~~ the battery's leaking...
Sep. 2nd, 2003 06:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkai know i've ranted quite a bit about my sore spot about characters made too perfect or too pretty (read: bland and boring) in fanfic, but just today it occurred to me that perhaps it would be impossible to convince me that a character's really "in character" unless they're portrayed as significantly unsympathetic. now, this isn't the same thing as the people who say stories should be written with the assumption that snape/lucius/draco is a bastard or ugly or a miserable awful wanker or what have you, especially after ootp, where harry has become significantly more unsympathetic to many readers. his actions and reactions aren't clear-cut: you can read them in widely different lights. this ambiguity is, i think, the hallmark of a "realistic" character, and i would say it would have to be preserved to keep them "real" in fanfiction.
i think everyone's emotions and actions can be taken in many ways, and waaayyy too often, authors forego any illustration of this basic truth to make characters who're merely representations of an obvious agenda. you can sort of -tell- that this character is loveable in spite of all their faults (if faults do exist), or conversely, that -this- is a character the author themselves has no regard for and thinks is a bastard.
this is funny, almost, because i used to have the same problem with the hp books themselves-- it was too clear who the bad guys and the good guys were, initially. i think (with the exception of draco, and even there you can have multiple readings as is blatantly obvious) this clear-cut characterization has undermined itself as the books progressed. there are now proponents and detractors of probably every single character in the books, with textual evidence and personal passion to back them up (ie, plenty of people hate hermione and ron and harry and snape-- well, usually not all at once). this is as it should be.
i was thinking of this especially in relation to maya's `underwater light', which is semi-known for having a rather in-character draco. and anyone who knows me a little knows i -adore- maya's writing, so this isn't a dig in any way, but. i can easily see how while ul!draco has flaws and idiosyncracies and is obviously fallible, there isn't a lot of room for disliking him, and that in itself brings him away from canon.
this isn't to say that you can't write loveable characters.... it's just, the fuller the characterization effort involved, the more they come alive and escape the writer's grasp and start doing stupid things there are no excuses for, just like real people. i don't know. harry, for instance, is prone to snap judgemens, is rash, insensitive, sometimes violent, holds grudges, self-centered and overly protective at the same time, has little patience for people, has severe anger issues, etc. you can still write a harry who's a woobie, but he'd have to show signs of being one -in spite- of being a prick. and not in a loveable way; more in sort of "gahd, that -imbecile-" sort of way.
draco and other "bad guy" characters from the books have an even heavier burden to carry, obviously. i think even if you show how harry never had the full picture on them, you'd still have to avoid excusing them or saying when they grow up or are put in a better environment, they'd become totally sympathetic. unpleasant people exist. they were unpleasant children, and then they're unpleasant adults. they love people too, they have weaknesses and good qualities like everyone else-- but they're not the same as truly kind and emotionally responsive people. it's just not that simple. you can say the character is -deeper- than they appear, and that they -change-, but their darkness and unpleasantness changes to keep up.
in draco's case, you'd have to allow the reader to see the tail-ends or the roots or at least -flashes- of that jealousy, obsessiveness, avoidance, empty bluster, inadequacy when compared to harry or hermione, whatever.
now i realize this isn't a new concept, but the way people usually say it is: you should make the bad characters stay bad. and what does that mean? that the "good" characters should stay good? that's just simplistic and not conducive to deep characterization.
what i think you should try to do if your goal is an in-character draco, for instance, is combine the draco people hate and the draco people love into one person, because that would come closest to the "original". this seems like it's a contradictory thing, and it is, but i think the truth ultimately isn't a reducible thing. it's in this interplay of contradictory responses and within the basic unfathomability of our hearts that the sense of realness comes through in fictional characters. when they are truly unfathomable-- that is when they're in-character. when they are both sympathetic and unsympathetic at the same time. when they are awful and beautiful and sad and pathetic and inspiring: real. and at that point, yes, you do depart from canon and its rather limited view on draco, but you've also created fanon in the best possible way, by expanding without focusing exclusively on any one particular reading of the original character.
is this possible? i don't even know. but it's an ideal.
what comes to mind most prominently is the world of comics. basically, every new writer of a character in a on-going comic is writing fanfic. so when john ney reiber came along and wrote neil gaiman's tim, he was doing the same thing we're all doing. and he did a wonderful job at transforming tim and yet keeping him completely tied to his past and all the ways people have perceived him along way, because the effects of been seen in a certain way by someone that matters never truly fade. so yeah. tim was always loveable-- but he was also a complete dork. and i mean-- my -god-, is the boy a moron. heh. not in a small way, either. and oh, he pays for it and he's not forgiven and his world falls apart but it's not the end of the story. gah. one day, i want to be a fifth as good.
