~~ sudden snarky fandom post. wtf?
Jul. 26th, 2003 04:03 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkathis is v. stupid but-- when people say "draco/harry" it kind of annoys me. HarryxDraco is okay, but draco/harry is not. heh. it sounds weird, doesn't it? what is draco doing there, in front of harry? what? what? hee. i think it's only used by people not in the fandom, so it's perfectly natural they say things differently, but. i think it's this sense that it's some weird, alien ship that comes over me. what is this "draco/harry" thing you keep mentioning? i think it's just... i've been in anime fandoms, lurking, like, a year ago, and this makes me think of dom!draco, who basically freaks me out, man. i don't know why he should. i think dom!draco is almost equivalent to fanon!draco, whoever -that- is. but if he's dom, he's smooth and classy and mysterious and suave, right. you can't have pathetic-dom!draco, though that would highly amuse me.
see, really, he should top from the bottom, but it's still funny to think of harry doing it ('cause obviously he would, in my little world). hee. "no, no, not THERE, malfoy, -THERE-!!" or "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO ME BEFORE I DO THE JOB MYSELF!! >:O"... it would be much better if draco was saying that. i am rather shallow about it, too.
i think it's partly that some of the self-important things people say who have no clue about the "mainstream" fandom bother me. like, there's this segment of the fandom which isn't "involved" but they kind of sit on the bleachers and comment snarkily about the goings on, feeling smug that they're not in the fray. i mean, it's okay to be snarky if you're including yourself in the put-downs, but. yah. that's not really related to the draco/harry thing, which is just me being silly, btw. i'm actually -in- the fandom and i know what goes on to some degree (at least, i'm not too confused), but i never say anything simply 'cause it doesn't tend to -involve- me.
it bothers me that people i would otherwise admire (because they seem good enough writers, mostly) feel they need to voice these things which are kind of beneath them since they are clueless. all the people saying that "they" (er... the hp lj fans) are childish and silly and need to grow up. that is human nature-- people are silly and need to grow up. we as lj hp slashers aren't any sillier than anyone else. what is this need to point fingers that people have? i can't even believe i'm typing this, but who cares, i'm not talking about anyone in particular and it's just something that i keep seeing. so many people -i- have respect for don't have much respect for others that they don't even know. what's up with that? if you -know- the person, then you're entitled to an opinion. even if you -don't-, you're entitled to an opinion-- opinions don't require entitlement. it's not that i'm disputing their right to be silly. it's just that it -is- silly, or wankworthy, and they're sitting there, wanking others.
am -i- putting myself above "them" by writing this? is this wanky? i have no clue. i'm not talking about "them", anyway. it's everyone-- everyone's wanky at one point or another, so why act smug? why is there this need for divisiveness? of course, i know why. there's simply the natural human tendency to form cliques, and the people left out of some clique tend to feel it's now fair game to be inconsiderate and "objectively" mocking. 'cause obviously, some people deserve to be mocked even if the ones mocking have no clue what they're mocking.
i do highly enjoy snark, often especially the heavily barbed snark, enjoy witty mockery, enjoy self-deprecation and not deferring to any supposed "higher powers" in fandom or elsewhere. but where's the -humor-? that's what's missing. people are genuinely seeming to get uppity and self-righteous. there's definitely this undercurrent of resentment, and why? if someone doesn't like a writer, for instance, why is that a rant-worthy subject? there are a few fics in the fandom i consider bad, having had rave reviews for no good reason. i do feel bitter than they have 450 reviews on ff.net and i have 2, but that's pure envy and i admit to that. this often comes from people who have fans in their own right. so what's up?
and even the writers i can't bear the writing of, i can see that it's -my- bias at work as much as their writing skills-- i heavily prefer certain characterizations of characters, i heavily prefer stylistically pretty writing over a more prosey style, i prefer whimsy and snark and angst and humor over earnestness and heavy-handed narration and sap. some people write earnest sap with smooth, delicate-creature-who-needs-a-hug!draco, and i hate it to bits and pieces, i really do, but that's -me- as much as them. if i don't like a characterization type, it'd take the heavy presence of something i -do- like-- snark and humor or smut, usually, to make me enjoy it. some people hate characterizations to the point where nothing else matters. that's okay. why do they then say it's all the writer's fault alone? and where does the resentment come in, the need to -rant-, the sense of righteousness?
