~~ the battery's leaking...
Sep. 2nd, 2003 06:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkai know i've ranted quite a bit about my sore spot about characters made too perfect or too pretty (read: bland and boring) in fanfic, but just today it occurred to me that perhaps it would be impossible to convince me that a character's really "in character" unless they're portrayed as significantly unsympathetic. now, this isn't the same thing as the people who say stories should be written with the assumption that snape/lucius/draco is a bastard or ugly or a miserable awful wanker or what have you, especially after ootp, where harry has become significantly more unsympathetic to many readers. his actions and reactions aren't clear-cut: you can read them in widely different lights. this ambiguity is, i think, the hallmark of a "realistic" character, and i would say it would have to be preserved to keep them "real" in fanfiction.
i think everyone's emotions and actions can be taken in many ways, and waaayyy too often, authors forego any illustration of this basic truth to make characters who're merely representations of an obvious agenda. you can sort of -tell- that this character is loveable in spite of all their faults (if faults do exist), or conversely, that -this- is a character the author themselves has no regard for and thinks is a bastard.
this is funny, almost, because i used to have the same problem with the hp books themselves-- it was too clear who the bad guys and the good guys were, initially. i think (with the exception of draco, and even there you can have multiple readings as is blatantly obvious) this clear-cut characterization has undermined itself as the books progressed. there are now proponents and detractors of probably every single character in the books, with textual evidence and personal passion to back them up (ie, plenty of people hate hermione and ron and harry and snape-- well, usually not all at once). this is as it should be.
i was thinking of this especially in relation to maya's `underwater light', which is semi-known for having a rather in-character draco. and anyone who knows me a little knows i -adore- maya's writing, so this isn't a dig in any way, but. i can easily see how while ul!draco has flaws and idiosyncracies and is obviously fallible, there isn't a lot of room for disliking him, and that in itself brings him away from canon.
this isn't to say that you can't write loveable characters.... it's just, the fuller the characterization effort involved, the more they come alive and escape the writer's grasp and start doing stupid things there are no excuses for, just like real people. i don't know. harry, for instance, is prone to snap judgemens, is rash, insensitive, sometimes violent, holds grudges, self-centered and overly protective at the same time, has little patience for people, has severe anger issues, etc. you can still write a harry who's a woobie, but he'd have to show signs of being one -in spite- of being a prick. and not in a loveable way; more in sort of "gahd, that -imbecile-" sort of way.
draco and other "bad guy" characters from the books have an even heavier burden to carry, obviously. i think even if you show how harry never had the full picture on them, you'd still have to avoid excusing them or saying when they grow up or are put in a better environment, they'd become totally sympathetic. unpleasant people exist. they were unpleasant children, and then they're unpleasant adults. they love people too, they have weaknesses and good qualities like everyone else-- but they're not the same as truly kind and emotionally responsive people. it's just not that simple. you can say the character is -deeper- than they appear, and that they -change-, but their darkness and unpleasantness changes to keep up.
in draco's case, you'd have to allow the reader to see the tail-ends or the roots or at least -flashes- of that jealousy, obsessiveness, avoidance, empty bluster, inadequacy when compared to harry or hermione, whatever.
now i realize this isn't a new concept, but the way people usually say it is: you should make the bad characters stay bad. and what does that mean? that the "good" characters should stay good? that's just simplistic and not conducive to deep characterization.
what i think you should try to do if your goal is an in-character draco, for instance, is combine the draco people hate and the draco people love into one person, because that would come closest to the "original". this seems like it's a contradictory thing, and it is, but i think the truth ultimately isn't a reducible thing. it's in this interplay of contradictory responses and within the basic unfathomability of our hearts that the sense of realness comes through in fictional characters. when they are truly unfathomable-- that is when they're in-character. when they are both sympathetic and unsympathetic at the same time. when they are awful and beautiful and sad and pathetic and inspiring: real. and at that point, yes, you do depart from canon and its rather limited view on draco, but you've also created fanon in the best possible way, by expanding without focusing exclusively on any one particular reading of the original character.
