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hautemonde's great post on fandom and status and so on, my first reaction was to go "word". that is also my second and third reaction. the problem is, well, that i'm not innocent. in a way i am, because i'd actually like to know whoever i'd wish paid attention to me because i think they're interesting, but. the feeling of contributing in any silent way to fandom politicking and the whole sorry mess sort of makes me sick. i do see people as -people-, but even so i'm guilty of prioritizing them based on how much they impress me (though i don't tend to be impressed by mass opinion or anything).
in my case, it's sort of amusing because i -could- get what i want (more interaction with whoever), if i actually did the social thing and talked to much of anyone in chat. instead, my own antisocialness and desire to read fic (what i'm here for) instead of talk that dooms this. i -would- talk to y'all, 'cause i think you're brilliant, but i mean, not -only- is there stupid schoolwork but i have all these fanfics i want to read and end up reviewing. i simply don't have time to be in the fandom for the fics -and- for the people.
and it's a good point. the more one is in the fandom, the more it becomes for the people. for most people-- people less freaky and pathetic than me, i guess. because i too, live for your comments (well, the comments of the people i respect and adore, whichever). i die of pleasure if someone who usually doesn't respond to people, responds to me. i feel validated as much as someone would feel validated by a response to their fanfic. i usually think about what i say to someone in a comment, so if i get a reply, i feel like i communicated and we're striking up a connection, there. and i -want- a connection with you if i comment on your journal with any frequency. most likely, i think i like you, and would like to talk to you more. so i mean, while i too squirm with pleasure if you (you, the bnf or whatever) reply, it's not because you're a bnf so much as because i really really admire you, personally.
but of course i don't know if that's all it is, and obviously one's general fandom mojo does affect my impressions of someone. so i guess if i'm super-impressed with you but you're not known for being a distant glorious personage, i guess i'd assume you're busy or whatever. so yes, there's an extra bounce there. and yes, if the bnf/person-i'm-impressed-with -doesn't- reply to me, i feel like i'm not good enough for a reply. but this isn't fandom-related. this is self-esteem related. which is my point.
i think the thing is-- as far as whether people obsess over online politics or whatever-- whether the person is well-balanced and healthily socialized in real life. i know i'm a sort of borderline case. i have a healthy self-esteem, at bottom, but it's untested. i realize i'm smart and well-spoken (well, i can be anyway), and i realize my writing isn't crap and a lot of people like it and i myself like it (sometimes more than others). i've actually re-read my writings with a sense of pleasure-- i enjoy my own stuff, always have. not -all- of it, but i think there's a smoothness to it at best, which is a source of pleasure to me. i write because i enjoy it, and it seems to be merely a matter of conscious effort to fix my mistakes-- the common ones being obscurity and lack of solid characterization and plotting. i write stream of consciousness stuff more than anything, by default, so my characters tended to be washed out, in regular fic-- or at least, they start out strong, and i feel i'm on to something and then i just get carried away on the pleasures of my own prose.
but anyway. so yes, i know i'm interesting. but. i'm very very very shy and unsure of myself in most group settings. i've never had a lot of friends, and i need reassurance to really believe people like me, rather than just thinking i'm a dork. 'cause plenty of people don't dig the whole psychodelic stream-of-consciousness babbling-till-one-drops thing. i can't always express myself right, and i'm just weird and verbose and i don't know-- i talk a lot. i make mistakes a lot, and i don't know when to stop. i put a lot of myself into my writing, and it's easy to hurt my feelings by misunderstanding me because i feel i've failed to communicate and my only real ability isn't enough to get the job done.
when i'm comfortable, i'm outgoing and funny and i know i'm "on the level". in fact, i'm even snobbish about it, i guess. but it's easy to get locked into your own little universe where there's -you- and there's -them-, and they're scary and brilliant and god-like and you're just ugly, common little you. it's not that i'm -like- that, but a part of me is. a lot of people are, around age 12-17. people say, "this isn't high school", and you know what? it is. it really, really is. sure, go ahead and say this -shouldn't- be high school. say we should be mature and we should help people out and not let them slip through the cracks, beating themselves up over nothing. sure.
but you know what? people always act like that, they just learn to pretend more, to hide it better. the insecurity and the low self-esteem go more underground, and you learn to dance the dance and brave the wind. even as public as i am, my own reticence and antisocial nature makes me slip through the cracks. so unless you tell me you want to hear me talk, i don't know. so yah, since i don't chat with you ('cause i'm still here for the h/d fic, insane as that is-- and yes, i'm not being facetious, i do think i'm unhealthily obsessive), the only way i have to get any social interaction at all is if you comment or you friend me. and so yah, i pay attention to that stuff and i get hurt and a bit worried if i'm ignored because i put myself in the situation where i have no other way of telling. if you defriend me or chronically don't respond to comments, i won't talk to you on aim and find out you still like me. that's just it. the lj is the fandom, for me. so all this comes together-- insecurities, my involvement being limited to lj, my admiration for the people i comment to-- to make me wibble and obsess.
