~~ obligatory first `reena rants & angsts about her fic' post

[reenka]

*starts to gnaw on own bones*

i read amanuensis1's post about the common use of "contrivance" to write harry/snape fics, and am now wibbling like a madwoman.

the writing angst just doesn't stop. just. doesn't stop. maybe i should start numbering the days. i don't know, i think it's about two weeks? it's around day 18 of "reena goes insane and decides to write longfic seriously for once". i may not come out alive.


wah. every day is a new reason why my fic sucks ass. why is that? why god, why? it's like this. when i'm done, it's going to be like, 10 chapters and maybe 100 pages. that is very intimidating. i can't even -imagine- what i'll say about it. it'll be like: um. this took awhile. it was also hard. ahem. please say something about how it was worth it. i'll give you ...my souuuuul. well. something like that.

first of all, i hate contrivance fics, too. and yet, the reason that i'm writing this is a plot-bunny, amazingly enough. in a way, plot itself is a contrivance. i want harry & draco to get together in the most insanely realistic way possible, and if you really go there you'd need to work around jkr's plot (which is also full of contrivances), and what -is- a contrivance, anyway? my god. it boggles the mind.

i'm continuously thinking, "oh god, this is a cliche, isn't. oh godohgodohgodohgod", and it's just that it -fits- and it makes things smoother, that's why i wrote it of course, but no, it's too predicable, too easy. romance -coupled- with adventure is the devil's own genre. why did i not realize this before? how do people get together aside from sex? it's like, all coincidence, isn't it?!?! gah!!

the demands of a plotted story are so different. it's really a process of discovery, realizing that once you start, you have things sort of -emerge- as consequences, and you realize -this- bit needs filling out and -that- bit needs to be cut and -this- bit needs to move down/up. suddenly it's taken on a life of its own for probably the first time of anything i've written, and the idea that it's all -bad- just kills me. because well, it's been done before, hasn't it. well, not -exactly this way-, but still. the thing is, i didn't write this to get harry & draco together, it's just that they're my favorite characters and of course they're always having to interact and hey, sexual tension is fun.
    basically, it's about harry and about draco, and not really about their love. but i can see how people would say that, because well, they do kind of have a thing for one another, it's just that if i'm writing a romance, it seems to be that plot would be an interruption and a contrivance, exactly. so really, it's best to write for the plot, if you're writing the plot. the whole -idea- of contrivance is that you don't really -mean- it about the plot, it's just there to... what? get your characters to shag? get them to like each other? well, what if it's there 'cause you want it there? but who would even -know- what the authorial intent is either way, and does it matter?

all right, i feel better now. i do care about the cute little things i'm saying about canon, and if people see that as contrivance for the one kiss harry & draco eventually have, well, i guess i didn't say them well enough, but at least i'd tried.
    it seems like a plotted fic where i am writing canon-based events is intrinsically different from my previous fics which mostly just used the hp characters' personalities to get them to talk or snark or act silly or fuck or think or feel bad. i don't tend to go beyond that, because it's fun to get certain reactions from characters. but to write a -plotted fic- just to get those reactions (that is to say, a snog or a fuck) seems like a waste of space to me. i've never actually been able to write The H/D of my Dreams before because i can't seem to write a whole mess of justifications just to get to some endpoint like "and then they lived happily ever after". i mean, i want to, but it seems like those are two different sorts of story. there's "characters act out X scenario" stories and then there are "X happens to characters, therefore they act in X manner" stories. the difference is the focus.

in a more plotty story, suddenly you are concerned with a time-line (which i'm usually not in a character sketch or situational comedy or smutfic or whatever). you aren't just thinking of a semi-static sense of "in-characterness", you're thinking of the -causes- for the characters reactions, and you're placing these causes in a temporal context, which means that just as in real life, the nature of what's "in-character" has to change within the time-span of the fic at least somewhat, for it to be even believable. events happen, people react to those events, new aspects of their personalities emerge. this isn't contrivance so much as inevitability.

