~~ mrar. not again.

[reenka]

Oh man, I'm a champion at wasting time. I don't know -why- the bloody hell I'm so obsessed with making lists. I should just avoid all lists everywhere, just so they don't give me ideas. I -did- have a semi-fresh mind before writing this entry, but now it's completely and utterly -gone-. Ahem.

So. I had randomly stumbled across a list of poetic_licence's favorite Harry's and Draco's in HP fic, and it had explanations as to why, etc. You can see where this is going, can't you. Yes. The horror. The horror, indeed. Because I don't have "just a few". Oh, just 2 or 3. Nooooo, of course not. *cries!!*

See... I keep thinking about what is it exactly that stays constant for me, in terms of what I'm always looking for in every incarnation of a character. Problem is, of course, I already know the answer to that. And I've thought about it a zillion times before. So there was really -no- bloody reason to do it again. Except I looked at Amy's list and was like... "um... no".

Mind you, I love Ishuca's writing and -adore- Amalin's writing and hey, I enjoyed `Resolution' too, but it's funny, because even as much as I obviously have a high tolerance for fanon, I've never actually liked their writing because of the -characterization-. There's a clear demarkation in my mind between liking something for style & plot & theme and liking it for the characterization. Usually, I can't really say I love a characterization if I think it's unrealistic, whereas I'm not big on realism in general, actually. No matter what happens to them, I like the gritty side of things when it comes to characterizing people. I like 'em dirty and sweaty and pathetic and lost. And painfully human.

So. That's where I'm coming from, really. That's the problem with fanon!Draco for me-- I can't dig a Draco that has no chinks & ugliness to him-- or a Harry, for that matter. I've always latched onto the vulnerabilities in characters-- and people in general, I guess. Give me their anger, their need, their frustration, their hope, their insecurity. Give me their bitter hearts.
~~


- HARRY.

+ Origins, Haven, Belong [& Ivy's Harry in general]

    No one else writes about Harry's gentleness and ordinariness and sensitivity and need like this. The way he's just Harry, and that's heroic sometimes and befuddled most times and vulnerable underneath it all, so vulnerable and real and easy to love. He's might be innocent, but he's not weak and he always makes Draco have to reach higher in order to have him. He doesn't ever just settle or betray himself, and he's always doing what he thinks is the right thing. This will always be my favorite pre-OoTP!Harry.

+ Sins of the Father, by Ali.

    The thing I love about this characterization is how unassuming and free of melodrama it is. It really does feel like reading gen, and that tends to be my favorite sort of characterization. This is a recognizable GoF Harry-- sensible and unpredictable at the same time, somehow. There's a common sense quality to him, and yet there's still that neediness and loneliness. Mmm, yes.

+ To Rule in Hell, by Antenora.

    Woo. My favorite wartime!Harry, eheheh. He's such a goddamn badass. Mmmmm. He's toughened up and become jaded and bitter and all that, but he's still recognizably Harry-- just with a punch. A lot of punches. And snarling. I picture him snarling and being precariously in control-- sort of like if Harry grew up to be in the Matrix. All right, -fine- shut up, I know! I love it, anyway. Mmmmm, bitter rage. What, what??

+ Draco Veritas, by Cassie Claire.

    Well, this is Cassie's Harry, and to me he's almost like his own entity, whatever his relationship to canon (sort of like Maya's Draco). There's that gorgeous play on strength and loyalty coupled with vulnerability and half-assed cock-suredness and careless bravado, again, that makes Harry Harry-like to me. He's so messed up and desperately trying to hold together 'cause he -has- to, and he's not doing too well and omg when he needs someone he really needs them, and he's still going to do what he set out to do no matter what the cost. OMG THE LOVE.

+ You've Got Nothing, Harry Potter [& Thess' Harry in general]

    The thing about Thess' Harry is-- he's such a boy. He's all insecure and vulnerable and yet with all that bravado and determination and fire. He's not heroic except in a reckless boyish sort of way where he just does things because he has to and wants to and he's got an ego, oh yes. Maybe that's it. I think Thess has a great handle on Harry's ego-- the everyday things that are important to him (his friends, his parents, winning, Quidditch, getting through classes, not thinking about Voldemort any more than necessary). I just want to cuddle him and give him kittens. And Malfoy. He could use a Malfoy, too. Heeee <333

+ Artful Facade, by Sky [honorable mention]

    Wah, this is still probably my favorite Harry in a dark scenario. I love the way she plays on his self-destructiveness and fascination with death and fear/need for some sort of power or control. I found it believable, especially pre-OoTP, the gradual growth of darkness in him and the way everything disintegrates-- but he remains semi-opposed. I love the teetering on the edge-- and of course, since it's a WIP, he's forever teetering, now. And that's Harry, to me. He still wasn't sadistic or mean, because I don't think Harry could be. My Harry couldn't be. I am very prejudiced about this, too :> :>



- DRACO.