i realize this is when it gets unhealthy. sigh. i should probably just step away from the computer. the problem is, summer's coming up. maybe i should just write an (original) novel this summer, or do a cross-country hike.
anyway. i'm not saying these are the "usual" reasons for people obsessing over fandom politics and commenting paranoia and friending paranoia and what have you. i think, actually, that i'm unusual and that the fact that i'm -not- a lurker, and a number of the "bnf's" (as well as general fandom folk) seem to actually -like- me (i -think-) changes the dynamic. if i was summarily ignored in 95% of instances (like in real life), there would be no issue, because i'd just be a lurker.
so maybe i don't understand the fangirl's/lurker's obsession with bnf's. i want to be -friends- with the people i admire/respect/squee over. i -like- you guys. i'm just too much of a freak to get on chat (what i mean is, i read too much porn, eheheh), plus i've had bad experiences with chat taking over my life (the net in general taking over my life). sigh. i realize that a lot of people don't respond to comments 'cause lj isn't a communication medium the way chat is, to them (like it is for me out of lack of alternatives). so it's a totally different paradigm, really. i -know-, intellectually, that they don't say anything because they don't have anything to add or they forgot or they're busy, it's not that they're saying i said stupid stuff and they don't like me anymore and i should just shut up. sigh. but it's hard convincing one's unstable emotions of things you know rationally.
but anyway. this is my (extremely messed up) reply tohautemonde's honest, much-needed and in all ways way cool post. i'll just go be social in the dining hall now. or not, because i sit by myself reading in the corner. but hey, whatever works.
~~
EDIT - in other (more upbeat) news,ztrin is one of the coolest people/writers in existence, and the "what do hp characters make you think of" meme is tempting me to do it myself and thus to post twice in one day (the horror! the horror!), but i dunno if i will 'cause i can never touch her utter greatness. *worships like a lowly fangirl* eheheeheh >:D<
no, i mean it. she's so brilliant i want to sing paeans to her. she's so brilliant i drop over and start twitching. her imagery is so startling and fresh and alive, it catches in my throat and makes me nervous. it makes me look around and see the world in a fresh light. her writing makes me happy to be able to read the english language. it makes me squirm in my seat, delighted that i'm reading this and not doing something else. i'm not angstying anymore. i'm content and buoyant with that peculiar sort of joy that only happens when you read something perfectly in tune with your head.
it is for this that i'm here. this completely crosses over any paranoia, any burn-out, any sort of feeling like i'm too lame and too insecure and i should really get a life. because this is why i live. i live for words that touch me like that, and images, and art and beauty and yes. god, i love this place.
hautemonde's great post on fandom and status and so on, my first reaction was to go "word". that is also my second and third reaction. the problem is, well, that i'm not innocent. in a way i am, because i'd actually like to know whoever i'd wish paid attention to me because i think they're interesting, but. the feeling of contributing in any silent way to fandom politicking and the whole sorry mess sort of makes me sick. i do see people as -people-, but even so i'm guilty of prioritizing them based on how much they impress me (though i don't tend to be impressed by mass opinion or anything). in my case, it's sort of amusing because i -could- get what i want (more interaction with whoever), if i actually did the social thing and talked to much of anyone in chat. instead, my own antisocialness and desire to read fic (what i'm here for) instead of talk that dooms this. i -would- talk to y'all, 'cause i think you're brilliant, but i mean, not -only- is there stupid schoolwork but i have all these fanfics i want to read and end up reviewing. i simply don't have time to be in the fandom for the fics -and- for the people.
and it's a good point. the more one is in the fandom, the more it becomes for the people. for most people-- people less freaky and pathetic than me, i guess. because i too, live for your comments (well, the comments of the people i respect and adore, whichever). i die of pleasure if someone who usually doesn't respond to people, responds to me. i feel validated as much as someone would feel validated by a response to their fanfic. i usually think about what i say to someone in a comment, so if i get a reply, i feel like i communicated and we're striking up a connection, there. and i -want- a connection with you if i comment on your journal with any frequency. most likely, i think i like you, and would like to talk to you more. so i mean, while i too squirm with pleasure if you (you, the bnf or whatever) reply, it's not because you're a bnf so much as because i really really admire you, personally.
