~~baby-steps, they say.

[reenka]

i think there's some sort of rule that i get nothing done during breaks. i'm like, "heeeyyy, i have all this -time-, of -course- i'll do it..." and then i stare at the wall for 10 hours or something. i could've read every fic i wanted to get to, -and- do my reading for class -and- finish my longfic. okay, that's a tad -too- ambitious. which is why i don't do things-- because i get too ambitious, really. but anyway.

speaking of longfic. it occurred to me why so many people over-explain everything in many an "epic" tale. especially if it's a first-time fanfic, at least. i was reading through my first fanfic (and my god, is it bad), and one of the things i noticed was that (horror of horrors) i went and explained my pov character's motivations-- in first person. straight out. i mean. shoot me now.
    and then i was reading a bit of another tale, someone else's first fanfic-- and again, it seemed rather trite and expository. it occurred to me that if you're writing a chaptered fic-- especially if it's your first major chaptered fanfic-- you're going to have the need to get to know your characters. you're getting to know them as you write them, so basically-- maybe it's not so much that the writer is insulting my intelligence as a reader, but rather they're doing all this for their own benefit.

maybe you could even see this as a general thing-- instead of thinking that someone's merely being stupid by saying things that are "obvious" or shouldn't need to be pointed out to an intelligent audience, you could say that they're merely saying the only things they can think of. they don't know how else to conceive of it, so they trace over the known to get to the unknown. it's sort of like starting from square one.

on the one hand, if someone says, "harry is a boy", you could easily be irritated. but what if you need that to then say, "harry is a boy who missed his parents". and then only afterwards can you say, "harry is a boy whose sadness wasn't obvious". and then, "only the other could see it". and then you get to the point. or something.

i don't know. but what if it's true-- what if the author simply hasn't done any retroactive editing in that case, and what we're seeing is a process of growth. so, maybe in the next fic they wouldn't need to explain the same things again? when i was going over my old longfic, i could now take out a lot and condense and totally change characterizations-- i certainly don't need anyone to explain their motivations to me. but back then i was merely exploring them myself.

and now, writing my present longfic, i find that i'm tempted to have the characters or narrator explain things-- plot things. because i wouldn't know them myself, not in the same detail, otherwise. obviously, i doubt everyone's issues and motivations are the same, but it makes me more open to others' blunders, knowing they're part of a learning process. or something.

Comments

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

You're writing a longfic? Interesting - I thought you said you weren't going to? Or is it not HP?

Is it arrogant to say that I'm proud of my first fanfic? I don't know - most people, especially those with languid WiPs that never update or at least never get finished, seem to hate the opening chapters, especially if it's the first piece of fanfic they've ever written, as VM was for me. But I was rereading it this evening, just to try to get a handle on it again after such a long time, and I was actually enjoying it, even the first chapter. Actually, I really like my first chapter. The Draco bit's mediocre, but my italicised Veela are cool and I think Harry was distinctly IC. And erm, now I sound like such a freaking' egotist. Blame it on the fact that I should have been asleep hours ago. I guess I'm just pleased, and a little surprised, that I'm still happy with something I wrote nearly a year ago.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. oh, it's hp alright. well, you know how it is. *laughs* i can never predict the future. it's not like a huge chaptered behemoth or anything, it's just-- it's a third done, at -most- (maybe even a quarter) and it's already as long as the longest one-shot i've written, so that makes it a longfic, right? :D
i'm not breaking it up into chapters though, 'cause that's just intimidating, man -.-

and, re: veela magic. ehehehe :D *bounces* write!write!write! :D

er. yah. you had a very definite vision there from a start, and a rather consistent quality and a characterization-- but then, you're lasair, a unique and beautiful snowflake :D *giggles, but is serious*

it's unusual, anyway. plus, when i was writing my idiotic first fanfic, i had no clue what i wanted to say, really-- i was spouting recycled nonsense. heh. (can't believe -anyone- liked any part of it, -ever-, but then, my writing itself isn't sucky, it's just what i do with it). but yah, my idea of why people over-explain comes from people who don't really have a very good grasp on things. whereas i wouldn't say that about you ~:)

and yah, my present fic is the one for armchair's `across a crowded room' challenge. i'm beginning to be rather excited about it (PLOT BABY PLOT!!!). i've sort-of started a chaptered fic several times-- `tangent', my friendship fic-- also `waking wishes' (though that's only 3 chapters). but they don't have a beautiful, lovely -plot-, eheheh. i also had an idea for an evil!draco fic i had a plot for, but no direct inspiration.

