![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaas far as everybody (it seems) getting bored with hp, the "little boys" fandom, and going for smallville and highlander and so on.... because they have "real men". with depth and character and muscles....
i wonder how many in the hp fandom are in it because they -want- the characters to be boys, to be inexperienced dorks, ciphers to make into what you wish, not so much people as ideas. i mean, i know -i- want that. i know -i- enjoy reading young adult fantasy more than serious adult drama, most of the time. something about that whole "real men" and "serious adult [sexual] drama" makes me think of actual -fiction-, actual stuff you're supposed to find in published books, when you expect quality and maturity and meditation on existence or something.
this is the weird thing with harry potter books, because -everyone- read them (well, except me, at the time anyway). people who don't read fantasy, people who don't read YA fantasy, people who actively -dislike- fics about wizards, people who dislike harry, whether in practice or archetype, etc etc. and then there's this question of why do people write fanfic at all. i think a large enough percentage of writers in any fandom find it easier to write fanfic than original fic. and i can see where they're coming from, though i never found that to be true for myself, because i rarely understand anyone's world as well as i do my own. of course, this is actually a good thing in a way, because i tend to make more effort to figure out the characters i'm writing about, and thus end up with more fleshed out characters. but i always go for the easy thing, usually, and fanfic ain't easy.
anyway, i imagine that the people for whom fanfic is a natural writerly response to a book/show/world they like would get bored with the potterverse soon enough. it does have its limitations, and the characters are only as fascinating as you make them with your blood and sweat, so to speak. personally, i -like- the limitations, the archetypal nature of the characters, because it makes it easier for me to write. i can't seem to write about deep, complex characters-- i can barely keep these ciphers in-character, forget characters with extensive histories and quirks and the body-language of the actors playing them, and the general feel of the series, their voices, their chemistry, everything. the challenge involved would be overwhelming, and i've never loved -any- show enough to bother trying. after all, the show is already -there-, why do -i- need to add to it?
while, since jkr's writing is so spare (not to say bad), there's an obvious need to add to it. since her characters are children, and strongly archetypal to boot, it's fun to mold them, have them grow up in ways you want them to. i find i can't really get excited over exploring a mature character that's already coming pre-made with a history, a long series of relationships, set habits and so on.
so basically, the truth is, if i'm not writing hp, i'm out. i'm out of all fandom. which might be a good thing, of course. but i can't see myself finding anything else after this, though i constantly get enamoured with new books and series and such. i just feel-- different. like, a different sort of fan, a different sort of fanfic writer. i've -tried- writing for other fandoms, a little. i suck really, really, really bad. so maybe there are different sort of fanfic writers. maybe there are some who find this one fandom that inspires them, and they've never written it before but they -have- to now. and then there are the majority, who seem to just get inspired by things, and find it easy and natural to play with other people's concepts until the inspiration runs dry and they turn to the next thing that drives them to create.
funny thing is, hp canon itself doesn't drive me to create at all. i'm basically writing fanfic because of other fanfic. somehow, i saw a thread binding all of them, and i fell in love with the fanon versions of the characters, and they began to live in my head. but it's not because they're -mature- or -male- or -hot-. it's just because they're like, a part of me, i can see myself in harry & draco & hermione, and that's basically why i can write them. i'm the furthest thing from a grown man. in fact, i'm not that much of a grown -woman-. i can't do realism all that well, so hogwarts suits me very well. i have no clue about how to write for action-based shows, or how to write about weathered warriors and lost chances and regret and harshness. i can write clueless!harry and angsty!draco and first love and dorky lust and boys being silly, because i can totally understand that.
i mean, i dunno, there must be different modes of writing. either that, or lots of people actually do understand methos and snape and lionel luthor and picard and spock for that matter. i know myself well enough to know that i don't. i may think they're -hot-, but they're mysteries to me. i can't just write them because they're hot and manly. i mean, it would just be horrid, horrid fiction. i can't even really understand -clark kent-, or maybe i don't want to. harry is squeaky-clean enough for me, thankyouverymuch. i'm nothing like clark kent. nothing. how can i write him?? and who the fuck CARES if he's hot? what kind of criteria is that for writing about characters??! ok, smut, maybe. but that's ridiculous, why call him clark kent, then?
