited thing possible. But no, not requited, weirdly enough.
That said, I can't pair Frodo with anyone else, either, since the reason I can't see him with Sam even in theory is because he's not really as human as he could be once he gets the ring. He reminds me of a priest, maybe, and Sam of a priest's caretaker, if priests had such things.
I can see Merry/Pippin 'cause they're equals and their relationship grew, I think, as -they- grew within the course of the story, so it's not static and has kinetic potential. Aragorn and Legolas-- well-- they're just adorable together, though clearly I don't actually think it'd happen. It's pretty though, who could argue that? But Aragorn is painfully in love with Arwen, which annuls things (and Legolas isn't exactly a sex-crazed teenager anyway). I can definitely see the potential though, sans Arwen. But it doesn't really matter to me.
So yeah.
This pretty much exhausts the subject for me. I loved the movies, and I loved this last part of the trilogy. I can't actually see myself in the fandom in any way, shape or form, because I -have- liked them so much-- so much that they're now -mine-. The story as it stands is enough for me, and I don't feel the need to rehash it and write fanfic and see where things go-- to me, they already went where they needed to go, which is kind of how I feel about QAF also.
All things considered, I -would- like the soundtrack, however~:) Mmmm, Annie Lennox my love.
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no subject
Date: 2003-12-27 03:00 pm (UTC)You wouldn't believe how many people have yet to realize this. *cries*
Don't think for a second you're alone in your love for the landscape and music and sensory overloads. The lighting of the beacons is such a sweeping, majestic scene that I always start crying (though I admit that's not saying much as I bawled - bawled! - my way through this entire movie the first time I saw it) and I wish we still had traditions and signals like that these days. These movies always stir strange feelings in me of cross-country sprints and a kind of bitterness towards instantaneous communication (ignore the girl typing on the COMPUTER here) because it just seems so honorable to slog your way across the world just to inform your captain that the fires of your allies have been lit.
Before my train of thought derails, yes, the music adds so much more. I've never felt more at home with music than I have with these scores; I can listen to them at any point in my life: working on the computer, driving around in the car, edging into sleep. The music just seeps into my bones and to hear it as it supports the films is just awe-inspiring.
Merry and Pippin are just so precious to me. It's so heartbroken to watch them leave the Shire as almost children and return wizened men, even if they do retain a portion of their former jollity. They're just so brave and courageous and wah. I have to stop here or I'll never end.
These movies inspire new feelings in me regarding war. Tolkien and Jackson are so sure to make us realize that war is terrible and costly and ruinous and poisonous, but at the same time, they're showing that there are small instances of humanity on battlefields not found anywhere else: the laying down of one's life for the stranger next to you, the willingness to charge into certain death out of sheer love for your captain, the unswerving sense of loyalty that compells you to risk all you have for what you know is right. I think it's in keeping with the story's overall theme of hope, that even in something as cataclysmic as Pelennor fields, there is an almost holy unity of Men.
Éowyn! <3 "I am no man!" sends shivers down my spine. However, my favorite line in the movie isn't even from the books: "I will kill you if you touch him!" My god, how the goosebumps arrive during that line. These scene plays out so much better on the screen than in the books; I can see her tremble even while she's slaying the Witchking, I can see just how soft her skin is even as she weilds her sword. For all the pages in that book, Tolkien can't express something like the look in Éowyn's eyes as she crawls to Theoden's side.
Aragorn charging onto the dock with the Army of the Dead is the coolest thing I have ever seen on film.
You know, I usually don't like to see slash in LOTR, but even I couldn't help but snicker during that final shoulderclasp, right before Arwen is revealed. I mean, honestly. Theirloveissoprettyandroyal. Also, holy mother of God, but Orlando Bloom cleans up nicely. I just. Awuh. Beel. Fipp. Fttttttp.
Eh, I've already talked about F/S in my own LJ and I'm so exhausted on that subject.
So yes, I agree with a lot of what you've said. These movies are just so epic and sweeping and in some ways they are inferior to the books, but they are also superior to the books in many ways. Above all, both mediums managed to capture this story in a masterpiece. Well done, sirs.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-27 06:14 pm (UTC)It's weird for me to get all "ooh, sexay" about any of them 'cause in a way I'd be going against the grain of the movie, I guess. Only Legolas and Aragorn seem to project some sort of come-hither thing and they're way too heroic-dashing-hero for me to get into-- I mean, there's Eowyn & Arwen, but. Arwen is nonsexually pretty, sort of like she's about to start singing sad songs any moment. And Eowyn... is prolly just not my type, though I definitely like her a lot. :>
You know, I usually say I don't like epic stories-- that I don't -need- epic stories, anyway. But maybe it's just hard to really get at that sort of larger-than-life feeling without making it seem forced. It's probably the chemistry between the actors that made it seem real, though, 'cause they're just so -there-.
Also, when I saw the beads on that boy, I just sort of goggled, hehehe. He's so prettier than Arwen, it's cute~:))
no subject
Date: 2003-12-27 06:36 pm (UTC)"I was reading all about the ancient Sumerians last night.."
"Oh, they're lovely people, really. Nice pottery."
I never really found Arwen. Unlike the rest of the fandom, I really don't have anything against her, but she's just so ethereal it doesn't work. And I don't lust after Eowyn so much as admire her. Though I could lust. Oh yesss, preciouss.
I know! It's hard to make him look ugly.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-27 06:45 pm (UTC)Not that I don't dig that, I do. My brain starts to hurt after a while, though. Or maybe it's just that I can't multi-task and eventually I get tired & want to read more H/D porn. *ponders*
no subject
Date: 2003-12-27 07:18 pm (UTC)My mind is a sieve.