i suppose what people are thinking is that "well, these characters would never act in X way, therefore the story's conceit of making them do so is a contrivance meant to achieve X result". but really, the point isn't for the characters together together, i think that's what i'm discovering. you can easily have an h/d or h/s story where they interact and have emotional/sexual tension and there is resolution other than "they break up, angst angst angst" or "they're together at the end, sexsexsex". because what we're dealing with are two characters within a larger canon and implied larger storylines. i realize that almost everyone and their brother attempts to get harry & love-interest to defeat voldemort together (if it's a "serious story" with canon-based aspirations), but that's really not necessary, i think.

what i'm doing is writing a story about two characters who will continue to have a relationship within the canon timeline (though obviously it will be made even more AU by the release of the 6th book). what i'm saying is, you can expect these characters to continue having some sort of association in the canon beyond the time-span of your story thus there is no need to tie up all loose ends or even speak the final word on their `relationship' of whatever sort, since they'll just keep having one anyway. unless, of course, you've set it post-hogwarts or at the end of 7th year. that's why i don't like writing those `at the end' or afterwards stories: you no longer have any lee-way. this is it. you have to basically do jkr's job except you're trying to complicate it by having it be a romance between characters who aren't attracted to each other, probably to each other's gender in general, and in fact can't stand each other. it's daunting. contrivances seem... a way out, i suppose.

another thing that's been giving me trouble is the concept of "this is how harry & draco should act post-ootp". their dynamic has shifted, and of course one has to address it. i wrote the initial plot-bunnies before the book, so now everything keeps shifting and reconfiguring and recombining, and this is how i've realized that my whole method of writing is different. i try -fit- my story to the (canon) timeline character development instead of just my idea of the static nature of the character whereas before i avoided messing with it because it seems like to write a believable timeline story you'd need to make it much longer than i'm comfortable with. timeline-based canonicity seems to require length.
    and of course the length and the idea of having to express what i feel about h/d in general and the needs of their particular characters is daunting. this might be where the fear of contrivance comes in-- you want to get to saying what you want, but you cheat because it's extremely difficult to get the desired result. like in math, you take certain things for granted because if you took nothing for granted, you'd sit there forever, arguing about the nature of reality itself. hehehee, which is what i do, of course.
    it's never the "right time" to explain the nature of love in a direct, concise, and believable way that doesn't suck.

in my own fic, initially i just threw things together without bothering to check if it fit some grand scheme of things. this is how i usually write: unconsciously, just picking ingredients based on some equivalent of taste and smell and whimsy. "seems good! throw it in!". i am now forced to do -this- but not -that- all the time: the story has its own demands based on its logical structure. and anything past a certain length seems to acquire its own logic somehow.

suddenly, instead of dancing all across the board like a madwoman, i am having to get from point A to point B in some sort of realistic manner. the characters (being harry & draco mainly) resist and don't -want- to do certain things (once you decide the plot wants them to), and they are hellish when uncooperative. some people say that harry & draco (or harry & snape or ron & draco) don't want to be together at -all-, and i can see that. but i don't think it's the whole truth. i think it's all about how you see it as the writer. i think you can write anything if you are capable of imagining it in enough detail, if your personal vision of the characters' dynamic is sweeping enough and has enough depth. basically, i think if you're a good writer, if you know the characters, if you're aware of the continuity and the timelines, then you can overlay your belief onto this matrix naturally, because that's just what writers do.

in a lot of h/d fics, certain hard-to-handle character traits become atrophied-- draco is nice for no discernable reason, harry is patient as a saint, draco has -always- had a crush, harry and draco aren't sniping at each other anymore with no good explanation (or even -with- an explanation), etc. this is usually a fault of the writer's lack of imagination and scope, as far as i can tell. if you can't write canonish!harry and canonish!draco getting together (or canonish!snape and canonish!squid for that matter), you basically shouldn't write it because that particular dynamic is not something you understand. and yes, it's possible that you're stupid and don't understand humans at -all-, but then, you can at least write about your confusion if you nurtured a habit of honesty (which is obviously too much to ask from most people, i know). and while it's not necessary to always write what you understand-- you can grow to understand things-- most people's writing seems to be a process of telling the reader what you already think you know rather than discovering (along with the reader) the things you know you don't know.

