~~ collars. it's all about the collars.
Dec. 5th, 2004 02:46 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaI've had an odd realization-- which is probably only interesting to me, seeing as it's a bit of quibbling on my internal terminology, but ah well. That's what I'm here for, right. Right.
I've thought that one of my archetypal interests was the journey & transformation of 'The Monster'-- whatever/whoever is feared and loathed and made into a symbol of the Dark within a particular story/legend. This kind of archetype could manifest as a vampire or a murderer or even someone 'alien' like the present day prejudice against the queer, for instance. And while it's true that's an interesting subject, I think what I'm really fascinated with is 'The Beast'-- or rather, everything beastly and dark and dangerous (for it is untamed) within any and all characters.
I don't know if I'm particularly happy with dwelling on characters that are already labelled 'dark' or frightening, which is probably one reason I've never been particularly attracted to villains in fiction. I'm much more drawn to ambiguity and the inner struggle with one's darkness than the outer struggle with others' perception of that darkness. So 'the Beast' seems a more apt metaphor-- because, indeed, we all have the shadow of the Beast within us, since it's basically the Id. It's a difference of direction.
Really, I'm obsessed with the workings of the Id in every which way, but it's especially delicious when that unknown Dark within has an outer manifestation-- as in Remus, for instance, because it's especially stark when one's 'other' self is subdued, closed-in, maybe even kind in a way. That's why, perhaps, I've always loved The Beast (in Beauty and the Beast) and it's been a favorite type of fairy-tale for as long as I remember, along with The Frog Prince (which has a similar theme, actually) and The Snow Queen (yet again, with the redemption of the beastly little boy by pure devotion, though none of these boys were truly monstrous).
When I was little, the idea of love making the impossible possible was what most fascinated me about the romances in in the stories I read. That transformation, perhaps, is the very definition of the sublime-- to convert, to render finer, to elevate. And in making the transformation literal, the story acquires a sort of mythic resonance-- in making the Beast into a Man, of course Beauty learns to love truly, where love isn't blindness unless blindness is forgetting to see and learning to see past.
I was thinking, particularly, of my recent frustration with how difficult it is to make Harry respect Draco post-OoTP-- and it occurs to me that maybe respect is really a form of seeing without prejudice, of acknowledging someone's worth without the constraints of Ego, which speaks with the voice of fear. The Id fears as well, of course, but its fears can be overcome with a process of waking up-- of seeing what is invisible to the eye-- what is essential. The threat of death is nothing when one loves with one's whole heart, for one's fear is no longer for oneself. I believe that.
I love the Beast who is not a monster-- who is only a manifestation of his own internal fears. And once the Beast learns to see himself with kindness (and to love as he is loved), well-- he transforms. It's not so much that I think the human form is purer (in the fairy-tale), as I think it's simply recombined. The darkness is still there beneath the pretty face, but as long as he is loved, the Beast can wear that face without true fear of himself. I think... I think that in loving the Beast, the Hero changes not so much the Beast's nature (because he was always himself) as his self-perception. And when we believe we are beautiful-- and loved-- we change how we act towards others. We change in the ways that matter.
I think... well, it's easy to make the parallel about just why it was so important for Remus to have friends that loved & accepted him. That's what someone who perceives himself as the Beast thrives on, after all-- that acceptance. It really would be interesting to write/read an AU trying to extrapolate Remus's development growing up if he'd never become part of the Marauders. I wonder if he would've been-- not different in a blatantly worse way, precisely... but-- completely untamed. Deeply distrustful-- not so much unkind as unwilling. I don't know.
It really does appear that Remus was tamed, doesn't it? Sort of. I'm thinking of it in the sense it's used in `The Little Prince', which, btw, teaches one everything one needs to know about life as far as I'm concerned (heh). The Fox tells the Little Prince that one becomes responsible for what one has tamed-- but without that taming, there can be no connection. He could not play with the Fox when it was a wild Beast, but likewise the Fox said he needed the boy to tame him.
And to tame is to belong.
"For me you're only a little boy like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you have no need of me, either. For you I'm only a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, we'll need each other. You'll be the only boy in the world for me. I'll be the only fox in the world for you..."
"I'm beginning to understand," the little prince said. "There's a flower... I think she's tamed me..."
The fox became silent and gazed for a long time at the little prince.
"I beg of you…tame me!" he said.
"Willingly," the little prince replied, "but I haven’t got much time. I have friends to discover and a lot of things to understand."
"One can only understand the things one tames," said the fox, "Men have no more time to understand anything. They buy ready-made things in the shops. But since there are no shops where you can buy friends, men no longer have any friends. If you want a friend, tame me!"
