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reenkathere is something deeply wrong that the most in-character fic i can think of that features graphic harry/draco sex is.... tada! `tickle me pink' by durendal! ahahahaah. you may think i'm kidding, but i'm so, so not. seriously. yes. oh yes. i mean, YES. and i don't mean that in a "yes, yes, oh baby" sort of way (ahahaha well, if you'd read the fic you'd know why), but like. yes. i have -such- a messed-up view of them, obviously. ahahahaha.
i think this explains why i find gentle loving touches and "sensual explorations of budding sexuality" to be hilarious to the point of like, -pain-, ahahahah. this is funny and wrong and sexy and lame and frenzied and insane and did i mention really wrong?? that's what i love about it. because face it, malfoy and harry having sex would feel really really wrong to them, at first. somehow. someway. does anyone know what i mean?? i mean, right, really right but really wrong also. and not in that angsty way that makes you depressed and weepy, no. in that way where you're like, "ohmygod, i'm fucking insane, but DO THAT AGAIN". hee!
i don't know -why- i've been stumbling across so many "loving erotic encounter" fics lately, but they're really making me barfy. *laughs* this is why i'm -not- reading harlequins, you see. this is why i'm not reading run-of-the-mill het. this is why i `ship two people who can't stand each other. it's -not- because i think they're made for walks under moonlight and gentle kisses. although. i mean. ok. but it'd be weird. it'd be surreal. it would not be ... -sappy-. or "erotically sensual". i -hate- that. you can -tell- a girl wrote that. sensual?? sensual??!
well... i don't mean there's a limit on who can be sensual. kittens, 15-year-old boys, old ladies-- it's human. but when you go out of your way to be sensual on purpose, that's another thing. i'm remembering silvia's fluff fic, with the wrist rubbing. yes. that works. it's unplanned. it's an accident. it... just happens.
and that's what i want. i want things to "just happen". what would happen, if things just went 100% natural, no newfound aggression, no newfound tenderness, no newfound need to submit. a struggle and friction that is still somewhat subtle. i think yes, throwing the other against walls and floors is realistic. but i actually think you'd need to build up to that, too-- not that you don't need to build up to -any- of it. damn. so complicated.
one of my (admittedly low-brow) goals in my h/d research (also known as the Quest for Bigger Better Smut) is to figure out and implement that elusive thing i'd call "in-character sex". so i wanted to ask what you all thought it would be. i don't think i know.
but take purely-in-character draco and purely-in-character harry in their fifth (or if you -really- want, sixth) year. make them fuck. what would they do? how would they act? (this would be the equivalent of me trying to extrapolate the conversation ron and harry would have if harry decided to `come out').
this isn't very easy for me personally to visualize. i've read resolution, `after the flood', luw, power play, commencement, nancy's mpi smutlet-- all of them in-character for their unique twist on the potterverse characterization. this is also very important and difficult-- staying true to your own characterization, obviously.
but what if there was no twist? i just want to see that. i don't think i have. if i thought it'd help, i'd say this was a challenge, but it's not, really. just a question.
deidre's fic made sense to me-- in a humorous sort of way. they're 15. not teenage sex gods. not experienced. not sensitive. not (most likely) gentle. harry though, isn't exactly mr Macho Man. neither is draco. neither seems all -that- given to physical violence. a lot of fics rely on it (like the new-and-much-recced `the worst happiest day of his life'). but i think canonically, draco is a chicken. a limp noodle. all bark no bite. at least, he's no wildcat, let's just say that. he's arrogant, he's full of himself (or rather, full of shit), but he needs goons to be tough.
harry, on the other hand, isn't violent either, but for different reasons. he may get mad, but he wouldn't hit draco unless draco hit him first, i'm pretty sure. and draco would -not- hit him first.
although, going along this "they're teenage dorks" sort of path, `seeker to seeker' went too far. harry isn't -that- insensitive. he is still getting crushes and blushes and he stammers around those he's attracted to.
so it would be a crush. okay then.
but i've danced around the issue of the actual sex so far. what would it be like? i don't mean, blowjobs vs rimming vs kink vs handjobs. i mean-- just-- atmosphere. attitude.
