~~ the fanfic reader's dilemma
Nov. 12th, 2004 10:54 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkaYou know what's beautiful? Fanfic. I love fanfic-- reading it, I mean. I love getting to know the same character over and over again, seeing certain things change while others remain the same-- seeing the same themes be explored again and again with slight and sometimes huge variations.
I love seeing the same issue (or character) from a thousand subtly different angles, and I love how the Story is never really over, because really, good stories shouldn't-- couldn't-- end. And with fanfic, no story ends. No one really dies. Your favorite characters' first kiss can happen again and again in ways you yourself would never have envisioned if you wrote them. Everything familiar is made unfamiliar-- you never know what's up for grabs. It's a story that's both utterly familiar and utterly unpredictable. I just love it.
And it's brilliant when you can read a fanfic all the way through (all the way!!) without thinking 'he'd -never- do -that-' or 'he'd never think -that-' or 'they would NEVER EVER IN A MILLION TRILLION YEARS do -that-'. Yes, that is sheer bliss.
And of course it's accepted wisdom that you're supposed to know & care deeply about the canon behind whichever fandom/pairing you're currently reading, fanfic-wise, but you know.... I think the dark, ugly truth is-- the more you know, the less you enjoy. It becomes a question of 'truth' vs. 'lies'-- rather than everything being some degree of... y'know... pretty lie. But very pretty-- and largely necessary if one fancies pairings which are inherently, well, impossible in canon and are thus fanon by definition (...like H/D).
I really think that the fanfic reader is a unique sort of fan-- regardless of their attitude to the canon source of whichever fandom they're currently reading in. I think if you're into reading fanfic, even if you care about canon accuracy, it seems that you will still implicitly priviledge fanon. And by 'fanon' I mean, you will priviledge the constant shifting of possibility of what can happen over the static actuality of what -has- happened. If as a reader, you're not prepared to do that, with any given pairing or fandom, you'll quickly realize that the great majority of fanfic doesn't hold much appeal.
And so, at base level-- much as I'm a stickler for plausible extrapolation-- I'm that kind of fan. In the end, I care about the range of possibility most, and most especially, I want to be surprised as a reader. I realize I've reached some sort of apex of fannish discontent when no fic with my OTP has the ability to really -startle- me anymore. My most harsh criticism would be-- I know where you're going, even though it makes no actual sense.
I've realized there might be a -reason- my happiest times with reading H/D were the year before I'd actually read canon and officially knew enough to realize that most of the stuff I'd enjoyed so much was really kinda crappy if you saw it mainly as an extension of canon. Here I feel compelled to say I still knew -enough- canon for my purposes, merely from picking it up here & there. I mean, I don't precisely regret reading the books, because I do love canon Harry too much to ever regret meeting him-- even if it cost me the pleasure of a thousand fanfics I might otherwise have loved.
I mean, the conundrum is such: the great majority of fanfic will always be crappy, for nearly any pairing. You can either suck it up and enjoy it (clearly easier the more ignorant you are) or you can not read. And what's the point of not reading and being secure in one's superior understanding of canon? Where's the pleasure in that, especially if you're a compulsive reader above all other things (such as myself)?
I mean, a little knowledge of canon helps you know what's going on as far as the fanfics you read, yes-- but it seems to be that a true love of fanfic and of canon cannot truly coexist, because if you're a voracious fanfic reader (as I am-- since whenever I'm a reader of anything, I'm voracious) then you have to deal with the fact that you're dealing mainly in fanon, especially in a pairing that is kind of... outside canonical plausibility like a) slash & b) rival-slash. Indeed, perhaps there's a greater likelihood to be more wild 'fanon' inventiveness in fic with a rival-slash pairing than a more 'conventional' one, since you'd have to stretch plausibility more to make it happen-- and yet, isn't that challenge itself fascinating?
I think one has more fun with fanfic if one sort of... has a mental veil cast over the source material. Either one is largely ignorant or easily forgetful. And people are always surprised (or just confused) that I've been one or the other in most of the fandoms I've ever read fic for, but-- where's the fun in beating your head against the keyboard 'cause someone makes your favorite character into someone else?