--Antoine de Sainte-Exupéry
I've thought that one of my archetypal interests was the journey & transformation of 'The Monster'-- whatever/whoever is feared and loathed and made into a symbol of the Dark within a particular story/legend. This kind of archetype could manifest as a vampire or a murderer or even someone 'alien' like the present day prejudice against the queer, for instance. And while it's true that's an interesting subject, I think what I'm really fascinated with is 'The Beast'-- or rather, everything beastly and dark and dangerous (for it is untamed) within any and all characters.
I don't know if I'm particularly happy with dwelling on characters that are already labelled 'dark' or frightening, which is probably one reason I've never been particularly attracted to villains in fiction. I'm much more drawn to ambiguity and the inner struggle with one's darkness than the outer struggle with others' perception of that darkness. So 'the Beast' seems a more apt metaphor-- because, indeed, we all have the shadow of the Beast within us, since it's basically the Id. It's a difference of direction.
Really, I'm obsessed with the workings of the Id in every which way, but it's especially delicious when that unknown Dark within has an outer manifestation-- as in Remus, for instance, because it's especially stark when one's 'other' self is subdued, closed-in, maybe even kind in a way. That's why, perhaps, I've always loved The Beast (in Beauty and the Beast) and it's been a favorite type of fairy-tale for as long as I remember, along with The Frog Prince (which has a similar theme, actually) and The Snow Queen (yet again, with the redemption of the beastly little boy by pure devotion, though none of these boys were truly monstrous).
When I was little, the idea of love making the impossible possible was what most fascinated me about the romances in in the stories I read. That transformation, perhaps, is the very definition of the sublime-- to convert, to render finer, to elevate. And in making the transformation literal, the story acquires a sort of mythic resonance-- in making the Beast into a Man, of course Beauty learns to love truly, where love isn't blindness unless blindness is forgetting to see and learning to see past.
I was thinking, particularly, of my recent frustration with how difficult it is to make Harry respect Draco post-OoTP-- and it occurs to me that maybe respect is really a form of seeing without prejudice, of acknowledging someone's worth without the constraints of Ego, which speaks with the voice of fear. The Id fears as well, of course, but its fears can be overcome with a process of waking up-- of seeing what is invisible to the eye-- what is essential. The threat of death is nothing when one loves with one's whole heart, for one's fear is no longer for oneself. I believe that.
I love the Beast who is not a monster-- who is only a manifestation of his own internal fears. And once the Beast learns to see himself with kindness (and to love as he is loved), well-- he transforms. It's not so much that I think the human form is purer (in the fairy-tale), as I think it's simply recombined. The darkness is still there beneath the pretty face, but as long as he is loved, the Beast can wear that face without true fear of himself. I think... I think that in loving the Beast, the Hero changes not so much the Beast's nature (because he was always himself) as his self-perception. And when we believe we are beautiful-- and loved-- we change how we act towards others. We change in the ways that matter.
I think... well, it's easy to make the parallel about just why it was so important for Remus to have friends that loved & accepted him. That's what someone who perceives himself as the Beast thrives on, after all-- that acceptance. It really would be interesting to write/read an AU trying to extrapolate Remus's development growing up if he'd never become part of the Marauders. I wonder if he would've been-- not different in a blatantly worse way, precisely... but-- completely untamed. Deeply distrustful-- not so much unkind as unwilling. I don't know.
It really does appear that Remus was tamed, doesn't it? Sort of. I'm thinking of it in the sense it's used in `The Little Prince', which, btw, teaches one everything one needs to know about life as far as I'm concerned (heh). The Fox tells the Little Prince that one becomes responsible for what one has tamed-- but without that taming, there can be no connection. He could not play with the Fox when it was a wild Beast, but likewise the Fox said he needed the boy to tame him.
And to tame is to belong.
"For me you're only a little boy like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you have no need of me, either. For you I'm only a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, we'll need each other. You'll be the only boy in the world for me. I'll be the only fox in the world for you..."
"I'm beginning to understand," the little prince said. "There's a flower... I think she's tamed me..."
The fox became silent and gazed for a long time at the little prince.
"I beg of you…tame me!" he said.
"Willingly," the little prince replied, "but I haven’t got much time. I have friends to discover and a lot of things to understand."
"One can only understand the things one tames," said the fox, "Men have no more time to understand anything. They buy ready-made things in the shops. But since there are no shops where you can buy friends, men no longer have any friends. If you want a friend, tame me!"
--Antoine de Sainte-Exupéry
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 12:25 am (UTC)On the other hand, I find the current that runs through the story highly disturbing. Love your abuser and he'll change? Come on, please.