angry? tentative? what would they be like? i mean, ok, they jump each other, brains shut down, the end? instinct takes over? like magic?
sounds suspicious. i guess i'm just saying, i don't see erotic fruit games and licking wine off nipples or soft endearments happening.
i see groping and being mortified and being pushy and annoyed and overwhelmed and trying not to be vulnerable but failing but still trying not to be. probably coming too fast, probably not kissing and hugging quite so much (and damn, it hurts like hell to say that, because honestly, i adore the kissing and cuddling and sleeping together and all that jazz).
they may kiss, but not like-- er-- well. not like in romance novels, i guess. i mean, too many of us are writing romance novels. which are great, i love them (mmm, trash romance). but, it's not that i'm calling for gritty realism, here. or even less bodice-ripping (mmmmmm, bodice-ripping....)
depends what sort of bodice-ripping. the type where you're impatient and horny and frantic is fine. the type where you're some sort of romantic hero sweeping someone off their feet is not fine, basically.
all in all, i'm grumpy because i feel silly, like i'm wasting my time even more than usual, reading about how draco is this erotically sensual love-god of slytherin, and how he knows just how to touch harry, and this is their 7th year or whatever. being preternaturally mutually attracted is perfectly normal, in my happy little world. sure, they can come just looking into each other's eyes, sure. they're teenage boys, eheheheh. but. seriously. no wine. no fruit. no gay sex section in the library to fill harry in on the finer points.
i wonder why the fruit thing got me like that. it's not like i hate fruit. i can see the strategic uses of fruit at breakfast. i can see harry deep-throating ice-cream-- he seems cute like that. just not ice-cream dribbling and hot wax and like... yah. i'll shut up now ><;;
~~
in other news. well. er. if you know my taste in fic... well, i don't know who "knows", but anyway... one of the most blatant opinions i have is my immediate negative reaction to `all torn down'. i think i just overreact to the handling of certain issues to the point where it became a rallying cry that fics not be like `all torn down'. i don't hate it or anything-- that's a weird emotion to feel for a fic, but it's gotten some really long-winded reviews from me on ff.net. a -lot- of people rec it and read it and like it, and i just have issues with it, but find it very readable and involving.
anyway. i find it very amusing that obake wrote me this lengthy email where she like, explained everything. everything i had issues with, she did at least partly on purpose, and is aware of what she's doing. that just seriously boggles my mind. i'm impressed, but it also makes me think of just how much stuff writers can pack into their stories, and just how divergent reader reactions can be, whether you write it consciously or unconsciously.
like, the famous example being the conscious use of h/d subtext in the draco trilogy. as many people see it, equally many -don't-. some of those many i consider a) intelligent; b) perceptive readers; and all are c) slashers. i'm amazed that even perceptive readers, who pay as much attention as they could, would totally misinterpret an author's intent like that. on the other hand, doesn't this come down to authorial skill? if you really meant to have it mean something other than the obvious, shouldn't you give clues? obake seemed to think that merely -having- those things would be enough of a clue, rather than hinting at reasons. and usually, i'm all about show-don't-tell, so what's the hold up?
this all comes down to authorial intent, of course. does it make it ok, that you didn't mean it that way? should i, as a reader, read differently post-factum, somehow? i don't know. i might respect the author more, but would i enjoy the fic more? no.
i should remember unreliability of narrators and not everything being as it seems and so on and so forth, but... i suppose i'm used to -thinking- and having some sort of opinion and reaction to things immediately, rather than only at the end, after everything is said and done. naturally, a fic gains a whole new perspective after the end, and all the threads have come together and you can see the "whole picture"... but hopefully it's a continuation of themes, a resolution rather than a departure.
the simple fact remains, i can and do judge books by the first page/paragraph/sentence/what have you. most often, i'm not disappointed midway, and if i do stop from boredom, i was forcing myself from the beginning anyway. a novel does gain greater depth and complexity by the end, seeing it whole in hindsight, but the pure -enjoyment- of it doesn't seem to depend on that complexity and depth. it's just another -layer-, but i don't think it's the strongest one. do we remember how we felt -as- we read or afterwards? for me, it differs with the book somewhat, but mostly i remember my pleasure at reading. to me, it's about the process. my favorite books are, of course, equally spell-binding and smooth and convincing first sentence to last, but that happens very rarely. usually, i would say the overall experience had been better than the eventual revelations i got. any large book/series i can think of outside a very select few, the ending/resolution was anticlimactic more often than not, and didn't satisfy so much as... complete.