i don't write about draco malfoy because he's a gorgeous stud-- in fact, i don't like blonds. and no, i don't even like his personality all that much, even though he's kinda cute and dorky and stupid and mean and that's sort of adorable. if silvia does it, anyway. and harry. i mean, he's got nothing on tim hunter, and he's not all -that- interesting, and even though dan radcliffe is hot (ahem), it doesn't really enter into why i want to write about him. they are archetypes, and i've always written about archetypes, always used fairy-tales and symbols and the Prince and the Anti-hero, in my head anyway. hot or not, it matters little. i mean, if i created character X, would i care if she/he was hot? no. why does it matter that the characters we write about are hot? i mean, i do have the draco luurve, but.... it's weird anyway. sigh.
maybe there's a difference here between what one wants to read and what one wants to -write-. naturally, it's more pleasant (in theory) to read about hot guys getting it on without all that stupid stubborn immaturity getting in the way. well... i -did- used to read obi-wan/qui-gon and kim/paris and almost anything that wasn't rps or cop-show drama or buffy (don't tread on my otp, heh) that seemed fun. personally, like i said, i read YA fantasy a lot, so that's what gives me the biggest happy. highlander is a show i enjoy, but i don't adore it, because it's mostly an action/adventure show without any particular character i either identify with or find impossibly fascinating. i love buffy, but i can't write spuffy, really, without watching a lot more of the old episodes, and i don't need to, because a) there's a lot of good fic out there if i went het; b) the show is good enough. plus the world (sunnydale) isn't really my oeuvre. i mean, suburban california? vampires? argh.
smallville... wah. i can't write in a world made of americana -and- melodrama -and- scifi -and- have the "normal" boy!alien doing it with a mostly-mature guy with all sorts of father issues. wah. a whole big foreign kettle of fish. and i don't deny it-- lex is hot. but i'd have to have something to -say-, something about smallville and clark that was a part of me, that spoke deeply to me, because that's where my fiction comes from, from my subconscious, most of the time. i can just craft a story, force it and do it because i -can-, but what's the point?
that's my thing with say, lotr rps, too. do i know these people? no. do i want to know these people? no. do they seem cute and slashy? yes. but so what? am i so bored i want to use any example of slashy guys cuddling to jump-start me on smut? i can do smut with my own characters, then. character A would have blondish hair and greenish eyes and character B would have soft brown hair and dimples. presto! instant boylove.
but that's not the point. it's easier to just read smut than write it anyway. it's easier to just not bother. something has to make me bother, in terms of writing. and it's great that for some people, the hotness and slashiness of some actor is reason enough to write-- i mean, any reason is a good reason. it's just not my reason, that's all.
EDIT - i have this sinking feeling that i just managed to sound even more incoherent and silly than usual. ah well. reena's brain is having a fizzy day today, methinks.
i wonder how many in the hp fandom are in it because they -want- the characters to be boys, to be inexperienced dorks, ciphers to make into what you wish, not so much people as ideas. i mean, i know -i- want that. i know -i- enjoy reading young adult fantasy more than serious adult drama, most of the time. something about that whole "real men" and "serious adult [sexual] drama" makes me think of actual -fiction-, actual stuff you're supposed to find in published books, when you expect quality and maturity and meditation on existence or something.
this is the weird thing with harry potter books, because -everyone- read them (well, except me, at the time anyway). people who don't read fantasy, people who don't read YA fantasy, people who actively -dislike- fics about wizards, people who dislike harry, whether in practice or archetype, etc etc. and then there's this question of why do people write fanfic at all. i think a large enough percentage of writers in any fandom find it easier to write fanfic than original fic. and i can see where they're coming from, though i never found that to be true for myself, because i rarely understand anyone's world as well as i do my own. of course, this is actually a good thing in a way, because i tend to make more effort to figure out the characters i'm writing about, and thus end up with more fleshed out characters. but i always go for the easy thing, usually, and fanfic ain't easy.
anyway, i imagine that the people for whom fanfic is a natural writerly response to a book/show/world they like would get bored with the potterverse soon enough. it does have its limitations, and the characters are only as fascinating as you make them with your blood and sweat, so to speak. personally, i -like- the limitations, the archetypal nature of the characters, because it makes it easier for me to write. i can't seem to write about deep, complex characters-- i can barely keep these ciphers in-character, forget characters with extensive histories and quirks and the body-language of the actors playing them, and the general feel of the series, their voices, their chemistry, everything. the challenge involved would be overwhelming, and i've never loved -any- show enough to bother trying. after all, the show is already -there-, why do -i- need to add to it?
while, since jkr's writing is so spare (not to say bad), there's an obvious need to add to it. since her characters are children, and strongly archetypal to boot, it's fun to mold them, have them grow up in ways you want them to. i find i can't really get excited over exploring a mature character that's already coming pre-made with a history, a long series of relationships, set habits and so on.
so basically, the truth is, if i'm not writing hp, i'm out. i'm out of all fandom. which might be a good thing, of course. but i can't see myself finding anything else after this, though i constantly get enamoured with new books and series and such. i just feel-- different. like, a different sort of fan, a different sort of fanfic writer. i've -tried- writing for other fandoms, a little. i suck really, really, really bad. so maybe there are different sort of fanfic writers. maybe there are some who find this one fandom that inspires them, and they've never written it before but they -have- to now. and then there are the majority, who seem to just get inspired by things, and find it easy and natural to play with other people's concepts until the inspiration runs dry and they turn to the next thing that drives them to create.
funny thing is, hp canon itself doesn't drive me to create at all. i'm basically writing fanfic because of other fanfic. somehow, i saw a thread binding all of them, and i fell in love with the fanon versions of the characters, and they began to live in my head. but it's not because they're -mature- or -male- or -hot-. it's just because they're like, a part of me, i can see myself in harry & draco & hermione, and that's basically why i can write them. i'm the furthest thing from a grown man. in fact, i'm not that much of a grown -woman-. i can't do realism all that well, so hogwarts suits me very well. i have no clue about how to write for action-based shows, or how to write about weathered warriors and lost chances and regret and harshness. i can write clueless!harry and angsty!draco and first love and dorky lust and boys being silly, because i can totally understand that.
i mean, i dunno, there must be different modes of writing. either that, or lots of people actually do understand methos and snape and lionel luthor and picard and spock for that matter. i know myself well enough to know that i don't. i may think they're -hot-, but they're mysteries to me. i can't just write them because they're hot and manly. i mean, it would just be horrid, horrid fiction. i can't even really understand -clark kent-, or maybe i don't want to. harry is squeaky-clean enough for me, thankyouverymuch. i'm nothing like clark kent. nothing. how can i write him?? and who the fuck CARES if he's hot? what kind of criteria is that for writing about characters??! ok, smut, maybe. but that's ridiculous, why call him clark kent, then?
i don't write about draco malfoy because he's a gorgeous stud-- in fact, i don't like blonds. and no, i don't even like his personality all that much, even though he's kinda cute and dorky and stupid and mean and that's sort of adorable. if silvia does it, anyway. and harry. i mean, he's got nothing on tim hunter, and he's not all -that- interesting, and even though dan radcliffe is hot (ahem), it doesn't really enter into why i want to write about him. they are archetypes, and i've always written about archetypes, always used fairy-tales and symbols and the Prince and the Anti-hero, in my head anyway. hot or not, it matters little. i mean, if i created character X, would i care if she/he was hot? no. why does it matter that the characters we write about are hot? i mean, i do have the draco luurve, but.... it's weird anyway. sigh.