whereas this-- this has a plot. a big plot. oh, i love it. *bounces*

harry & draco save the woooooorld!! *laughs*
i almost want someone to read it, even though it's all raw and it's got pieces from the future sprinkled randomly. but sigh. it's got a draco who isn't cliche and ...i wrote dumbledore..!... and stuff. i'm pleased with myself.

hee. a bit of narcissism isn't a bad thing. you need some just to keep writing, i think~:)

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

*laughs* You know what? I think I've just got too much damn pride to let myself write crap, or at least to show it to people. Mediocrity, sure, unsatisfactory, whatever, but if it was bad, I'd just be in agonies over it! I'm bad enough at the moment knowing that Killa, my D/M goddess, is going to read that Kronos fic I wrote! Because I think it's okay, but hell, how do I know? *wibblewantcanonwibble*

Harry and Draco Save the World sounds good. And I'm very fond of long one-shots.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*laughs* well. i'd stop short of calling `one good reason' craptastic. plus, you realize, i -didn't- show it to people, really. it was only ever up on my site, where no one goeth. like, -now- draco's characterization scares me (omg, i wrote fanon!draco armed to the teeth with angst and thwarted desire and rage against harry. ahahaha.) at the time, i was just feeling out my characterization, but i knew enough to know it sucked, 'cause i didn't have anywhere i was -going- with it.

i mean-- it's okay to be ooc, as long as you have a -point-, and aren't just ooc 'cause you don't know better. and your kronos fic was short and dealt with stuff outside canon, in which he was just a bloodthirsty devil who only showed up for a couple of episodes, right? just how wrong can you go, there? ~:)

the fic i was reading-- i dunno if it was craptastic either. but there's only so much fics that start out with the trio on the train talking about the coming year and making lame jokes you can -read- before you -die-. i was like, LET ME GUESS, AND THEN MALFOY COMES IN!!

i dunno if he does yet, but whaddya wanna bet? *laughs*
so yah. and the author was like, "yah, i know 'tis craptastic, but it gets better once i get to the plot". and i was like, -maaan-, a fic needs characterization and pacing too you know ^^;

and i don't tend to post things i consider awful. then again, i don't tend to even keep -writing- those. i mean, if i can tell it sucks, i just rewrite. or start over. no need to torture myself with something like, "and it was harry's seventh year, and hermione was nostalgic with him on the train." *sighs* but then again, they're doing that 'cause jkr does it, so i dont' get to complain, do i -.-

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

*dies at your description of JKR's writing*

Glad you don't hate your first fic - lots of people seem to be all Ahh, My Juvenilia, They Are Burning Me. And hey, nothing wrong with fanon!Draco in moderation. Thwarted desire and rage against Harry sounds perfectly IC to me!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Thwarted desire and rage against Harry sounds perfectly IC to me!
ahahahah. ya sure? :D

Each time I see you, I want to growl, have you quake before me. I want to release all this pent-up maddened energy any way I can. I want to fuck you blind. I want to hold your life in my hands, in these very hands, bloodless and girl-like, and oh so powerless. Be mine, be mine, be mine, sweet valentine. You make me enjoy my perversity more than I thought possible, with your purity and kindness slapping me across my face, a challenge to everything I was always content being. I forget what was it that occupied me, before. I can't decide whether I want to break you, or taunt you, drive you to the edge. Oh, how I love seeing you squirm. You can't ignore this either, can you-- my presence like a fist in your gut. This makes me smile. I have you, and you don't even know it-- this is what I tell myself. I have you already. It's just a matter of time before you realize it, before you come to me. I don't really know how-- or who you'd be, then-- after all, I like the chase more than the catch. I probably won't want you, Potter, if I got you. I'm not good enough for you-- you'd never want me-- so if I had you, I suppose that means your hands are just as dirty as mine-- and that bores me to no end, Potter. Everyone's hands are dirty-- everyone I've ever seen. Not the Boy Who Lived, oh no, he's going to save us from ourselves. Ha. Those fools. What do they know? Even if you saved them, they'd just fall prey to their perversions all over again.