in hp fanfic, there are few h/d novels (my area of so-called expertise) that come to a satisfying conclusion. in fact, i would seriously claim there are none that truly made me feel like, yes, this has fulfilled itself. i have a feeling `two lost souls' did that, but ehehehe my avoidance of amalin's scary deathfic knows no bounds, apparently. actually, i think `dragonweed' was satisfying, but honestly, that is such an abstract fic that a largely metaphorical conclusion totally worked the way it wouldn't in many other fics. now, `after the flood' fucking rocked hardcore in its ending. seriously. now -that's- how it should be done. woo-hoo! of course, most people can't easily attain that level of dexterity at structure and pacing, because it was nearly perfect. but oh well, it wasn't a novel (maybe a novelette though).
i'm just strange. i don't consider death to be a satisfying conclusion (usually), so that's out in most cases. "and then they kissed" just leaves me feeling hollow. wrapping things up and tallying everything makes me slightly nauseous (and he did this, and she did that, and that guy felt this and the other guy felt something else, and then they all went to get ice-cream, and eventually got married and had 3 babies which went to france. gaaaah!! - and yes, i didn't like `the lodger' nearly as much as other people because of its ending, though it fit the fic i guess.)
anyway. i'm not as picky as i sound. what i was saying was, most people suck at endings, but that doesn't mean i don't love their work, and basically it's the process that counts, to me.
but i'm just pleasantly surprised to find that wow, people can do these things i cry bloody murder at for conscious, premeditated reasons that are in no way apparent at the time, but might be clear later (supposedly). i was all, "but he'd never do that!!" and she said, "you're right, he wouldn't, he's just doing -this- and it only -looks- like that". which, you know, is cool. she's probably the only person who made draco call harry "dear" because of hidden motives. that's cool. but it still squicked me. should i use my godlike knowledge of authorial intent to now feel better and less squicked? does that make it a better fic (to me)? weird questions, aren't they?
~~
and. ivy's animated version of `origins' chapter 1 just killed me. ahahaha. <3~!
i think this explains why i find gentle loving touches and "sensual explorations of budding sexuality" to be hilarious to the point of like, -pain-, ahahahah. this is funny and wrong and sexy and lame and frenzied and insane and did i mention really wrong?? that's what i love about it. because face it, malfoy and harry having sex would feel really really wrong to them, at first. somehow. someway. does anyone know what i mean?? i mean, right, really right but really wrong also. and not in that angsty way that makes you depressed and weepy, no. in that way where you're like, "ohmygod, i'm fucking insane, but DO THAT AGAIN". hee!
i don't know -why- i've been stumbling across so many "loving erotic encounter" fics lately, but they're really making me barfy. *laughs* this is why i'm -not- reading harlequins, you see. this is why i'm not reading run-of-the-mill het. this is why i `ship two people who can't stand each other. it's -not- because i think they're made for walks under moonlight and gentle kisses. although. i mean. ok. but it'd be weird. it'd be surreal. it would not be ... -sappy-. or "erotically sensual". i -hate- that. you can -tell- a girl wrote that. sensual?? sensual??!
well... i don't mean there's a limit on who can be sensual. kittens, 15-year-old boys, old ladies-- it's human. but when you go out of your way to be sensual on purpose, that's another thing. i'm remembering silvia's fluff fic, with the wrist rubbing. yes. that works. it's unplanned. it's an accident. it... just happens.
and that's what i want. i want things to "just happen". what would happen, if things just went 100% natural, no newfound aggression, no newfound tenderness, no newfound need to submit. a struggle and friction that is still somewhat subtle. i think yes, throwing the other against walls and floors is realistic. but i actually think you'd need to build up to that, too-- not that you don't need to build up to -any- of it. damn. so complicated.
one of my (admittedly low-brow) goals in my h/d research (also known as the Quest for Bigger Better Smut) is to figure out and implement that elusive thing i'd call "in-character sex". so i wanted to ask what you all thought it would be. i don't think i know.