this self-righteousness is, i think, more wanky than the honest emotional upheavals and possible over-sensitivity of the people they're wanking. i mean, where's the compassion here? where's the comraderie, the understanding that not everyone's writing is going to be created equal, and we're doing this 'cause we love the world & characters, we're all improving, we can all use constructive critique? no one is that good, good enough to feel superior, quite simply. none of you. none. of. you. and that's okay-- it's a well-known fact to those that know me at all that i extravagantly adore much your writing, so i say this with frantic admiration. some of us are brilliant, spectacularly talented, yes-- but we're none of us perfect, none of us at the top of our game, none as good as we can be, not consistently so. and this is good-- most of us aren't even over 25 yet. so naturally, this is hopefully a process of growth.
and i do feel sour that i don't get more than 15 reviews, ever, and this badly-spelled silly-fic gets 879 on ff.net-- but i understand. people want a certain type of fic, and i don't write it, and -they- do. that simple. how can someone resent a -writer- for being popular?? how can someone then hold these writers to some higher standard as if they -applied- for some sort of publically elected position and they need to deserve it, or something? why should it make these people feel so good that they're "above" all this? because they're -not-, frankly. no one's above being emotional and human and fallible. some people are just not involved, but who's really -better-? do -they- want to see how -they- act in the same situation? do they want to compare graciousness points and win or something? i mean, maybe they do, i don't know.
i don't say anything when it's within the fandom, but seeing this jeering from the utter fringes is just the last straw. there's definitely this sense that they can point and laugh because they're different, they're outside the fray and above it all and they won't get splashed no matter what. it's like we're in an arena of some sort-- look at the creatures snarl and bite and jump, aren't they funny?
and i don't mean fandom_wank at all, because they don't put themselves outside fandom (at least, in ideal, it's supposed to be kind of -self- wankery, isn't it?) mostly, it's the self-righteousness that makes me upset, the pretention like "i'm better than -these- people, grow up you plebes". that's not wanking or snark, that's complete pathetic blubbering about things you know none of the intricacies or dynamics of, like the dursleys ranting about magic.
i'm just sick of it, really. just because these people aren't -their- friends, shouldn't mean they aren't their -fellows-. we're all fellow fans, fellow livejournalers, fellow human beings if nothing else. and of course, being a fellow anything has never stopped anyone in any context, usually, but. they make me angry anyway, heh.
see, really, he should top from the bottom, but it's still funny to think of harry doing it ('cause obviously he would, in my little world). hee. "no, no, not THERE, malfoy, -THERE-!!" or "SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO ME BEFORE I DO THE JOB MYSELF!! >:O"... it would be much better if draco was saying that. i am rather shallow about it, too.
i think it's partly that some of the self-important things people say who have no clue about the "mainstream" fandom bother me. like, there's this segment of the fandom which isn't "involved" but they kind of sit on the bleachers and comment snarkily about the goings on, feeling smug that they're not in the fray. i mean, it's okay to be snarky if you're including yourself in the put-downs, but. yah. that's not really related to the draco/harry thing, which is just me being silly, btw. i'm actually -in- the fandom and i know what goes on to some degree (at least, i'm not too confused), but i never say anything simply 'cause it doesn't tend to -involve- me.
it bothers me that people i would otherwise admire (because they seem good enough writers, mostly) feel they need to voice these things which are kind of beneath them since they are clueless. all the people saying that "they" (er... the hp lj fans) are childish and silly and need to grow up. that is human nature-- people are silly and need to grow up. we as lj hp slashers aren't any sillier than anyone else. what is this need to point fingers that people have? i can't even believe i'm typing this, but who cares, i'm not talking about anyone in particular and it's just something that i keep seeing. so many people -i- have respect for don't have much respect for others that they don't even know. what's up with that? if you -know- the person, then you're entitled to an opinion. even if you -don't-, you're entitled to an opinion-- opinions don't require entitlement. it's not that i'm disputing their right to be silly. it's just that it -is- silly, or wankworthy, and they're sitting there, wanking others.
