~~ calling all in-character H/S fics!

[reenka]

So I subscribe to the V-Inc mailing list, and I get the digest so I skim all the the fics without reading, mostly. But seeing the random millionth reference to Harry confessing to Snape how much he finds his voice oh-so-sexy was just the last straw. I just need to know: Are there any fics out there that don't go in for these cliches? Anywhere? Anyone? Bueller?

In my sudden quest for an I-might-read-this-even-with-no-smut H/S fic, I'm looking for something--


- Where Harry isn't rabidly lusting after Snape's voice;
- Where Snape's wish to fuck Harry is UST or repressed for most of the fic, and he may not even know he wants to for the longest time-- he -definitely- didn't just suddenly have this lust-lightbulb switch on;
- Where they are not star-crossed lovers who're perfect for each other in every way, if only they'd get over themselves;
- Where no one feels the urge to call him `Severus', least of all Harry;
- Where Harry actually resents him and has childish issues with "but I HATE Snape, my GOD", through most of the fic-- and he never entirely learns to like him, though maybe he accepts that;
- Where Harry is not submissive and neither is Snape;
- Where Snape is not the most experienced and sexually potent and skilled person alive, and is in fact kinda bad except it's okay anyway. Kind of;
- Where Harry is still friends with Ron and Hermione and he's not any more "adult" or "intelligent" than ever;
- Where Harry doesn't have a "hormonal crush" and his feelings are all prickly and uncomfortable and confused;
- Where Snape is still greasy and mean to Harry, possibly moreso than ever in spite;
- Where Snape is still an amoral bastard and Harry still distrusts him and they don't like each other even though they maybe wouldn't mind using each other sexually. Maybe. Something like that. And maybe they're starting to reach an understanding (but it's an annoyed, exasperated understanding). Um?

EDIT - Trying to be reasonable, I'd say minimally:

- Harry doesn't suddenly like/want him;
- He doesn't obsess over Snape's voice;
- Both Snape and Harry remain basically the same;
- No gratuitous sweetness and usage of `Severus' occurs.

- Bonus points for this all not working out and being doomed (no, really??) and Harry -not- deciding to come back and be DADA professor, and instead getting into a nice committed hetero relationship while Snape grows more bitter. Mmmm, realism.

Is this even humanly possible to write? :/ ...I think maybe I'm impossible to please entirely, but an utter lack of "Oh Severus!-- Oh Harry!" and voice-lust would be nice.
    P.S. - heeeeee. Snape/Buckbeak - the perfect Snape pairing :D :D :D

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Where Snape is still an amoral bastard and Harry still distrusts him and they don't like each other even though they maybe wouldn't mind using each other sexually.

'Course to me that still doesn't work because neither the Harry nor Snape seems ready to use anybody sexually.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Yeah I know, ahahah. Hey, I work with what I have.
I mean. It's better than "I've wanted you always"?? hee.
*sighs*
This is as close as I could come, since I simply can't seem to think of a believable way to make Harry hot for teacher or vice versa ><;;

Ha. Maybe you could use lust potions :D :D :D

[starflowers.livejournal.com]

I think Harry and Snape are impossible to write because there is no way in hell I could ever in a million years see it happening in canon. Okay, so H/D is never gonna happen either, the circumstances for that are completely different, because... they hate each other on a different level. With Snape, it's Harry's least favourite professor. So what? I would never LUST after my least favourite professor, no matter HOW sexy I found his voice, because Harry's hatred of Malfoy is based entirely on understanding him and feeling threatened by him and hating what he stands for and having a rivlary with him in house points and Quidditch. There's active hate there. With Snape, he just doesn't LIKE him, feels oppressed by him, isn't sure he should trust him. He's just a greasy, creepy man and Harry would have just as much chance falling for Filch. Not that I don't LIKE Snape, because I think he's perfectly suited for falling in love with Lucius or Lupin. But Harry would never think of him as a sexual being without wanting to rip out his eyes. As for Snape himself, Harry is the incarnated form of the bully who turned him into the horrible man he is. He loathes him. Sees him as the bratty little boy who bullied him in school. Finds him annoying. I don't think he harbored a secret lust for James that could ever transfer itself to Harry. And even if he did have even the smallest hint of a sexual fantasy involving little students in his potions class, he would NEVER admit to it, never act on it, and that student would never know. Not Harry, or Hermione, or Draco, NONE of them, because Snape doesn't HAVE emotion or hormones, unless disgust counts as an emotion.