is this possible? i don't even know. but it's an ideal.
what comes to mind most prominently is the world of comics. basically, every new writer of a character in a on-going comic is writing fanfic. so when john ney reiber came along and wrote neil gaiman's tim, he was doing the same thing we're all doing. and he did a wonderful job at transforming tim and yet keeping him completely tied to his past and all the ways people have perceived him along way, because the effects of been seen in a certain way by someone that matters never truly fade. so yeah. tim was always loveable-- but he was also a complete dork. and i mean-- my -god-, is the boy a moron. heh. not in a small way, either. and oh, he pays for it and he's not forgiven and his world falls apart but it's not the end of the story. gah. one day, i want to be a fifth as good.
~~
so. i still read quite a bit of h/d fic (much much more than anything else... *shame*), but i haven't been reccing because... well.. when you do something for a year... it gets old. so. but! maybe i can once again think of it as linking. yeah that's the ticket.
`lather, rinse, repeat' by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
monthofsundays cracked me up immediately, so i decided to rec it (and `better than perfect' which is similarly cute but is actually a deeper, more complex story-- i'm much, much more predisposed to even humorous fics about dorky, wacky-looking deranged characters than smooth sexy ones-- i dunno-- it's just a thing, so a fic about goofy-dork-and-malfoy-knows-it!harry is more my thing than a fic about charming!harry, even though he's actually a bit of both). also, `better than perfect' actually has harry -understand- malfoy's motivations and see through his jealousy and drive to be better, and see the threads between them in a believable, not preachy manner, which is a very, very rare thing. my own versions of introspective/insightful!harry always right false to me, so i'm always delighted to find someone who could have harry retain his natural sort of intelligence and then apply it to malfoy somehow. i think that understanding is really the true background strength of all love, and harry and draco need it more than a lot of other people. that's probably why i'm so hung up on h&d friendship-- if that's not there, then the relationship is basically null.
overall, i think `human' is my favorite ofmonthofsundays' fics so far, because it's all about post-ootp harry and brutality and sexual tension and rawness and -yes-, i'm all about that, man. mmmm. as much as i'm like, "wah, friendship", secretly i'm like, "wah, TAKE HIM NOW", or rather, the sentiments and instinctual desires behind it. it -hurts- and it -bruises- and it's not fluffy, it's -visceral-, intense, frightening, irresistible. they can never escape each other or this part of them. the animal self. mmmr. that's the underlying pull of h/d to me.
now, i also liked `all bets are off', which aja recced... but. humor is a weird thing. if something's written with spirit, i can always appreciate it, but what actually makes me giggle and what doesn't is very idiosyncratic, it seems. allegra's fic is... bubbly and dry but when it attempts dry wit and sarcasm it totally doesn't gel for me. dry wit can easily degenerate into cuteness, which makes one smile instead of laugh. a lot of people tell me my fic is "cute", which bothers me a bit because "cute" is like, funny when its facial mask has melted a little and it's all cracking around the edges. it's nice but no cigar.
i can tell that both this and `lather, rinse, repeat' are trying to continuously amuse with witty little phrasings and cute details and such. the latter seems more subtle even though laugh-out-loud humor is by nature unsubtle in a way. i think `all bets are off' is more of a straight-out parody with periods of melodrama and pseudo-angst, whereas `lather, rinse, repeat' is more a combination rather than a not-always-comfortable mixture, if that makes sense, which i like more. it's more smooth, maybe. i don't know. humor is hard to analyze~:)
both approaches have merit, and i certainly enjoy over-the-top humor and smuttiness and hijinks, but a part of me is just more amused by tongue-in-cheek drollness (i.e.: draco malfoy was having a really bad day: first his non-existent dog died and then he realized he really wanted to fuck harry bloody potter) than rambunctious mad-cap traditional comedy (i.e.: harry showed up in the sitting room in only a towel, and to his utter horror draco malfoy was there, taunting with comments about tartans) and that's just it: idiosyncratic. i think this traditional sort of situational and dialogue-based comedy might work better in theatric form, i'm not sure. `lather, rinse, repeat' seems to depend more on a certain humor built into the narrative style rather than the raging humor value of the particular jokes. this is probably more how i write, so perhaps my mind just works more on tone than substance, though that seems like an over-generalization. oh well.