but take purely-in-character draco and purely-in-character harry in their fifth (or if you -really- want, sixth) year. make them fuck. what would they do? how would they act? (this would be the equivalent of me trying to extrapolate the conversation ron and harry would have if harry decided to `come out').
this isn't very easy for me personally to visualize. i've read resolution, `after the flood', luw, power play, commencement, nancy's mpi smutlet-- all of them in-character for their unique twist on the potterverse characterization. this is also very important and difficult-- staying true to your own characterization, obviously.
but what if there was no twist? i just want to see that. i don't think i have. if i thought it'd help, i'd say this was a challenge, but it's not, really. just a question.
deidre's fic made sense to me-- in a humorous sort of way. they're 15. not teenage sex gods. not experienced. not sensitive. not (most likely) gentle. harry though, isn't exactly mr Macho Man. neither is draco. neither seems all -that- given to physical violence. a lot of fics rely on it (like the new-and-much-recced `the worst happiest day of his life'). but i think canonically, draco is a chicken. a limp noodle. all bark no bite. at least, he's no wildcat, let's just say that. he's arrogant, he's full of himself (or rather, full of shit), but he needs goons to be tough.
harry, on the other hand, isn't violent either, but for different reasons. he may get mad, but he wouldn't hit draco unless draco hit him first, i'm pretty sure. and draco would -not- hit him first.
although, going along this "they're teenage dorks" sort of path, `seeker to seeker' went too far. harry isn't -that- insensitive. he is still getting crushes and blushes and he stammers around those he's attracted to.
so it would be a crush. okay then.
but i've danced around the issue of the actual sex so far. what would it be like? i don't mean, blowjobs vs rimming vs kink vs handjobs. i mean-- just-- atmosphere. attitude.
angry? tentative? what would they be like? i mean, ok, they jump each other, brains shut down, the end? instinct takes over? like magic?
sounds suspicious. i guess i'm just saying, i don't see erotic fruit games and licking wine off nipples or soft endearments happening.
i see groping and being mortified and being pushy and annoyed and overwhelmed and trying not to be vulnerable but failing but still trying not to be. probably coming too fast, probably not kissing and hugging quite so much (and damn, it hurts like hell to say that, because honestly, i adore the kissing and cuddling and sleeping together and all that jazz).
they may kiss, but not like-- er-- well. not like in romance novels, i guess. i mean, too many of us are writing romance novels. which are great, i love them (mmm, trash romance). but, it's not that i'm calling for gritty realism, here. or even less bodice-ripping (mmmmmm, bodice-ripping....)
depends what sort of bodice-ripping. the type where you're impatient and horny and frantic is fine. the type where you're some sort of romantic hero sweeping someone off their feet is not fine, basically.
all in all, i'm grumpy because i feel silly, like i'm wasting my time even more than usual, reading about how draco is this erotically sensual love-god of slytherin, and how he knows just how to touch harry, and this is their 7th year or whatever. being preternaturally mutually attracted is perfectly normal, in my happy little world. sure, they can come just looking into each other's eyes, sure. they're teenage boys, eheheheh. but. seriously. no wine. no fruit. no gay sex section in the library to fill harry in on the finer points.
i wonder why the fruit thing got me like that. it's not like i hate fruit. i can see the strategic uses of fruit at breakfast. i can see harry deep-throating ice-cream-- he seems cute like that. just not ice-cream dribbling and hot wax and like... yah. i'll shut up now ><;;
~~
in other news. well. er. if you know my taste in fic... well, i don't know who "knows", but anyway... one of the most blatant opinions i have is my immediate negative reaction to `all torn down'. i think i just overreact to the handling of certain issues to the point where it became a rallying cry that fics not be like `all torn down'. i don't hate it or anything-- that's a weird emotion to feel for a fic, but it's gotten some really long-winded reviews from me on ff.net. a -lot- of people rec it and read it and like it, and i just have issues with it, but find it very readable and involving.