Perhaps it should simply be acknowledged as a default truth-- all fanfic has to be OOC to some significant extent. The less you care (and not knowing better is surely connected to not caring), wouldn't it make sense that you're more able to enjoy what's there? And it's not a question of complete ignorance, because that lessens enjoyment simply because you'd be confused-- it's more.... The more you think (and write) about what you know of canon, the more you pin it down, and the more definitive your notion of 'canon' becomes.
When we read or watch TV or movies-- most people don't pay that much attention to the details, even if they're really enjoying themselves. They get the gist of it, sure, but I don't think they could really write a very good report on 'just the facts, Ma'am' unless they thought about it & tried. And the more you try to confine even a particular aspect of story to quantifiable facts, the more it becomes captive to that version of the facts. It becomes marked, like a book which always falls open in the same places. It becomes predictable, and hostile to any fanonical remaking.
Generally speaking, my favorite pairings sprang up in fandoms where I knew -some- canon, but it was incomplete and shrouded in time (meaning, I'd last seen it or thought about it years or at least months ago). After that freshness of memory fades, fanon has a chance to appear... fascinating, so the reader thinks of it as a unique twist instead of a horrible misreading of The Truth. A twist that would surprise (and therefore delight) a reader rather than frustrate them with the sheer inaccuracy of its invention.
I was thinking this especially lately, reading a slew of![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
lupercali's & mousapelli's & juliefortune's & casirafics' & librae's & then ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-syndicated.gif)
switchknife's Sirius and Remus characterizations-- and they all worked for me in comparable measure, though Prufrock's writing is still my favorite. This, even though I could come up with characterization quibbles for them all (...well, except librae) if I wanted-- but I don't. I can just put them out of my mind in favor of intensifying my enjoyment of the things that work best for me. Oh, joy!
That's such a freeing, liberating feeling-- like-- a deep relaxing breath. It's not that I have -no- standards, obviously, but that really, my boundaries are pretty loose with these characters. I know the general canon, but it's not an ever-present grind inside my head, the way -I- think these characters should be. I couldn't write a fic myself that easy-- which is a relief, actually, because it means I don't really have that much of a clue. It's great!
I've gotten to the point, basically, where it's really hard for me to enjoy others' H/D fics. To the point where I often forget why am I bothering to read them and why do I even -care-. And then I read something-- likeshaggirl's latest drabbles-- and remember, and am glad-- but this is in comparison to the vast majority of stuff written, which is starting to make me gag (or scream at people that they're wrong! wrong! wrong!!). Too much, too much, too much. Everything feels so old and tired, too familiar, too obvious. These characters are so close to me they're starting to feel like a cancerous growth or something. The more time passes, I feel a sort of almost proprietary affection for Harry and a greater and greater discontent with most people's Draco (JKR included). I love, still, Aspen's & Maya's & Cassie's & Kassie's & Silvia's & Miss Breed's-- but gods, that's it. I don't think I can love anyone else's-- the circle is closed. It just feels old. And tired. And I still love them, like one loves one's wounds, but jeez. I can see down to their bones and entrails, and that's knowing too much.
Perhaps, also... unlike Sirius/Remus, say, my obsession with Harry/Draco has always been about me, and... maybe I'm starting to actually move on past that place where I needed them to talk about me. Where I needed to talk about me through them at all. Maybe I really am finally over my own stupid bad boy, huh. (...Or maybe... I'm just a different person now, too... and can at least play with others for a while. I mean, 'obsessed for life' sounds too much like a prison sentence, anyway.)
So. Viva le new fandom! (Or Sirius/Remus... close enough for now, at least.)
~~
Anyway, I'm seriously loving on the S/R fics at the moment. W00t! Feels so new & shiny, yeay! I made another Sirius/Remus art.com doodle from sheer squee, though it's nothing special.
In other news, I saw `Garden State' last night, and it rocked out. Well, especially in the musical sense. Electronica is so the new rock, ahahahah.
I love seeing the same issue (or character) from a thousand subtly different angles, and I love how the Story is never really over, because really, good stories shouldn't-- couldn't-- end. And with fanfic, no story ends. No one really dies. Your favorite characters' first kiss can happen again and again in ways you yourself would never have envisioned if you wrote them. Everything familiar is made unfamiliar-- you never know what's up for grabs. It's a story that's both utterly familiar and utterly unpredictable. I just love it.