~~
having seen a rec list with a lot of angst and death-fics on it, the nature of my ongoing issue with a lot of them struck me. i'm particularly thinking ofolympia_m's, amalin's and cinnamon's fics, as compared to maybe weatherby's `contrition' and maya's `dark side of light', which are probably the only fics i can think of that significantly break form, mostly because their emotionality could almost be called subtextual. as well as aja's `every second', which i feel is honest and raw and -real-, because it doesn't flich but neither does it dwell on either the pain or the ecstasy of death-- it merely transcribes the emotional maelstrom in no uncertain terms.
interestingly, i think what i would consider the most `realistic' and honest death-fics have been the rash of post-ootp sirius fics. those have been absolutely brilliant, particularly ivy's and fyredancer's and amalin's and bow's. i think the bleakness of ootp has really inspired some brilliant interpretations.
obviously, i love all the fics mentioned, so. er. yeah. salut. this isn't con-crit, just me thinking along these lines.
so many fanfics centered on death or mortality treat it in one of two ways: the awareness of death is a constant influence, souring everything, throwing the characters in a sort of nostalgic loop, drowning in regret and desire and simmering in the bitterness of inevitability and decay. this is more of a mood thing-- death is a presence like sunlight, and there is always this sense of premonition. death is like a dark element hidden in the sunlight itself-- constant and aching and without beginning or end. things degenerate, but the rot has been there from the beginning. life itself is a form of death, and death merely a fulfillment of one's twilight destiny. throughout one's life, one attempts to deal with it, but is unable to due to one's basic weakness as a human being and one's blood-ties to the beloved one, who is always in danger of slipping through one's fingers.
another theme i see is naturally the all-out angst-fic approach, where death is the ultimate horror and it destroys the sanity of the survivor completely. it's all greek wailing and thumping one's head against the floor and tearing out one's hair and ashes and suicide. the whole connection of suicide to another character's death bothers me. not because it's necessarily out-of-character or something, but because of the sheer frequency of this response. this isn't how the majority of people react to the death of a loved one. usually there's a lot more anger and numbness and bitterness and then more anger and more numbness and denial. the inability to deal doesn't directly lead to an attempt on one's own life. people's minds usually shut down completely before that happens: therefore you'd have drinking and beating up other people you love (or don't), self-destructive behavior, yes-- but not -suicide- except by inaction, mostly.
in my opinion, suicide is an entirely different issue with different causes and motivations than one's mourning and grief. also, every character mourns differently, based on their personality type, another thing mostly overlooked in the common drive to have as much angst and drama as possible.
a less common thing is to have the character get -over- the death in some sort of really short period of time with the help of love. sometimes it happens with a single kiss (scary, isn't it), sometimes with the realization that you really love this other person more, and sometimes because you love the dearly departed and that love is giving you the will to live. all of which is possible-- after a long, long time spent being a total wreck. and not in the suicidal way, necessarily. it's not exciting. mourning is bleak and awful and like the grind of bone on bone, like the screech of nails on blackboards. it's hell, but it's not like breaking up and never seeing someone again, and it's not like having your pet goldfish die. if it's someone you love deeply, someone who had been necessary for your happiness, then the death is a lot like the death of one's own self-- there is no need for suicide, because one's heart just shrivels. suicide is extraneous. pain is everywhere, but people survive it, slowly, slowly, like dragging heavy boots through thick mud. on and on and it only ever lightens slightly, and so on until you die.
