![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
reenkai heard many good things about "mirror of maybe", a harry/snape fic. i was told that even people who didn't like harry/snape and thought it was unlikely, liked this, because it was just -so- well-written. so i browsed it. and seeing it, made me come back to a niggling question i've had at the back of my mind for several days now.
there's nothing more off-putting in an otherwise decent piece of writing than being told everything. i realize people like it because it makes everything clear, but i find it's almost anathema to what i consider art. it's not a question of cliche, really. it's when i'm told, in minute detail, what to think and what to feel. i'm given what is on a silver platter and expected to just-- swallow it.
i'm not talking about the large scale-- fics that start off saying something like, "it was a thursday, and draco realized he hated the smell of pansy's perfume, thus he must have secretly loved harry from day one." although in "mirror of maybe", you definitely get that too. it's just-- everything. i try to resist saying there are rules, or patterns to follow. mostly because there'd be no point. still, it would be good if but isn't it obvious that you're not doing so good if you find yourself writing things like, "and their kiss was splendid." or, "it was the best night of his life". there are much more subtle and insiduous ways to do stuff like that, too.
for instance, you could go and describe something down to the minutest detail, step by step, just to make some moral/psychological point at the end of it. and i don't mean at the very end of the story. no, i mean stories where everything seems to come down to a point. virtually all the time with a single scene. you're given the significance of what's happening, down to the character's most minute actions. and not only are you told this, but you're told in the most direct and simple phrasing possible.
everything seems to be just a bunch of statements, ie, "the sky is blue", "harry is sad", "the food was very bad."
this is what annoys me to the point of madness in jk rowling's writing, and the thing i basically cannot forgive her. "the mirror of maybe" has this same problem. and it's ok, you can like "the mirror of maybe" and the potter books, and i won't tell you you're insane, but please, don't say it's because it's so well-written.
people seem to like this sort of thing, on the other hand. lots of people like both "the mirror of maybe" and the jkr's books. they don't seem to have any sensitivity to what i consider a gaping hole in someone's writing talent. basically, it's an issue of enjoyment. most people just want to enjoy something they read, they don't care if it makes them think. they don't mind being spoon-fed everything, as long as it tastes good.
personally, i "just want to enjoy it" too. i let my brain go 95% of the time. i'm not some uber-thoughtful intellectual. ok, i'm uber-thoughtful, but it's really, really easy to turn off. but being force-fed my entertainment is disgusting to me. i want to emotionally respond to a story, to have it ignite something in me, to -relate- to it. i just seriously can't relate if i'm going to be told "how it is", every step of the way. is this unusual?
sometimes things straddle the border of being obvious and yet ambiguous. aja does this a lot. while her characters aren't exactly hard to read though, there are always things unsaid, always conflict arising from those things. without this basic ambiguity in externalized characterization, everything seems to feel flat to me, completely limp.
a really really bad story, in my book, is one in which all the emotional cards are immediately on the table. nothing changes except plot-- ie, people move closer together and further apart, but their minds stay static. i haven't read most of "mirror of maybe". i'll bet you anything that harry's not going to change significantly within this story. it's just the style of writing. we know who he is almost immediately, what he feels about major issues, and what he wants himself to be like. he is shown as very attached to (the author-given) characterization he starts out with, so we are sort of given a guarrantee that he's going to fight to keep it.
jkr isn't -as- bad. i think there is a vague possibility that some character change is going to occur in harry. in fact, that's the point, probably. but, i think harry is the only one, with the possible exception of ginny. draco is not going to change. in order for him to change, some sort of in-depth subtle characterization is going to have to occur, and you can't even do that with it all being filtered through harry's pov anyway.
mostly though, i'm uncomfortable with the little things, like the way every mood, every statement seems to be nailed down, 100% defined. not because i, as the reader can't -help- but see it that way, but because i'm -told- that's how it is. i can't get over that. it actually -pains- me, reading things that try to use me like that. i am being used by the story, basically. i'm not participating, i'm not allowed to make up my own mind. no, i am being lectured.
i tolerate this much more in visual media, ie movies & tv shows. i get my subtlety from the actor's expressions, from the various visual cues. or at least i try to. but in text-- there is only that: text. you are controlling the reader's world already. if you take that to an extreme-- the story becomes closed, its own little copyright-restricted universe where you can't enter.
funny, because most people say jkr leaves a lot of holes and open spaces in her characterization. and it's true, she has a spare style and a limited number of things she feels she wants to tell us that are -important- to the plot. because if it's not important to the plot, you can be sure she won't tell us.
but the technique is the same as where a writer spends paragraph upon paragraph describing and nailing down a character's mental landscape and beliefs, ala "the mirror of maybe". the only difference is how much is said, not the... type of substance.
erk. ran out of steam. oh well. more reading, less ranting, is a good thing. also, eating, sleeping, and uploading scans for silvia, ahahaha.