but of course i don't know if that's all it is, and obviously one's general fandom mojo does affect my impressions of someone. so i guess if i'm super-impressed with you but you're not known for being a distant glorious personage, i guess i'd assume you're busy or whatever. so yes, there's an extra bounce there. and yes, if the bnf/person-i'm-impressed-with -doesn't- reply to me, i feel like i'm not good enough for a reply. but this isn't fandom-related. this is self-esteem related. which is my point.
i think the thing is-- as far as whether people obsess over online politics or whatever-- whether the person is well-balanced and healthily socialized in real life. i know i'm a sort of borderline case. i have a healthy self-esteem, at bottom, but it's untested. i realize i'm smart and well-spoken (well, i can be anyway), and i realize my writing isn't crap and a lot of people like it and i myself like it (sometimes more than others). i've actually re-read my writings with a sense of pleasure-- i enjoy my own stuff, always have. not -all- of it, but i think there's a smoothness to it at best, which is a source of pleasure to me. i write because i enjoy it, and it seems to be merely a matter of conscious effort to fix my mistakes-- the common ones being obscurity and lack of solid characterization and plotting. i write stream of consciousness stuff more than anything, by default, so my characters tended to be washed out, in regular fic-- or at least, they start out strong, and i feel i'm on to something and then i just get carried away on the pleasures of my own prose.
but anyway. so yes, i know i'm interesting. but. i'm very very very shy and unsure of myself in most group settings. i've never had a lot of friends, and i need reassurance to really believe people like me, rather than just thinking i'm a dork. 'cause plenty of people don't dig the whole psychodelic stream-of-consciousness babbling-till-one-drops thing. i can't always express myself right, and i'm just weird and verbose and i don't know-- i talk a lot. i make mistakes a lot, and i don't know when to stop. i put a lot of myself into my writing, and it's easy to hurt my feelings by misunderstanding me because i feel i've failed to communicate and my only real ability isn't enough to get the job done.
when i'm comfortable, i'm outgoing and funny and i know i'm "on the level". in fact, i'm even snobbish about it, i guess. but it's easy to get locked into your own little universe where there's -you- and there's -them-, and they're scary and brilliant and god-like and you're just ugly, common little you. it's not that i'm -like- that, but a part of me is. a lot of people are, around age 12-17. people say, "this isn't high school", and you know what? it is. it really, really is. sure, go ahead and say this -shouldn't- be high school. say we should be mature and we should help people out and not let them slip through the cracks, beating themselves up over nothing. sure.
but you know what? people always act like that, they just learn to pretend more, to hide it better. the insecurity and the low self-esteem go more underground, and you learn to dance the dance and brave the wind. even as public as i am, my own reticence and antisocial nature makes me slip through the cracks. so unless you tell me you want to hear me talk, i don't know. so yah, since i don't chat with you ('cause i'm still here for the h/d fic, insane as that is-- and yes, i'm not being facetious, i do think i'm unhealthily obsessive), the only way i have to get any social interaction at all is if you comment or you friend me. and so yah, i pay attention to that stuff and i get hurt and a bit worried if i'm ignored because i put myself in the situation where i have no other way of telling. if you defriend me or chronically don't respond to comments, i won't talk to you on aim and find out you still like me. that's just it. the lj is the fandom, for me. so all this comes together-- insecurities, my involvement being limited to lj, my admiration for the people i comment to-- to make me wibble and obsess.
i realize this is when it gets unhealthy. sigh. i should probably just step away from the computer. the problem is, summer's coming up. maybe i should just write an (original) novel this summer, or do a cross-country hike.
anyway. i'm not saying these are the "usual" reasons for people obsessing over fandom politics and commenting paranoia and friending paranoia and what have you. i think, actually, that i'm unusual and that the fact that i'm -not- a lurker, and a number of the "bnf's" (as well as general fandom folk) seem to actually -like- me (i -think-) changes the dynamic. if i was summarily ignored in 95% of instances (like in real life), there would be no issue, because i'd just be a lurker.
so maybe i don't understand the fangirl's/lurker's obsession with bnf's. i want to be -friends- with the people i admire/respect/squee over. i -like- you guys. i'm just too much of a freak to get on chat (what i mean is, i read too much porn, eheheh), plus i've had bad experiences with chat taking over my life (the net in general taking over my life). sigh. i realize that a lot of people don't respond to comments 'cause lj isn't a communication medium the way chat is, to them (like it is for me out of lack of alternatives). so it's a totally different paradigm, really. i -know-, intellectually, that they don't say anything because they don't have anything to add or they forgot or they're busy, it's not that they're saying i said stupid stuff and they don't like me anymore and i should just shut up. sigh. but it's hard convincing one's unstable emotions of things you know rationally.
