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reenkaif you want to spoil me horribly to the point where i will adore you forever (or whatever passes), write really dorky boycrushing fic. does it every time. i wonder if i'm easy, or immature, or what. but people acting like total, utter, desperate dorks is just the most brilliant thing. come to think of it, this is making me think strangely of ron. because what bigger dork is there? hmmm. must ponder this. but more to the point, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
deche has a bit of one, and quire posted some today, too. they are just... well. they hit the spot, let us just say.
and see, it's not that i need the boy-crushing to be -happy-. it's perfectly fine being unrequited and messed up and completely insane, even. most people write angsty angst, but see, when i was 15, my angst was extremely dorky. i was like pippi longstocking, except really not popular. i was like brian, from `my so-called life', except not as social. i was like, that dork that sips the chocolate milk at the farthest corner of the lunch table.
and it's not to say that teen angst is inconsequential or funny somehow. actually, i think all angst is funny. it's hilarious. there's this whole range of humor that is all about how fucked up life is, and how stupid we are, and how ridiculous our expectations of ourselves and others are, and just how nothing ever goes our way because 99.9% of humanity is made up of complete losers.
er. not to say they're not lovable, beautiful, "special" losers (ehehhehe). but. black humor is my bag, baby. i was actually wondering where to classify `contrition' under my recs. humor or drama? i mean, it's kind of black (really black) humor, but i think most people clicking on it intending to giggle and laugh, wouldn't get what they asked for. so it went under drama.
anyway. i love stories that make me think, and shiver, and feel, yes. but i have a special, really really huge soft spot for stories that make me laugh at myself and at humanity and at our shared inane dorkiness. sometimes i think this is why i like ginny. sort of because i think she's this really huge dork.
~~
revelation: looking for the second or third time at aspen's ginny shrine, i realized something. it snuck up on me, it did. i don't know HOW this happened. it's mind-boggling and vaguely disturbing. or not. anyway.
let's just say it. let's just.
I LOVE GINNY WEASLEY TOO!!
*mad laughter*
i still don't love ron. i'm beginning to like ron, but love? it ain't never gonna be love, bebeh. but ok. i think i love ginny more than hermione. secretly, i'm more like ginny than hermione, ahahahah. are y'all surprised?? 'tis true. i have thus far disliked ginny for two reasons: a) people who want to make her into cinderella either with harry because he's The Hero she wants, or with draco because they think... well, what aja said-- though then there are the people who want to pair her with tom/bill/percy/ron/etc. (but let's not go into that); and b) people who make her into their little personal avatar.
on the one hand, i think it's a valid reason to want to write a character or to have affection for a character because you identify with them. this happens all the time with people, and is just part of reading, to me anyway. (a blatant example in this little corner of the fandom would be all the people who identify heavily with either hermione or draco). sort of like liking or disliking a character for whatever reason is usually considered okay. of course, forcing the story in any direction because you want the character to get what you think she wants, or alternatively, to suffer, is where the questionableness comes in. i would personally never do that with any character, simply because i don't see the point. i -have- written one fic that was mostly symbolically autobiographical, though i don't think anyone but me would ever know, simply because of how symbolic it was. naturally, this also means it probably doesn't make much -sense- to anyone but me, but still, it was a definite projection of self onto something that should be "just a character", but the lines between "self" and "character" are always fuzzy for me anyway. i mean, i'm not draco, but i draw upon emotions and thoughts that i understand on some level, at least, in order to write him, otherwise i just -couldn't-, if he was a complete cipher. and in a way, anyone who's not a cipher is in some way a part of me.
actually, i've -written- ginny. several times now. i think i have a better grip on her than on hermione or ron or possibly even draco. i can dig ginny. it's a shameful (or maybe not-so-shameful) thing. i can -understand- ginny, i'm pretty sure. she's isn't hard to understand, true, but i can certainly do it. i have a bit of most characters (in hp anyway) in me, because they're so archetypical (ahahahah y'all might disagree, but that's just how i see it). but. ginny.