am -i- putting myself above "them" by writing this? is this wanky? i have no clue. i'm not talking about "them", anyway. it's everyone-- everyone's wanky at one point or another, so why act smug? why is there this need for divisiveness? of course, i know why. there's simply the natural human tendency to form cliques, and the people left out of some clique tend to feel it's now fair game to be inconsiderate and "objectively" mocking. 'cause obviously, some people deserve to be mocked even if the ones mocking have no clue what they're mocking.
i do highly enjoy snark, often especially the heavily barbed snark, enjoy witty mockery, enjoy self-deprecation and not deferring to any supposed "higher powers" in fandom or elsewhere. but where's the -humor-? that's what's missing. people are genuinely seeming to get uppity and self-righteous. there's definitely this undercurrent of resentment, and why? if someone doesn't like a writer, for instance, why is that a rant-worthy subject? there are a few fics in the fandom i consider bad, having had rave reviews for no good reason. i do feel bitter than they have 450 reviews on ff.net and i have 2, but that's pure envy and i admit to that. this often comes from people who have fans in their own right. so what's up?
and even the writers i can't bear the writing of, i can see that it's -my- bias at work as much as their writing skills-- i heavily prefer certain characterizations of characters, i heavily prefer stylistically pretty writing over a more prosey style, i prefer whimsy and snark and angst and humor over earnestness and heavy-handed narration and sap. some people write earnest sap with smooth, delicate-creature-who-needs-a-hug!draco, and i hate it to bits and pieces, i really do, but that's -me- as much as them. if i don't like a characterization type, it'd take the heavy presence of something i -do- like-- snark and humor or smut, usually, to make me enjoy it. some people hate characterizations to the point where nothing else matters. that's okay. why do they then say it's all the writer's fault alone? and where does the resentment come in, the need to -rant-, the sense of righteousness?
this self-righteousness is, i think, more wanky than the honest emotional upheavals and possible over-sensitivity of the people they're wanking. i mean, where's the compassion here? where's the comraderie, the understanding that not everyone's writing is going to be created equal, and we're doing this 'cause we love the world & characters, we're all improving, we can all use constructive critique? no one is that good, good enough to feel superior, quite simply. none of you. none. of. you. and that's okay-- it's a well-known fact to those that know me at all that i extravagantly adore much your writing, so i say this with frantic admiration. some of us are brilliant, spectacularly talented, yes-- but we're none of us perfect, none of us at the top of our game, none as good as we can be, not consistently so. and this is good-- most of us aren't even over 25 yet. so naturally, this is hopefully a process of growth.
and i do feel sour that i don't get more than 15 reviews, ever, and this badly-spelled silly-fic gets 879 on ff.net-- but i understand. people want a certain type of fic, and i don't write it, and -they- do. that simple. how can someone resent a -writer- for being popular?? how can someone then hold these writers to some higher standard as if they -applied- for some sort of publically elected position and they need to deserve it, or something? why should it make these people feel so good that they're "above" all this? because they're -not-, frankly. no one's above being emotional and human and fallible. some people are just not involved, but who's really -better-? do -they- want to see how -they- act in the same situation? do they want to compare graciousness points and win or something? i mean, maybe they do, i don't know.
i don't say anything when it's within the fandom, but seeing this jeering from the utter fringes is just the last straw. there's definitely this sense that they can point and laugh because they're different, they're outside the fray and above it all and they won't get splashed no matter what. it's like we're in an arena of some sort-- look at the creatures snarl and bite and jump, aren't they funny?
and i don't mean fandom_wank at all, because they don't put themselves outside fandom (at least, in ideal, it's supposed to be kind of -self- wankery, isn't it?) mostly, it's the self-righteousness that makes me upset, the pretention like "i'm better than -these- people, grow up you plebes". that's not wanking or snark, that's complete pathetic blubbering about things you know none of the intricacies or dynamics of, like the dursleys ranting about magic.
i'm just sick of it, really. just because these people aren't -their- friends, shouldn't mean they aren't their -fellows-. we're all fellow fans, fellow livejournalers, fellow human beings if nothing else. and of course, being a fellow anything has never stopped anyone in any context, usually, but. they make me angry anyway, heh.