~~
so. i still read quite a bit of h/d fic (much much more than anything else... *shame*), but i haven't been reccing because... well.. when you do something for a year... it gets old. so. but! maybe i can once again think of it as linking. yeah that's the ticket.
`lather, rinse, repeat' by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
monthofsundays cracked me up immediately, so i decided to rec it (and `better than perfect' which is similarly cute but is actually a deeper, more complex story-- i'm much, much more predisposed to even humorous fics about dorky, wacky-looking deranged characters than smooth sexy ones-- i dunno-- it's just a thing, so a fic about goofy-dork-and-malfoy-knows-it!harry is more my thing than a fic about charming!harry, even though he's actually a bit of both). also, `better than perfect' actually has harry -understand- malfoy's motivations and see through his jealousy and drive to be better, and see the threads between them in a believable, not preachy manner, which is a very, very rare thing. my own versions of introspective/insightful!harry always right false to me, so i'm always delighted to find someone who could have harry retain his natural sort of intelligence and then apply it to malfoy somehow. i think that understanding is really the true background strength of all love, and harry and draco need it more than a lot of other people. that's probably why i'm so hung up on h&d friendship-- if that's not there, then the relationship is basically null.
overall, i think `human' is my favorite ofmonthofsundays' fics so far, because it's all about post-ootp harry and brutality and sexual tension and rawness and -yes-, i'm all about that, man. mmmm. as much as i'm like, "wah, friendship", secretly i'm like, "wah, TAKE HIM NOW", or rather, the sentiments and instinctual desires behind it. it -hurts- and it -bruises- and it's not fluffy, it's -visceral-, intense, frightening, irresistible. they can never escape each other or this part of them. the animal self. mmmr. that's the underlying pull of h/d to me.
now, i also liked `all bets are off', which aja recced... but. humor is a weird thing. if something's written with spirit, i can always appreciate it, but what actually makes me giggle and what doesn't is very idiosyncratic, it seems. allegra's fic is... bubbly and dry but when it attempts dry wit and sarcasm it totally doesn't gel for me. dry wit can easily degenerate into cuteness, which makes one smile instead of laugh. a lot of people tell me my fic is "cute", which bothers me a bit because "cute" is like, funny when its facial mask has melted a little and it's all cracking around the edges. it's nice but no cigar.
i can tell that both this and `lather, rinse, repeat' are trying to continuously amuse with witty little phrasings and cute details and such. the latter seems more subtle even though laugh-out-loud humor is by nature unsubtle in a way. i think `all bets are off' is more of a straight-out parody with periods of melodrama and pseudo-angst, whereas `lather, rinse, repeat' is more a combination rather than a not-always-comfortable mixture, if that makes sense, which i like more. it's more smooth, maybe. i don't know. humor is hard to analyze~:)
both approaches have merit, and i certainly enjoy over-the-top humor and smuttiness and hijinks, but a part of me is just more amused by tongue-in-cheek drollness (i.e.: draco malfoy was having a really bad day: first his non-existent dog died and then he realized he really wanted to fuck harry bloody potter) than rambunctious mad-cap traditional comedy (i.e.: harry showed up in the sitting room in only a towel, and to his utter horror draco malfoy was there, taunting with comments about tartans) and that's just it: idiosyncratic. i think this traditional sort of situational and dialogue-based comedy might work better in theatric form, i'm not sure. `lather, rinse, repeat' seems to depend more on a certain humor built into the narrative style rather than the raging humor value of the particular jokes. this is probably more how i write, so perhaps my mind just works more on tone than substance, though that seems like an over-generalization. oh well.