but anyway. this is my (extremely messed up) reply to
hautemonde's honest, much-needed and in all ways way cool post. i'll just go be social in the dining hall now. or not, because i sit by myself reading in the corner. but hey, whatever works.~~
EDIT - in other (more upbeat) news,
ztrin is one of the coolest people/writers in existence, and the "what do hp characters make you think of" meme is tempting me to do it myself and thus to post twice in one day (the horror! the horror!), but i dunno if i will 'cause i can never touch her utter greatness. *worships like a lowly fangirl* eheheeheh >:D<no, i mean it. she's so brilliant i want to sing paeans to her. she's so brilliant i drop over and start twitching. her imagery is so startling and fresh and alive, it catches in my throat and makes me nervous. it makes me look around and see the world in a fresh light. her writing makes me happy to be able to read the english language. it makes me squirm in my seat, delighted that i'm reading this and not doing something else. i'm not angstying anymore. i'm content and buoyant with that peculiar sort of joy that only happens when you read something perfectly in tune with your head.
it is for this that i'm here. this completely crosses over any paranoia, any burn-out, any sort of feeling like i'm too lame and too insecure and i should really get a life. because this is why i live. i live for words that touch me like that, and images, and art and beauty and yes. god, i love this place.
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no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 05:23 pm (UTC)I enjoy the "analysis of the fandom ecology" kind of writing. I've had mixed feelings about (specifically) the HP fandom, because the other fandoms I've been involved in have been so much easier for me to connect with, and I haven't really understood why. I agree with the high school analogy. Someone said to me that the whole adult world is just high school revisited, and I have to agree. Things don't really change much - social interactions are based on the same principles as they were in school. My undying hope is to find people I can talk to about things that are important to me, and the rest will go on just fine without me.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 09:36 pm (UTC)If you're commenting and reviewing (and rec-ing) then I don't see how you're being antisocial. Those look like fairly interactive and friendly activities.
I'm not familiar with the Buffy or Smallville fandoms, being not enough of a fan to go there, so I haven't seen the meta discussions there. Some of the analysis I've seen in HP-land has been pretty sweet though. Very thoughtful stuff, I agree, in amidst the fluff. Not that there's anything wrong with fluff! (she hastened to add)
no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 09:56 pm (UTC)and as far as being antisocial... heh. i feel like to really be -friends- with people, i'd need to chat with them. at least, that's my paranoid fear ;)
no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 05:59 pm (UTC)*hugs*
i was, you know, excusing my extreme obsessiveness, but not so much trying to make a commentary on the people i do (rather rarely, still) talk to, you know. *eyebrow twitch* 'cause um. yah.
I'M NOT THAT BAD AM I??!!?? *spazz-attack*
ahem. <3
...
Date: 2003-04-28 06:01 pm (UTC)they'll-all-think-i-want-them-for-their-status-and-then-they'll-think-i'm-a-dork-which-is-obvious-anyway-but-still-it's-not-true-dammit. *laughs*
Re: ...
Date: 2003-04-28 06:47 pm (UTC)Re: ...
Date: 2003-04-28 06:51 pm (UTC)*wakes up*
i think i want some coffee... ><;;
<3
i was kind of joking. although that was a wibbly entry and i was all, "dammit-they-all-think-"..."-now-don't-they-no-they-don't-do-they-i'm-just-paranoid-right?-right". except i got all distracted by trin's nifty post so i'm all better now. and stuff.
*twitches* it was last day of my favorite class.
excuse dammit! EXCUSE! *laughs*
Re: ...
Date: 2003-04-28 07:15 pm (UTC)*hug*
Next time I won't be so forgiving. >:D
no subject
Date: 2003-04-28 07:28 pm (UTC)lol
no subject
Date: 2003-04-29 09:56 am (UTC)and um, was/am stuck in computer lab being consultant lady-- no aim, no fun/happy programs, only me and a mac and a lot of users with stuck disks >.<
at least i'm making money in my quest to not get a real job ~:)
and um, i'll add that handle to my list ^^
*feels wanted* :D
no subject
Date: 2003-04-29 02:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-29 09:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-29 04:14 am (UTC)And I'm glad you're happy over the meme; I had no idea memes could make people that happy. You should do it, really, it's really good fun. <333 MEMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SPREAD AROUND.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-29 09:58 am (UTC)and i won't disenchant you by telling you what a bnf is. i was much happier when -i- didn't know >:D<
and i was like, wahhh i can never reach that level of wonderfulness. but yes, i might just. <3
no subject
Date: 2003-04-30 07:50 pm (UTC)Actually it feels to me more like fourth grade. But (and this is the good thing) it feels like a chance for me to go back and do fourth grade the way I should have done it the first time - being myself and not freaking out if I'm not everyone's cup of tea.
The other thing I wanted to say is that I'm thrilled that you can read your own writing with pleasure. You go, girl!