death is not inspiring or beautiful, but it's also not something that one can only deal with by screaming and dying yourself. it's the stone at the back of your throat, and you keep swallowing and breathing, but it always remains inside you. something always changes, but that part of you kind of dies along with the person, and yet it doesn't-- it fossilizes. i think it's like a part of you never changes.
you survive it but you -don't- survive. you don't use it to become a better person. it never gets better, and you never really learn to accept it-- it always hurts, in a day-to-day way, and you keep living and even if you're not stuck inside it, it's stuck inside you. even if you move past it, it never moves past you. death isn't something you grow past.
but no, i don't know what i want to change about the way people write about it. maybe it's impossible to truly imagine the abyss, the way you feel when you stare at your own death and don't blink and don't look away. there's a reason i almost never write about this stuff, obviously, heh.
i think everyone's emotions and actions can be taken in many ways, and waaayyy too often, authors forego any illustration of this basic truth to make characters who're merely representations of an obvious agenda. you can sort of -tell- that this character is loveable in spite of all their faults (if faults do exist), or conversely, that -this- is a character the author themselves has no regard for and thinks is a bastard.
this is funny, almost, because i used to have the same problem with the hp books themselves-- it was too clear who the bad guys and the good guys were, initially. i think (with the exception of draco, and even there you can have multiple readings as is blatantly obvious) this clear-cut characterization has undermined itself as the books progressed. there are now proponents and detractors of probably every single character in the books, with textual evidence and personal passion to back them up (ie, plenty of people hate hermione and ron and harry and snape-- well, usually not all at once). this is as it should be.
i was thinking of this especially in relation to maya's `underwater light', which is semi-known for having a rather in-character draco. and anyone who knows me a little knows i -adore- maya's writing, so this isn't a dig in any way, but. i can easily see how while ul!draco has flaws and idiosyncracies and is obviously fallible, there isn't a lot of room for disliking him, and that in itself brings him away from canon.
this isn't to say that you can't write loveable characters.... it's just, the fuller the characterization effort involved, the more they come alive and escape the writer's grasp and start doing stupid things there are no excuses for, just like real people. i don't know. harry, for instance, is prone to snap judgemens, is rash, insensitive, sometimes violent, holds grudges, self-centered and overly protective at the same time, has little patience for people, has severe anger issues, etc. you can still write a harry who's a woobie, but he'd have to show signs of being one -in spite- of being a prick. and not in a loveable way; more in sort of "gahd, that -imbecile-" sort of way.
draco and other "bad guy" characters from the books have an even heavier burden to carry, obviously. i think even if you show how harry never had the full picture on them, you'd still have to avoid excusing them or saying when they grow up or are put in a better environment, they'd become totally sympathetic. unpleasant people exist. they were unpleasant children, and then they're unpleasant adults. they love people too, they have weaknesses and good qualities like everyone else-- but they're not the same as truly kind and emotionally responsive people. it's just not that simple. you can say the character is -deeper- than they appear, and that they -change-, but their darkness and unpleasantness changes to keep up.
in draco's case, you'd have to allow the reader to see the tail-ends or the roots or at least -flashes- of that jealousy, obsessiveness, avoidance, empty bluster, inadequacy when compared to harry or hermione, whatever.
now i realize this isn't a new concept, but the way people usually say it is: you should make the bad characters stay bad. and what does that mean? that the "good" characters should stay good? that's just simplistic and not conducive to deep characterization.
what i think you should try to do if your goal is an in-character draco, for instance, is combine the draco people hate and the draco people love into one person, because that would come closest to the "original". this seems like it's a contradictory thing, and it is, but i think the truth ultimately isn't a reducible thing. it's in this interplay of contradictory responses and within the basic unfathomability of our hearts that the sense of realness comes through in fictional characters. when they are truly unfathomable-- that is when they're in-character. when they are both sympathetic and unsympathetic at the same time. when they are awful and beautiful and sad and pathetic and inspiring: real. and at that point, yes, you do depart from canon and its rather limited view on draco, but you've also created fanon in the best possible way, by expanding without focusing exclusively on any one particular reading of the original character.