yes. i like ginny as long as it's ... not a "happy weasley family" or a "star-crossed meant-to-be couple" thing. first of all, i like -individuals-, not families. families, when so horribly large and group-like, squick me. my own largish (though thankfully, not immediate) family squicks me. i am biased and antisocial and get all these look-alike freaks away from me!!
i think i was taking out my dislike for groups, similarity, cliques, frothy victorian-type romances and ooc draco-worship out on ginny, poor girl. i don't like "the weasley". as if all of them are part of this.... "thing". this over-arching... thing. hair, personality, what have you. it frightens me, man. it frightens me. i like individualism to the point of insanity, and it's like-- gah. i even have a slight fetish for incest-fic, i just cannot transfer onto weasleycest because it's not -just- incest, it's like... complete mind-wiping. the mirror aspect is so played up (in my head) that i feel sick. y'know, red. red, red, red. red everywhere. aaaaaaaargh!
then again, i'm an only child, so ><;;
i like tragic!ginny. i like independent!ginny. i like obsessed!ginny. i like misguided!ginny. i like almost any ginny as long as she's not defined by a) being a weasley or b) being harry's (or anyone's) girlfriend. i'd pair her with hermione or some other girl except i don't like any other girl besides hermione (i mean, ok pansy, but....but... that's pansy!! geez. ginny deserves someone who wasn't described as a pug-faced stupid slytherin.)
and of course, hermione is with ron. for two reasons. a) i think hermione's probably straight (and if she wasn't, she wouldn't be bi, she'd be this butch lesbian, but canonically, she likes ron, so there goes that); b) hermione can't be with harry. again, i would be ok with her being alone (i'm ok with -anyone- being alone except possibly harry, because awww, w00bie, he needs someone to loff him, eheheh, and also ron, since he -really- needs people, i think). i like a lot of people better alone (another big example would be snape). anyway, hermione can't be with harry (to me) because um... he's taken (eheheh), and also... hmm. i dunno. it's too... tame. i can't see it. i mean, they're friends. i know i go on about how friends can always be lovers... but if there's no passion, and it's all calm and clear-skies and stuff, i mean... why mess with that? i can see it. they'd be such good "companions". they'd be like an old married couple after two weeks... not in a good way. in that really staid, complacent way. and then harry would snap. because in my head, harry always snaps, ehehe. and hermione wouldn't know what to do. because y'know... ron snaps all the time, but it's not -serious- so she could just ignore it and be "tough" like she -should-. but with harry, that wouldn't work. so i dunno.
and gah, i hope this doesn't make anyone start explaining the glory of h/hr to me. heh. i'm just here to talk about the weasleys. one thing at a time.
~~
so. reading `beneath you', yet another fic where ron is a jealous irrational git who's making harry choose draco over him. i realized i felt bad-- not because it's a cliche, but just because i feel disappointed in ron. he could do so much better. he doesn't -have- to be unlikeable, does he? aren't we the ones who refuse to give him any love even as draco gets redeemed in fic after fic (though not as yet believably).
yes, we know he had issues being jealous of harry and he hates malfoy. conversely, -malfoy- has issues being jealous of harry and hating ron. in an h/d fic, let's assume they both also don't hate harry.
he doesn't have to behave always like he only cares about himself. he doesn't -have- to make the same mistake as in fourth year. why do so many people insist on making him pick his pride over harry? i don't think he'd just -accept- it (especially not because hermione said so). still, the alternative is hardly complete rejection.
also, i think harry would be hard-pressed to pick malfoy over ron. i mean, i know it's supposed to be a romance, but if you think about it, harry is v. loyal. he picked ron over malfoy before, and that was before at least 4 years of friendship.