i think the whole idea of "contrivance" and the philosophy of writing therefore implied kind of says they all miss the point as i see it. because as a writer, you may have certain issues/characters/situations you're interested in, but it seems much more productive to explore them through your writing rather than force them into being something you secretly -know- they're not. if you're consciously using a plot-device to get a result, then you're saying your result is more important than the writing process and the -story- you wrote to achieve it, which is just not something i can agree with as a practice or, more importantly, an implied philosophy.
    in my own fic, even though i have a -plot- and a character-development arc in mind, i have no -point-. this is merely yet another step in their development as human beings. it's not like they've graduated from the school of life with all O's or anything.

that's what jkr is doing with her seven books: attempting to show the progression of at least one person through their formative years and just some of all the changes and challenges and side-tours involved, while keeping her focus on a rather involved overall plot. i am assuming most people outside of cassie claire aren't doing that. so all we can do is explore certain aspects, see where we can go with these characters-- but without the supposition that we'll end up anywhere static, because life doesn't work like that.

this idea of "contrivance" seems to imply this focus on end-goal, like a "happily ever after", which is just painfully naive. i can see how every story needs a climax, somewhere it ends up at. but if we think about our own versions of the -characters- outside the story (and hopefully we -can- do that), we can see that they don't really -end up- there-- it's just part of the journey. and yes, this whole philosophical clap-trap -does- have an intimate relationship to writing, as far as i can see, because if you -don't- have an idea of what you think of life in general and your characters in general, then what you're doing is a flat little exercise in meaninglessness and futility and the thought i'm left with at the end would be "so what", no matter -who's- together now harry & snape or harry & ginny or dumbledore & his hat.

so even if in the end, my story will look like those stories, i suppose i've decided it doesn't matter, since the process and the philosophy behind it has been quite different as far as i can tell. i've always -wanted- to write a "how they got together" story, and i've failed spectacularly so far. it's so... huge of an undertaking, so deeply connected to my ideas as to how life and love could/should work, that it just kills me. and only this background meaning can truly motivate me, because otherwise all i have is a bunch of mechanistic movement. it's like i'd be playing god with toy soldiers, and that is simply not why i write.

Comments

[shatterglass.livejournal.com]

While I am astounded by your grasp of the different sorts of stories there are - contrivance-riddled in the effort of getting the characters to fuck, stories in which the characters' traits are lost because they are too difficult to work with- I really brought another thing to say out of this entire post.

(being:) I want to read your fic! If you are this capable of realizing the problems that H/D writers and just slashers in general have with their writing, you will definitely have a unique story once you're done. :D I'm so excited. Hurry. Hehe.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

heheh. thanks for the vote of confidence. >:D although theory and practice aren't the same things. in fact, while in theory i'm actually a beautiful silver-haired elf on a mission of mercy to allow the most brilliant and gorgeous humans to humbly throw themselves at my feet, in reality i'm not even as cool as that purple-haired girl in `runaways', which is a comic you probably haven't heard of, but ><;;

anyway. observation & deduction is all well & good, but they won't help you -too- much when harry & draco are sulking in different corners and harry's like, "THAT BASTARD!! I NEVER WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM EVER AGAIN". and yes, they keep doing that. silly kittens. have to keep dragging them back by the scruff on the neck ><;;

[starflowers.livejournal.com]

Right, weren't you going to send me this story so I could read it? If you still want me to, I'd love to...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

heheh yeah! totally. um. i'm not -done- yet and... er... it's not exactly a chapter-by-chapter linear thing since i keep revising and going back and tearing bits off and growling... er.
yah. but yeah! i was counting on you! wheeeee! :D :D

just you know... can't write as fast as with short stories... damn it. just, the as-i-do-it angst is ....wow. i didn't know it -existed- but apparently it does for me. the worry that i'm doing it wrong, like it's just one great big virginity loss.

eheheheh ^^;

[starflowers.livejournal.com]

Oh, TRUST me, the as-i-do-it angst is something I completely understand. Especially in my first H/D story, because the readers of H/D are so much more... obsessed with the details and the cliches and such. In D/G, most of the readers LIKE the cliches. So yeah, I understand that fear, but don't worry, you're a brilliant reader with a really strong grasp of the mechanics of what makes H/D slash believable. You'll be FINE...