So Harry saw into his head and his worst memory in OotP! Who CARES if Snape has a hateful thing going to Harry's father? It's NOT GONNA HAPPEN. That is why it is the Ship of Doom and I cannot see it as ever being written believably.

However, I realize that many of these same sentiments can be applied to H/D, and also understand that I may be a wee bit biased, hehehe. So if you DO manage to find a well written Harry/Snape and wish to try to make me See The Light, do send me the link.

And I apologize for ranting in your LJ. *pats*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee!! Oh man. I don't see Harry/Snape happening either, though there's just so much of it written by slashers that it's been hard to avoid. I think I like some people's characterizations & obvious love for Snape, and I don't read Snape/Lucius 'cause I HATE Lucius & Snape/Lupin would be okay except I have this thing where adults aren't all that sexy to me so I stick with Marauder-era stuff and back then Sirius & Remus were getting it on, eheheh. Um. Though I'd not mind a Snape/Sirius/Remus Marauder triangle, with the Snape being unrequited, ehehehe. Oh yeah.

I don't think either pairing (H/D or H/S) comes off well if you analyze it and try to justify its very existence, not to people who aren't willing to suspend their disbelief and/or see it themselves in the first place. As far as me & H/S... I don't like the Harry most people write for it, but I find H/S!Snape interesting 'cause it unmans him, in a way. Also, Lolita!Harry is cute, eheheh. I can't really explain it and I barely read it, and I don't know why in the hell I tolerate it where I HATE Snape/Draco and Harry/Lucius and every other adult/adolescent pairing. I think it's got a unique dynamic where... in fanon, anyway... there's room for a unique Harry & Snape characterization that can be interesting.

In a way, I always have this sense of deep unreality while I read the fics, but something keeps me at it, I dunno what. I don't really -enjoy- it on the visceral level I enjoy H/D, but it's most definitely not an analytical "oh, this makes sense" level, either. For instance, R/Hr & S/R make perfect sense to me yet I never really read them. So it's more that there's some ineffable chemistry that one wants to -return- to there (in fanon) rather than the canonical issues. For me.

I was just sick and tired of people -ignoring- canon to such an extent in a pairing that's soooo fraught with impossibilities. It's like... the same reason I wouldn't read Sirius-isn't-really-dead fics. It's kind of pathetic, really.
And rant away, anytime, that's what -I- do. :D :D

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

Try Nym's Shattered (http://hp.pfen.net/viewstory.php?sid=13). It seems to fit all of your criteria.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

Also, try Nym's Recognition (http://hp.pfen.net/viewstory.php?sid=22). Another one that meets your criteria, I think.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

ahahah, I love your icon :D :D
Hmm. What does it say that there aren't many fics (apparently) that fit my criteria? Was my list completely unreasonable (or did it have some particularly thorny point), does most H/S suck, or is it something else? 'Cause like, there's so much of it -out- there. Is it really all about the shmoopy luurve & the voice-lust? :T

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

ahahah, I love your icon :D :D

Hee, thanks!

Hmm. What does it say that there aren't many fics (apparently) that fit my criteria?

Well, I'd say that it says more about the fact that I was running out the door when I saw your post, and didn't have time to compile a lengthy list, than anything else! :-) Also, it wasn't clear to me that you were all that serious about actually reading the stories if I invested a bunch of time finding them, so, well, I didn't try all that hard. Just noted the ones that came to mind first.

Was my list completely unreasonable?

I think that you (the generic you) could draw up any lengthy list of requirements for *any* pairing and be hard pressed to come up with a bunch of stories that meet those criteria. I could just as easily assemble a list for H/D that would filter out 99% of all H/D stories ever written. (Just saying "No Suave!Sarcastic!Draco" might elinate a fair chunk of them! ;-) In this case, your list was pretty extensive, so yeah, it would be harder to find stuff that matched up with all those criteria.

does most H/S suck, or is it something else? 'Cause like, there's so much of it -out- there. Is it really all about the shmoopy luurve & the voice-lust? :T

Since I've read a lot of HP/SS (certainly not all!), and I do write it, I would say that in my experience, just like in all things, Sturgeon's Law applies. There are some stellar examples of HP/SS fiction, just as there are some abyssmal ones. YMMV depending upon what you're looking for and what criteria you use for "good." Heh. ;-)