(This is perhaps why I like the story so much. The undertones are just so damn dysfunctional.)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 05:07 am (UTC)*melts back in the crowd*
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:answering here? can't reply to comments below
From:can unscreen drama if you like ^^
From:Re: can unscreen drama if you like ^^
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:hee
From:Re: hee
From:Re: hee
From:Re: hee
From:Re: hee
From:Re: hee
From:Re: hee
From:Re: hee
From:no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 11:57 am (UTC)I think most people have/have had a fascination with that concept, because 'the Monster' is all about psychology and the unknown. We're fascinated with what frightens us or by what we don't understand exactly for those reasons. Also, it's indicative of the possibility one has for evil to reside within them (metaphorically speaking, cause clearly I don't really think all people are evil). I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of a Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde type thing...? So then, I see your idea of 'the Beast' because it's that same sort of idea, but somehow it's less...harmful, or something? We don't want to admit that we might have the capacity to understand evil but we'll more readily admit that we have the capacity to understand what's different/etc. Because we truly do have that inside us, don't we - aspects we don't/can't/won't understand & so on. The quest to understand & all that.
...I think that's what I was trying to say. Um. Haha. :)
I was thinking, particularly, of my recent frustration with how difficult it is to make Harry respect Draco post-OoTP
AUGH! *spazzes out* I'm writing an essay (sort-of) about that. Man, the analysis makes me want to tear out my hair. Except not. I just...need it to be proven to me...I want someone to write something that proves it, & clearly it's not going to be me. Anyway.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 01:27 pm (UTC)I completely agree. I think that in the beast-to-man archetypes the outer transformation is merely a metaphor for/manifestation of an inner transformation. And it is all about self-perception etc. In the original BatB French story (in the movie) the beast was kind and gentle and was ashamed so of his 'ugliness' (interestingly, in French 'beastly' and 'ugly' can be the same word). Upon realization of the love of Belle, he transforms, la dee da yes.
However, I'm much more interested in stories of the realization of the lack of 'the beast' altogether (not in BatB, as that fits the storyline^ there), of the recognition of humanity in what was beastly. Of recognizing the beast in oneself. I like the reinterpretation of villains - not the redemption (though in other contexts, that is fabulous and beautiful) but an elucidation. I don't believe, really, in in-human humans and yet stories (of course) do and use them as foils and character types and plot devices. They become the givers of morality. And, as I don't believe in morality as a universal construct, I've always been very attracted to the transformation-that-isn't-transformation between perceived beast and man. I think there's something very frightening about that, which is fascinating.
::shrug:: But I'm not disagreeing with your Remus/Draco (o.O haha) beast stuff. I do think that archetype works - especially with Remus (absolutely with Remus). With Draco... who knows. He'd fit just as well with my whole beast-is-man thing, as there is always the possibility that he loves himself just fine. That he's just as human in his self-acceptance as anyone is (not that that's a concrete thing, but...). Mm. :) It's so fun, reinterpretation.
<3 (and whee, i get to use my good-and-evil kitten icon! rock)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 04:53 pm (UTC)You are inspiring me to go back and work on my novel-kinda-sorta-in-progress cos it's 100% about this. Y'know what it was inspired by? Shrek. I watched the first movie, and I remembered the old St George story when they got to rescue Fiona and the dragon-chick came out after them, and I felt so sad for the dragon when they ran off. And so I thought "What about if the princess was the monster?", and I tried to write it as a short story, but it didn't work. So now it's uber-complicated, and has many variations on the theme, and is probably going to haunt me until the day I die, LIKE THE MONSTER IT IS!
I never liked Beauty & the Beast much though. Strange, eh?
But yes, this is probably why I like tortured characters so much. And why I am such a Tom-Riddle apologist. Because he's a monster, undoubtably, but he was made a monster partly by his environment, which is always a powerful theme for me. Ahh yes, I am obsessed. These are mostly the kinds of monsters I like best - the scapegoated social minority/individual who is hated/feared for what they are, and so becomes the monster that everyone says they are (shit, wearing my psychological complexes on my sleeve again, aren't I?). I mean, let's face it, X-men is so HP just dressed up in superhero costumes (or HP is so X-men dressed down in wizarding gettup), they're both about a minority that is/has been persecuted and are regarded as freaks and monsters. And let's face it, I'd probably end up on Magneto/Salazaar's side if ever given the choice between getting along with stupid humans and killing them off. So yes, er, I can't remember exactly where I was going with this, but I know it has something to do with psychological monsters, and you're a smart enough cookie to see what I'm getting at *cough*. I'll just go over here now and stop acting like an idiot...
Oh, no, wait, I have more to add: I don't like the idea of taming. It seems so... I dunno. Homocentric? Antithesis to the system? Victorian? One of the reasons I loved Princess Mononoke was that in the end, San didn't go off and join the tribe and become the tamed girl. She remained wild within her (severely lessened) environment, even though humanity would probably encroach on it eventually. I feel like we always need that untamed monster somewhere, somehow, if only to feel better about ourselves. So er, how does this tie in? Well, I think the Monster is as much a social-psychological manifestation of the fears of the culture and the conflicts it has with things around it as much as it is the inner personal manifestation or a person's fears and issues.
And I am so totally going to go work on that story today...
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: