~~ squick me baby. awww yeah.

[reenka]

So I was talking to Cassie and for the first time, I considered the fact that yes, maybe the Dursleys are worth writing about. Not because one would like them as people, but just because they would be interesting to explore the possibilities of. I mean, I hate the Dursleys-- I hated them as soon as I found out about them at page 1 of book 1. It was clearly the reaction the book was advocating (a little too blatantly for my tastes), and I was just as disgusted as prescribed. I tend to be a pretty pliable, receptive reader-- which is why I rarely read non-OTP fics, for example. While I read something, I tend to believe in it, and that disturbs me if it clashes with something already dear to me, but I can't help it. Easily brainwashed, I guess :> :> Hee!

But anyway, that's not the point. The point is, a lot of people who dislike H/D say it's because they dislike Draco. Clearly, there are a lot of reasons (in canon) to dislike him, especially if you're a reader who tends to accept rather than subvert the material while reading. A lot of times, any discussion of H/D as a pairing, in fact, degenerates into Draco-bashing (i.e., saying Harry hates him & that he's got got the right idea, basically). Conversely, a lot of your run-of-the-mill H/D shippers have a serious case of Draco-worship (the fanon ideal of Draco, anyway) going on. It seems to be taken for granted that one has to be able to like the character as a person to make them worthy of pairing with another character (which one likes, especially). And also, as a side point, that the writer/reader should like this character, whether or not the one being paired with them does or not.

It occurred to me how silly that is, and how much I don't buy into it, really.


Thing is, I don't like Draco as a person-- of course I don't. He's a stupid git most of the time-- who really -likes- that unless they think they -are- that? But what does that matter? I'm not pairing myself with him, am I? I realize a lot of people -do- basically pair themselves or some aspect of themselves with their favorite character, but baby, that's not my thing. I mean-- I identify with Luna, and I can't bear to ship her with anyone. I think Snape is "my type" as far as that goes, but I don't ship him with anyone either. It's a -story-, not a sexual fantasy (to me, anyway). Even if I write sex scenes, I don't necessarily write what -I- want to happen to -me-. I just explore the character dynamic & maybe it gets me off & maybe it doesn't, but even if it does, it's because I can imagine the characters' emotions and those are always easy to identify with.

So what I'm saying is-- to me, there's no need to like Draco, not to write about him and not to read about him. It helps to -understand- him, of course, and generally, people write what they understand and they understand what they love (better) and what they hate very little. It's fanfic and of course people are going to go after their kink most of the time. Usually, I find my kink is a certain romantic dynamic rather than any particular character-- but a number of people do just have a love-on for a character and off they go. Also, I know that people read/write fanfic for different reasons, and usually it's not to explore the world & characters but rather to have more of what they like already, what pushes their buttons.

Of course, inspired as Cassie made me, that doesn't mean I'm any more likely to read/write Lucius (whom I don't like)-- so maybe I do like Draco, in a way-- in terms of the things he can tell me, if not in terms of wanting him for myself. Don't get me wrong, I love Draco-- liking him isn't the same, though.

In fic, I tend to like a Draco that's hard to like, that's prickly and mean and not so brilliant (though I like him brilliant too, of course I do, I'm easy, really). I like to be challenged and prodded in my soft spots for him-- but then, I already love him, so that's not going away. Hmmmmmm. But I just think it's fun to write/read about uncomfortable things, things outside one's comfort zone with characters-- it could lead one to surprise oneself & also to pay more attention to the story rather than some pre-arranged notion of what should happen. And yeah, I do practice what I preach, though not nearly enough, since mostly I'm here for the happy place. I guess it depends whether you aspire to other things or not, in the end.
~~

Also, looking through gettyone.com, I found the perfect Draco. Heeeee! Am in love! 'Cause. The snake! And the stare!! And eeeeeeeee!! Plus, heeeeee, there's Ron and Ginny, too. They so are >:D

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's the ticket-- love them while you write them. Although for me, if you write them (or read them) as sympathetic often enough, you do sorta grow to love them in general. When I first started writing Harry, I didn't really have a clue how I felt about him-- he was kind of a mystery to me. There really isn't a consistent Harry in the fanfic I'd read-- he's all over the place, unlike Draco, who does have characterization trends. I didn't know why the hell he'd want Draco, I just wanted him to want him (er... because I'm perverted and want people to want things they don't really want, eheheheh).

So I started writing him, and eventually I had my own Harry, somehow, and then I loved him, 'cause I began to understand him and have a rapport. And I couldn't say it's any quality of his that makes it happen-- it's just that I feel for him, I want him to be happy, I'm sad when he's sad. He's been around so long in my head by now that I couldn't 0not- love him. So yeah, my writing has gotten progressively better for it, too, I think, because of the growth in empathy.

Still, I think one does need to write about things one doesn't understand (yet) to -get- to understand them, because if you try long enough, it comes to you, y'know? Like, you start off with some automatic instances of rapport with some characters, but if you keep hacking away at it, that circle grows, and that can be a pretty satisfying feeling. I mean, I didn't know I understood Ron until I -wrote- Ron with an open mind. Same with Pansy. It's like, by really allowing myself to ignore my initial personal relationship to the characters, I changed that relationship. At least that's how it works for me~:)

Though it's prolly inevitable that one would still have preferences-- just like I still don't really love Pansy even though I kind of loved her while I wrote her. So it probably does differ from person to person ^^:

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

Still, I think one does need to write about things one doesn't understand (yet) to -get- to understand them, because if you try long enough, it comes to you, y'know?

YES. I really think this is the big thing for me. I write Harry because I genuinely love him, and maybe because I feel that I understand him. I write Draco because I want to understand him, and we are given so little information about him in canon. There is so much possibility there... so much to find out about him, or for him to find out about himself. I feel that Draco is still very much a child. He's all talk. He doesn't understand the things he's talking about the same way Harry does. He is untried. I think I write him with Harry because I think Harry is a compelling enough personality to make Draco want to think about things that he is not really thinking about so far. Also, I think he is obsessed with Harry in canon, which is interesting as well. I'm not sure I can say that I love Draco, but I can say that I want to know him. I want to know who he can be, and I want to see him through his own eyes, not Harry's, which is how we see him in the books.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think there's definitely a subset of people wanting to understand and/or `redeem' Draco (even while they don't necessarily love him), but not say-- Dudley or Filch or Millicent, or any of the other Slytherins Harry knows besides Snape. There's definitely something -attractive- about Draco (even if just to Harry), that makes him `worth knowing' to a lot of people, whatever -that- means. And I do think it's interesting to also look into characters without that charm & glamour of possibility-- just icky dull characters like the Dursleys~:)

That said, I don't think I really could approach anyone I wrote very much about with a very theoretical & dispassionate eye. I -have- to love them while I write them, to some degree-- and for me, some of that emotion is going to stay. I don't see a -reason- to love Draco, but I suppose I love him not because there's a reason or he'd want/need me to but because I can't help it. I can empathize with his rage & helplessness & fear & obsessiveness & greed. I think focusing too much on his need of Harry steals a certain strength he'd need to be really -worthy- of Harry, maybe. I'm not sure.

But I love reading the -fic- of people who love Draco the most, I think, because they put so much fire & personality into him, and they make me understand why Harry loves him, which is really the Big Question, isn't it. Not `why Draco' but `why Harry'. And, you know, I'm convinced that Harry -does- love him (eventually. in my head). They both have a ways to go before they really achieve each other's affection/love-- and they're mutually obsessed with each other, I think. I love the possibilities behind writing it that way, anyway. I love them both desperate & broken & needy, but also strong in different ways, too.

Maybe this is all my non-canon-centricness peeking through ^^;

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

I read a fic once that my initial comment on was something like "She actually made me care about Millicent Bulstrode. Who knew it could be done?" I think that author must have cared about Millicent to be able to write her like that. On the other hand, it also has to be mostly made up, because we know almost nothing about Millicent from the canon, not much more than her name. So I'm not sure what that is. I've read some Dudleys like that as well, though I didn't like them as much. It's funny though... I don't think there is anything attractive about canon Draco. I think he interests me because of his weaknesses, which are always things I can relate to much more than strengths. He needs attention and he is afraid of everything. If I love him it is for his fears and his mistakes and his irretrievably wounded pride when Harry would not take his hand. It is those things that makes me want to know him, and why I think Harry would want to as well, once he could actually see it. I think the more I write him, the closer I get to loving him. Harry was easy- I loved him already. I think that's why I write from Draco's POV. He's the one I'm really interested in learning to love.