Like all "ships" you'll find that certain cliches are more prevalent than in others. But I think that in *all* cases when it comes to romantic pairings, if you (the generic you, again) don't at least tentatively buy into a pairing, or at least the *possibility* of a pairing--be it het or slash--and suspend your disbelief accordingly, then 99% of the fiction for that pairing won't ever convince you in a hundred million years. I mean heck, the only pairings that we all can really buy into without suspending disbelief are the canon ones, i.e. Arthur/Molly, Lucius/Narcissa, etc.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I guess it's a little-known fact(?) that I -do- read H/S, unlike a lot of H/D old-timers on LJ (the pairings seem to repel each other somehow). I have suspended my disbelief plenty of times, it's just that once I get started on a list, it's really hard to stop, heh. I just keep going... and going... and going, by nature.

The only important bits was:
- Harry doesn't suddenly like/want him;
- He doesn't obsess over Snape's voice;
- Both Snape and Harry remain basically the same;
- No gratuitous sweetness and usage of `Severus' occurs.

I think that's what all that boils down to.
I -was- serious about reading it (though I do read flippantly, as to what I read when, eventually my desperation always rises to the occasion, heh).
I -am- curious as to which point was most detrimental to me finding a lot of fic. Does Harry really always lust after his voice, for example? Does Harry always find him a sex-god? Do they always magically get over disliking each other? (I mean, in a good number of H/D fics, there's a lot more residual resentment left in, it seems to me). I both buy & don't buy into H/S. I read it, so I -must- be able to see it somewhat (unlike say, Dumbledore/Harry which is JUST WRONG, hee-- though I -have- loved Silvia's Draco/Dumbledore, so what do -I- know, except that silviakundera can sell me anything).

I myself have never actually written Suave!Draco, btw. I've always liked my characters maddened, raw and ugly :D :D :D
Um -.-

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

I have suspended my disbelief plenty of times, it's just that once I get started on a list, it's really hard to stop, heh. I just keep going... and going... and going, by nature.

I totally hear that! ::g::

Re. your truncated list...sure, there are a ton of stories that meet those criteria! (Some of them are even on ff.net. ::veg::) But seriously, yes, right off the top of my head I suggest that you take a look at stories written by Nym, by Luthien, by Telanu, by JiM, by Femme, by Tira Nog, and also by JayKay. You can find links to their pages at my recs page (http://www.squidge.org/~kali/hprecs.html).

I -am- curious as to which point was most detrimental to me finding a lot of fic.

I'd say that it was the requirement that they overcome their hostility towards one another. And, I think perhaps I interpreted the "magically" in the broadest sense, so I was thinking of stories where they never *do* get over their animosity at all and yet have sex anyway, not stories that overcome that problem via a magic potion or a spell or something (if that makes any sense).

Dumbledore/Harry which is JUST WRONG

Ooo, yeah. I've only read one story like that and wasn't left desperately jonesing for more of the pairing. ;-)

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

That's strange, since I thought I said I'd prefer it if they -didn't- just overcome their hostility. Where did I say "magically"? *confused*

I did say,
and he never entirely learns to like him
and so on. I think in most of the fics -I've- read, Harry realizes, after working with Snape or being rescued by Snape or suddenly realizing how sexy Snape is, that there's definitely More To Snape or... something. Snape is slower to change his mind but you get the feeling that's just because he never admits to anything, not that there's actual bad blood there.

Maybe I've been reading all the wrong fics? (Admittedly, most of what I do read have been porn one-shots, so I suppose there's a limited range there). Still, the sudden-lust thing doesn't make sense to me even if the resentment remains, and especially if it does, since a purely lust-based relationship doesn't make sense for Harry when it comes to Snape, since one doesn't just decide to shag one's teacher as far as I know, in real life anyway.