he's like a brother to harry, and that's more important to him than a normal person, even, considering. and yet, the only story i can think of where harry chooses ron (even though the choosing itself is ridiculous) is `unthinkable thoughts', which was being -really- over-the-top about it & it wasn't so much ron as harry's insecurities.
harry is probably unsure of draco, still harboring resentment, even. and yet, he's always completely lost any rapport with ron, often so much so that we don't know exactly -why- they're best friends except by force of habit.
ron sometimes acquiesces, grudgingly accepts that harry is dead-set on draco, but he never really -tries- to do anything to understand or dissuade him or.... oh, i don't know.
i think part of the process of writing and getting to know characters is finding you have some sort of affection and relationship with each one of them. once you breach that boundary of first knowledge, everything seems different. it's like they're suddenly -real- for the first time. they're not just a voice in another character's head, approving, disproving, "being there" as placeholder "best friend" or "romantic interest". even the least complex of people are more complex than that, it seems. i think the ultimate "sin" behind mary-suing is also present in making cardboard-cut-out parodies of supporting characters also. everything gets subordinated to the ultimate need for a certain end, a certain dynamic between your favorite characters. you have a goal in mind, and it doesn't -matter- who you use or how, you just use them most expediently. that's probably how ooc-ness happens, sometimes. you lose sight of character in favor of what may be considered "plot".
and even your simplistic cinderella-gets-prince-charming story is also a plot with certain demands. things have to be perfect. in a way, it's a demand of plot. if character wasn't perfect, -ending- and eventual happiness wouldn't be perfect. perfect things happen because perfect people make them happen. or at least that's my guess. if that perfection is achieved by a character we identify with, well then, all the better. this is just a fairy tale, but it's an old one.
let's just forget about "ginny" or "harry" or "ron". there is The Princess. she is awkward and poor and she comes from a large, rumbunctious family. she is meek but secretly vibrant and strong and beautiful. she wants the hero, and he doesn't notice her at first, because she has this pall over her, of ordinariness, which isn't really real. nothing about the Princess is ordinary. even her toenails are extraordinary. the Prince also has a Sidekick. the sidekick will never be as good or kind or brave as the Prince, but he is needed to make the Prince have an outlet for his kindness and adventurous, boyish spirit. the Sidekick is ordinary, and somewhat embarrassingly so. he always misses the Point, and comes in a little bit late. he is good at helping, but in the end, his lack of Heroic Destiny is his downfall, and he just doesn't have that extra bit of something, that magic that lets him pull everything together to save the day. it's sad, but he is usually good-tempered and loyal at heart, even if that's not always obvious to everyone.
hmmm. heheheh i've never actually thought about the similarities between ron & xander in quite this much depth before. it's making me giggle. and awww, xander/willow=ron/hermioneeeeee!! *laughs* and yes, i'm all about xander/willow, dammit. er.
but that's neither here nor there ><;
~~
in other news, the best h/d quote ever (ehehehe!):
I mean, if your plan was to seduce me and get me to turn to the Dark Side, then it's failed. I won't ever do that. But I'll turn to the Dark Side of your ass if it'll get me laid like this all the time.
hee! hee! oh, the things one finds trolling the net for lost links ^^;
thamiris inspires me like nobody's business. sometimes i think i live for this, for this breath of renewal and inspiration, my writing just needs it. something to remind me to stop it with the -fear- and the second-guessing and the self-consciousness and just write fiction as full-on and smeared and whorish and bursting with nouns and similes and adjectives as life itself. *sigh*
~~
and oooooh, just kill me. now. *siiiiigh*
<shipper hysteria>
ahahahaah. did anyone else notice that she said why does everyone think she's still in love with spike?? ahahahah. THE SECRET IS OUT!!!. hee! hee! hee!