I love them both desperate & broken & needy, but also strong in different ways, too.

This I can agree with wholeheartedly.

As for Harry, and the big why... I guess I'm still struggling with that, which is a good thing because once I figure it out, I won't have anything to write about anymore. Heh.

I'm not sure I'm making sense. It is very late.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I understand what you're saying (people usually have to be -pretty- incoherent before I'm confused), though if I honestly ask myself what -interests- me about Draco... oh man. I'm not "interested", exactly, like... er. I'm interested in Luna, maybe, 'cause she's just weird & insane, and I think that's... y'know... cool. But generally I'm not interested in things/people I don't like. Heh. So for me, the idea of being "interested" in some quality of Draco's doesn't quite compute. Thinking back on it, I think I -identified- with Draco-- not canon, exactly, but some emotional extrapolations made from canon. I channeled his rage, I guess you'd say.

It's been awhile for me, though. I started this whole HP thing in May 2002, so~:) We're at different stages, I think. Which is why I keep thinking back to how I used to feel, back in the beginning. And I think I didn't love or =not- love Draco-- I just understood his basic emotional states. I was like, yeah man, I feel your pain. I didn't like him, but he spoke to me. Or rather yelled at me and screamed at me and railed and growled and cut himself up in my head. Harry was never so blatantly obvious, so he took longer (it's so weird, starting with fanon. It really is). I can see how starting with canon would make it harder to love Draco, 'cause there's all this knowledge of his actual self rather than his theoretical underpinnings. I'm not sure if I can explain it, and in any case most people don't believe I have anything to say that's worth hearing on the matter, referring to my old ideas before I'd read canon. Heh.

It's just-- I never -judged- Draco, see. I was just subsumed in him-- I dunno if it was -canon- Draco I was subsumed in, but there was this rageful hollowness in me & it said it was Draco, I guess. Heh. I started with an emotional outpouring at worked my way to words and ideas, rather than starting with ideas and getting towards love & other emotions, I guess.

Also, I know what you mean about stopping once you figure it out. I feel that way too, I think. Though I think by now, they'll stay in my head permanently whether I write them or not~:)

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

Okay, now that I've had some sleep, I think I will be able to understand what the hell I'm talking about just a little bit better. :)

I think maybe one thing I've been missing while trying to explain myself is something you mentioned here. When I said that I wanted to know Draco because of his weaknesses, I think what I failed to explain is that it is because I identify with his weaknesses (it is difficult to know about his strengths, because JKR has taken great pains to conceal them from us- as well she should since we are seeing him through Harry's biased eyes). That is exactly it. Perhaps that is what it really takes to write about a character. I identify with Harry as well... both weaknesses and a few of his strengths, but that was a lot more immediate for me. That was love at first sight, perhaps. I think, actually, that is why I really loved OotP, more than a lot of people did. I got to know Harry even more, and see more sides of him that I could understand. That goes for a few other characters too... she is starting to be a little more rich in her characterization.

I think I hadn't realized that you started with fanon (I can be quite dense at times), which explains a lot of your evolution with these characters. I actually don't think that makes your pre-canon thoughts invalid at all, and those who have said it does, should perhaps take a moment to ponder what that says about their fanfiction and how successfully they were portraying the canon characters at that time. I think that's a really interesting way to get into the canon and I'm not surprised that the fanon hooked you. One of the things that drew me into this fandom (though I'd been a rabid fan of the books for a very long time) is that a lot of the fanfiction is SO good, and often more insightful into JKR's characters than her own writing is, or at least much more willing to explore the characters (like Draco) who she only gives us very one-dimensional views of. One thing I learned from acting (which is my former profession) is that nobody thinks they are a villain. Everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, even if they have to practice a lot of self-deception to get there. Everyone thinks they are the hero. Only comic book characters revel in being "evil". That's where perception is so important, and you had the unique opportunity to be introduced to Draco by someone other than Harry, which puts a whole different spin on him and probably allowed you to see his humanity a lot more easily and quickly than the rest of us were able to. I don't see how that makes your thoughts about him any less valid. Draco's potential is still there, whether we could see it or not. You just got to see it faster than most.