~~
having seen a rec list with a lot of angst and death-fics on it, the nature of my ongoing issue with a lot of them struck me. i'm particularly thinking ofolympia_m's, amalin's and cinnamon's fics, as compared to maybe weatherby's `contrition' and maya's `dark side of light', which are probably the only fics i can think of that significantly break form, mostly because their emotionality could almost be called subtextual. as well as aja's `every second', which i feel is honest and raw and -real-, because it doesn't flich but neither does it dwell on either the pain or the ecstasy of death-- it merely transcribes the emotional maelstrom in no uncertain terms.
interestingly, i think what i would consider the most `realistic' and honest death-fics have been the rash of post-ootp sirius fics. those have been absolutely brilliant, particularly ivy's and fyredancer's and amalin's and bow's. i think the bleakness of ootp has really inspired some brilliant interpretations.
obviously, i love all the fics mentioned, so. er. yeah. salut. this isn't con-crit, just me thinking along these lines.
so many fanfics centered on death or mortality treat it in one of two ways: the awareness of death is a constant influence, souring everything, throwing the characters in a sort of nostalgic loop, drowning in regret and desire and simmering in the bitterness of inevitability and decay. this is more of a mood thing-- death is a presence like sunlight, and there is always this sense of premonition. death is like a dark element hidden in the sunlight itself-- constant and aching and without beginning or end. things degenerate, but the rot has been there from the beginning. life itself is a form of death, and death merely a fulfillment of one's twilight destiny. throughout one's life, one attempts to deal with it, but is unable to due to one's basic weakness as a human being and one's blood-ties to the beloved one, who is always in danger of slipping through one's fingers.
another theme i see is naturally the all-out angst-fic approach, where death is the ultimate horror and it destroys the sanity of the survivor completely. it's all greek wailing and thumping one's head against the floor and tearing out one's hair and ashes and suicide. the whole connection of suicide to another character's death bothers me. not because it's necessarily out-of-character or something, but because of the sheer frequency of this response. this isn't how the majority of people react to the death of a loved one. usually there's a lot more anger and numbness and bitterness and then more anger and more numbness and denial. the inability to deal doesn't directly lead to an attempt on one's own life. people's minds usually shut down completely before that happens: therefore you'd have drinking and beating up other people you love (or don't), self-destructive behavior, yes-- but not -suicide- except by inaction, mostly.
in my opinion, suicide is an entirely different issue with different causes and motivations than one's mourning and grief. also, every character mourns differently, based on their personality type, another thing mostly overlooked in the common drive to have as much angst and drama as possible.
a less common thing is to have the character get -over- the death in some sort of really short period of time with the help of love. sometimes it happens with a single kiss (scary, isn't it), sometimes with the realization that you really love this other person more, and sometimes because you love the dearly departed and that love is giving you the will to live. all of which is possible-- after a long, long time spent being a total wreck. and not in the suicidal way, necessarily. it's not exciting. mourning is bleak and awful and like the grind of bone on bone, like the screech of nails on blackboards. it's hell, but it's not like breaking up and never seeing someone again, and it's not like having your pet goldfish die. if it's someone you love deeply, someone who had been necessary for your happiness, then the death is a lot like the death of one's own self-- there is no need for suicide, because one's heart just shrivels. suicide is extraneous. pain is everywhere, but people survive it, slowly, slowly, like dragging heavy boots through thick mud. on and on and it only ever lightens slightly, and so on until you die.
death is not inspiring or beautiful, but it's also not something that one can only deal with by screaming and dying yourself. it's the stone at the back of your throat, and you keep swallowing and breathing, but it always remains inside you. something always changes, but that part of you kind of dies along with the person, and yet it doesn't-- it fossilizes. i think it's like a part of you never changes.
you survive it but you -don't- survive. you don't use it to become a better person. it never gets better, and you never really learn to accept it-- it always hurts, in a day-to-day way, and you keep living and even if you're not stuck inside it, it's stuck inside you. even if you move past it, it never moves past you. death isn't something you grow past.
but no, i don't know what i want to change about the way people write about it. maybe it's impossible to truly imagine the abyss, the way you feel when you stare at your own death and don't blink and don't look away. there's a reason i almost never write about this stuff, obviously, heh.
i think everyone's emotions and actions can be taken in many ways, and waaayyy too often, authors forego any illustration of this basic truth to make characters who're merely representations of an obvious agenda. you can sort of -tell- that this character is loveable in spite of all their faults (if faults do exist), or conversely, that -this- is a character the author themselves has no regard for and thinks is a bastard.