And it's brilliant when you can read a fanfic all the way through (all the way!!) without thinking 'he'd -never- do -that-' or 'he'd never think -that-' or 'they would NEVER EVER IN A MILLION TRILLION YEARS do -that-'. Yes, that is sheer bliss.
And of course it's accepted wisdom that you're supposed to know & care deeply about the canon behind whichever fandom/pairing you're currently reading, fanfic-wise, but you know.... I think the dark, ugly truth is-- the more you know, the less you enjoy. It becomes a question of 'truth' vs. 'lies'-- rather than everything being some degree of... y'know... pretty lie. But very pretty-- and largely necessary if one fancies pairings which are inherently, well, impossible in canon and are thus fanon by definition (...like H/D).
I really think that the fanfic reader is a unique sort of fan-- regardless of their attitude to the canon source of whichever fandom they're currently reading in. I think if you're into reading fanfic, even if you care about canon accuracy, it seems that you will still implicitly priviledge fanon. And by 'fanon' I mean, you will priviledge the constant shifting of possibility of what can happen over the static actuality of what -has- happened. If as a reader, you're not prepared to do that, with any given pairing or fandom, you'll quickly realize that the great majority of fanfic doesn't hold much appeal.
And so, at base level-- much as I'm a stickler for plausible extrapolation-- I'm that kind of fan. In the end, I care about the range of possibility most, and most especially, I want to be surprised as a reader. I realize I've reached some sort of apex of fannish discontent when no fic with my OTP has the ability to really -startle- me anymore. My most harsh criticism would be-- I know where you're going, even though it makes no actual sense.
I've realized there might be a -reason- my happiest times with reading H/D were the year before I'd actually read canon and officially knew enough to realize that most of the stuff I'd enjoyed so much was really kinda crappy if you saw it mainly as an extension of canon. Here I feel compelled to say I still knew -enough- canon for my purposes, merely from picking it up here & there. I mean, I don't precisely regret reading the books, because I do love canon Harry too much to ever regret meeting him-- even if it cost me the pleasure of a thousand fanfics I might otherwise have loved.
I mean, the conundrum is such: the great majority of fanfic will always be crappy, for nearly any pairing. You can either suck it up and enjoy it (clearly easier the more ignorant you are) or you can not read. And what's the point of not reading and being secure in one's superior understanding of canon? Where's the pleasure in that, especially if you're a compulsive reader above all other things (such as myself)?
I mean, a little knowledge of canon helps you know what's going on as far as the fanfics you read, yes-- but it seems to be that a true love of fanfic and of canon cannot truly coexist, because if you're a voracious fanfic reader (as I am-- since whenever I'm a reader of anything, I'm voracious) then you have to deal with the fact that you're dealing mainly in fanon, especially in a pairing that is kind of... outside canonical plausibility like a) slash & b) rival-slash. Indeed, perhaps there's a greater likelihood to be more wild 'fanon' inventiveness in fic with a rival-slash pairing than a more 'conventional' one, since you'd have to stretch plausibility more to make it happen-- and yet, isn't that challenge itself fascinating?
I think one has more fun with fanfic if one sort of... has a mental veil cast over the source material. Either one is largely ignorant or easily forgetful. And people are always surprised (or just confused) that I've been one or the other in most of the fandoms I've ever read fic for, but-- where's the fun in beating your head against the keyboard 'cause someone makes your favorite character into someone else?
Perhaps it should simply be acknowledged as a default truth-- all fanfic has to be OOC to some significant extent. The less you care (and not knowing better is surely connected to not caring), wouldn't it make sense that you're more able to enjoy what's there? And it's not a question of complete ignorance, because that lessens enjoyment simply because you'd be confused-- it's more.... The more you think (and write) about what you know of canon, the more you pin it down, and the more definitive your notion of 'canon' becomes.
When we read or watch TV or movies-- most people don't pay that much attention to the details, even if they're really enjoying themselves. They get the gist of it, sure, but I don't think they could really write a very good report on 'just the facts, Ma'am' unless they thought about it & tried. And the more you try to confine even a particular aspect of story to quantifiable facts, the more it becomes captive to that version of the facts. It becomes marked, like a book which always falls open in the same places. It becomes predictable, and hostile to any fanonical remaking.