</shipper hysteria>
deche has a bit of one, and quire posted some today, too. they are just... well. they hit the spot, let us just say. and see, it's not that i need the boy-crushing to be -happy-. it's perfectly fine being unrequited and messed up and completely insane, even. most people write angsty angst, but see, when i was 15, my angst was extremely dorky. i was like pippi longstocking, except really not popular. i was like brian, from `my so-called life', except not as social. i was like, that dork that sips the chocolate milk at the farthest corner of the lunch table.
and it's not to say that teen angst is inconsequential or funny somehow. actually, i think all angst is funny. it's hilarious. there's this whole range of humor that is all about how fucked up life is, and how stupid we are, and how ridiculous our expectations of ourselves and others are, and just how nothing ever goes our way because 99.9% of humanity is made up of complete losers.
er. not to say they're not lovable, beautiful, "special" losers (ehehhehe). but. black humor is my bag, baby. i was actually wondering where to classify `contrition' under my recs. humor or drama? i mean, it's kind of black (really black) humor, but i think most people clicking on it intending to giggle and laugh, wouldn't get what they asked for. so it went under drama.
anyway. i love stories that make me think, and shiver, and feel, yes. but i have a special, really really huge soft spot for stories that make me laugh at myself and at humanity and at our shared inane dorkiness. sometimes i think this is why i like ginny. sort of because i think she's this really huge dork.
~~
revelation: looking for the second or third time at aspen's ginny shrine, i realized something. it snuck up on me, it did. i don't know HOW this happened. it's mind-boggling and vaguely disturbing. or not. anyway.
let's just say it. let's just.
I LOVE GINNY WEASLEY TOO!!
*mad laughter*
i still don't love ron. i'm beginning to like ron, but love? it ain't never gonna be love, bebeh. but ok. i think i love ginny more than hermione. secretly, i'm more like ginny than hermione, ahahahah. are y'all surprised?? 'tis true. i have thus far disliked ginny for two reasons: a) people who want to make her into cinderella either with harry because he's The Hero she wants, or with draco because they think... well, what aja said-- though then there are the people who want to pair her with tom/bill/percy/ron/etc. (but let's not go into that); and b) people who make her into their little personal avatar.
on the one hand, i think it's a valid reason to want to write a character or to have affection for a character because you identify with them. this happens all the time with people, and is just part of reading, to me anyway. (a blatant example in this little corner of the fandom would be all the people who identify heavily with either hermione or draco). sort of like liking or disliking a character for whatever reason is usually considered okay. of course, forcing the story in any direction because you want the character to get what you think she wants, or alternatively, to suffer, is where the questionableness comes in. i would personally never do that with any character, simply because i don't see the point. i -have- written one fic that was mostly symbolically autobiographical, though i don't think anyone but me would ever know, simply because of how symbolic it was. naturally, this also means it probably doesn't make much -sense- to anyone but me, but still, it was a definite projection of self onto something that should be "just a character", but the lines between "self" and "character" are always fuzzy for me anyway. i mean, i'm not draco, but i draw upon emotions and thoughts that i understand on some level, at least, in order to write him, otherwise i just -couldn't-, if he was a complete cipher. and in a way, anyone who's not a cipher is in some way a part of me.
actually, i've -written- ginny. several times now. i think i have a better grip on her than on hermione or ron or possibly even draco. i can dig ginny. it's a shameful (or maybe not-so-shameful) thing. i can -understand- ginny, i'm pretty sure. she's isn't hard to understand, true, but i can certainly do it. i have a bit of most characters (in hp anyway) in me, because they're so archetypical (ahahahah y'all might disagree, but that's just how i see it). but. ginny.
yes. i like ginny as long as it's ... not a "happy weasley family" or a "star-crossed meant-to-be couple" thing. first of all, i like -individuals-, not families. families, when so horribly large and group-like, squick me. my own largish (though thankfully, not immediate) family squicks me. i am biased and antisocial and get all these look-alike freaks away from me!!