this is funny, almost, because i used to have the same problem with the hp books themselves-- it was too clear who the bad guys and the good guys were, initially. i think (with the exception of draco, and even there you can have multiple readings as is blatantly obvious) this clear-cut characterization has undermined itself as the books progressed. there are now proponents and detractors of probably every single character in the books, with textual evidence and personal passion to back them up (ie, plenty of people hate hermione and ron and harry and snape-- well, usually not all at once). this is as it should be.
i was thinking of this especially in relation to maya's `underwater light', which is semi-known for having a rather in-character draco. and anyone who knows me a little knows i -adore- maya's writing, so this isn't a dig in any way, but. i can easily see how while ul!draco has flaws and idiosyncracies and is obviously fallible, there isn't a lot of room for disliking him, and that in itself brings him away from canon.
this isn't to say that you can't write loveable characters.... it's just, the fuller the characterization effort involved, the more they come alive and escape the writer's grasp and start doing stupid things there are no excuses for, just like real people. i don't know. harry, for instance, is prone to snap judgemens, is rash, insensitive, sometimes violent, holds grudges, self-centered and overly protective at the same time, has little patience for people, has severe anger issues, etc. you can still write a harry who's a woobie, but he'd have to show signs of being one -in spite- of being a prick. and not in a loveable way; more in sort of "gahd, that -imbecile-" sort of way.
draco and other "bad guy" characters from the books have an even heavier burden to carry, obviously. i think even if you show how harry never had the full picture on them, you'd still have to avoid excusing them or saying when they grow up or are put in a better environment, they'd become totally sympathetic. unpleasant people exist. they were unpleasant children, and then they're unpleasant adults. they love people too, they have weaknesses and good qualities like everyone else-- but they're not the same as truly kind and emotionally responsive people. it's just not that simple. you can say the character is -deeper- than they appear, and that they -change-, but their darkness and unpleasantness changes to keep up.
in draco's case, you'd have to allow the reader to see the tail-ends or the roots or at least -flashes- of that jealousy, obsessiveness, avoidance, empty bluster, inadequacy when compared to harry or hermione, whatever.
now i realize this isn't a new concept, but the way people usually say it is: you should make the bad characters stay bad. and what does that mean? that the "good" characters should stay good? that's just simplistic and not conducive to deep characterization.
what i think you should try to do if your goal is an in-character draco, for instance, is combine the draco people hate and the draco people love into one person, because that would come closest to the "original". this seems like it's a contradictory thing, and it is, but i think the truth ultimately isn't a reducible thing. it's in this interplay of contradictory responses and within the basic unfathomability of our hearts that the sense of realness comes through in fictional characters. when they are truly unfathomable-- that is when they're in-character. when they are both sympathetic and unsympathetic at the same time. when they are awful and beautiful and sad and pathetic and inspiring: real. and at that point, yes, you do depart from canon and its rather limited view on draco, but you've also created fanon in the best possible way, by expanding without focusing exclusively on any one particular reading of the original character.
is this possible? i don't even know. but it's an ideal.
what comes to mind most prominently is the world of comics. basically, every new writer of a character in a on-going comic is writing fanfic. so when john ney reiber came along and wrote neil gaiman's tim, he was doing the same thing we're all doing. and he did a wonderful job at transforming tim and yet keeping him completely tied to his past and all the ways people have perceived him along way, because the effects of been seen in a certain way by someone that matters never truly fade. so yeah. tim was always loveable-- but he was also a complete dork. and i mean-- my -god-, is the boy a moron. heh. not in a small way, either. and oh, he pays for it and he's not forgiven and his world falls apart but it's not the end of the story. gah. one day, i want to be a fifth as good.
~~
so. i still read quite a bit of h/d fic (much much more than anything else... *shame*), but i haven't been reccing because... well.. when you do something for a year... it gets old. so. but! maybe i can once again think of it as linking. yeah that's the ticket.