is this possible? i don't even know. but it's an ideal.
what comes to mind most prominently is the world of comics. basically, every new writer of a character in a on-going comic is writing fanfic. so when john ney reiber came along and wrote neil gaiman's tim, he was doing the same thing we're all doing. and he did a wonderful job at transforming tim and yet keeping him completely tied to his past and all the ways people have perceived him along way, because the effects of been seen in a certain way by someone that matters never truly fade. so yeah. tim was always loveable-- but he was also a complete dork. and i mean-- my -god-, is the boy a moron. heh. not in a small way, either. and oh, he pays for it and he's not forgiven and his world falls apart but it's not the end of the story. gah. one day, i want to be a fifth as good.
~~
so. i still read quite a bit of h/d fic (much much more than anything else... *shame*), but i haven't been reccing because... well.. when you do something for a year... it gets old. so. but! maybe i can once again think of it as linking. yeah that's the ticket.
`lather, rinse, repeat' by
monthofsundays cracked me up immediately, so i decided to rec it (and `better than perfect' which is similarly cute but is actually a deeper, more complex story-- i'm much, much more predisposed to even humorous fics about dorky, wacky-looking deranged characters than smooth sexy ones-- i dunno-- it's just a thing, so a fic about goofy-dork-and-malfoy-knows-it!harry is more my thing than a fic about charming!harry, even though he's actually a bit of both). also, `better than perfect' actually has harry -understand- malfoy's motivations and see through his jealousy and drive to be better, and see the threads between them in a believable, not preachy manner, which is a very, very rare thing. my own versions of introspective/insightful!harry always right false to me, so i'm always delighted to find someone who could have harry retain his natural sort of intelligence and then apply it to malfoy somehow. i think that understanding is really the true background strength of all love, and harry and draco need it more than a lot of other people. that's probably why i'm so hung up on h&d friendship-- if that's not there, then the relationship is basically null.overall, i think `human' is my favorite of
monthofsundays' fics so far, because it's all about post-ootp harry and brutality and sexual tension and rawness and -yes-, i'm all about that, man. mmmm. as much as i'm like, "wah, friendship", secretly i'm like, "wah, TAKE HIM NOW", or rather, the sentiments and instinctual desires behind it. it -hurts- and it -bruises- and it's not fluffy, it's -visceral-, intense, frightening, irresistible. they can never escape each other or this part of them. the animal self. mmmr. that's the underlying pull of h/d to me.now, i also liked `all bets are off', which aja recced... but. humor is a weird thing. if something's written with spirit, i can always appreciate it, but what actually makes me giggle and what doesn't is very idiosyncratic, it seems. allegra's fic is... bubbly and dry but when it attempts dry wit and sarcasm it totally doesn't gel for me. dry wit can easily degenerate into cuteness, which makes one smile instead of laugh. a lot of people tell me my fic is "cute", which bothers me a bit because "cute" is like, funny when its facial mask has melted a little and it's all cracking around the edges. it's nice but no cigar.
i can tell that both this and `lather, rinse, repeat' are trying to continuously amuse with witty little phrasings and cute details and such. the latter seems more subtle even though laugh-out-loud humor is by nature unsubtle in a way. i think `all bets are off' is more of a straight-out parody with periods of melodrama and pseudo-angst, whereas `lather, rinse, repeat' is more a combination rather than a not-always-comfortable mixture, if that makes sense, which i like more. it's more smooth, maybe. i don't know. humor is hard to analyze~:)
both approaches have merit, and i certainly enjoy over-the-top humor and smuttiness and hijinks, but a part of me is just more amused by tongue-in-cheek drollness (i.e.: draco malfoy was having a really bad day: first his non-existent dog died and then he realized he really wanted to fuck harry bloody potter) than rambunctious mad-cap traditional comedy (i.e.: harry showed up in the sitting room in only a towel, and to his utter horror draco malfoy was there, taunting with comments about tartans) and that's just it: idiosyncratic. i think this traditional sort of situational and dialogue-based comedy might work better in theatric form, i'm not sure. `lather, rinse, repeat' seems to depend more on a certain humor built into the narrative style rather than the raging humor value of the particular jokes. this is probably more how i write, so perhaps my mind just works more on tone than substance, though that seems like an over-generalization. oh well.