+ Beware the Fury of a Patient Man, Red [& Miss Breed's Draco in general]

    To me, Draco's pretty defined by his anger and envy and sense of powerlessness, however he chooses to deal with these things. Draco is angry. Draco is Very Very Angry. And yet he's so juvenile and easily flustered and he flushes and he stomps off and he breaks the head of that stupid action figure because STUPID SODDING POTTER!! >:O (OMG THE LOVE!!1) Because Draco Malfoy -hates- Harry Potter. He hates him. He Really Really Really Really hates him :D :D :D!!

    In `Red', he's being a bit more subtle, of course. The awful, horrible, inexplicable attraction messing with Draco's mind. It doesn't sit very easily. It doesn't bring out the best in him. He's spiteful-- and yes, okay, he's got style, 'cause no matter what-- the snark, baby. The snark lives on. He's such a complete bumbling prat. Also, he was almost coming in his pants from snogging Harry even at age 13, clearly setting a great example for the rest of his sorry little life. Obviously, <33333333333

+ Underwater Light [& Maya's Draco in general]

    To me, there's Draco & then there's Maya's Draco, and it's almost irrelevant at which points they do or do not coincide, because UL!Draco just has this force of personality, I guess. Sometimes he does seem too perfect (through Harry's eyes), but I don't love him for the obvious things. I love him for the things underneath, for all the rage and insecurity and desperate fear and loyalty bubbling barely under the surface. I love the way Harry just cuts through him, and the way he's got his certain sort of pride, and the way he refuses to believe in love but he doesn't stand a chance. And well, okay, the snark. <333

+ And I Get By, Double Dare [& Silvia's Draco in general]

    I love Silvia's Draco beyond all reason, so we'll just start with that. I don't love him for anything-- I love him for everything. I adore him beyond all others-- he's just. Perfect. So yes, horribly biased, okay, moving on. Silvia makes him lovable without a single apology in sight. He's awful, he's completely stuck-up and deluded and childish and selfish and mean-- and Harry is his. Completely his-- and Silvia makes it work.

Also? Silvia's Draco is hilarious, but never in a too-good-to-be-true way like Maya's Draco sometimes seems to me, because one's usually laughing at him as much as (or as well as) laughing with him. He says (and does) the most nonsensical, wild things-- and it's not so much witty one-liners or snark as being completely insufferable as well as slightly mad. The boy's a complete menace-- to himself! I LOVE HIM SO MUCH, YOU HAVE NO IDEA >:O

+ The More Things Change, by Dee.

    This is a great, great characterization of Draco-- not particularly witty, not particularly subtle, just spoiled and confused and resentful as ever. He's not particularly brilliant or outstanding in any way, but he's human and understandable and a little lost, and that goes a long way with me. He's angry enough to take what he wants, even if it's (shock!) Potter, and that's as much as I would hope for. I never gave Dee feedback for this (wah), and this isn't it, but this is a pitch-perfect extrapolative fic for Draco at the very beginnings of finally growing up.

+ Beasts and Butterflies, by Riddle [honorable mention]

    It's been a very long while since I last read this, but I have a soft spot for maddened, dark Draco, drowning in himself and his Malfoy legacy and everything going the worst possible way. He's sort of been stripped down to need and despair, with his usual compass awfully twisted. It's not so much that he's IC, exactly, as I like the sheer emotional drive here, whereas so many people make Draco reserved. Riddle's Draco is pretty much a wreck, and hey, I like him that way.

+ A List of Draco Malfoy's Faults [& Trin's Draco in general]

    My extreme preference for characters more than a little unhinged and actually somewhat pathetic strikes again. Malfoy is a freaky albino spider. Harry is a pervert. Hey, works for me!
~~


- RON.

+ Screwed, by Slytherlynx.

+ The Pop Goes The Weasel trilogy, by Durendal.

+ A Series of Definitions, by Silvia.

+ His Belongings, by Penelope.


- PANSY.

+ Loved Those of Great Ambition, by Maya


- CHO.

+ 6 Ways of Unpinning a Butterfly, by Serious Black.

+ Veela Magic, by Lasair


- REMUS.

+ Drawing Down the Moon, by Ailei & Khirsah.

+ Nightswimming, by Rave.

+ Coin Tossers, by Sloane.

+ Parting, by Bow.

Comments

[carrielee.livejournal.com]

Your lists have made my day. Couldn't agree with this more:

I've always latched onto the vulnerabilities in characters-- and people in general, I guess. Give me their anger, their need, their frustration, their hope, their insecurity. Give me their bitter hearts

Now I'm thinking of my favorite poem by Stephen Crane about the bitter heart...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I'm pretty obsessed with that poem, man :> :> And with Crane's poetry in general-- and in fact that's what I was thinking of when I wrote that line~:) Hee.
The bitter heart is a great visual to describe what I long for in life & in fiction~:))

[carrielee.livejournal.com]

Is it too early in our relationship to tell you I love you?

Okay, I'll just say I like how your brain works.

(Note to self: avoid the scary stalker comments.)

[weatherby.livejournal.com]

So. That's where I'm coming from, really. That's the problem with fanon!Draco for me-- I can't dig a Draco that has no chinks & ugliness to him-- or a Harry, for that matter. I've always latched onto the vulnerabilities in characters-- and people in general, I guess.