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no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 02:51 pm (UTC)though i do like your "top from the bottom", not so much in the way you describe, but yes that mentality that you can be the dominant figure from position that seems submissive on the surface level.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 03:01 pm (UTC)maybe it's just that harry always bests him and dominates him that it's hard for me to imagine him actually being able to have any sort of advantage over harry. not that it's necessarily an advantage, but there's a measure of control... i dunno. in my mind, neither are hopefully being controlled, at least in terms of how they see it.
and i can definitely see that he'd -want- to be in control because he's insecure, it's just the question of being able to carry it off, i guess. and i meant to say that whereas i can see draco topping from the bottom-- ie, whining and demanding and yelling while still being ineffectual, i can't see -harry- like that. like, he wouldn't top from the bottom, you know, so he'd have to be top. or something. 'cause i guess he wouldn't communicate what he wants very easily. he'd just clam up and not demand anything and stop entirely or just repress his displeasure and then blow up later.
draco is more communicative, harry is more taciturn. that's what i was getting at with my stupid little snatch of dialogue.
i mean, he -is- dominant by nature (ie, he -wants- to be, he wants control and people to please him 'cause he's used to it, if anything, and with harry it would especially appeal to him i'm sure)-- and he's pathetic by nature, which would make him dominant & pathetic~:) but... harry actually -does- have a natural ability to win, to get on top of a situation so to speak. heh. i suppose in my mind, in any -contest- between harry and draco, harry would win. and sexual-type things shouldn't be a contest, and yet between two competitive teenage boys who're none too communicative, it probably would be, sort of. they'd prolly tussle and growl and insult each other the whole time. in my own little world, anyway. heh.
i didn't articulate very well, mostly 'cause my slight discomfort with "d/h" as a term and with draco-on-top isn't very rational.
hee. i think draco is split like that (dominant & submissive and mostly whiny)... somewhat passive aggressive i guess you'd call it... in more than one way. man, i just ramble like a -machine- ><;;
meep ^^
no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 03:59 pm (UTC)it's used to denote who has the 'upper hand' in the relationship, whether physical or otherwise. i find that it can make sense, and also possibly make things easier on readers.
:uses d/h extravagantly:
heeee. *evil look*
Date: 2003-07-26 04:11 pm (UTC)and yah, i know it's usually anime, but like...i dunno. i don't like duo/heero either, man. it's heero/duo or nothing..!! wah!! >:D
how can draco have the upper hand? i mean, he doesn't have to be tied up (though that's nice), but i mean... yes. it's not really anything that has any excuse on my part. h/d just sounds better. just like it's sirius/remus but not remus/sirius. i'm so following the establishment here, i know -.-
but it's more that i'm flippant, really.
and man, have you read `the spirit room'? i've read chapter one and it's like, really bad. does it get better?
ahahah i was thinking that if -i- was going to write vernon/harry rape, i'd make it -graphic-. am i so much more perverse than normal? yes, i probably am, but. it'd be so much more entertaining for me to see things like,
"and vernon's thick meaty cock pushed violently inside harry, ripping up his insides so that blood gushed in spurts, making the bile rise heavily in his throat. vernon grunted, yelling obsenities and something about harry's mother. harry hysterically wished he could stuff that wand up vernon's nostril just like that time with the troll. as the strokes got wilder and he was crushed even more deeply into the mattress, harry's mind was fully occupied with vivid, searing visions of 10 thousand different ways for vernon dursley to die."
heh. better than,
"Vernon Dursley's sharpened nails - ugly, yellow, thick, and incredibly brutal - wreaked their terror down across his shoulder blades, ravishing the flesh over his kidneys, and ending cruelly at the small of his back. Harry arched his spine involuntarily, gasping for breath. His uncle roughly pushed him back into place and brutalized his backside again, again - and again."