I watch you, I taunt you, I needle you and ignore you and do my best to make your life the same living hell you make mine, but it's not working, is it? You have your precious Mudblood and that freak boy. The teachers dote on you, everybody's hero. You're the Dark Lord's number one annoyance. And I suppose for you, I'm less than that-- some sort of lesser annoyance, best not thought of. Who am I kidding. I'm such a fool, I can't even fool myself properly. All I want is for you to feel this too. I'd pretty much hand myself over to you on a silver platter, just like everybody else. Here, take me, Potter. What? You haven't noticed? Well, I'm offering. I -have- been offering, so long now, that if you took me now I think I might just cry. Yes I'm kidding, ha, that was a good one wasn't it? I hate you, after all. There are no limits to what I'd say to fuck with your mind. Or do. I might even fuck you. Careful, now.

*laughs herself silly* ;)

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

I like it! Well, the sweet valentine line is definitely going overboard. But I really did like it!

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

maybe there isn't an easy way to make psychotic angst sit well with me in terms of realism, just because of its inherent melodrama. but it seems way too self-aware to me now. isn't he supposed to be more in self-denial that that? and why are his inner thoughts all pretty and poetic and rhythmical? on the other hand, this isn't uncommon. but, this isn't a draco for longfic. it's the draco for a short vignette where someone dies or throws themselves off astronomy tower while screaming their lover's name. or something ^^;

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

True, it couldn't be sustained for a longfic. And the last paragraph is probably too self-aware. But I think he could be perfectly well aware of what he wants to do to Harry.

But what about the paper airplanes?

[unstasis.livejournal.com]

But the explining in your story start was through a journal usually.. Which seemed liek a good gimmic to start off with. It was interesting having this overly thought out existentially psychotic Draco I thought.. but I thought it was even more interesting as it became apparent to Draco that the diary really wasn't helping that much (I think it only made him realize he lied to himself all the time) he destroyed it by making it into a bunch of paper airplanes. I guess I'm just saying that it might be a bit rough, but its okay for there to be 1st person narratives that try to explain the characters.. especially when the characters are wrong about those analyses.. It's funny you know? I'd say the most you need with that story really (other than some basic reworking here and there, is just to make sure the summer scenes and the fall are more connected to the "dramatic conclusion" in the end scene(the "harvest"?)or tone down the fall scene because unless they were both even more psychotic than they seemed to themselves it wouldn't escalate that fast I don't thik unless mayb the imp had something to do with it ;)

[pingviini.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, yes, bow and amen to your theory that the author is getting to know his/her characters while writing. Why this triteness and over-explaining becomes so obvious in fanfiction, I mean so much more so than in original writing (I'm thinking published books here), is probably not only due to inexperienced fanfic writers, but also to the fact that fanfic is usually posted chapter by chapter. If you write for publishing, you finish your story before it is placed under people's eyes. And at the end of the story, you know your characters so well that you can go back and edit the early chapters to get rid of the tell-instead-of-show parts. A lot of multi-chaptered fanfiction would gain from being completed before it is posted, even if it's still posted chapter by chapter.

[ishuca.livejournal.com]

amen and amen.

am actually taking a break from penning PoL20 right now and... the first 8 chapters make me twitch. i mean, there's a lot of good stuff there, too, but- yeah. i was definitely still finding my way then. once i'm done with PoL i'm very tempted to go back and heavily edit the first eight chapters.

pingviini is right about published authors, too. they write it and then edit it extensively before sending their work to be published. no publishing chapter by chapter, which has just as many drawbacks as it does pluses.

it also depends on the writer, though, i think. if it's someone who has been writing for a while then they are going to be more comfortable in their work. but if they are expanding their repertoire or experimenting or just plain beginning then there's a lot of room for growth.

oh, and, erm, if you were online in the past two days i've sort of not been online much at all and a bit down and avoiding things, so sorry if i missed you on chat.