That is pretty much how I feel, too. I was just filling out a fannish 5 a bit ago, and one of the questions was what your favourite characters are usually like, and I could only think that my favourite characters are usually the ones I find a bit pathetic. I like to see where they are petty, where they think they are far more important than they are, and on and on. I don't read much Draco fic because frequently the author really just wants to see Draco WIN for once, when I really want to see him lose. My personal favourite Draco is Telanu's in the Tea Series, because he's so completely ... hmm, I'm not sure what the word I want is. He's so peripheral, and such a petty little idiot. I like the way she writes Draco best, I think, because she hates him. I tend to like Draco in the fics written by very very strict hetters, too -- the ones where the writer hates Draco, loves everything according to the way it is displayed in canon (i.e., Ron and Hermione fancy each other, Draco is evil and if you like him you're anticanonical, etc.), because writers who hate Draco write him in a way I enjoy much better than ones who find him to be a sex god.

But always in things, my favourite character is the one with the worst qualities. Edmund and Eustace in the Chronicles of Narnia, although I know they have their respective sort of redemptions.

I have more trouble seeing things with Harry and I don't think I've read many fics that made me think about how canon Harry is in it.

And I CANNOT get this freaking comment to post.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee. I know what you mean about the people who hate him writing Draco... though I guess I'm turned off by just how shallow the character seems. Usually, I like it best when the author either loves him utterly or hates him, but when they hate him, too often he's barely -there-, y'know. I loved Telanu's little H/D drabble-- I love it when people who hate H/D write it, 'cause often enough they concentrate on the violence and the hate, and hey, I dig that. On the other hand, it frustrates me 'cause when the people who write Draco hate him, they tend to make him just completely insignificant, as well. I mean, I definitely don't mind if Draco's pathetic & ridiculous, but I want to read -about- him, I want to love him anyway. That's what I love about Dee's fic & Silvia's fics and such-- he's just a spoiled little tosser, but one cares about him because it's his story. I don't like seeing characters I'm into from a distance, I guess, which is why I'm not big on ensemble fics, y'know.

I don't think I've ever really found a fic I thought had canon!Harry either. Sigh. But oh well ^^;

My favorite characters tend to be the ones I can empathize with the emotions of 'cause they're -out- there, they're strong. I don't mean to say I empathize with whoever's the biggest drama queen or anything. More like-- whoever's the most under pressure, the most set upon by circumstances and has this strong emotional core that you could tell feels these things deeply. I don't care what a loser someone is-- if they really feel their losses, I guess. If it's nothing to them & they're dumb & narrow in emotional scope, they just bore me, like the majority of people I guess :> heh.

[weatherby.livejournal.com]

Actually part of the reason I like Draco in Telanu's Tea Series--I'm guessing you haven't read it because I think you dislike Harry/Snape, yes? (I'm not a Harry/Snape fan either, actually, and Telanu's is almost the only Harry/Snape I've read)--is that he isn't the main character. I have read Draco up and down and in and out and over and under and around fandom and it was nice to see him portrayed in a fic as he is in Harry's life in canon: fairly insignificant until he does something to piss Harry off. I get sort of tired of fics where Draco is made out to be way more important in Harry's life than he is. I mean, if it's Harry/Draco slash, of course he's going to become more important as the slash builds, but I don't like when he's a major player in Harry's life before the slash is even a ghost of a thought in the plot's mind.

I think we all like characters we empathise with, of course. I'm not sure I'd necessarily say I feel like Draco is under the most pressure or most set upon by circumstances in HP, though (although I'm not actually sure you're referring to Draco there, come to think of it). I don't know why I'm so excessively interested in characters being losers. It's not the only reason I like them, of course, and they're not the only characters I like, but for some reason I am very interested in characters who are small and petty. I love Ron when he is jealous of Harry, and I love when, in GoF, Harry throws that badge at Ron's head and says he hopes he got a scar, too. The whole thing is just so juvenile.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

OMG YOUR ICON!!1 <33333333 *cracks up* She looks like an alien or a fairy or something. :D :D!!
Er. But... I like/read H/S, just usually not romantic non-smutty H/S. I'm pretty OTP-ish in that it takes a lot for me to read a serious fic with either Harry or Draco in it where there's all this angst & build-up and so on, 'cause I just wouldn't believe in it very easily and there'd always be that tension and I dislike having to keep being thrown out of the story by thinking "eh, but...!". Like, it's ridiculous enough trying to imagine Harry is in luuuurve with Snape (omg, -please-), but seeing it contrasted to how he's still the same in every other way just brings it home to me how far away from my comfort-zone I am, I guess.

The worst example of this, and the fic that put me off reading serious H/S, probably, was `The Mirror of Maybe'. Words are not enough to describe my loathing for that fic. I hate it so much my toes curl in hatred, thinking about it. I want to kill it. If I could, I would. Okay, maybe not. But it just misses me off for some reason, not least because the little Draco cameo in it pissed me the hell off. Harry's so -uppity- and -mature- and above dealing with immature prats like Malfoy. Ergh. The hell!! I mean, I know he's back from the future or whatever, but the whole condescention thing drives me mad even thinking of it now (oh, I like -adults- like -Snape-, ooooh-- and Snape's such an immature adult it's ridiculous!).