anyway -.-
...or maybe it's just a matter of taste XD
Re: heeee. *evil look*
Date: 2003-07-27 01:09 am (UTC)and yes, i have. it was.... well, once you got away from the awfulness of the dursley's it did get better. it's an interesting concept- but the execution is flawed. and it's released so slowly and so little along there's not much there to draw one in. thinks me.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 04:33 pm (UTC)And I do understand how you feel, but... gah. I kind of hold ff.net to a different standard than LiveJournal, because LiveJournal (for some part of it) really holds some diamonds in the rough, whereas ff.net is where all the teeny-boppers go to gush about Legolas. I've seen really terrible fics with four hundred reviews, but they mostly consist of omg this is so good /fill in the blank/ is so hot plz write more plz!!!11!!1 D'you remember the review you wrote for me, the epic Draco/Harry I was planning on beginning? It was so chock-full of constructive criticism, and it was so helpful to me. I would rather have one of those than eight-hundred reviews, you know? But that's beside the point, I know what's irking you isn't just the review quantity and I understand completely.
I don't think I'm making any sense, I'm starving, I want some food and alcohol and a cigarette, so this comment has probably just been nonsense gibberish. :p
no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 04:41 pm (UTC)i don't think it's got any actual -merit- to it, doing it whichever way doesn't matter, it's just that it's funny, to me anyway, that i always notice it. i don't actually remember it for longer than the second it takes to notice, but it's like... weird. for some hard-to-pin-down reason -.-
oh and i realize that the ff.net reviews are totally insane. heh. if anything, why-oh-why does my really-really-bad harry/cho get people to gush over it? 'course, people rarely give non-positive reviews, so maybe it's all self-selecting, but on the other hand most of my fics get barely -any-. but yah, it's not the reviews, it's the people going on about politics and other writers.
and you do make sense-- you'd have to try harder to confuse me >:D
no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 06:22 pm (UTC)You know my stance on H/D. Ahahahaha. Draco is just so not dom, it HURTS. :))!
no subject
Date: 2003-07-26 06:47 pm (UTC)you'd think i wrote something of -note- almost, not a casual "hey, i wonder why that bothers me. i'm so silly." hee >:D<
but yah, dom!draco... slightly disturbing (though he does want to be, i'm sure-- both dom and disturbing).
i think it's just that every fanon!harry who isn't dom has frightened me. like, have you read `perfect imperfection'? ahahah. yah. -.-
<333~!
no subject
Date: 2003-07-28 07:48 am (UTC)and i do feel sour that i don't get more than 15 reviews, ever, and this badly-spelled silly-fic gets 879 on ff.net-- but i understand. people want a certain type of fic, and i don't write it, and -they- do.
i know what you mean but i do resent the writers, though i shouldn't. still i can't help it. on a good day i get, like, five reviews. seriously. and that is rare. and maybe it's because my writing is crap (i don't know, since no one bothers to tell me) but every fandom i've been in is rather obsessive about sex. a smut fic will get recs and reviews, tons of fans for it. always. it's much easier for a person writing smut to break in to a fandom and it's been that way since back when i was fifteen and writing velvet goldmine fics. i was friends with a writer who wrote beautiful, in-character, atmospheric stories that got barely any feedback. whereas there was a guy who would write smutty, horrifically written stories and get loads of replies. for the most part, people want simplicity and clarity and sex.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-28 09:00 am (UTC)sometimes i feel weird, 'cause like, does everyone just want to wank? ha, but then, -i- wouldn't mind at -all- if like, all the fics (or most of them) had sex in them, so i can't talk >:D<
i'm a smut writer, kinda. hee.
the whole preference for that certain kind of story isn't just fanfic-- it's also published literature and movies. human nature, apparently.
but yes, i too get rather pissed-- and wonder if people -read- me, even. see, i don't -need- all the (usually stupid, one-liner-type) reviews as long as i know people -read- in the first place. i mean, for instance-- there are like, 100-some people on my friends list. say... 30% very rarely do anything but skim (assuming 10% doesn't read me at all), another 25-30% never read my fics and only read my non-fic entries. that's still 30% of my friends list who could comment on my fics 'cause they do read them, theoretically-- not a high percentage, is it? and these aren't random readers on ff.net, these are people who -want- to read my stuff 'cause they have me friended, i assume.
so that's... like 42 who could comment because they read and they like. only like, 4 do, mostly. that's less than 10%, man. heh.
this whole math thing was pointless, of course, but.
yah, i feel your pain, though not about the smuttiness. hee >:D