i think i was taking out my dislike for groups, similarity, cliques, frothy victorian-type romances and ooc draco-worship out on ginny, poor girl. i don't like "the weasley". as if all of them are part of this.... "thing". this over-arching... thing. hair, personality, what have you. it frightens me, man. it frightens me. i like individualism to the point of insanity, and it's like-- gah. i even have a slight fetish for incest-fic, i just cannot transfer onto weasleycest because it's not -just- incest, it's like... complete mind-wiping. the mirror aspect is so played up (in my head) that i feel sick. y'know, red. red, red, red. red everywhere. aaaaaaaargh!
then again, i'm an only child, so ><;;
i like tragic!ginny. i like independent!ginny. i like obsessed!ginny. i like misguided!ginny. i like almost any ginny as long as she's not defined by a) being a weasley or b) being harry's (or anyone's) girlfriend. i'd pair her with hermione or some other girl except i don't like any other girl besides hermione (i mean, ok pansy, but....but... that's pansy!! geez. ginny deserves someone who wasn't described as a pug-faced stupid slytherin.)
and of course, hermione is with ron. for two reasons. a) i think hermione's probably straight (and if she wasn't, she wouldn't be bi, she'd be this butch lesbian, but canonically, she likes ron, so there goes that); b) hermione can't be with harry. again, i would be ok with her being alone (i'm ok with -anyone- being alone except possibly harry, because awww, w00bie, he needs someone to loff him, eheheh, and also ron, since he -really- needs people, i think). i like a lot of people better alone (another big example would be snape). anyway, hermione can't be with harry (to me) because um... he's taken (eheheh), and also... hmm. i dunno. it's too... tame. i can't see it. i mean, they're friends. i know i go on about how friends can always be lovers... but if there's no passion, and it's all calm and clear-skies and stuff, i mean... why mess with that? i can see it. they'd be such good "companions". they'd be like an old married couple after two weeks... not in a good way. in that really staid, complacent way. and then harry would snap. because in my head, harry always snaps, ehehe. and hermione wouldn't know what to do. because y'know... ron snaps all the time, but it's not -serious- so she could just ignore it and be "tough" like she -should-. but with harry, that wouldn't work. so i dunno.
and gah, i hope this doesn't make anyone start explaining the glory of h/hr to me. heh. i'm just here to talk about the weasleys. one thing at a time.
~~
so. reading `beneath you', yet another fic where ron is a jealous irrational git who's making harry choose draco over him. i realized i felt bad-- not because it's a cliche, but just because i feel disappointed in ron. he could do so much better. he doesn't -have- to be unlikeable, does he? aren't we the ones who refuse to give him any love even as draco gets redeemed in fic after fic (though not as yet believably).
yes, we know he had issues being jealous of harry and he hates malfoy. conversely, -malfoy- has issues being jealous of harry and hating ron. in an h/d fic, let's assume they both also don't hate harry.
he doesn't have to behave always like he only cares about himself. he doesn't -have- to make the same mistake as in fourth year. why do so many people insist on making him pick his pride over harry? i don't think he'd just -accept- it (especially not because hermione said so). still, the alternative is hardly complete rejection.
also, i think harry would be hard-pressed to pick malfoy over ron. i mean, i know it's supposed to be a romance, but if you think about it, harry is v. loyal. he picked ron over malfoy before, and that was before at least 4 years of friendship.
he's like a brother to harry, and that's more important to him than a normal person, even, considering. and yet, the only story i can think of where harry chooses ron (even though the choosing itself is ridiculous) is `unthinkable thoughts', which was being -really- over-the-top about it & it wasn't so much ron as harry's insecurities.
harry is probably unsure of draco, still harboring resentment, even. and yet, he's always completely lost any rapport with ron, often so much so that we don't know exactly -why- they're best friends except by force of habit.
ron sometimes acquiesces, grudgingly accepts that harry is dead-set on draco, but he never really -tries- to do anything to understand or dissuade him or.... oh, i don't know.