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*meeps*
well... i dunno if that alone would do it-- though clearly understanding things helps....
i mean.... i've long wanted to write "The Believable H/D Story" but the thing i was trying to say (it probably got lost in the shuffle as usual) is that i'm not -writing- traditional h/d love-story type thing, which is what allowed me to do it. you could say it's a story about the things that haunt us, you could say it's a story about dreams, or about the price we pay to be ourselves, or something like that. a story about possessions, blood-oaths, secrets, etc.

but it's not really about -love- and thus not so much "believable h/d" one way or the other 'cause i never actually have them be in a romantic relationship. the process of how they get there was always much more interesting to me (why does everyone insist on dotting all their i's? that's one thing that confuses me), but they don't even really "get together" in it. they just kind of -are- together, hang out, snark, fight, hate, tolerate, confuse each other, etc. eventually they get to some point where it's like they're protective of each other and of course there's desire there, but it's not really some full-blown "this is h/d as reena thinks of it".

because that is what's always intimidated me and i'm -still- incapable of writing it, that's what i was trying to say. i mean, i suppose it's easy to jump to the conclusion that i'm writing a longfic and i'm talking about harry & draco thus it's an h/d fic of the usual variety, but i don't think it is.

plus there's the whole, being a good reader doesn't make you a good writer thing. although i -am- a writer, good or not... i dunno if that's directly related to being a reader, still. i don't see a one-on-one correlation between talent in one and talent in the other. loads of critics are horrible awful writers. this is what they say: he's a critic 'cause he can't write, right? well~:)

i mean, i know you know i write, but for me, it's all so unconscious, as i'd said, that it's even less correlated than for the more logical plotty people. i just wing it, basically, when i write, no matter what i think i know~:)

and it's not so much that i want to accomplish some goal (i.e., "be successful" at writing the story, whatever that would entail), but more that there's a continuous challenge of the unknown for me (is this something one -does-? does -this- fit? am i doing this whole plot thing okay?) because well... i have -never- written a long plotted fic. never. i write short stories and that's it, and they're not exactly plot-heavy short stories. plots come to me, sure, and i can write, it's just the putting it together that's the problem, and i mean, i can read handbooks i'm sure, but it's still me and the fic and the insecurity and disinclination i have towards actual -work-. (wah! hate work!) heh.

i mean, think of it this way:
i'm 25, and i've been writing since i was -9-.
this really isn't an h/d issue at all~:) i can -do- h/d. can i write plotted long fics that hang together?.....

eh ^^;

[starflowers.livejournal.com]

I just wing it as well. I don't have plots in mind, I never take the time to lay out what will happen in my story, I just write and write and write until I have a fucked up and messy plot and then I pause and think "Ugh, well, how the hell am I going to resolve this?" and hopefully I can make it work out. Unbecoming is a bitch because it's very much fucked up at the moment and I have no idea how to resolve it, but that's a completely other story.

I've always been terrified of writing anything long. Before I wrote HP fiction, my longest story was 25 pages long, and I thought that was Sooooo long. It is intimidating, the whole trying to write a long story, there's a lot more commitment involved, because it takes so much longer to write. I think you can write a plotted long fic...