Generally speaking, my favorite pairings sprang up in fandoms where I knew -some- canon, but it was incomplete and shrouded in time (meaning, I'd last seen it or thought about it years or at least months ago). After that freshness of memory fades, fanon has a chance to appear... fascinating, so the reader thinks of it as a unique twist instead of a horrible misreading of The Truth. A twist that would surprise (and therefore delight) a reader rather than frustrate them with the sheer inaccuracy of its invention.
I was thinking this especially lately, reading a slew of
lupercali's & mousapelli's & juliefortune's & casirafics' & librae's & then switchknife's Sirius and Remus characterizations-- and they all worked for me in comparable measure, though Prufrock's writing is still my favorite. This, even though I could come up with characterization quibbles for them all (...well, except librae) if I wanted-- but I don't. I can just put them out of my mind in favor of intensifying my enjoyment of the things that work best for me. Oh, joy!That's such a freeing, liberating feeling-- like-- a deep relaxing breath. It's not that I have -no- standards, obviously, but that really, my boundaries are pretty loose with these characters. I know the general canon, but it's not an ever-present grind inside my head, the way -I- think these characters should be. I couldn't write a fic myself that easy-- which is a relief, actually, because it means I don't really have that much of a clue. It's great!
I've gotten to the point, basically, where it's really hard for me to enjoy others' H/D fics. To the point where I often forget why am I bothering to read them and why do I even -care-. And then I read something-- like
shaggirl's latest drabbles-- and remember, and am glad-- but this is in comparison to the vast majority of stuff written, which is starting to make me gag (or scream at people that they're wrong! wrong! wrong!!). Too much, too much, too much. Everything feels so old and tired, too familiar, too obvious. These characters are so close to me they're starting to feel like a cancerous growth or something. The more time passes, I feel a sort of almost proprietary affection for Harry and a greater and greater discontent with most people's Draco (JKR included). I love, still, Aspen's & Maya's & Cassie's & Kassie's & Silvia's & Miss Breed's-- but gods, that's it. I don't think I can love anyone else's-- the circle is closed. It just feels old. And tired. And I still love them, like one loves one's wounds, but jeez. I can see down to their bones and entrails, and that's knowing too much.Perhaps, also... unlike Sirius/Remus, say, my obsession with Harry/Draco has always been about me, and... maybe I'm starting to actually move on past that place where I needed them to talk about me. Where I needed to talk about me through them at all. Maybe I really am finally over my own stupid bad boy, huh. (...Or maybe... I'm just a different person now, too... and can at least play with others for a while. I mean, 'obsessed for life' sounds too much like a prison sentence, anyway.)
So. Viva le new fandom! (Or Sirius/Remus... close enough for now, at least.)
~~
Anyway, I'm seriously loving on the S/R fics at the moment. W00t! Feels so new & shiny, yeay! I made another Sirius/Remus art.com doodle from sheer squee, though it's nothing special.
In other news, I saw `Garden State' last night, and it rocked out. Well, especially in the musical sense. Electronica is so the new rock, ahahahah.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-11-12 09:24 pm (UTC)And from what I have read, (you remember where I was hanging out at the beginning, lol) I've found that it's so easy to get discontented - or something? - with a lot of the stuff that's out there. I guess it's like you said; the great majority of fanfic will always be crappy, for nearly any pairing. You can either suck it up and enjoy it (clearly easier the more ignorant you are) or you can not read. Which, I mean...I think that's true. And sad, too, that so much of it is Not So Good but also that readers are kinda compelled to go 'well...er, alright then' halfheartedly. I don't have that much time to read fics, so when I do I want it to be something that really does it for me. (And, I wonder, who doesn't want that?) Luckily there's great stuff out there, as well.
Y'know, I can't read S/R cause the only one I ever tried to read made me cry. And stuff doesn't usually make me cry cause I'm frigid, y'know. ;) So now I am scarred. Well, not really. Heh.
In other news, I saw `Garden State' last night
That movie owns me. It's my favorite of the year and maybe even on my top 10 list for all time. THE HAMSTER OMG!!! Ahahaha. It's sad that that made me laugh so much. And I think what I appreciated most about the movie was the way it dealt with depression; I didn't think it got preachy or heavy-handed or sentimental or whatever. And some of the subject matter just hurt because it was so real. And obviously you know any movie that opens with a Coldplay song is cool in my book. When the DVD comes out, there's supposed to be lots of extra footage, which I'm really looking forward to. :)
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Date: 2004-11-12 09:53 pm (UTC)That is very very true.
(I love reading your posts, because they make my brain expand.)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-12 09:55 pm (UTC)...You know I love both Harry & Draco too. Well, I want to smack Draco's arse whereas I only want to kiss Harry's (other) cheek, but that's nothing new :> It's just. THREE YEARS. And SO MUCH BAD FIC. And if I read one more thing with a sucky Draco characterization, I'll really lose my last braincell~:))
Yeah, I loved the sheer... realism coupled with humor and actual subtle plot-type-thing `Garden State' had going-- like, it was both like a casual, easy-going 'day in the life of' type movie -and- a really touching story, which is hard as hell to do. Like, being serious and yet not draw too much attention. And the music, mmm. And the characters, omg! THAT LINE. "Don't mock my hobbies, I don't mock you for being a bastard." hehehheeeeee I think I'd have loved it just that for that :))
no subject
Date: 2004-11-12 10:16 pm (UTC)Well, I like HP canon a lot, but I can still enjoy a range of S/R, it seems, 'cause I haven't... er... solidified a personal canon on them in my head at this point...? I think. Like, usually at least not hating canon helps for one to read lots of fanfic for something :)) (Which is why my utter boredom with most cop shows stops me from reading in a great range of fandoms, heheh.)
no subject
Date: 2004-11-12 10:29 pm (UTC)I'm kinda at this point this week where, like, I don't really want to read a fic about the H/D relationship so much as a fic about their dynamic, y'know? I think I've just...been thinking about it too much, haha. I want to read &/or write something that's totally IC with the end of OotP (I've been re-reading the end this week) - like, complete with death threats & punch-ups & everything, cause that's real and the stuff that I've been writing, like...isn't, really. I started writing one but so far they're just sniping 'DON'T ACT LIKE YOU KNOW ME, BITCH!' & etc. Man. :)
*sigh* I cannot rave enough about 'Garden State'. I'm so glad you liked it too. And yes, the music! Sooo good. Exactly, it did have a 'day in the life of' feel - I think that was not only due to the fact that the plot/characterization/storyline was realistic, but that the characters talked the way people actually talk! I really liked that. It just...wasn't glossed over or glorified. Oh the love.
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Date: 2004-11-12 10:41 pm (UTC)I want to read about their dynamic, too! And! It's just! That so few people write it! And! I'm so saaaaad. But anything with the words 'bitch' in it makes me happy :D :D Mmmm, punch-ups. Heeeeeeeeee. See, it's all about the snark & the bloood & the shagging & also 'I'LL HAVE YOU, POTTER!!' & 'YOU WISH, MALFOY!' (That's the secret to my H/D lurve right there). Yes, the over-the-top posturing, yes. 'THINK YOU CAN TAKE ME, FERRETBRAIN??!' & 'I HAVE INFLUENCE YOU CAN'T DREAM OF, SCARHEAD!! YOU'LL BE SORRY! YOU'LL ALL BE BLOODY SORRY!!!'
...Just a few days ago, I was walking home in like, freezing cold weather, right, but it was a clear night... and to entertain myself, I started role-playing an H/D fic out loud, ahahahah :D :D 'Cause I was just so depressed over the overall State Of The H/D, y'know, yet my own vision of them still makes me glee. Like, of course, the standard Harry-being-incensed-at-Draco-looking & Draco's-empty-threats & stupid-bad-jokes-ahoy & ever-escalating-taunts-and-jeers & the-world-fades-away-as-they-scream-madly-at-each-other & finally... finally... I skipped to the sex and was like, "FUCK I NEED YOU NOW, MALFOY" (really loudly, as the cars zoomed by me on the highway).