I read H/S smut 'cause I -like- H/S smut, which is strange 'cause I don't like thinking of Snape nekkid & I can't see either of them being really secretly harboring all this animal passion for each other, and yet I really dislike star-crossed-lovers!H/S on some "but this is INSANE" sort of level.
I like the sillier, more irreverent fics best of all. Like where Snape became a bunch of inanimate objects (Predatrix, I think), the one where Snape was a snake & Harry masturbated with him (ahahaha) and the one where Harry had an impotency problem Snape helped to cure him of.
Angst and sincere earnest fic makes me all critical and hard to please, but gimme smut & humor and I'm oh-so-easy. It's like this with any pairing, really~:)

[(Anonymous)]

maybe A Bittersweet Potion (http://www.intertexius.com/bittersweet/index.shtml)? no smut ^_^ and vry cute/different ^_^
A Bittersweet Potion is kinda preslash, I think, but the next story Procul His (http://www.intertexius.com/proculhis/index.shtml) has just been updated *minicrazedfangirlsquee*

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

It's not perfect, but resonant8's The Familiar (http://trickster.org/res/familiar.html) hits most of the items on your list and it's a great read anyway. <3

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

I think I read it :>
But thanks :D :D
Oh man, I shouldn't have had such a long list. It made me seem way more picky than I am, whereas I just want Greasy!Snape, Snarky-and-not-a-bottom!Harry and hopefully no soliloquy to anyone's sexiness, smooth voice or amazing bod.

I know, I reach for the stars :D :D
heee <3

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

Crimony, woman, those aren't stars, that's canon. Silly fandom, have none of you met a disgruntled, bitter middle-aged man? Oh, and for all that's holy, this fandom should know how to write a young man. Good lord. Might as well make the two pick out lace curtains, for all the bosom-heaving they do. *rants!*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*CRIES* THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!1 >:O

I WANT DISGRUNTLED, BITTER MIDDLE-AGED MAN!SNAPE.... wah.
my yearning shall forever remain unfulfilled :((

although, honestly, i've never seen that much in-character H/D either (har!) so. um. well. can't talk, dirty kitchen, and so on.
but still.
it hurts more with H/S, almost, 'cause... like.... to have harry tell snape how uber-sexy he is... he'd have to be INSANE!!...and stuff.
*siiiighs* i'm not really a canon-whore (muwahahah, indeed), it's just. -no one- acts like that, just given the basics of old-bitter-professor and resentful-rebellious-cagey-student-hero. i dunno. i should just read `a separate peace' and `dead poets society' slash instead. mmmm, school-boys.

how would a realistic teenager go about wanting a greasy bitter professor he really can't stand??
......i really don't know.
i've read all that porn, and i still don't know o_0

i guess my mother was right, and porn isn't very educational after all :D :D

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

It's been very eye-opening to me. *shifty eyes*

Man, posts like this make me want to go write a story just so I can say "SEE! *THIS* IS WHAT I WANT!" but it'd be crap, and I don't need to be responsible for copy-cat crap in the fandom, there's far too much anyway. ;)

OMG A Separate Peace slash. Did you ever see the movie? We watched it in English and I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at the blatant homosexual undertones (was that an oxymoron? Bah.) and by the end of the movie, I'd managed to convince the whole class they were Oh My God So Doing It.
*preens*

*bad influence*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

That's been my Ebil Goal all along, for people to write things because I've inspired them to greater heights of canonicity & hopefully, also pr0n :D :D
Also, you do not suck. I would tell you if you did, and until then, carry on peacefully :> Therefore, you should write. Write! Go forth and conquer! The H/S fandom shall never be the same..!..!..!!'
hee.

I -might- have seen that movie. I mostly remember reading the book awhile ago. If I did see it, it'd have been like, 10 years ago. (I AM SO OLD, WAAAAHHH).
That was before I knew about homosexual undertones, teehee.
I was like, hmmmm something's funky about these two... I WONDER WHAT >:O

heeeeeeee.
I was so naive, and yet I read so much het porn at the time. Very strange -.-

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

Hee! Oh man, we watched it like last month, after I'd dunked headfirst into the HP fandom, and oh god, so much with the laughter.

O.O Harry/Snape is the most daunting pairing ever, I swear. I mean, I'd say "But that's what makes it so great when folks get it right!" except they never do so it just kind of sits there like this big pile of beans that has the potential to be the world's best coffee: bitter and complex, with hidden flavors and many, many layers; instead it just sits there, a pile of beans, and begins to smell kind of bad after awhile and exploits migrant farmers everywhere. Okay, maybe not the migrant farmers. But maybe Snape is into that kind of thing.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Nawwww, H/S isn't any more daunting than H/D. Except, yeah it is. Except H/D hasn't really been done right either. It's a tie. I'd try to write H/S, I really would (the challenge alone!) except that, you know. Nekkid!Snape....... no. Nekkid!Draco...... YES. Nekkid!H/D Sex..... OMGYES. You know how it goes -.-

If H/S exploits migrant farmers, who does H/D exploit?? Heeee. And what is its dirty by-product?? *needs to know*

also: you are too cute!! o_0
the beans have won me over. also, the migrant farmers. (*<3333s on migrant farmer!H/S*)
i have no will to escape their smelly grasp!!
*cannot resist!*
*friends!* :>

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

Hee!