As for it being about Harry and Draco but not H/D, I think I get what you mean. Like, it's a relationship story but not a romantic one? Like... beyond Romance. Sort of, the thing I'm thinking of, is the Draco Trilogy, because that's very much a Harry and Draco story and yet it isn't H/D... if that makes sense.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

my plot keeps growing, but not linearly. it's like a trans-matrix weird form of fungus, spreading deeper and deeper instead of across. i don't make a lot of sense after midnight, don't mind me ><;;
but yeah, i just kind of add on and on, but in places i've already written, to make them -fit-. like, starting with a skeleton and adding muscle, except you add skin first and a kidney and then teeth. makes no sense but hey, they're all needed. also, for me in helps to talk about the fic. i think when i talk (aloud) differently than when i write. like you complain and complain and complain so you take your mind off it and then BOOM! GENIUS STRIKES!!

also, i just wanted to make a comment about fungus >:D<

i dunno if it's like the trilogy 'cause it -does- have sexual tension (not that the trilogy doesn't, but, you know. ahahahah) and i mean... it really isn't -platonic- 'cause it's not like h & d would become "twue fwiends" without some sort of mind-wiping drug... i don't really know, actually. i think i just get to the "okay, they have to deal with liking each other now" point of an h/d AND THEN I STOP, muwahahaha, 'cause my plot ends :D :D

heeeeeee ~:)

[starflowers.livejournal.com]

I do that too. Get all frustrated and then rant to someone and while I'm bitching about all my writing problems, I come up with the perfect, genius solution. Sometimes. Like, they'll ask a question about whatever I've just ranted about, and in my answer, there will be the perfect, genius idea that I'd never even realized before. it's always good.

But I do wanna read your story, so as soon as you are done... SEND it! hehe.

[shatterglass.livejournal.com]

Yes, but from your observations and deductions I can tell that you want your fic to be marvellous, and you know what marvellous is! And that's really what matters. (Or perhaps I am saying that to make meyou feel better about myyour difficulties with myyour fic. One can never tell.)
And I always hate it when I have no idea what someone is talking about and they KNOW I have no idea what they are talking about... Runaways. Should I try to find it? Is it good?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

wah, i just got your username for the first time. alas, i am slow -.-

er, yah, you should check out `runaways' if you like comics about superheroey-type stuff. hehehehe. er. it's not your usual superheroey-type stuff and it's wonderfully drawn and everything, though. and it has like, cute teenagers snarking, so there's that.

i'm of the opinion that it's the -writing- (like, raw talent) that matters more than anything. wahahah since that is what impresses me in others. i mean, honestly, more than half of the great fic out there is horridly out of character.

honestly, there is not one well-known chaptered h/d fic that -is- in character. muwahahahaah. *condemns everyone wholesale*

no, it's true >:D<
*meeps* so yeah. i mean, you can say, "well, i've read your work and you're great"-- that would be a valid argument. but like, "i've read your crit and it's great"...eh. not so much, y'know? *laughs*

although it's nice to be known for something~:)

[shatterglass.livejournal.com]

Shatter_glass is because of the scene in OotP, yeah, but also because there is a book by the same name by Tamora Pierce. I can get across two of my obsessions in one fell swoop! Hurrah!

I'll look for Runaways - maybe I can coerce my library into finding it for me. I'm so broke - I've been spending all the money I earn all summer on manga. Meep.

Yes, I see what you mean about the pure talent mattering more than the intelligent ideas you have for your characters, but you need to have both to have an awesome fic, and since you have one of them... the other one can be made up for by persistance and reading a lotta books. I think. (read: hope. Can you tell I'm trying to convince myself here? LOL. My first fic is in the making, and I decided to make it a full length bargain. How... stupid of me.)

And I understand about the OOC-ness of the chars in the fics out there, too... Actually, though, I think that Underwater Light!Draco is pretty IC... *ponders*

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

*giggles!*
you sound a little as if this is -my- first h/d fic, too, whereas by now it should be obvious what writing-related gifts i have and which i don't. it's far from the truth, you know. i've written oodles of fic. like... here (http://reenka.expecto-patronum.net). they weren't long-fic, but i did that too, actually, i just never finished it. i tried to write long-fic as my first hp fic too, but then realized that i was biting off more than i could chew. still, it was a useful exercise -.-

and, i would say that ul!draco is in-character based on a certain interpretation of draco (which is to say, maya's). like. a lot of people would disagree with that interpretation, 'cause um... they don't see a lot of redeeming qualities in draco as-is, and they don't think he's that intelligent and cutely snarky and that his jokes are stupid and juvenile and that he's basically just a gimp. in-characterness itself is a tricky thing since it depends on subjective reader interpretation :D :D