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Date: 2004-11-12 11:03 pm (UTC)I KNOW I KNOW THE DYNAMIC. I haven't ever read one, I don't think, that I can think of right now that really dealt with that...? Sad times for sure. I'm, like, compelled to write this thing even if it's just to prove to myself that I can do it, y'know. Like. And also, clearly, cause of the yelling and punching AND SNARK OMG. They just yell at each other and then, like, go insane, so when I make them start going at it they just don't care anymore. Um. Yes. That's how it works.
AHAHAHAHA I just had to sit here for 5 minutes till I stopped laughing at the role-playing story. I was like, 'She didn't! But she diiiiid, ahahaha, didn't she?!' You make me laugh so much. OMG IRINA <333333! But you needed someone with you so there could be, like, actual sniping. Hahahaha. But, y'know, the image of you yelling as cars go past is classic. :)
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Date: 2004-11-12 11:16 pm (UTC)...there is really no end to the insane things I do in public when you get me in a mood :)) I HAVE NO SHAME :>
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Date: 2004-11-12 11:27 pm (UTC)Ahahaha, Rocky!Draco...I'm picturing it with the song and the hooded sweatshirt, lol! But yeah, I think that's it, really, isn't it. I mean, anytime you have the sort of dynamic that Harry & Draco have - like, intense, hate-driven competition, among other things - then obviously there's going to be the one who 'wins', but then there has to be the one who keeps the other riled up. Like, sure, I could see Draco being pissed off (not jealous, really, but incensed) cause Harry always beats him at Quiddich & whatever, & gets all the attention (not that Draco would want the sort of attention Harry gets, but). Y'know? Dunno if I'm making any sense, haha.
Heh. Most people I know have no shame. It's like, a rule to be my friend, man. If you have any propriety, of course I will still hang out with you, but WHERE'S THE FUN IN IT?! Um.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-12 11:34 pm (UTC)Well, most of the time I'm a quiet hermitic woodland creature-type girl, but I go from quiet to hyper-and-insane in .00004 seconds~:)) IT'S LIKE JEKYLL & HYDE EXCEPT I'M SORT OF SANE!!1 ...MOSTLY! (BUT WHO WANTS SANE NORMAL PEOPLE ANYWAY? THEY ARE DULL AND PROBABLY SMELL OF HOT-DOGS!!1)
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Date: 2004-11-12 11:43 pm (UTC)Though I usually don't think "he would never do that", most times I think "He would never do that like that". Characters would do anything - Draco could become an missionary to spread the Muggle love in ten years, who know, the power of conversion... I don't question the what but the how of the characters's actions. :D
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Date: 2004-11-12 11:48 pm (UTC)See, I'm probably hyper most of the time. Or, well. Perky, maybe. Or something. I don't know, haha. People who don't know me that well think I'm shy & polite & normal, come to find out I am NONE OF THE ABOVE MWAHAHAHA! I fool them all very well. But then once they get to know me they just say I'm amusing, which is fine by me. :)
I'm reading 'Undone' & the Valentine's one. I know you're proud, cause...like, I could possibly be converted? Maybe? I think.
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Date: 2004-11-13 12:00 am (UTC)...am totally not shy/normal/polite (...not polite anyway... at all... really sad actually), I'm just... quiet, ahahah. Until I feel comfortable and then ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE. It's REENA THE HURRICANE OF...STUFF!ness. Er. I hesitate to think just how many butterscotch candies I've had in the last half an hour, btw. Really, that's why I don't drink-- I just consume sugar, and VOILA! If they had sugar bars, I'd totally go.
I mean, I was reading
no subject
Date: 2004-11-13 12:14 am (UTC)you'd just need to have fic written by people loving the canon in whatever form
I don't think the 'love' for the canon was my main point there... I mean, unless you equate love with knowledge. I mean, plenty of people love a story without really knowing it in depth, just loving their interpretation or their vague memory or their particular favorite places or characters in it. What seems more important is an in-depth canon-love which implies obsessive knowledge. And I'm not talking about canon-love and fic writing-- I was specifically talking about reading. People write fic for many different reasons, combining love, hate, even indifference and whimsy in many combinations-- I mean, I wrote my first bit of H/D for no reason except I was randomly channelling Draco's rage. No great knowledge of canon (and indeed, no reading of canon) existed for me at that point. I was just-- feeling the rage. So I really think the motivations/psychology behind the reading & writing of fic is separate as far as I can see.