~~
in other news.
I AM DEAD~!!!
i can't believe i've never stumbled across marta, at `art dungeon' before.
this is the -sweetest-, most adorable ron/hermione pic, ever. EVER!! gaaahhhhhhh. ron+hermione=squeeeeeeee. and trust me. i can't -believe- i just wrote that. no, really. but, he is so, so, so the most adorable ron i've ever seen. completely. gah! ron! i can't believe i'm squeeing ver ron! but, there you have it. on the bright side, he looks kinda ooc, but this is my idea of yummy!ron -.-
then again, i seem to adore anything this girl draws, be it twincest, sirius/remus, the trio... ron/draco... omg. i am melted pile of gooooo, here. if you really hate ron/hermione, look at this or this and say it again. oh... my.... gahd, i want to write het, someone save meeeeee. *cries* this is most seriously one of the top 5 artists i've seen doing hp fanart. seriously. plus this has gotta be the cutest rugrat!harry ever.
and this wins the prize for the most canon-yet-cute ron i've ever seen. gah.
her draco is sooo canon. but, no harry/draco. *cries*
but, this sort of makes up for it. mmmmm, boys with swords (and, yes, i still want that fic). and, eeeee! he's so tragically misunderstood, hee!
also. as far as fanfic. venenatus.venustas is ok. i mean. you know. better than some, worse than others ^^
EDIT - eeeee~! isn't it sad, that my happiest thought at the moment involves getting a draco plushie for my harry plushie, because then i could make them cuddle together under a blankie!! ahahaha. yes. sad. i blame `clear' and all sleepy-cuddling fics everywhere ;p
there's nothing more off-putting in an otherwise decent piece of writing than being told everything. i realize people like it because it makes everything clear, but i find it's almost anathema to what i consider art. it's not a question of cliche, really. it's when i'm told, in minute detail, what to think and what to feel. i'm given what is on a silver platter and expected to just-- swallow it.
i'm not talking about the large scale-- fics that start off saying something like, "it was a thursday, and draco realized he hated the smell of pansy's perfume, thus he must have secretly loved harry from day one." although in "mirror of maybe", you definitely get that too. it's just-- everything. i try to resist saying there are rules, or patterns to follow. mostly because there'd be no point. still, it would be good if but isn't it obvious that you're not doing so good if you find yourself writing things like, "and their kiss was splendid." or, "it was the best night of his life". there are much more subtle and insiduous ways to do stuff like that, too.
for instance, you could go and describe something down to the minutest detail, step by step, just to make some moral/psychological point at the end of it. and i don't mean at the very end of the story. no, i mean stories where everything seems to come down to a point. virtually all the time with a single scene. you're given the significance of what's happening, down to the character's most minute actions. and not only are you told this, but you're told in the most direct and simple phrasing possible.
everything seems to be just a bunch of statements, ie, "the sky is blue", "harry is sad", "the food was very bad."
this is what annoys me to the point of madness in jk rowling's writing, and the thing i basically cannot forgive her. "the mirror of maybe" has this same problem. and it's ok, you can like "the mirror of maybe" and the potter books, and i won't tell you you're insane, but please, don't say it's because it's so well-written.
people seem to like this sort of thing, on the other hand. lots of people like both "the mirror of maybe" and the jkr's books. they don't seem to have any sensitivity to what i consider a gaping hole in someone's writing talent. basically, it's an issue of enjoyment. most people just want to enjoy something they read, they don't care if it makes them think. they don't mind being spoon-fed everything, as long as it tastes good.
personally, i "just want to enjoy it" too. i let my brain go 95% of the time. i'm not some uber-thoughtful intellectual. ok, i'm uber-thoughtful, but it's really, really easy to turn off. but being force-fed my entertainment is disgusting to me. i want to emotionally respond to a story, to have it ignite something in me, to -relate- to it. i just seriously can't relate if i'm going to be told "how it is", every step of the way. is this unusual?
sometimes things straddle the border of being obvious and yet ambiguous. aja does this a lot. while her characters aren't exactly hard to read though, there are always things unsaid, always conflict arising from those things. without this basic ambiguity in externalized characterization, everything seems to feel flat to me, completely limp.