`lather, rinse, repeat' by
monthofsundays cracked me up immediately, so i decided to rec it (and `better than perfect' which is similarly cute but is actually a deeper, more complex story-- i'm much, much more predisposed to even humorous fics about dorky, wacky-looking deranged characters than smooth sexy ones-- i dunno-- it's just a thing, so a fic about goofy-dork-and-malfoy-knows-it!harry is more my thing than a fic about charming!harry, even though he's actually a bit of both). also, `better than perfect' actually has harry -understand- malfoy's motivations and see through his jealousy and drive to be better, and see the threads between them in a believable, not preachy manner, which is a very, very rare thing. my own versions of introspective/insightful!harry always right false to me, so i'm always delighted to find someone who could have harry retain his natural sort of intelligence and then apply it to malfoy somehow. i think that understanding is really the true background strength of all love, and harry and draco need it more than a lot of other people. that's probably why i'm so hung up on h&d friendship-- if that's not there, then the relationship is basically null.overall, i think `human' is my favorite of
monthofsundays' fics so far, because it's all about post-ootp harry and brutality and sexual tension and rawness and -yes-, i'm all about that, man. mmmm. as much as i'm like, "wah, friendship", secretly i'm like, "wah, TAKE HIM NOW", or rather, the sentiments and instinctual desires behind it. it -hurts- and it -bruises- and it's not fluffy, it's -visceral-, intense, frightening, irresistible. they can never escape each other or this part of them. the animal self. mmmr. that's the underlying pull of h/d to me.now, i also liked `all bets are off', which aja recced... but. humor is a weird thing. if something's written with spirit, i can always appreciate it, but what actually makes me giggle and what doesn't is very idiosyncratic, it seems. allegra's fic is... bubbly and dry but when it attempts dry wit and sarcasm it totally doesn't gel for me. dry wit can easily degenerate into cuteness, which makes one smile instead of laugh. a lot of people tell me my fic is "cute", which bothers me a bit because "cute" is like, funny when its facial mask has melted a little and it's all cracking around the edges. it's nice but no cigar.
i can tell that both this and `lather, rinse, repeat' are trying to continuously amuse with witty little phrasings and cute details and such. the latter seems more subtle even though laugh-out-loud humor is by nature unsubtle in a way. i think `all bets are off' is more of a straight-out parody with periods of melodrama and pseudo-angst, whereas `lather, rinse, repeat' is more a combination rather than a not-always-comfortable mixture, if that makes sense, which i like more. it's more smooth, maybe. i don't know. humor is hard to analyze~:)
both approaches have merit, and i certainly enjoy over-the-top humor and smuttiness and hijinks, but a part of me is just more amused by tongue-in-cheek drollness (i.e.: draco malfoy was having a really bad day: first his non-existent dog died and then he realized he really wanted to fuck harry bloody potter) than rambunctious mad-cap traditional comedy (i.e.: harry showed up in the sitting room in only a towel, and to his utter horror draco malfoy was there, taunting with comments about tartans) and that's just it: idiosyncratic. i think this traditional sort of situational and dialogue-based comedy might work better in theatric form, i'm not sure. `lather, rinse, repeat' seems to depend more on a certain humor built into the narrative style rather than the raging humor value of the particular jokes. this is probably more how i write, so perhaps my mind just works more on tone than substance, though that seems like an over-generalization. oh well.
~~
having seen a rec list with a lot of angst and death-fics on it, the nature of my ongoing issue with a lot of them struck me. i'm particularly thinking of
olympia_m's, amalin's and cinnamon's fics, as compared to maybe weatherby's `contrition' and maya's `dark side of light', which are probably the only fics i can think of that significantly break form, mostly because their emotionality could almost be called subtextual. as well as aja's `every second', which i feel is honest and raw and -real-, because it doesn't flich but neither does it dwell on either the pain or the ecstasy of death-- it merely transcribes the emotional maelstrom in no uncertain terms.interestingly, i think what i would consider the most `realistic' and honest death-fics have been the rash of post-ootp sirius fics. those have been absolutely brilliant, particularly ivy's and fyredancer's and amalin's and bow's. i think the bleakness of ootp has really inspired some brilliant interpretations.
obviously, i love all the fics mentioned, so. er. yeah. salut. this isn't con-crit, just me thinking along these lines.
so many fanfics centered on death or mortality treat it in one of two ways: the awareness of death is a constant influence, souring everything, throwing the characters in a sort of nostalgic loop, drowning in regret and desire and simmering in the bitterness of inevitability and decay. this is more of a mood thing-- death is a presence like sunlight, and there is always this sense of premonition. death is like a dark element hidden in the sunlight itself-- constant and aching and without beginning or end. things degenerate, but the rot has been there from the beginning. life itself is a form of death, and death merely a fulfillment of one's twilight destiny. throughout one's life, one attempts to deal with it, but is unable to due to one's basic weakness as a human being and one's blood-ties to the beloved one, who is always in danger of slipping through one's fingers.