I like the way you talk about it, though-- I mean, yeah, it's annoying how people don't tend to start from scratch (i.e., extrapolate from canon directly) in longfics. Ergh. I've thought about that a lot, wondering if it's just laziness or people don't believe they can do it or think it can't be done or what. I -want- to see same-old!Draco become Harry's-bitch!Draco. I want to see it step by step! Even if it takes the story years! I mean, that's why I'm an H/D shipper! But no. *sigh*
But the whole lack of actual -insight- into Draco puts me off of those other fics, 'cause it just makes me feel like they're -missing- something just in the other direction, y'know?

I love juvenile brattish behavior, btw~:)) And no, I wasn't exactly talking about Draco, more about what draws me to my favorite characters in general-- and Draco isn't, not in canon. For me, it's Harry all the way, eheheheh :> :> 'Cause I'm drawn to whomever has the deepest emotional history & Harry's really the only one whose inner world we follow, so :> I'm not very good at extrapolating sometimes. A lot of time ^^;
I think if one takes it from -Draco's- pov, he's under a lot of pressure & is a misunderstood little darling. Which is why I like fics from his pov, see. I know it's not really true, but it's still endearing following him around on his hopeless quest to get somewhere~:))

[weatherby.livejournal.com]

I like her hat! :)) I wear hats like that all the time, they are my favourite thing.

Okay, I'm not sure why I thought you didn't like Harry/Snape. Now I wonder who I was thinking of. I know you don't like Snape/Draco but there is someone who doesn't like Harry/Snape that surprised me, but now I don't know who it was.

Like, it's ridiculous enough trying to imagine Harry is in luuuurve with Snape (omg, -please-), but seeing it contrasted to how he's still the same in every other way just brings it home to me how far away from my comfort-zone I am, I guess.

Yeah, that's very ridiculous for me, too, really, but I like when he is the same in every other way because it makes it easier for me to buy. Although it does make me rather uncomfortable. I mean, I am very OTP too. I really don't read much that isn't Harry/Draco unless it's gen or Draco/Pansy, since that's sort of canon.

I have never read The Mirror of Maybe! So I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to it. :))

People used to extrapolate from canon a lot more than they do, although I'm sure I don't need to tell you that. But when they have done so, pretty often they start off with Draco being much more important to Harry than he is. Like with Sins of the Father--which I love, by the way, although I missed the last few chapters--it starts out from canon but with a major change in Draco, which is what happens a lot. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but that is why I find it refreshing when Draco does not become significantly more important because that is what happens so often.

For me Draco is the character I understand, and Harry is the one I don't, really. Which is strange since the books come from his POV, and I do understand him, but I don't relate to him. I see him from more of an outside POV and get very, "HARRY <3 <3 <3", which is something I don't do with Draco.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I don't like Snape/Draco but I'm writing it :> :> Heee! If only I could figure out how Snape would react after Draco used him for a sex power-play, I'd be all set. *coughs*

Draco is easy to understand, I think. Or is that just me? I guess if you -want- to understand him, he's easy-- he's got these simple sort of issues and a black-and-white world in his head. Plus he's so juvenile & predictable. I want Draco to be more unpredictable than he is in canon, but you'd have to extrapolate him into it. Which is like, fun! After OoTP, I was all excited 'cause it was harder to write H/D in some ways, and you'd have to be more extrapolative since you can't just starf off saying, "and then Harry woke up & Draco was TEH HOTTT", heh. And people, apparently, were like, "eh. too much trouble." ^^;

It's hard to have Draco (or whoever's the other main character in fanfic) become not more important than he is in canon, if you're using a side character. This is why, you know, fanfic is really -separate- from canon & why I can't read fanfic for canon I'm obsessively into. 'Cause it's never really going to sustain the main feel of the canon, generally. Like, I -want- to read about canon!Harry (moreso than about canon!Draco, even, and I dislike most fanon!Draco's so I figure I'm looking for more of a canon!Draco). But-- he's just not out there! It's so frustrating, but this is common, I find. As soon as I get invested in an aspect of canon (like say, OoTP!Harry), poof! It's near-impossible to find 'cause most likely the characterization is so good no one can mimic it very well. :/

I don't know why I say the things I say sometimes. Heh. Of course I do like it when Harry stays the same-- in character, that is-- no matter if it's H/S or H/D or whatever. But sometimes in his relationship to Draco-- in comparison-- there's almost this stubborn sort of regression. Like-- he often -refuses- to progress in that relationship. I dunno. Bitterness :> Related to how I'm bitter at how people treat Ron in H/D, maybe. :-?

I think I don't really identify with either Harry -or- Draco, unless you mean their emotional centers. And it slightly bothers me how people who ship them are so severely preferential sometimes to the point where they don't try to really understand what makes the other half tick. Meh. But that's neither her nor there :>

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's interesting you put Sins of the Father in for Harry, because as much as I really really like that story I kind of think of it as my model for Fanon!Harry, much in the way UL!Draco might be considered a model of Fanon Draco (or maybe the Trilogy one is a better example). Because the main thing that drives Harry in that story is this compassion he has for Draco because Draco's been brought low and Harry himself knows what he's going through and to me that's a big leap for canon Harry. I like Harry in the story, but it always strikes me as exactly the kind of cheat you get with a lot of fanon Draco where he's given this huge hoist up. With Fanon Draco it's more about taking away just enough anger to make him more witty and controlled...less desperate, really. I guess that's what I see in Compassionate!Harry too. It takes away some of that anger so that he's more rational towards Malfoy. Nicer, to put it blandly. It's not that Canon Harry couldn't grow into that (and might) just as Canon Draco might grow out of his most embarassing, childish tendencies. But to start a story with it already overcome is skipping a step, imo. (Not that skipping a step is against the rules, by any means.)