*imagines Snape in khaki pants, surveying the back forty*

Ooh. Must write that.

H/D is like deep-fried ice cream. It can be done right, where it will become a perfect, delicate dessert to be eaten very, very carefully with a shiny spoon. More often than not folks just try and make it at home, where it becomes a gooey, sticky mess that stains everything and makes your shoes stick to the kitchen floor for months afterwards and gets stuck in the stovetop burners and fills the house with acrid, possibly poisonous fumes. Also it catches fire.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*has irresistible urge for icon of some goo, or maybe just H/D & goo in some context where there's a caption of: a gooey sticky mess". heeeee.
mmmm, shiny spooooooooon.
*WIELDS SPOON*
sweetness on fire~:)) mmm yes.
*fangirl sigh*
it makes me think of `dreams of enchantment'!h/d and sitting in the ice-cream parlor drinking out of the same root beer float with two straws. heeeeeee. if you haven't read it, here (http://glassesreflect.net/hd/doenchantment.html)~:))

heeeeee. the most deep-fried-ice-creamy of all h/d-fics :D :D :D :D


*<3333333s krissy & aspen* :D :D

[tocomfortyou.livejournal.com]

HAHAHA. You should have warned me not to read that while drinking of my precious peach tea. I cannot afford to waste a drop of it on my monitor! Also, electrocution hazard. *sizzles quietly*

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I guess for me...well, there's probably any number of reasons I love H/D and don't much like H/S, but part of it is that you've got more leeway with the boys because they're boys. Like if you're thirty years old and you run into the guy you hated in high school you're probably not going to pick a fight with him the way you would have then because then you would be a bit of a loser. Or like Snape, who sees the son of the guy he hated in high school and hates him just the same. There's always the possibility that both Harry and Draco are idiots and barely know who they really are yet. And their sex can reflect that--they don't know what they're doing or what they're saying. That's why I love when Harry confronts Sirius and Remus with the Pensieve stuff and they're almost surprised this is an issue because to them it's a given that James was an ass at 15.

With Snape part of the problem for me is that okay, Snape's Harry's least favorite teacher. Not because he's rough on him but because he literally picks on him like a bully (and unlike Draco, actually). See, I think if I were Harry I would find this aspect of Snape more embarrassing than anything else. I love Snape myself as a character but his anger at Harry is pathetic. It's the part of him that keeps him from being as cool as he could be--here he is a spy, a guy who's done a lot for the order, creator of incredible Potions, man who acts competently in a crisis. Then you get him in a class with Harry and you realize Oh god, he's also a loser with no appropriate relationships because he doesn't act his age. Socially Draco is actually more mature than Snape--he hates Harry and is sometimes childishly vindictive to him, but he's got friends.

I suppose part of what seems to be necessarily in a teacher/student fic is that the student is attracted to the teacher's very adulthood. When Harry looked at Sirius he saw a cool man he wanted to be like: handsome, dashing, heroic. So far he hasn't seen anything like that in Snape, it doesn't seem. Draco, for instance, presumably sees Snape's good qualities (he's intelligent, sees things the way they are (in Draco's pov), gets to Harry in ways Draco can not) and denies or twists anything to the contrary. If I were to think of the kind of student relationship I can imagine Snape in, I think it would be with some sweet girl who wanted to help him or something...not something I'd necessarily want to read. This is not to say I don't think somebody couldn't take the feelings that *are* there in H/S and slash them. I just don't think it would be a romance.

And while I'm going on and on about teacher/student pairings, which I don't really like normally, I might as well throw out the only one that really intrigues me strange as it sounds: Draco/Lupin. Yup. Draco/Remus Lupin. Go figure.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hehehe. Yeah, um, no one has to convince me as to the sheer unlikelihood and ridiculousness of H/S. The only thing, really, is that I myself don't tend to like pairings because of their plausibility, their usefulness to the characters or their ability to stand the test of time. I don't usually feel like I can justify any romantic coupling I like based on "well, this just makes sense". In fact, the less sense it makes, the more I tend to like it.