~~
having seen a rec list with a lot of angst and death-fics on it, the nature of my ongoing issue with a lot of them struck me. i'm particularly thinking of
olympia_m's, amalin's and cinnamon's fics, as compared to maybe weatherby's `contrition' and maya's `dark side of light', which are probably the only fics i can think of that significantly break form, mostly because their emotionality could almost be called subtextual. as well as aja's `every second', which i feel is honest and raw and -real-, because it doesn't flich but neither does it dwell on either the pain or the ecstasy of death-- it merely transcribes the emotional maelstrom in no uncertain terms.interestingly, i think what i would consider the most `realistic' and honest death-fics have been the rash of post-ootp sirius fics. those have been absolutely brilliant, particularly ivy's and fyredancer's and amalin's and bow's. i think the bleakness of ootp has really inspired some brilliant interpretations.
obviously, i love all the fics mentioned, so. er. yeah. salut. this isn't con-crit, just me thinking along these lines.
so many fanfics centered on death or mortality treat it in one of two ways: the awareness of death is a constant influence, souring everything, throwing the characters in a sort of nostalgic loop, drowning in regret and desire and simmering in the bitterness of inevitability and decay. this is more of a mood thing-- death is a presence like sunlight, and there is always this sense of premonition. death is like a dark element hidden in the sunlight itself-- constant and aching and without beginning or end. things degenerate, but the rot has been there from the beginning. life itself is a form of death, and death merely a fulfillment of one's twilight destiny. throughout one's life, one attempts to deal with it, but is unable to due to one's basic weakness as a human being and one's blood-ties to the beloved one, who is always in danger of slipping through one's fingers.
another theme i see is naturally the all-out angst-fic approach, where death is the ultimate horror and it destroys the sanity of the survivor completely. it's all greek wailing and thumping one's head against the floor and tearing out one's hair and ashes and suicide. the whole connection of suicide to another character's death bothers me. not because it's necessarily out-of-character or something, but because of the sheer frequency of this response. this isn't how the majority of people react to the death of a loved one. usually there's a lot more anger and numbness and bitterness and then more anger and more numbness and denial. the inability to deal doesn't directly lead to an attempt on one's own life. people's minds usually shut down completely before that happens: therefore you'd have drinking and beating up other people you love (or don't), self-destructive behavior, yes-- but not -suicide- except by inaction, mostly.
in my opinion, suicide is an entirely different issue with different causes and motivations than one's mourning and grief. also, every character mourns differently, based on their personality type, another thing mostly overlooked in the common drive to have as much angst and drama as possible.
a less common thing is to have the character get -over- the death in some sort of really short period of time with the help of love. sometimes it happens with a single kiss (scary, isn't it), sometimes with the realization that you really love this other person more, and sometimes because you love the dearly departed and that love is giving you the will to live. all of which is possible-- after a long, long time spent being a total wreck. and not in the suicidal way, necessarily. it's not exciting. mourning is bleak and awful and like the grind of bone on bone, like the screech of nails on blackboards. it's hell, but it's not like breaking up and never seeing someone again, and it's not like having your pet goldfish die. if it's someone you love deeply, someone who had been necessary for your happiness, then the death is a lot like the death of one's own self-- there is no need for suicide, because one's heart just shrivels. suicide is extraneous. pain is everywhere, but people survive it, slowly, slowly, like dragging heavy boots through thick mud. on and on and it only ever lightens slightly, and so on until you die.