I love Artful Facade, Harry, though.

I thought weatherby's comment about Edmund and Eustace was interesting re Draco too, because it mentioned their "sort of" redemption and I would say they both have total redemptions and are ultimately far better people than the others because of it. Edmund's my favorite in that series and I always loved the line about he grew to be something like a much quieter and more thoughtful man than Peter or something like that.

[weatherby.livejournal.com]

Oh! Sorry, I said "sort of" because I don't think either one of them did anything that would require "redemption", per se -- when I think of "redemption" I usually equate it to someone who has done something you'd think was irrevocably damaging, like being a hard criminal, or something.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ah! I see. You're right!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well see, like I told S.-- this wasn't a list of "most canon characterizations"-- just my favorite ones. I wasn't really saying Ali's fic was canon!Harry, was I? I guess I didn't explicitly say he -wasn't-, but well-- yeah. Mind you, I read this before OoTP, also. I do think that the compassion aspect & his behavior towards Draco is questionable-- but that's not what I love about the characterization. As usual, I guess, I didn't go into enough detail. Sigh. I already babbled on so -much-, it would've pained me to write actual in-depth examinations of each fic ^^;

I love Ali's Harry because of his general normality, of the way he comes across as a normal person even though he's doing something weird and unlike him like being helpful to Malfoy for whatever reasons. I didn't mention my problems with the fics (and I -always- have problems, of course) because I was specifically talking about what I liked. Y'know? It wasn't a review, it was a short little blurb for explanation. Erm. I really wasn't meaning to be definitive about anything or claim some sort of extremity of actually thinking these things -through-, you know. Ha.

Harry's compassion in SotF is my least favorite thing about him-- I just love his approachability even if it's unlikely, or even OOC. I never said `To Rule in Hell' Harry was particularly IC, for instance, and I love him too, 'cause he's a badass & I'm all over that, heh.

...The problem with flippant lists is that people take them too seriously. ><;;

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I didn't think it meant these were supposed to be IC things, I just thought it was interesting that that one came up because I do like that story and the way the characters are progressing, I'm just always really aware of that when I read it. I also like that fic because of how Draco gets beaten up and just plods along grimly. I think he's got that in him.

Obviously I'm not a big one for characters needing to be IC completely...though of course I also think canon H&D could get it on under the right circumstances and with the proper development as well.:-D

I think we're definitely on the same page about the pathetic people who still fight--that's probably a big part of Draco in canon for me. And also probably what I love about UL!Draco, whom I do think is built with a lot of the things I love about canon Draco as well. So yeah, IC-ness, at least completely IC-ness, isn't necessary for me either.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

What would be -your- favorite Harry's, then?? heeeeee!! >:D

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

You know...I have no idea! I will have to think about it...

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

I am with you, sister.

To be honest, the reason I almost universally hate h/d is because i just can't believe that an *in character* Draco would ever (up to this point in book canon, prove me wrong in future!fic, people!) let Harry touch him, much less kiss him!

Draco would go see a Wizarding Pyschiatrist (an alchemist who tries to alter your brain?) rather than admit to even tolerating Harry.

*sigh* Half of my HP angst is tied up in this.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, see, the thing with H/D is-- you have to change both Harry & Draco, obviously. You can't just plug in canon!Harry & canon!Draco and have H/D-- you need to change them and mold them and have them have internal revolutions, basically. I like Draco as is, but not entirely-- I do want him to become more self-aware, more in control of himself, more successful somehow, just because otherwise it's too depressing 'cause Harry will wipe the earth with him.

I never actually claimed that IC!Draco wants Harry, wants him bad-- some people do; I don't. I only want to see a Draco who wants Harry, and it's partly -because- it's so unlikely and ridiculous and difficult to do. It just makes me happy to mess with his mind & torture him & make him like Potter. Nothing else would get to him quite the same way. It's great~:)) Whereas with Harry, I want to see him happy & content, with Draco I want to shake him up and make him uncomfortable & lost & in need of a re-evaluation of things. I'd never actually said it was easy or obvious-- I just like it -because- it's none of those things. 'Cause I'm just contrary & I like hopeless situations with lots of snark & anger & chemistry.

Sure, send Draco to a psychiatrist. He can't run away forever :>

[thessamunga.livejournal.com]

:-s

[thessamunga.livejournal.com]

It's a wibbly face, and translates to, "Wah, you do not like my Harry?"

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I include my own fic in the stinky category, for the record.

