Whoa, this discussion has grown to a thing of beauty. Am late to party.
(I'm not attacking you, personally. Nice to meet, etc, by the way! Just like to hash out canon a bit!)
:D Pleasure to meet you as well, and no worries. It's good for people to smack me down on my Harry love from time to time so I don't go too far into self-righteous land and can see other perspectives. And I'm probably one of the people at high risk for succumbing to JKR's "force-feeding" that you and darklites discuss below. (wait, no, what am I saying? everyone should agree with me all the time, no matter what.^^;;)
But definitely, I'll agree that every character's anger/nastiness is understandable... or at least it should be in a reasonably-written story. Hopefully, we can see even the "villain's" motivations, although we might not agree with 'em.
Mostly I wanted to put my quick 2 cents in, that if others' behavior is not inexcusable, then Harry's behavior is not so inexcusable either (even if he is the author's pet and she wants to force his excusably in our faces). The argument that I counter in a knee-jerk way--before it's even raised--(I think we all have 'em) is the double standard argument, i.e. that Draco's and Slytherin's anger/bigotry/nastiness toward Gryffindors is understandable and ok because the Gryffindors are so favored and self-righteous, but that Harry being arrogant and thoughtless makes him the most evil, unsympathetic bastard ever etc etc.
And, to be consistent, I also believe that the double standard argument shouldn't be turned on its head to favor Harry and the Gryffindors.
Although, yeah, even trying to have a "fair & objective" discussion/argument, things can get sticky. Because, (as many people have noted here) JKR has unfortunately rigged her text crudely, and often she'll have a Harry-Gryffindor-favoring double-standard presented as Truth...
But anything I would have had to add about that and judging characters based on meta readings, reenka and others have already said below (and probably more clearly than I would have).
*wonders if primarily-Harry fans are less inclined to meta, since I'd much rather hash out the text's reality than the metatext*
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2004-06-08 12:32 am (UTC)(I'm not attacking you, personally. Nice to meet, etc, by the way! Just like to hash out canon a bit!)
:D Pleasure to meet you as well, and no worries. It's good for people to smack me down on my Harry love from time to time so I don't go too far into self-righteous land and can see other perspectives. And I'm probably one of the people at high risk for succumbing to JKR's "force-feeding" that you and
But definitely, I'll agree that every character's anger/nastiness is understandable... or at least it should be in a reasonably-written story. Hopefully, we can see even the "villain's" motivations, although we might not agree with 'em.
Mostly I wanted to put my quick 2 cents in, that if others' behavior is not inexcusable, then Harry's behavior is not so inexcusable either (even if he is the author's pet and she wants to force his excusably in our faces). The argument that I counter in a knee-jerk way--before it's even raised--(I think we all have 'em) is the double standard argument, i.e. that Draco's and Slytherin's anger/bigotry/nastiness toward Gryffindors is understandable and ok because the Gryffindors are so favored and self-righteous, but that Harry being arrogant and thoughtless makes him the most evil, unsympathetic bastard ever etc etc.
And, to be consistent, I also believe that the double standard argument shouldn't be turned on its head to favor Harry and the Gryffindors.
Although, yeah, even trying to have a "fair & objective" discussion/argument, things can get sticky. Because, (as many people have noted here) JKR has unfortunately rigged her text crudely, and often she'll have a Harry-Gryffindor-favoring double-standard presented as Truth...
But anything I would have had to add about that and judging characters based on meta readings, reenka and others have already said below (and probably more clearly than I would have).
*wonders if primarily-Harry fans are less inclined to meta, since I'd much rather hash out the text's reality than the metatext*