anyway. i find it very amusing that obake wrote me this lengthy email where she like, explained everything. everything i had issues with, she did at least partly on purpose, and is aware of what she's doing. that just seriously boggles my mind. i'm impressed, but it also makes me think of just how much stuff writers can pack into their stories, and just how divergent reader reactions can be, whether you write it consciously or unconsciously.
like, the famous example being the conscious use of h/d subtext in the draco trilogy. as many people see it, equally many -don't-. some of those many i consider a) intelligent; b) perceptive readers; and all are c) slashers. i'm amazed that even perceptive readers, who pay as much attention as they could, would totally misinterpret an author's intent like that. on the other hand, doesn't this come down to authorial skill? if you really meant to have it mean something other than the obvious, shouldn't you give clues? obake seemed to think that merely -having- those things would be enough of a clue, rather than hinting at reasons. and usually, i'm all about show-don't-tell, so what's the hold up?
this all comes down to authorial intent, of course. does it make it ok, that you didn't mean it that way? should i, as a reader, read differently post-factum, somehow? i don't know. i might respect the author more, but would i enjoy the fic more? no.
i should remember unreliability of narrators and not everything being as it seems and so on and so forth, but... i suppose i'm used to -thinking- and having some sort of opinion and reaction to things immediately, rather than only at the end, after everything is said and done. naturally, a fic gains a whole new perspective after the end, and all the threads have come together and you can see the "whole picture"... but hopefully it's a continuation of themes, a resolution rather than a departure.
the simple fact remains, i can and do judge books by the first page/paragraph/sentence/what have you. most often, i'm not disappointed midway, and if i do stop from boredom, i was forcing myself from the beginning anyway. a novel does gain greater depth and complexity by the end, seeing it whole in hindsight, but the pure -enjoyment- of it doesn't seem to depend on that complexity and depth. it's just another -layer-, but i don't think it's the strongest one. do we remember how we felt -as- we read or afterwards? for me, it differs with the book somewhat, but mostly i remember my pleasure at reading. to me, it's about the process. my favorite books are, of course, equally spell-binding and smooth and convincing first sentence to last, but that happens very rarely. usually, i would say the overall experience had been better than the eventual revelations i got. any large book/series i can think of outside a very select few, the ending/resolution was anticlimactic more often than not, and didn't satisfy so much as... complete.
in hp fanfic, there are few h/d novels (my area of so-called expertise) that come to a satisfying conclusion. in fact, i would seriously claim there are none that truly made me feel like, yes, this has fulfilled itself. i have a feeling `two lost souls' did that, but ehehehe my avoidance of amalin's scary deathfic knows no bounds, apparently. actually, i think `dragonweed' was satisfying, but honestly, that is such an abstract fic that a largely metaphorical conclusion totally worked the way it wouldn't in many other fics. now, `after the flood' fucking rocked hardcore in its ending. seriously. now -that's- how it should be done. woo-hoo! of course, most people can't easily attain that level of dexterity at structure and pacing, because it was nearly perfect. but oh well, it wasn't a novel (maybe a novelette though).
i'm just strange. i don't consider death to be a satisfying conclusion (usually), so that's out in most cases. "and then they kissed" just leaves me feeling hollow. wrapping things up and tallying everything makes me slightly nauseous (and he did this, and she did that, and that guy felt this and the other guy felt something else, and then they all went to get ice-cream, and eventually got married and had 3 babies which went to france. gaaaah!! - and yes, i didn't like `the lodger' nearly as much as other people because of its ending, though it fit the fic i guess.)
anyway. i'm not as picky as i sound. what i was saying was, most people suck at endings, but that doesn't mean i don't love their work, and basically it's the process that counts, to me.
but i'm just pleasantly surprised to find that wow, people can do these things i cry bloody murder at for conscious, premeditated reasons that are in no way apparent at the time, but might be clear later (supposedly). i was all, "but he'd never do that!!" and she said, "you're right, he wouldn't, he's just doing -this- and it only -looks- like that". which, you know, is cool. she's probably the only person who made draco call harry "dear" because of hidden motives. that's cool. but it still squicked me. should i use my godlike knowledge of authorial intent to now feel better and less squicked? does that make it a better fic (to me)? weird questions, aren't they?
~~
and. ivy's animated version of `origins' chapter 1 just killed me. ahahaha. <3~!