maybe there's a difference here between what one wants to read and what one wants to -write-. naturally, it's more pleasant (in theory) to read about hot guys getting it on without all that stupid stubborn immaturity getting in the way. well... i -did- used to read obi-wan/qui-gon and kim/paris and almost anything that wasn't rps or cop-show drama or buffy (don't tread on my otp, heh) that seemed fun. personally, like i said, i read YA fantasy a lot, so that's what gives me the biggest happy. highlander is a show i enjoy, but i don't adore it, because it's mostly an action/adventure show without any particular character i either identify with or find impossibly fascinating. i love buffy, but i can't write spuffy, really, without watching a lot more of the old episodes, and i don't need to, because a) there's a lot of good fic out there if i went het; b) the show is good enough. plus the world (sunnydale) isn't really my oeuvre. i mean, suburban california? vampires? argh.
smallville... wah. i can't write in a world made of americana -and- melodrama -and- scifi -and- have the "normal" boy!alien doing it with a mostly-mature guy with all sorts of father issues. wah. a whole big foreign kettle of fish. and i don't deny it-- lex is hot. but i'd have to have something to -say-, something about smallville and clark that was a part of me, that spoke deeply to me, because that's where my fiction comes from, from my subconscious, most of the time. i can just craft a story, force it and do it because i -can-, but what's the point?
that's my thing with say, lotr rps, too. do i know these people? no. do i want to know these people? no. do they seem cute and slashy? yes. but so what? am i so bored i want to use any example of slashy guys cuddling to jump-start me on smut? i can do smut with my own characters, then. character A would have blondish hair and greenish eyes and character B would have soft brown hair and dimples. presto! instant boylove.
but that's not the point. it's easier to just read smut than write it anyway. it's easier to just not bother. something has to make me bother, in terms of writing. and it's great that for some people, the hotness and slashiness of some actor is reason enough to write-- i mean, any reason is a good reason. it's just not my reason, that's all.
EDIT - i have this sinking feeling that i just managed to sound even more incoherent and silly than usual. ah well. reena's brain is having a fizzy day today, methinks.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-01-23 03:36 pm (UTC)Even though you say you don't like to read 'deep' and 'adult', I know you for the liar. *g* I don't write shallow or kiddie, and you read what I write.
Ok, now about the 'hot' thing. There are different sorts of fans as well as different sorts of writers. Some people are fans because X is v v HOT. Some people are fans because X person is a wonderful actor or X person is intriguing. Some people who only see the shiny exterior of X can somehow translate that into a fictional world where Clark is a very deep and textured guy. Mainly, though, they write about him giving Lex blowjobs. Since there are just as many types of audience, there is room for all those types.
but i'd have to have something to -say-, something about smallville and clark that was a part of me, that spoke deeply to me, because that's where my fiction comes from, from my subconscious, most of the time
Well, that's a good thing. Why do you even care about SV anyway? What got up your ass about this? *g* I think HP is much much more fun than SV.
no subject
Date: 2003-01-23 03:56 pm (UTC)i always come clean when called upon. i won't deny it. i'm not really much for the um... "kiddie stuff" or whatever.
so yeay for deep and meta and philosophical and textured and insanely surreal and weird and wonderful. y'know, like you & amalin & silvia & ivy and so on.
but for some reason, while the -content- of my preferred reading material is all philosophical and "heavy", i still go for the heavy about young, naive, immature characters, mostly.
i think it's because i was always deep and philosophically-minded, growing up-- like, age 14-17, and i haven't really uh... "matured" yet to the point where i can dig a "deep-thinking" 38-year-old as much as an equivalent 16-26 year-old.
i mean, i -will read- about any age group, but my squee resides with people about 5 years younger and older than me. sigh.
like say... i'm more likely to want to read umm... due south, if they were 19. i dunno why. like, y'know, 21 jump street, eheheheheh
but yes. i was mostly feeling defensive because -i- wasn't feeling likely to ever ditch hp for smallville or highlander, and if i leave, i just leave, and not to a new, more "mature" fandom.