another theme i see is naturally the all-out angst-fic approach, where death is the ultimate horror and it destroys the sanity of the survivor completely. it's all greek wailing and thumping one's head against the floor and tearing out one's hair and ashes and suicide. the whole connection of suicide to another character's death bothers me. not because it's necessarily out-of-character or something, but because of the sheer frequency of this response. this isn't how the majority of people react to the death of a loved one. usually there's a lot more anger and numbness and bitterness and then more anger and more numbness and denial. the inability to deal doesn't directly lead to an attempt on one's own life. people's minds usually shut down completely before that happens: therefore you'd have drinking and beating up other people you love (or don't), self-destructive behavior, yes-- but not -suicide- except by inaction, mostly.
in my opinion, suicide is an entirely different issue with different causes and motivations than one's mourning and grief. also, every character mourns differently, based on their personality type, another thing mostly overlooked in the common drive to have as much angst and drama as possible.
a less common thing is to have the character get -over- the death in some sort of really short period of time with the help of love. sometimes it happens with a single kiss (scary, isn't it), sometimes with the realization that you really love this other person more, and sometimes because you love the dearly departed and that love is giving you the will to live. all of which is possible-- after a long, long time spent being a total wreck. and not in the suicidal way, necessarily. it's not exciting. mourning is bleak and awful and like the grind of bone on bone, like the screech of nails on blackboards. it's hell, but it's not like breaking up and never seeing someone again, and it's not like having your pet goldfish die. if it's someone you love deeply, someone who had been necessary for your happiness, then the death is a lot like the death of one's own self-- there is no need for suicide, because one's heart just shrivels. suicide is extraneous. pain is everywhere, but people survive it, slowly, slowly, like dragging heavy boots through thick mud. on and on and it only ever lightens slightly, and so on until you die.
death is not inspiring or beautiful, but it's also not something that one can only deal with by screaming and dying yourself. it's the stone at the back of your throat, and you keep swallowing and breathing, but it always remains inside you. something always changes, but that part of you kind of dies along with the person, and yet it doesn't-- it fossilizes. i think it's like a part of you never changes.
you survive it but you -don't- survive. you don't use it to become a better person. it never gets better, and you never really learn to accept it-- it always hurts, in a day-to-day way, and you keep living and even if you're not stuck inside it, it's stuck inside you. even if you move past it, it never moves past you. death isn't something you grow past.
but no, i don't know what i want to change about the way people write about it. maybe it's impossible to truly imagine the abyss, the way you feel when you stare at your own death and don't blink and don't look away. there's a reason i almost never write about this stuff, obviously, heh.
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Date: 2003-09-03 08:13 am (UTC)but yeah, i remember when i was reading the book and got to the draco-watches-umbridge-about-to-cast-crucio, i was -really- upset. i don't even know why, i think it's just that i'm a ninny after all (ahahaha all talk, that's me), in that i was like, begging jkr not to have draco enjoy it if it happened. i suppose it would be all in-character and at least it would horribly destroy all the actually-good-guy!malfoy apologist people's fics, but. then again, apparently ootp didn't destroy the nice!harry people, so maybe there's no hope. but i was very relieved when she didn't say anything. because that was one of the few times i was actively thinking of fanfic, how usually, unless you have an angstfic with war and unhappiness everywhere, one has draco care if harry gets hurt as some sort of sign that they aren't totally enemies. or something. like, they -think- they're all "wah, die!" but they don't mean it. it would suck if they meant it. *laughs* which you know, malfoy probably does. of course, meaning things isn't the worst thing that could possibly happen, you can get over it. it's scary to think of liking/loving anyone you know is cruel, though (and here i am, all projecting onto harry). sigh.
i have this theory that you have to love a character in order to understand them. of course, this is well and good until you realize one simply can't love every character the same, and that the ones you don't love are going to suffer, and not in that angsty way, but in that underdeveloped fetus sort of way. that was why it's interesting for me to write dark!hermione and pansy and snape (though i haven't done much of that). i wrote narcissa & lucius once. it's a weird experience, distancing yourself that much from your writing. i mean, those characters weren't me, and yet i could imagine them. maybe all it takes is the will to imagine them -without- judging them as you yourself would. i wrote about pansy with no judgement, and even now i can't judge her as well. it's like there's this space in conceiving of human beings as a writer where there's only action and reaction, and everything is shades of necessity.