:hugs and apologizes:

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

hee. *hugs*
dunna worry, i do wanna see you, but. i mean. i wasn't about to hound you to edit me or anything. hee!
although i'm getting a buzz off of my "h+d save the wooorld" fic, so i might make you look at it before it's done. but i mean, not unless you want to :D

i know what avoiding things is like. i do it almost every second of every day. *laughs*
and i mean-- there are almost always -some- good things, just 'cause it's hard to write -total- crap. *laughs* and the reason i hadn't edited it -before- was 'cause i was like, "heeyyy, this isn't badly written". but now, i can look back on it and say, "but that doesn't matter, because this is soooo not draco malfoy", and that's that.

i mean, usually you write the stuff you write for a -reason-. it's just later, the reason isn't as important as is overall usefulness to what you're trying to say.
although i personally miss the tone of the initial bunch of chapters, back when i thought it was a fun fic about veela and flying hippos. or something like that. *laughs* okay, so it changed pretty quick. that scene in the changing rooms is -still- traumatic to remember. i lost my innocence then, i think. never have i felt so "meep!!"-like about a fic. i was all, "WAH, LOVE IS CRUEL", and stuff.

such fond memories of the flying sheets and the large animals. (i totally don't remember which large animal anymore). and then we entered the twilight zone.... *ominous music*... *draco's eyes start to glow red*... *blaise starts following them around and the walls start to melt*....*DEATH AND DESTRUCTION FOLLOW*

ahem -.-

[ishuca.livejournal.com]

h/d save the world? is it like ivy has them save the world? ^~

no, sure, i'd love to look at it. =^-^=

well, the initial chapters.... were lead up. and if you reread chapter two it is honestly quite dark, especially in how blaise acts. er. yes. reading dissection reports as bedtime stories? :personally thinks that's creepy:

and yeah, chapter eight signals the true switch, though it was building up to that bit by bit. ^~
heheheh, but i -did- label it as darkfic from the very beginning, remember. :snuggles the plot:

:cuddles death and destruction:

heh. and you think love is cruel now? :cackles evilly:

yeah. so. would like to edit, not for the feeling, because the sudden descent into madness is intentional, but for other stuff. yeah.

only thing i'm requiring of you is that if you still want your chapter dedication you have to be caught up on PoL by the time the chapter is released. if not i might have to rethink dedicating it. ^~
problem being, i'm not going to tell you when it shall be.... :evil grin:

:goes back to writing death and destruction:

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

wah.
soooo. i'm getting this feeeeling like...
you want me to read ur fik >:D<
*bounces* it's just an intuition :D

hee. i'll see what i can do about that ;)
wouldn't want the fluffy-bunny chapter of lurve to go undedicated. ahahah. moi, that fluffy!pol!h/d shipper >:D<

oh and yes, they save the world...er... well. yes, it has magic in it :D
and like, spells. and stuff. shocking for me, i know.
it was alice's pic for armchair, with the circle and the flames and the wands.
mmmm, wands rubbing together in the witchlight.
'tis good~:)

[ishuca.livejournal.com]

soooo. i'm getting this feeeeling like...
you want me to read ur fik >:D<

:laughs: well yes, there is that. but the chapter's not going to be published for a while yet. and i do mean a while. so take your time. ;)
but it is something you should know, since the dedication itself would be a spoiler, especially if you're not up to date. and you know how i can feel about those, so... =^-^=

lol, saving the world, huh? speaking of fics, though, how's that narcissa piece coming? since, you know, you haven't put that one out yet?

:hint hint:

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

awwwww. you wanna see more of the narcissa piece. *touched!*
i've been all distracted by actually writing a bit for the longfic. but i guess, just as with the other one, any narcissism in my writing is likely to be premature at best, so. *laughs* i'm so impatient. i'll just post it to you (even though it's in bits and pieces, you can understand the general idea, which is what i'm interested in). wah! i want someone to know! *giggles*

but yes. narcissa, yes~:)