Heee! That takes away some of your authority, there, you know. :> :>
Although I'm perfectly willing to concede all/most of these have moderate-to-severe issues. Except I love them anyway, and some of them I think I'm just obsessed madly with, like Silvia, 'cause I think she stole the better part of my brain and made it a lot better. Damn, I hate it when that happens :> :>!

What are -your- favorite Harry's? (Mine is actually JKR's, but I felt I couldn't really include that, ahahah). *coughs*

[thessamunga.livejournal.com]

*breaks down* The last thing I could handle would have been you telling me my writing was stinky. :)))))) <33

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Well, seeeeee... I wasn't trying to be objective with these, man. Should I have made that more clear? I hadn't reread most of these fics before listing them, and the list was only of the fics that had characterizations I liked and found memorable. Quite often I said, "well, I'm just a sucker for this", and that was probably what I should've said with all of them. I wasn't saying they were great examples of extrapolative fanfiction-- except for Dee's fic, which I will defend as great in its Draco characterization if you like and I certainly hope that wasn't one of your unreadables~:))

The rest, I'm kind of easy with, whichever way you take them, as far as being IC or OOC. I wasn't making a list of "most IC fics", y'know? Just fics with my favorite characterizations~:)

And of course you're not the only person who likes the books, heh :> :> I do understand the bitterness, though ^^;

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

i'm not going to comment on these stories, because I haven't read all of all of them (some of some of them, all of others, ya know).

What I think it's pretty amusing about your take on Harry and Draco is that what you see as fanon and what I do has always been so v different. For example, i think that Harry in canon is a bitter boy who has blinders on to anything and everything but what he wants to see. He has made far worse mistakes than Draco (who is the villain!) and caused some pretty major damage just by being a jackass.

draco we know little about besides that he's petty, rich, and spoiled. That leaves a lot of room to insert personality, which i don't see as fanon. The same way that I don't see assuming that Hermione's parents are loving and supportive would be fanon.

He still wasn't sadistic or mean, because I don't think Harry could be. My Harry couldn't be.

that's sort of what I'm getting at. I think that Harry in OotP *is* mean. That isn't to say that he doesn't have plenty of reason to be. But I think that Draco would argue that he has tons of reasons for being petty and spiteful towards Harry.

I'm tired. anyway, you already know my opinions on this *g*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I love your Draco too, you know, but I couldn't think of which fic to pick, ahahah. I do agree that in OoTP, Harry was pretty vicious, but then, I couldn't think of a post-OoTP fic which actually -had- post-OoTP -Harry- in it, and also, you know-- there's a difference, to me, between lashing out and being angry and out of control and insensitive and actually being mean on purpose, which is really what I myself imply when I say "mean". Lots of people-- almost everybody-- is mean when they're upset or losing it or feeling isolated or whatever. Harry's no different-- he's not a saint. I just don't think he's as bad (or as good!) as some people make him out to be.

I think that whatever it seems like now, Harry has a good heart and that -has- to be a part of canon 'cause it has to be what his victory over Voldemort hinges on. If you take that as a given, OoTP becomes a necessary phase rather than a flowering of his character-- even though I -love- OoTP!Harry & his brattishness & immaturity & all of it. I guess this almost comes down to our definitions of "mean", even. Heh. I am pretty easy on people, I guess~:) I take their actions and consider -why- they did them & how that fits into their past and future before I ask myself whether they're being nasty gits, y'know? Not that I ever really think of anyone I remotely like as a nasty git anyway. And you must realize, I -love- Harry~:)

So yes, he's a jackass, but he doesn't mean to be. In my mind, that makes him not a jackass, ahahah. Draco... Draco means to be a jackass, even if he thinks he has reason. He's still not -completely- a git in my mind because he's so immature & not calculating about it, so I write it off as "acting out" to some extent, y'know? Like I said, I'm pretty forgiving of these things.

As far as what's fanon....
It's hard to define explicitly what canon is because everyone has a different opinion of the books to some degree, so no one's going to have an exactly identical starting point. That said, this was never a list of "most canon characterizations", was it? No, they were just my favorite ones, and most of them I didn't consider particularly fanonish, in that if I -did- think they were OOC, they were at least uniquely so :>

So yes, I give Draco (and Harry) room and yet I kind of expect some things of them at the same time, and this list was just me trying to figure out what it is that I expect and want from them, exactly~:))

[(Anonymous)]

So. That's where I'm coming from, really. That's the problem with fanon!Draco for me-- I can't dig a Draco that has no chinks & ugliness to him-- or a Harry, for that matter. I've always latched onto the vulnerabilities in characters-- and people in general, I guess.
I agree, obviously, but for me there is only very specific character flaws I can stand. Pathetic!Harry for instance seems pretty common in the fandom, you know the stories where he is depicted as a horribly vulnerable, scared and broken little boy relying quite often on Draco of all people to comfort and protect him (eg. Resolution.) I HATE this Harry and would much rather read about an unrealistically perfect and well-adjusted one. So, yeah, for me jealousy, pettiness, egotism and many other character flaws are brilliant but I just can't handle debilitating fear or sadness.