and yeah, i like the contrast between the ambiguity of draco's reaction to crucio and harry's willingness (but not -really-) to cast it himself. i find it interesting that there hasn't been a rash of fics centered on harry's darkness, but then, i don't think there are many people who can write about it sensitively.
and you know, maybe i lie, about pansy. there's probably some pansy there inside me, ehehehehe. i think most people have a part of them that's really vicious and shallow and petty and jealous and delusional. it's all a question of what you act upon, but really, there's a bunch of contradictory personality traits in most people, i think, and a good number of them are rather annoying. although if i wrote about what -i- would do in a given situation, it'd be awhile before my character actually interacted with any other and stopped hiding in their room, ahahahah~:)
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Date: 2003-09-03 07:36 pm (UTC)The Umbridge-Crucio scene is really interesting because of course Draco wouldn't do like Fanon!Draco and throw himself in front of Harry so he wouldn't get the curse (and then give him a blow job). And the idea of Harry getting crucio'd would probably sound great to him just like the idea of Snape getting crucio'd sounded nice to Harry before. Most boys would probably want to see a crucio if nothing else.
But still, the idea of Draco laughing evilly or smiling while Harry was crucio'd seems wrong to me even in canon because as obnoxious as he is he just isn't on that level of darkness and I don't think he wants to be. If Umbridge did that I feel like Draco would immediately shy away from her because she crossed a line. It seems like he'd want to get as far away from that as he did from Voldemort in the forest or Harry's disembodied head in the Shack. It just seems impossible to imagine Draco in a scene of that seriousness. That's maybe not a deep psychological revelation but it does say something about what role this character is supposed to have. In order to put Draco on that level he would have to develop one way or another. Does that make sense?
Oh, and here's a little rant I did on children's lit (http://www.livejournal.com/users/sistermagpie/15986.html) that sort of applies to things down below.
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Date: 2003-09-03 08:16 pm (UTC)i've read your children's lit rant before, and i thought it was wonderfully put :D :D
it makes me want to read your books, heheh ~:)
and i totally empathize with making the first books i read "mine". i still have all this affection for them just because i read them back then. and that quote... man. inspiring. and also, i remember reading cereal and toothpaste and everything else with equal fascination, hee. it also makes me wobbly because there's a "writing for children" course this semester but i slept through the first class so it was too late to petition. wah. and now i'm all inspired to try again. it's just really hard for me to get up by 10:05 y'know? heh. and i don't even know if i want to write for children. but i do love children's lit. and it reassures me that i like fantasy for the "right reasons", since i started reading it when i was a child, and back then i had "nothing to escape from" :D so it must be because i just like to use my imagination :D
ahahaha "because he's such an empath", that cracks me up. harry-as-empath. actually, i can see draco-as-empath. *cracks up* he is sometimes, too, ridiculous as that sounds. one -could- do it well, but not post-ootp. but like... yeah. i mean, he seems sensitive in a more outgoing way than harry. hee. harry may be an empath but he's like me, totally withdrawn about it~:)
i was totally thinking of fanon!draco during the umbridge-crucio scene. i felt ashamed, ahahah, but also rejuvenated because like, hey, this -isn't- fanon, -cooool-. that's why it surprised me that ootp read like another fanfic. i was like, dude. DUDE. what book are you -reading-?! what -fanfic- are you reading, 'cause i want some of it! *laughs*
though yeah, him laughing evilly would be off too. though i mean, he must've been having -some- emotions, he could've been laughing evilly on the inside for all we know. sigh.
It just seems impossible to imagine Draco in a scene of that seriousness.
i totally get what you're saying; that's the sense i got, too. i mean, maybe not verbalizing it exactly that way, but yes. totally like, WOW, if she DOES say something about draco right now, that would be MAJOR. that's the sense i got. and then she didn't, and i was partly relieved and partly disappointed. i mean, whatever he felt right then, i think is -vital-.
then, and when harry was beating him up, i think.
that was why i was like, dude, why is EVERYBODY focusing on the goddamn wineglass, which is bloody -obvious-, why god, -why-? except maybe the obviousness explains it.
when i read that i was like, "oh look, harry made draco have a boo-boo", heeheee.