And I wasn't implying you had to read fic to ship-- I know plenty of people ship without writing any fic-- I mean, plenty of people ship Harry/Hermione, say, without even knowing fandom exists. I was only saying I love reading fic and everything followed from that-- I was saying, I love fic and therefore want to read it. See? The fic is my addiction as much or moreso than any pairing.
Yeah, I'm with you on the 'how'. I mean-- I'm into the multiple variations of fanon writing, so of course I'm all right with many different possibilities. It's just that when I'm -upset- I want to shout that about HE'D NEVER-- because I'm upset and because I mean it in context so the 'how' is included in the 'that'.
I don't want to subvert canon. I mean, when I started shipping H/D, it was completely separate from canon. Canon, to me, has nothing to do with my liking H/D except as source/background for who they are & their dynamic-- but subversion implies a future action, not a past inspiration.
I don't think it's even entirely possible to subvert canon except by working through the chinks and empty places and basically working parallel to it in fanon-land. You cannot subvert canon except by making fanon because canon is a closed system. I tried to imagine a way to subvert canon in my next last post (though like, no one really responded to that aspect of it, even though it was The Point)... by thinking that maybe if you totally imitate it to the extreme, you could then somehow better mess with it. Eh. Basically, I don't think you can do it unless you're writing a shared world.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-13 12:27 am (UTC)...yeah, I guess I don't know what I want. As usual. Heh. Cause...well, I was just writing in this fic I mentioned earlier, and...it's supposed to be a series of letters back & forth between Harry & Draco, right, except some of the stuff in there is too analytical for them to be saying. So I'm thinking, like, maybe that could be the basis for something else & I can see it in my head but I just don't have the faith in myself to write it. It's like, do you ever get that way & then just think, 'dammit, why can't someone just write exactly what I want to read, like, right now?!' Cause that would make it easier, lol. Cause just...I NEED FAITH IN THE DYNAMIC, MAN. I don't know why I've been so cynical about it this week...? Who knows, haha.
Mmm chocolate indeed. Dude, sugar bars would be an instant hit, you know they would! Like, I'd so go. I see a future for you, running sugar bars & writing fairy tales. :)
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Date: 2004-11-13 12:36 am (UTC)Yeah... I think that the whole making-statements thing is a sign you're not really connecting with the story & trying to -make- it go somewhere instead of really going places with it. Ideally, things should just -happen-... which is hard in a letters fic (...I remember my first attempt at an HP fic was a diary-fic... which is similar... and boy was that a disaster of self-consious whining of mammoth proportions).
I think it's a question of being -ready- to write the Fic Of Your Dreams at some point... like, after you've picked apart pieces of it, and thought about the dynamic to the point where you don't have to -think- & it just flows naturally. Like, you won't need faith anymore-- won't need to rationalize-- 'cause it'd just be -there-. How they -are-. Takes practice playing with them though. But at least they're pretty when they're nekkid :>
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Date: 2004-11-13 12:51 am (UTC)I think you're right, though. Well, I know you're right, cause lately I've been really frustrated with my writing in general. I mean, I don't want to force anything, and usually my writing evolves on its own anyway. Like, one day you just come back to a story you'd given up as a lost cause, because you realize that it could work, for (X reason) that you'd never thought of before. It's like selectively giving up, but only for a while, or something. So, like. I'm not even aiming for the fic of my dreams at this point (that's probably a long way off, IF it ever happens, haha). I'm just aiming for something that doesn't suck, right, cause I aim high. Except not. Heh. You speak from experience, though, so I'm just listening. :)
I think for the time being I should just read all the lovely things that are out there, cause it's so easy to angst over one's own writing and so much better to just read stuff & appreciate it.
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Date: 2004-11-13 11:15 am (UTC)i've had enough fandoms where i was totally into a canon relationship on screen yet shipped something differently in the fic...and never saw the two as interfering or competing (BtVS and XF, for example). Call it cognitive dissonance :-)
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Date: 2004-11-13 12:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-13 01:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-13 03:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-15 09:20 am (UTC)wow. so, i'm curious, what made you start reading H/D then? i mean, i got interested because i'm aware of their canon characters and i'd like to read them interact in other ways...
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Date: 2004-11-15 11:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-11-16 12:02 pm (UTC)