Also I don't understand why UL!Draco is thought of as the archetypal fanon!Draco, I thought Fanon!Draco was all about being ridiculously cool, calm, mature and tortured whereas UL!Draco was, although glorified, still very childish and over-energetic. I always thought of him as being one of the more accurate Draco depictions, particularly in Loved Those of Great Ambition.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Um... you do know that you don't need an invite code anymore, right? That you could get an account just like that, to post comments with....? Just wondering. My paranoid self thinks maybe you -want- to be anonymous, but, er. We'll just pretend I'm never paranoid. 'Cause clearly I'm not.

Ahahah you know what's funny? I can't even remember the plot in `Resolution'. At all. Like. AT ALL. Except there's someone named "Cloud"... and I think it's Ron. And he's plotting against Harry, for some reason. The why escapes me. Also, Harry really wants to fuck Draco-- and likewise. Mmmm, on to the porn. Yes. *eyes glaze* heh.

I know what you mean about pathetic!Harry. Pathetic!Harry pisses me off, actually-- which is why I added in that little dig while I was talking about Ivy's Harry-- saying that he's gentle but not weak. I like badass Harry & on-top-of-things Harry. Clearly, weak and desperate-for-affection Harry kind of rubs me the wrong way-- and besides which, it's awfully OOC~:))

I like pathetic characters who stand up for themselves and fight back and snark & don't wallow in it. They're kind of sad and twisted, but they'll go down fighting even though they'll go down. Otherwise it's sappy & trite, y'know? Heh. I don't think it's a choice between an unrealistically perfect Harry and a broken-doll Harry-- I think all those fics I'd chosen, whatever you could say about them, have a Harry that keeps it together without being perfect or ridiculously well-adjusted. And anyway, people who're too well-adjusted just kind of scare me. ^^;

I think sadness can be done well if the character doesn't give into it entirely and become a soppy mess. It doesn't have to be that way. I think `Screwed' & `Parting' & `6 Ways of Unpinning a Butterly' all had great depictions of sadness that were never really sticky-gooey to read. And `Artful Facade' falls into the "sad" category as well, I think, while still retaining spark. It depends if one has spirit, I guess-- if one does, no emotional territory is really squicky, since it's being done -right- :>

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

I posted mine here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/dorrie6/167050.html). Not much description (I'm pressed for time), but... yeah. There they are.

[chresimos.livejournal.com]

I like the concept of this list.

The only one of these fics I have read (besides DV) is Nightswimming, after you praised it so greatly a little while ago. I didn't like Remus in that one at all. I've read very little Sirius/Remus, but I've repeatedly seen piningforSirius!torturedly!Remus coupled with I don'tcare!yetyouarehot!Sirius. Okay, so a man can change from between high school and teacher-age, but that characterization really, really annoys me.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Eh. Yeah, that does sound bad. I wasn't thinking very clearly (with exhaustion) by the time I got to Remus :T
Hmmm. Well, I was thinking of Prufrock's Remus as contrast-- where you have -Sirius- obsessed with -Remus- and -Remus- being like, sort of, "you're not good enough for me". I'd rather it have neither, but it's not necessarily that I think Nightswimming!Remus is realistic so much that it stayed with me :>

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

:">

Rach's Draco is the best best best.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee! >:D
...do you have a favorite Harry? ...i feel like i'd stepped on some people's feet with these. *coughs* >

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

:-?

I'm really fond of aspen/Cassie/wanksore's Harry, probably because she mostly writes him during his Hogwarts days.

I think it's a lot harder to find like excellent Harrys, because writing Harry is more difficult than any other character, IMO. I can easily name fics where Harry is IC, but those aren't necessarily the ones that stand out, you know?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the ones that stand out, heh. I feel all embarrassed about picking some of those Harry's, but those are the ones that stood out in my mind ^^;
Most people that are IC feel passionless to me, and as soon as they do get into Harry's more volatile aspects, it gets all mawkish & shippy & stuff. I came really close to just saying, "my favorite Harry is JKR's", ahahah. My favorite Draco isn't JKR's though, not all the time anyway :>

It's sad 'cause I can think of excellent versions of every other character, too. Well, maybe not Hermione, necessarily, but I'm sure they're out there too.
I wanted to include Aspen's Harry (well, more like Draco 'cause now I can't help but associate her with Draco more), but I couldn't think of any one particular definitive fic. Maybe I just have a bad memory though? :-?

I really have an unreasoning amount of dislike for almost everyone's post-Hogwarts Harry. Gergh. Well, Antenora just goes over the top with him-- I mean, if people try to seriously extrapolate. He gets either dark & brooding or like, all grown up & sensible. Makes me want to growl at him & disown him, eheheh :>

[eleveninches.livejournal.com]

I sort of want to name Draco Malfoy and the Heart of Slytherin as having my favourite Harry, and yet... I feel embarrassed. I don't know why.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHAAH >:D!!! *laughs and points*

...i mean....

*coughs* Yeah, I really liked that fic when I read it, though I can't say much for the Draco characterization, and ahahaha Harry had muscles & was stoic & tough :D :D!!
This is better than a lot of 'em, mind you~:))!