death is not inspiring or beautiful, but it's also not something that one can only deal with by screaming and dying yourself. it's the stone at the back of your throat, and you keep swallowing and breathing, but it always remains inside you. something always changes, but that part of you kind of dies along with the person, and yet it doesn't-- it fossilizes. i think it's like a part of you never changes.
you survive it but you -don't- survive. you don't use it to become a better person. it never gets better, and you never really learn to accept it-- it always hurts, in a day-to-day way, and you keep living and even if you're not stuck inside it, it's stuck inside you. even if you move past it, it never moves past you. death isn't something you grow past.
but no, i don't know what i want to change about the way people write about it. maybe it's impossible to truly imagine the abyss, the way you feel when you stare at your own death and don't blink and don't look away. there's a reason i almost never write about this stuff, obviously, heh.
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Date: 2003-09-03 05:21 pm (UTC)"writing for children" is a stupid mindset. andersen didn't write "for children", and neither did lingren or carroll. children love them and they loved children, but their works are deep and as full of breadth as any other example of literature, and oftentimes much, much moreso. children's literature is more full of metaphor and fantasy, but the fantasy itself allows for greater flights of fancy, more paints to use on the canvas, more situations to explore, not less. fantasy is my favorite genre, of course, so of course i think it's the greatest :D :D
the sort of stupid modern children's lit you're comparing jkr to isn't worth beans. it's stupid, stupid, stupid. don't compare something you like to stupid things, it's unfair~:)
i'd rather say jkr is almost as good as lewis than say she's much better than author X who wrote about timmy's day at the beach.
as far as a reason for behavior-- well, of course, naturally. truth be told, that's not what most fanfic writers actually -do-, ideal or not. they usually -explain away- his behavior (often perfunctorily) or change it retroactively or with some stupid plot-device rather than -explain- anything. mostly because most people's insight into human nature is close to zero :D :D
ahhaah. *WIELDS EVIL CRITIC'S STAMP OF DOOOOOOOOM*
*sings the suck-suck-you-all-suck-we-all-suck song*
well, we do. compared to the "real writers", most of us... well... do, especially since there is no completed significant h/d wip other than olympia's, amalin's, saber's, sadie's or rhysenn's to even -talk- about (well, there might be a couple of others i'm missing). none of these explain draco. NONE.
it's a great ideal of course.
i actually don't know the "why" of draco anymore than the next person.
do you? i haven't seen anyone who did. just a bunch of conjectures everyone disagrees on. no really really great analysis of why he's not-so-bad that is both canonically-based and seguing into h/d. all of it basically says, he could be okay IF this-and-that catalyst and/or great life-changing event happened. what this event or series of events should be, people have varying accounts of, and no one has actually written it -out- for me to ponder without descending into cliche and rampant use of plot-devices as well as ooc-ness on harry's side (oh draco, WOW, you're not so bad, LET ME SNOG YOU).
to hell with that. harry wouldn't forgive and forget so easily, or maybe at all. i think they'd -never- really "get over it". i think they'll -always- mistrust each other. realism! realism ho! muwahaha, etc.
neither would harry fuck draco just out of the blue (I AM SO ANGRY AND YOU MAKE ME EVEN MORE ANGRY, MALFOY or, alternatively, OMG, I NEVER NOTICED HOW HOT YOU ARE OR HOW GAY I AM, MALFOY), without thus seriously screwing up any future healthy relationship. olympia m wrote unhealthy!h/d in a really stellar longfic series, and so i recommend that, but. her draco is pretty ooc, as well as her harry~:)
what am i saying? i'm a bitter, bitter h/d-er. ahahaha.
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Date: 2003-09-03 06:53 pm (UTC)I have about fifty voices in my head that are talking right now, telling me what I think about children's literature. And I have read, er, about half, maybe more, of what you referred to in the pre-1950's area, and I see exactly what you mean. They are all wonderfully provocative stories - I have a special fondness for LOTR and the Chronicles.