So... I dunno. On the one hand, I'm just lucky that I think there are all these in-depth reasons to explore H/D. On the other hand, the only reason it's occurred to me was because I loved the over-the-top romance and the sex and the angst and the adolescent snark of the first fics I'd read in the fandom. Looking back on it, I dunno how canonically plausible or even related IP and Haven and Penguin's stuff and LUW's first few chapters and riddle's fics are-- so I guess what I'm saying is, it's not enough to just talk about canon all the time, in terms of wanting stuff from pairings. I just want a fanon I can believe in~:)

Which, I realize, makes it leave the realm of objective discourse entirely and goes straight into "well, does this hit my buttons", heh. I was just re-reading one of riddle's fics recently-- `harry potter and the little white pill', in particular. Riddle was one of my very first HP authors, one of those major influences that got me into the fandom. There's like very very little relationship with the "real" Harry and Draco there. But there's a vibe. I think there's just some sort of vibe that feels real to me-- like, real emotion, stuff I can believe it. Hard to quantify, but there.

I like H/S (pornily) 'cause in some fics Harry is shown as having turned the tables on Snape. He knows what he wants and he's all dom and the war has started and they're in a different situation and the cards are being played and boom. I like it because I like jaded!Harry. And all that `Severus' and voice-lust stuff seems extraneous. Whereas I wouldn't put Draco with any adult 'cause he's so subby, eheheh. And the only way an adult/adolescent relationship works for me is to have an aggressive adolescent who seduces the adult. And I dislike Snape just enough to like seeing him fall apart as Harry decides to mind-fuck him, and I don't dislike any other adult in the Potterverse in quite the same way. I mean, Lucius-- I just -hate- Lucius.

So yeah. Different evaluation approaches, I think ^^;

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yah--see, that's exactly the type of H/S that seems to use canon to me as well: Harry basically making Snape more humiliated in revenge. That gets into some definite Harry material, where he's kind of wallowing in the awfulness. Of course, it also makes him a bit more like Malfoy without his realizing it--you know, "Look at him! The great lump. I can make him crawl in the dirt. Go me!!"

What's weird with Draco/Lupin for me is that usually I agree that Draco is totally subby but when I picture that pairing I do see Lupin as the subby one. I never considering this pairing before OotP, and I think it might have something to do with Remus there. Like...he's the nice Marauder who's therefore passively mean to Snape. Doesn't stick up for him, but doesn't attack him either. I think that made me suddenly imagine a situatuion where Draco, of all people, could take him in hand, as it were. Sort of like, "Look you're a werewolf. You're a monster. You're despised. I'm a little monster myself. Stop apologizing." And of course Draco would also have reason to want to mindfuck him because he likes Harry, etc. etc. It's like, "What are you? You think you can be friends with bullies and still be a nice guy? Give it up!" Something like that. I just suddenly saw all this potential weirdness in Remus after OotP I never did before. (Perhaps NA helped me along too.) Anyway, even though I usually always see Draco as the one being seduced, this was suddenly one adult I could picture Draco seducing--and thus my D/R fettish was born.:-)

[darklites.livejournal.com]

I was on a big S/H kick earlier this year when I read some and found that I found some of its dynamics really interesting. So read a lot of it. Then OotP happened, and the thought of it now almost sickens me for some reason. It just feels so canned, forced after that book that I completely cannot buy it any more. Most S/H stories put the two together when Harry begins to respect him, or say, has been in some big Voldemort situation and is emotionally cut off from everyone else and what do you know? Snape is the only one who can understand. Kinda contrived, but it did work. I just can't see that happening any more, I can't see Harry respecting him. And let's face it, Snape is actually really pathetic. He is not cool, he flips out at the littlest things one should have got over about one's past... and also. People always go on about how passionate their hate is, but after book five I've come to realise that it ... isn't.