[weatherby.livejournal.com]

I love Cassie's Harry, too. I agree about the Hogwarts days thing; I've never read a Harry that was post-Hogwarts that I thought was terribly IC--not that I thought he was so much OOC, either--or any other character post-Hogwarts, for that matter.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

You have no Sirius(es) here! Then again, all your Siriuses are probably sleeping with Remus, so they've got to be pretty sad.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Actually, I can't remember any outstanding Sirius characterizations off-hand. Sometimes they were Pretty Good, but never stellar. It's like, Sirius comes through best for me when he's looking at another character or being looked at. But, I suppose I'll have to say the best Sirius is the one by Lupercali (http://glitterati.illuminatedtext.com/writing/hp/index.html). The thing with S/R is-- it doesn't even matter whether it's the pairing one would prefer for both or either of them-- there's a lot of well-written stuff out there, and that's why I read it (same with H/D, actually). I mean, no one writes S/J anyway, so. *shrugs*

`Vector' is particularly great. It's not sappy or romantic or... I dunno, angsty/depressive either-- their relationship, I mean. She writes them like they were real people, with real ambiguities, and that is always what convinces me. I know I say things like 'but James is straight' or 'but Ron is straight', but weirdly enough, I love characterizations like this, though-- like, this Sirius is 'basically straight' (and Remus isn't)-- and it's like, he sort of... takes Remus for granted and yet subliminally revolves around-- depends on him in a weird way. I can just SEE this. This is post-Hogwarts for them, and... I dunno, I just think... this is precisely the sort of Sirius & Remus non-shippers think no one writes.

[monkeytech.livejournal.com]

I absolutely Adore copperbadge's Sirius in the Stealing Harry Universe (http://oojahs.snoo.org/potterfic/hpfic.htm) even though it's a complete AU universe because he is a little bit narcissistic and reckless and snarky and yet manages to come out as a guy who holds fast to the things he loves. I think too often Sirius is given too much wisdom, and not enough of his faults. In Canon, he's a very imperfect character. He thinks rashly, he holds grudges, he doesn't consider the consequences of his actions, but his heart's in the right place. I like a flawed Sirius in fanfic, but not one who's too stubborn to see what's important in his life.

I also really like Sirius in In Curves Not Angles (http://archive.skyehawke.com/story.php?no=5580), where he has the perfect combination of mischieviousness, heart, and that part of him that makes you want to wring his neck for putting his foot in his mouth again. Flawed, but likeable.

It could just be a personal thing, but I really don't like fics where Sirius is so torn and broken from azkaban and his terrible life. It's logical that he would have that response to the trauma he's been through, but Canon shows us that he's not the dark, depressed character some writers make him out to be. He may be a bit broken, but he's still retained that spark in him, and doesn't ever give up on anything, whether it's his grudge against Snape, his mischievious streak, or his grasp on life.

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

*insert whining about not being on list, because, dude, it's never too late to be insecure after the fact!*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heheh. Man, I'm like that too-- anytime I see a list of favorites, if I'm not on it, I immediately decide I suck and wonder if I should stop writing and become a grocery seller. Or something like that ^^;;
You know, it's like... I guess I don't associate you with writing a particular characterization of Harry or Draco...? It's like you said, you write stories, and your characters develop within them according to the circumstances. Like, these writers all have a certain... constant characterization, I think :>

[bookshop.livejournal.com]

:D You're right, I don't. I don't really comprehend of having a "my" Harry or a "my" Draco, because Harry, as I've said before, is never going to be in the same situation twice, and he's not always going to be the same Harry from fic to fic, depending on what he's gone through.

However, you're naming individual *fics* here rather than general characterizations, so. NICE TRY. :P

Dude, I read Adela's favorites list the other day and was all, "WAH WAH WHY AM I NOT ON HERE, SHE IS NAMING EVERYONE ELSE BUT ME WAH SHE HAAATES ME" and didn't even realise that it was for completed LONG fics until, like, after I'd spent 2 days wibbling about it. :))

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think it took me awhile to realize that people's preferences are just that-- those people's preferences. Like, if someone likes a writer, it says as much about them as the writer, and if a -lot- of people like a writer, that says something about the writer's accessibility of subject, language and tone more than it necessarily says about their 'skill', per se. Like, I'll never be on the favorites list of people who like suave, beautiful gorgeous Slytherin Sex-God!Draco. Never. That's most of fandom, man -.- I will never write fic which gives easy answers or is very reassuring on the one hand or very melodramatically sad on the other. I am pretty much amazed anyone does 'get' it, to so speak... but sometimes I just want to write veela!Draco on ff.net (ie, sell out) even though I'll hate myself in the morning :>

But anyway. Even though I was picking specific stories, I thought they were representative of the writer's 'ouvre' so to speak, especially in cases like Silvia or Trin or Thess. It's like, I can't think of a fic of yours where it's Harry or Draco's -characterization- that stands out-- usually the reason I love your fics is the dynamic between them and the way you make them -make sense- together. It's like, they're part of a unit rather than two individuals who just happen to want each other. When you write romance, you write them as... MFEO, y'know? It's not like, it's -bad- 'shipper' fic, quite the opposite, but that's what romance -is-, really, and you bring it off really well :> Whereas... like, Ivy wrote romance too, but it was much more about their individual growth and identity rather than their -mutual- identity, if that makes sense.