that's what bothers me. that a lot of people who are getting bored with hp use the maturity, complexity thing as the reason. that highlander/smallville/what have you are more mature and complex and thus more worth their time, and stuff.
i mean, so why were they in hp, if it was so immature and not hot enough?
and why is it suddenly imperative that they find the main guy in their new fandom-of-the-moment hot? suddenly, draco isn't "as hot", and that bothers me.
suuure, if they were into hp for the hotness in the first place, and then it wore off and they need new blood, that's one thing.
but to just suddenly realize lex is hotter than draco and thus the smallville fandom is more appealing, bugs me.
i mean... i hear a lot of this. "draco is just a brat, but lex/methos/whoever are -real- men with maturity and complexity".
sigh. it bugs me >
no subject
Date: 2003-01-23 05:49 pm (UTC)I disagree - and actually, children's literature isn't inferior to adult fiction and chosen by authors lacking in the writing department; it simply uses a different formula and is extremely difficult to do it well, just in a different way. Unfortunately, it rarely gets the credit it deserves. It's important to place a work of literature in its genre or category before critiquing it, and JKR's is classified as children's or young adult's fiction. I don't find the characters hollow, but rather leaping off the page. Of course if one doesn't find a character to identify with, it is more difficult to see the complexity in the characters. I'm most impressed with her ability to convey so much with so little. She doesn't know the meaning of wordiness, which many authors tend to use overzealously. For her genre, she demonstrates a surprising aptitude for leaving things open to interpretation.
There are some fanfiction authors who write it as more adult fare, but they can't touch her as far as sheer imagination and the certain tone she depicts in the books. They can't; they're taking her ideas and running with it. Hardly a fair comparison. I would *really* suggest reading the books. There's something to them that fanfiction can't capture. Not to mention that fanfiction readily makes characters pleasing to the eye for the benefit of readers who care more for appearances rather than internal content.
Sorry, that's my lit. major talking. It's a matter of differing opinion, of course.
Lara
no subject
Date: 2003-01-23 06:05 pm (UTC)admittedly, i'm only doing it to write better fic ^^;
i would agree about the different glories of ya fic, since as i said, after all, ya fantasy is one of my 3 favorite genres, probably.
i am, however, something of a picky reader, especially since i've read so much of it.
i'm also a reader who's very conscious of -style-. VERY conscious. ok, obsessed with style.
you'll know what i mean, if you ever read patricia mckillip (or francesca lia block), when i tell you they're probably my favorite ya-type fantasy authors, closely followed by diana wynne jones.
patricia mckillip is like the -queen- of stylist fantasy, and she has plenty of really inventive worlds as well. but she's like, leagues and miles away from jkr. no 10 year old would read her in a million zillion years. unless that ten year old was me ;)
anyway. i've read a lot of this genre, so i don't feel very reverent towards the "great" jkr. or any author for that matter. well, i worship some, but they can seriously write. go ahead and tell me that theodore sturgeon and ursula leguin and mary stewart and peter beagle aren't great writers, and i will laugh -.-
ideas aren't enough. if i wanted ideas i would read greg bear and isaac asimov and arthur c clarke and ben bova and so on and so forth. that is to say, sci-fi (which i do read, but um... not as much).
what i meant was, this focus on ideas is the downfall of many a good scifi author. many, many, many scifi books have amazing ideas and reeeeeally bad execution. again, hello, arthur c clarke.
it is, of course, most definitely a matter of taste, but i wouldn't want you to think i judged anything blindly, although i -was- immediately biased when i saw -everyone- so hot for this thing. i hate fads, especially the hordes invading my cozy little backwater of fantasy fiction ;)
<-- hee. only -slightly- deranged and possessive -.-
but. i do get amused and entertained, somewhat, by her books. there's some wit in there somewhere.
harry is cute. so is draco. but um. not -that- cute ><;;