but she'd definitely -changed- draco by showing similar traits in a different light, see. maybe that's unavoidable, but. the most in-character draco that i can think of, ever, is in miss breed's fic, though she's written only very few. that is, `red' and `beware the fury of a patient man'. maybe i'm just particularly partial to him, i don't know. i think maya's draco is about as in-character as silviakundera's draco-- which is to say, pretty in-character, but skewed by it being comedy, him being largely sympathetic, and harry being indulgent, and there being little real rage and violence and the issues not being as severe as i think they are. i mean, there's violence in ul, but i think the violence had always been -harry's- response to draco, and now it's pretty much gone and harry's completely enamoured. hmmm. actually, harry being so enamoured and trusting is pretty ooc... but inevitable because you're writing a friendship/romance fic so theoretically they can't hate each other. and stuff.

even so, i think ul!harry lets go of an awful lot of baggage awfully fast. then again, ul!draco is utterly adorable, which is again a questionable trait. canon!draco -can- be interpreted sympathetically, but you'd really have to try, whereas you don't with ul!draco. i think, in the end, you'd need an unsympathetic!draco and a semi-unsympathetic!harry to be truly canonish. heh. a lot of people don't like harry in canon and the way he acts, and don't approve of his actions. a lot of people -hate- and despise draco in canon. to remain canonish, i think they should stay not-quite-sympathetic even if their actual actions differ. but everyone shies away from unsympathetic characterizations... well, not everyone. hehehe. penelope z doesn't :D :D

though her draco isn't really in-character as per strict canon, she's great at writing yucky character traits. same with silvia, though they're cute anyway. but yeah -.-

[shatterglass.livejournal.com]

Ah, and you act as though we don't see any talent in the shortfic you have written. From the short stuff I see potential for a good long fic. So. There. Take that. (Haha.)

And I think that our definitions of OOC are slightly different, maybe that's why we're having trouble figuring out exactly what we mean - you are explaining that the spin that JKR puts on Draco is that of the entirely unsympathetic one dimensional character, and that changing that viewpoint is, effectively, making him OOC. I think more along the lines of that changing his behavior without time and good reason is making him OOC - adding dimension to him is just like adding backstory, and so he can be IC and still semi-nice, just that you have to take him there. You can't just spring it on the reader. Like, I'd agree that Plu's Draco in DID is pretty OOC because I don't think that becoming blind would be reason enough for Draco to have a full about face. But the Draco in, for example, DT, had been given time to get to know (and love) the characters that we sympathize with in canon, and so there isn't a place you can put your finger on a monumental change in Draco, just a gradual shift so that Draco's loyalties lie elsewhere than the Slytherins. And loyalty is something you can play with, with Draco, because he can be perceived as a very loyal character in canon without squinting much at all. He is just kind of confused about what deserves his loyalty.

Whew. Big ramble. Go me.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

wah. i was saying that i wrote fic so i mean, you could see what i can and can't do at least 80% from -that-, but i didn't mean i thought it sucked. i have problems, but i'm well aware i suck much much less than 80% of the people wrote write fanfic, anyway. i don't have self-esteem problems, i'm just insecure about the things that are difficult (er... mostly my confidence in plot-creation and follow-through. my characterization has gotten better, and no wonder, since i wrote 90% of my fic before i read the books, so it's not so bad, actually. haha. um. but yah, i've written several pieces i'm rather proud of, though none are h/d. i'm quite happy with my hermione piece, for instance, my old r/h/hr and maybe `linger', though it has issues, since all of them were/are departures for me.)

i wouldn't say we disagree about the definition of ooc as needing good reason & backstory. we probably disagree on the specifics of what is a good reason and what's plausible. i was saying that as far as a philosophy of the psychology of human beings, i believe that people only change so much, no matter -what- reason they have. they remain basically themselves. it's like... they become -other- things, things people haven't noticed about them at some earlier point, but they always retain their other traits within them, ready to be brought out by the right circumstances. say... in the DT, draco is regressing after he thinks harry betrays him, which i think is great. see? regressing. he only changed so much, really.