Snape only hates Harry because he hated James. He doesn't even hate Harry for Harry, you know? He hates Harry almost by default, and that doesn't work that well for me in a love/hate way. That makes it a little boring for me. And Post OotP a lot of people have mentioned stuff about angry angsty sex but it just doesn't work for me when it comes to Snape. I mean, dude, who'd want to have angry angsty sex with SNAPE??? He is gross. No matter what fandom says, he is. He has oily hair (I mean let's get real here and honest on a politically incorrect level... have you seen someone on the streets with oily hair where it's stuck in clumps and has dandruff all over it? Would you want to do that?! That's the reality of oily hair, and it ain't pretty.) and is almost blue from lack of sun, man. Whenever I read about him having an 'actually toned stomach' or when his hair is actually kinda silky to the touch I want to spork myself. He is not sexually appealling at all, unless you perhaps admired him for other qualities. And Harry doesn't do this. And in any case Harry's not a sexual deviant - he's pretty much dead sexually at this point and any angry sexin' won't be about sex but just anger. But for something like that to happen, I don't know. I just can't see Harry in the right frame of mind for this to happen with Snape. What would be the catalyst?

I feel kind of sad actually, because I enjoyed some of the S/H I read but really find that I can't read it any more. There's so much of it around too, I feel like I may be missing out now. Also another reason might be that I find S/H shippers have a huge love for Snape I just can't work myself up to. I appreciate him as a character but don't really have that much love for him. Or that much emotional connection. I enjoyed some of their portrayals of him, but I suppose it has become not something I seek out on a regular basis.

(I looked a bit at your post where you said why expand yourself really? Just read what works for you. And yeah lately I'm thinking, why I am I forcing myself to read all these different things to be more open-minded really? I should only do so if I enjoy it - and I sometimes do - because this is a leisure activity. I may as well read what makes me happy. And I guess H/D makes me happy. It's a ship of Ideals, not terribly realistic, but something in it is almost inspiring, which I suppose is reason enough to love it. It's like that for any ship I guess. And this whole comment was a lot of self-indulgent blabbing heheheh. Just wanted to rant and your post gave me a great place to do it in, ha. Thanks. ;) )

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hee! I love your icon. Also, I've never disagreed with you yet, I hope you know this :D :D
You should rant at me more, so that I can test my theory :D :D :D
Maybe there's just something about really really -really- digging H/D that says something deep and meaningful about our outlooks on the universe. Or something. *laughs*

Anyway, yeah, I've never been able to buy Snape's sexiness, though he intrigues me as a character. Though OoTP didn't change my ability to read it, since I never shipped it, and that wasn't why I'd read it. It's just. Well. Hot :D Even though Snape isn't, and I don't -see- it, there's Seeker & Predatrix and Ailei and just-- a lot of good smut. Hee. I realize that doesn't explain it completely, since I'm sure there's good smut in Sirius/Snape or Lupin/Snape or Lucius/Snape but I can't bear to read all those. I dunno, I like the way it plays with Harry's mind more than anything, I guess. And the way it's wrong and twisted, like Christina Aguilera going brunette. I dunno. There's just something.

I actually like Snape in theory, but yeah, he is kind of pathetic. He's one step short of a cool character, though you were spot-on with the Byronic hero bit, and I think Snape is usually perfected as an archetype by maybe combining him with bits of either Sirius or Remus. They're all so fragmented alone. And yet I can't ship Remus with him 'cause I don't think they -give- each other anything I can sense intuitively. I just don't have any sort of feel for it.

Well, I mean, I think it says someone in OoTP that Harry now hated him more than any human being on the planet...? Or something...? It made a point of Harry hating him, but it wasn't in an inspiring way like when he beat him Draco. On the other hand, he was just taking out his general frustrations on Draco. I don't think Harry's sexless. Well, my Harry. I think he needs a switch, something to jolt him, and then he'd just fuck 24/7, though here I'm being inspired by ` After the Flood', but I can definitely see it. Oh Harry <3333333333333

You realize there are all these people who think Draco only hates Harry 'cause he's the "Boy Who Lived" and because he's the only one who'd rejected him, not 'cause he's Harry, too, right? Although it's much more obvious with Snape. I don't tend to base my attraction to pairings on realism and canonicity, as I told sistermagpie, so I mean... Snape and Harry are still the same people (mostly) post-OoTP, so S/H is still vaguely possible, but it all depends on whether the dynamic is vivid to you to start with.

And eh, it's not really something I'm happy with either, but all-H/D-all-the-time drives even -me- insane. It makes me appreciate H/D more, sometimes. I think the people who like it bring significantly different aesthetics to it, too. Like, I think the Snape worship is extreme, and also there's a lack of real understanding of Harry oftentimes, I feel. Then again, I don't think Draco's "oh so cool" either. I might think Harry's "oh so cool", but mostly I just adore him ~:)

I love being a hopeless romantic, btw :D :D :D