I am stubbornly sticking to an odd sort of point, though. I think I may have a point because it seems different today than it was then, because those authors didn't write to an audience at all. Yes, they knew that they were writing children's lit/allegories that could be read by children, but they didn't have what we have around the Harry Potter books- this whole swarm of fans, the huge publicity, the merchandising, for gods' sake, and maybe I'm imagining the pressure on JKR? But I think that she has these sort of guidelines that she pretty much has to stick to if she doesn't want to be widely shunned, (Which is awful! Society today is awful, the way that we are restricting what she can write and be accepted for! Well, not us, speecifically... *g*) and she's already testing the borders, which I approve of. But if she would go somewhere completely unexpected, there would be all of these huge repercussions, and I just can't imagine...
And I know what you mean about the dinky children's lit. I too like Tanith Lee and DWJ and how I love the His Dark Materials trilogy! But I'm not so much comparing the Potters to the stupid stuff that is out there as pointing out how caged in JKR is by her producers and her managers and the public.
And back to Draco.... my favorite subject. :D Nobody knows the why of Draco, and so he is so entirely mysterious. His actions as seen by Harry are so mask-like that people feel that he has something underneath that might be worth writing about, and from there on in it is a matter of what liberties you take with his character. Can he change? For the better? Or is it limited to giving some information about how he came to be like this, and making 'like this' a tolerable thing for Harry? Harry needs to be able to understand people. I think that one of his huge issues is that he can't see things from other peoples' perspectives very easily - so I think that H/D is sometimes a necessary thing for his character, because it involves him blurring his rigid lines of good and bad...
Whee! Rambling is fun! And I continue to feel new to the fandom, recognizing only half of what people say is the best of the best. Why do they all say something different? *grumblegrumble* I am going to be reading on your recs alone well into my next life. :D ...kidding.
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Date: 2003-09-03 08:26 pm (UTC)from everything i know of jkr, that's not true. first of all, she'd written the first two books and i think plotted out the rest (at least written the first one), before anyone knew anything about her, she was a complete nobody sitting in a scotland cafe, as the legend goes. also, she's already pissed off a hell of a lot of people (as you say, pushing boundaries) so i don't know why you think she would stop at pushing them further. i wouldn't be surprised if she killed off half the characters, including harry (she -has- promised a bloodbath). she's done lots and lots of unpopular things, particularly in characterization choices (harry in ootp, sirius in ootp, james in ootp, dumbledore in ootp, etc). i don't think you have to worry about jkr being too soft for the harsh world of children's publishing ^^;
i think she's said that if she finds that the merchandising is detracting from her message somehow, she'd stop them, and i believe she has that clause. and i don't doubt it. she has way enough money to do whatever the hell she wants already, and she was doing it -before- she had any money, too, so there's no reason to suspect her.
another person, maybe, but not jkr as far as i can tell.
as far as modern children's lit being dependent on whatever, i do think sistermagpie's post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/sistermagpie/15986.html) addressed that wonderfully~:)
i totally think that harry needs to understand people/slytherins....er.... but er.... yeah. this doesn't -excuse- any sloppiness, just gives writers a motivation~:)
but i'm much less forgiving than i used to be, and much too used to all these arguments.
it's funny, because i still talk about draco & h/d so much more than the other `old timer' people in the fandom... i mean, i've only been here little more than a year, it's not like it's 2 or 3 like for some of the people i hang around, and i'm already impatient with the "obvious" things, whereas for all i know -i'm- saying the obvious things.
wah -.-
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Date: 2003-09-04 11:49 am (UTC)And it completely doesn't excuse sloppiness - nothing excuses sloppiness. But this perhaps is my main motivation in Harry/Draco - I want the perspective on Harry's part to be more forgiving, at the same time lessening the starkness of the contrast of Harry's black and white world and opening his eyes to what horrors life really can hold. Maybe I don't know what I want, and Harry/Draco is everything, so I can write it and have everything. Or nothing. Wah. School and only a few hours of sleep makes me completely incomprehensable. :D