"semi-nice" is a large, large, HUGE honkin' problem for me. i see draco as tolerable, as interesting, as understandable. semi-nice? please. only if he -has- to be, and never to people he dislikes. do you think -snape- could've been semi-nice with the right impetus given around mwpp-time? *scoffs* he could be -happier-, more balanced, more content, etc, but niceness is overrated as well as really rare. ron isn't really nice, and neither is harry (harry might be meaner than draco, actually). but that's a rant for another day.

anyway, i don't think "a full about-face" is possible or -desireable-. why would you want -draco- to have a full about-face? why not use neville to start with? what's so interesting about draco if he has a full about-face? he becomes a limp little noodle, if you ask me, not that he isn't already~:)

in the DT, draco's changes have been brought about by what one might call contrivance-- ie, polyjuice potion, spells, enforced contact, etc. and he's a bit of a unique character by now, so far-removed from his origins and so amazingly gorgeous and stunning and complex, that he only barely resembles that whence he came from. loyalty isn't the only thing at play in his character or that has been played with. for instance, he isn't very snarky or witty in canon-- not like harry. he just has stupid juvenile jibes about things like harry's mother & such. he didn't have more than maybe one good line in all of ootp. well, there are a lot of reasons why i wouldn't say DT!draco is in-character anymore (though he kind of started off in-character originally), and it's not because you can't have a character progress, it's just that once they progress past a certain point they really are like a different person.

some people in real life say this about themselves: "i'm not the person i was when i was younger"-- though barely a year has passed for DT!draco. but even so, those people totally sever themselves from who they used to be, thus "in-character" becomes something of a moot concept.

DT!draco is a complex case. almost no-one has developed their characterization of draco to that extent, and i think it's almost like different rules apply to him. it's easier to debate the in-characterness of silviakundera's draco or miss breed's draco or deche's draco, because they resemble canon from start to finish-- and of course, those are short-story writers.
back-story is fine. but even -with- backstory, you need to retain certain vital characteristics, and not just one or two. it takes -decades- for people to really change, and if you -do- change draco that much, as i said, what's the point of writing about him?

i don't need him to be one-dimensional at all-- i -need- depth, i just don't think depth equals semi-niceness ~:)

[shatterglass.livejournal.com]

Don't be doubting your plotting ability! Positive thoughts! Heh.

Yeah, I see what you mean about using Neville in the first place. :D And although nice!Draco fics may be cute/fun to read/enjoyable in a stupid sort of way, they aren't as great as an IC Draco fic (if we could find one - lol).

I think maybe the nice!Draco fics come from an author's desire to play around with just what we are discussing, how much someone can really change, maybe, and all of that. Even if it is done in a completely unbelievable way. They don't want to start with Neville because Neville was always nice - nothing there to play with. I agree about certain characteristics being there and not coming out and that is the only aptitude for change that people have - some people just don't have the capacity to do certain things. I just have a lot of faith in fanon!Draco, as in I can see him having a lot of emotion underneath what he is like in canon, and so I can believe him acting very different than we are accustomed to, and it is made more enjoyable by the incorporation of his canon!Draco characteristics. Like, how DT!Draco is capable of being so flat out mean to Seamus, (and we just forgive him because we love him to pieces!) while he is something that resembles kind to Harry and Hermione. I think that the fandom's obsession with Draco is trying to figure out what is under Draco's facade - does he have the capacity for kindness and love under there? Buried really deeply? I think maybe.

And how people say they have changed so much from when they were a child - well, these school years, the teen years, are, I believe, one of perhaps two or three points in your life when you form a definite idea of yourself, and thus it is Draco's oppurtunity to let himself be something besides a snot. Like James. He's only a teenager. (?)

And the only time I label something strictly OOC is when there is no logical progression - so even though DT!Draco is a different person now (!) it was done in a very believable fashion so I could never label him OOC.

Haha, and now I'm laughing at my own semi-nice. I should really proofread these things more carefully. Nice is such a terrible term. *bonks self on head*