i think part of the process of writing and getting to know characters is finding you have some sort of affection and relationship with each one of them. once you breach that boundary of first knowledge, everything seems different. it's like they're suddenly -real- for the first time. they're not just a voice in another character's head, approving, disproving, "being there" as placeholder "best friend" or "romantic interest". even the least complex of people are more complex than that, it seems. i think the ultimate "sin" behind mary-suing is also present in making cardboard-cut-out parodies of supporting characters also. everything gets subordinated to the ultimate need for a certain end, a certain dynamic between your favorite characters. you have a goal in mind, and it doesn't -matter- who you use or how, you just use them most expediently. that's probably how ooc-ness happens, sometimes. you lose sight of character in favor of what may be considered "plot".
and even your simplistic cinderella-gets-prince-charming story is also a plot with certain demands. things have to be perfect. in a way, it's a demand of plot. if character wasn't perfect, -ending- and eventual happiness wouldn't be perfect. perfect things happen because perfect people make them happen. or at least that's my guess. if that perfection is achieved by a character we identify with, well then, all the better. this is just a fairy tale, but it's an old one.
let's just forget about "ginny" or "harry" or "ron". there is The Princess. she is awkward and poor and she comes from a large, rumbunctious family. she is meek but secretly vibrant and strong and beautiful. she wants the hero, and he doesn't notice her at first, because she has this pall over her, of ordinariness, which isn't really real. nothing about the Princess is ordinary. even her toenails are extraordinary. the Prince also has a Sidekick. the sidekick will never be as good or kind or brave as the Prince, but he is needed to make the Prince have an outlet for his kindness and adventurous, boyish spirit. the Sidekick is ordinary, and somewhat embarrassingly so. he always misses the Point, and comes in a little bit late. he is good at helping, but in the end, his lack of Heroic Destiny is his downfall, and he just doesn't have that extra bit of something, that magic that lets him pull everything together to save the day. it's sad, but he is usually good-tempered and loyal at heart, even if that's not always obvious to everyone.
hmmm. heheheh i've never actually thought about the similarities between ron & xander in quite this much depth before. it's making me giggle. and awww, xander/willow=ron/hermioneeeeee!! *laughs* and yes, i'm all about xander/willow, dammit. er.
but that's neither here nor there ><;
~~
in other news, the best h/d quote ever (ehehehe!):
I mean, if your plan was to seduce me and get me to turn to the Dark Side, then it's failed. I won't ever do that. But I'll turn to the Dark Side of your ass if it'll get me laid like this all the time.
hee! hee! oh, the things one finds trolling the net for lost links ^^;
thamiris inspires me like nobody's business. sometimes i think i live for this, for this breath of renewal and inspiration, my writing just needs it. something to remind me to stop it with the -fear- and the second-guessing and the self-consciousness and just write fiction as full-on and smeared and whorish and bursting with nouns and similes and adjectives as life itself. *sigh*~~
and oooooh, just kill me. now. *siiiiigh*
<shipper hysteria>
ahahahaah. did anyone else notice that she said why does everyone think she's still in love with spike?? ahahahah. THE SECRET IS OUT!!!. hee! hee! hee!
</shipper hysteria>
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no subject
Date: 2003-02-11 07:16 pm (UTC)I didn't know that site was Aspen's, and here I've been worshipping it from afar for ages now. :)
So glad to hear someone else defend Ginny! (And coherently. *grin* My defence usually consists of 'be nice to her or I'll eat you'!) I as usual am not up to explaining why I adore her so much, though anyone who's following
no subject
Date: 2003-02-11 07:55 pm (UTC)on the other hand, people sic her on harry and/or draco (or ron!!) and that just...ergh.
then again, people have their pet peeves. a whole -lot- of people hate draco, don't they. also, i've heard some people really don't like harry.
everyone needs a target ^^;;
hee! but thanks~:D
*glows*~:)