I have gone on far too long about not much at all. I'll try to wrap up.

As for us being at different stages- yes, I think you are definitely right there. I'm actually rather enjoying coming into the fandom at this late date, as annoying and newbie-ish as I may be to some, because it means I get to enjoy a huge wealth of already well-written fanfiction without having to be jaded yet. Heh. Seriously, though, it is a wonderful thing to be always have something new to read, even if it is old to everyone else. I'm actually quite grateful to those who love Draco for helping me to be able to see him differently than Harry does in canon, and to see the possibilities there for both of them. My husband won't read any HP fanfiction because the canon isn't finished (yeah, it's a thing) and thinks that I'm completely insane to be reading as much into Draco as I do now and for even considering him as someone that Harry could love. I guess that's the real canon purist's view. I think we're having more fun, though. :)

Also, I know what you mean about stopping once you figure it out. I feel that way too, I think. Though I think by now, they'll stay in my head permanently whether I write them or not~:)

Yes, I think that is the same for me. Even if I have nothing more to write about, I'm stuck with them forever now.

Okay. Stopping.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Heee~:) It's quite all right, I love it when people ramble at me-- makes me feel like less of a freak. Ahem. And it's even better when I feel like we're understanding each other, too >:D

This fandom's been around for so long-- since 2001 or so, I think? Online, anyway. So I mean... when I came in, the "classics" were already started (and most of them are still not finished, eheheh). I love having had this much to read-- but I suspect that the quantity of H/D is probably what drew me into the pairing as much as anything. I mean... especially starting from fanon. I accidentally found Durendal's fics, and then I just looked for more of the same pairing-- I always do that in fandoms. Find a pairing that clicks (usually the first one I find, or the most popular one-- yeah, I'm a sheep) and stick with it :> Ahahahah oh man, I sound like such a follower -.-

I loved OoTP too-- I -loved- books 3 & 4, but it's book 5 that really killed me-- well, in a good way. And yeah, it was all because of Harry. People who don't like OoTP!Harry make me really sad, because that's the Harry that needs their love the most, man. Wah. I think it's the books that really made me love for Harry go full throttle, whereas I definitely have fanon to blame for my love of Draco-- not that I love fanon!Draco, but it's just that I doubt I'd have thought twice about him if all I had to go on was canon. Yeah, I guess I really am a lazy reader ><

Generally, I feel the "truth" about a character lies somewhere in between fanon and canon-- between the reader's and the writer's mental spaces, somewhere that combines them & transforms them. But that's just me getting uber-meta again :>

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'd have thought twice about Draco with just canon, either, really. I didn't start to get interested in the pairing until I saw that people were writing it and then I went "ooooohhh". I might have started to think about him more in ponderings on the Sorting Hat's song in OotP... I feel like Slytherin and Gryffindor have to stand together in the end, at least to some extent, and that's what the Hat is trying to say. I would love to see Harry and Draco be the leaders in that. I don't know what she'll actually do, though (obviously), and my hopes may be pathetic.

Generally, I feel the "truth" about a character lies somewhere in between fanon and canon-- between the reader's and the writer's mental spaces, somewhere that combines them & transforms them. But that's just me getting uber-meta again :>

Actually this is very much like something I've been saying forever. I feel that as an artist of any kind, your work is ultimately collaborative, because as soon as it reaches your audience it is interpreted in as many different ways as there are audience members. That is the actual finishing touch on the work. The audience's interpretation is as valid and as much a part of the finished work of art as the author's/artist's/composer's intent. I think that is what makes creative work so powerful, and I think it is to be desired. It is the same reason I think fanfiction is a wonderful thing. It is the audience taking the work one step further. I love that so much.