it didn't seem major to me.
maybe that's why silvia's & maya's & cassie's draco's seem so popular and so resonant of canon!draco, because they're all at least partly comedies, and it's difficult to write drama!draco and keep him in-character?
though the last scene in ootp with draco in it (well, not the slug bit) was rather serious, though predictable. exciting, though~:)
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Date: 2003-09-03 08:54 pm (UTC)You're totally right about the "big" Draco scenes in OotP (as opposed to the wine glass, nice as it is) which are so mysterious you don't know what to do with them. We have no clue to how he reacts to anything throughout the book until that scene after Lucius is arrested--I guess that's why it's so right that the two of them should both stop and stare at each other for a second. Draco's staring at Harry not believing what he's done, Harry's probably just realizing in that second that Draco might care that Lucius is in prison! Draco just gets erased in the scene as soon as he's served his purpose. I understand on one hand that Umbridge and Harry are having a one-on-one moment there but still, Draco's there.
You know, I think you're right about Drama Draco. In canon he's a clown, there's no denying it. Even his taunting is clownish, usually including an overly loud voice or impressions or a poem or a song. Will that change now that Lucius has been taken away? It's hard to imagine him being as goofy as he seemed to be in a lot of OotP but at the same time you have to wonder who he is without that. I hate to see him reduced to trying to be tough because that's just not him. Draco being tough (except his one shining moment in GoF when he and Harry dueled in the hallway) is just shorthand for Draco being a slug. In order to keep from spending the whole of Book VI in the infirmary he'd have to do some serious developing over the summer. I hope JKR doesn't just hit the reset button by saying Lucius got out and have Draco come bopping into the train car again in September like nothing ever happened.
Now that I think about it it would be really interesting to see a story that showed Lucius dealing with Clown!Draco. I mean, how does Draco act around Lucius, beyond that scene in CoS? Does he try to make him laugh? Does he make a fool of himself without meaning to? Does Lucius just look at him and think, "That boy ain't right."
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Date: 2003-09-03 11:38 pm (UTC)especially with me immediately thinking "durendal" :D
i don't think he seemed much like a clown in the dark arts shop, exactly. maybe it's just that it's so ridiculous the way he reacts to being threatened or bested. i mean, that never brings out the best in people, i guess. though of course it's amusing to think he's a moron all the time...wah. no, see, he takes himself so seriously, he has to actually be allowed his follies by someone, he has to be positively reinforced there somewhere, or else he'd be rebelling all the time, which just seems weird. maybe it's only in potterworld that he seems skewed, and in malfoy-world he's perfectly normal. which is disturbing, but then, his father shrieks and the dark lord cackles, i'm sure, so draco's positively tame and sane for a slytherin :D :D ahahaha. *coughs*
and oh! you write dexter's novelizations?!
they have such things? wow -.-
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Date: 2003-09-04 02:37 pm (UTC)Lucius' first words to Draco in that scene are, "Touch nothing," which makes me wonder if Draco doesn't have a habit of getting into trouble in stores. Obviously he's learnt to be seen and not heard when he's with his parents in public (by GoF anyway) but I can easily imagine him at some Pureblood Country Club and he's sitting at the table with the other kids and Lucius looks over and Draco's telling one of his stories and the kids are in stitches and he's rolling his eyes and acting things out and Lucius shows displeasure later. The one thing Draco is usually able to do effectively is captivate an audience in some way but does Lucius like that?
I am very sad now, btw, that
Yes, I do write Dexter novelizations and I love them! I've done 6 of them but only 3 are out so far yet.:-)
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Date: 2003-09-04 06:20 pm (UTC)so that draco would never know when father will be like, "ahahah that's funny" and when he'd be like "YOU IMBECILE DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU?!? SHUT UP!!". i bet he takes out his frustrations on draco rather than on narcissa. no way in fucking hell is draco sexually abused, though. that is just... yergh. if you don't -need- something for an explanation, then it's just a complication :D :D
i think his father is as emotionally wackt and unbalanced as draco is-- over-the-top in some ways, really reserved in other ways. he projects and emotes but doesn't know how to connect on a one-to-one level, just like draco doesn't. like, draco & lucius both follow & have followers, but they don't seem to have true friends. i think that's because they're not like gryffindors, ahahahah.
also, i think i just made a very pointless post -.-