a really really bad story, in my book, is one in which all the emotional cards are immediately on the table. nothing changes except plot-- ie, people move closer together and further apart, but their minds stay static. i haven't read most of "mirror of maybe". i'll bet you anything that harry's not going to change significantly within this story. it's just the style of writing. we know who he is almost immediately, what he feels about major issues, and what he wants himself to be like. he is shown as very attached to (the author-given) characterization he starts out with, so we are sort of given a guarrantee that he's going to fight to keep it.
jkr isn't -as- bad. i think there is a vague possibility that some character change is going to occur in harry. in fact, that's the point, probably. but, i think harry is the only one, with the possible exception of ginny. draco is not going to change. in order for him to change, some sort of in-depth subtle characterization is going to have to occur, and you can't even do that with it all being filtered through harry's pov anyway.
mostly though, i'm uncomfortable with the little things, like the way every mood, every statement seems to be nailed down, 100% defined. not because i, as the reader can't -help- but see it that way, but because i'm -told- that's how it is. i can't get over that. it actually -pains- me, reading things that try to use me like that. i am being used by the story, basically. i'm not participating, i'm not allowed to make up my own mind. no, i am being lectured.
i tolerate this much more in visual media, ie movies & tv shows. i get my subtlety from the actor's expressions, from the various visual cues. or at least i try to. but in text-- there is only that: text. you are controlling the reader's world already. if you take that to an extreme-- the story becomes closed, its own little copyright-restricted universe where you can't enter.
funny, because most people say jkr leaves a lot of holes and open spaces in her characterization. and it's true, she has a spare style and a limited number of things she feels she wants to tell us that are -important- to the plot. because if it's not important to the plot, you can be sure she won't tell us.
but the technique is the same as where a writer spends paragraph upon paragraph describing and nailing down a character's mental landscape and beliefs, ala "the mirror of maybe". the only difference is how much is said, not the... type of substance.
erk. ran out of steam. oh well. more reading, less ranting, is a good thing. also, eating, sleeping, and uploading scans for silvia, ahahaha.
~~
in other news.
I AM DEAD~!!!
i can't believe i've never stumbled across marta, at `art dungeon' before.
this is the -sweetest-, most adorable ron/hermione pic, ever. EVER!! gaaahhhhhhh. ron+hermione=squeeeeeeee. and trust me. i can't -believe- i just wrote that. no, really. but, he is so, so, so the most adorable ron i've ever seen. completely. gah! ron! i can't believe i'm squeeing ver ron! but, there you have it. on the bright side, he looks kinda ooc, but this is my idea of yummy!ron -.-
then again, i seem to adore anything this girl draws, be it twincest, sirius/remus, the trio... ron/draco... omg. i am melted pile of gooooo, here. if you really hate ron/hermione, look at this or this and say it again. oh... my.... gahd, i want to write het, someone save meeeeee. *cries* this is most seriously one of the top 5 artists i've seen doing hp fanart. seriously. plus this has gotta be the cutest rugrat!harry ever.
and this wins the prize for the most canon-yet-cute ron i've ever seen. gah.
her draco is sooo canon. but, no harry/draco. *cries*
but, this sort of makes up for it. mmmmm, boys with swords (and, yes, i still want that fic). and, eeeee! he's so tragically misunderstood, hee!
also. as far as fanfic. venenatus.venustas is ok. i mean. you know. better than some, worse than others ^^
EDIT - eeeee~! isn't it sad, that my happiest thought at the moment involves getting a draco plushie for my harry plushie, because then i could make them cuddle together under a blankie!! ahahaha. yes. sad. i blame `clear' and all sleepy-cuddling fics everywhere ;p
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 01:45 am (UTC)You're eloquent in ways that I can only dream of, even in portuguese (first language)
Er.. I just really wanted to show my appreciation.
Thank you so much for the Art Dungeon link... Off to ogle lovely art.
no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 03:06 am (UTC)Just let me say "amen" to a lot of the things you said! And welcome over to my LJ.
http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=pingviini&itemid=35536#cutid1
no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 08:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 08:34 am (UTC)Guess I'm just not that good....
The Sad Truth
Date: 2003-01-29 09:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 10:51 am (UTC)"Subtle and Complex. Captivating. Polished Literary Perfection."
It actually says that!
And every now and then as I try to tredge through this misguided attempt at meaningful writing I just want to bash my head in because the spoon feeding is either right there or I'm paranoid over it. I hate it in Harry Potter, I hate it in fics to the point of brining out the eye gouging spoon and I hate it when I fall to the temptation of "the telling". I think it takes some raw talent to escape it completely and convincingly, to produce a kwality piece of emotion-gripping writing and raw talent takes years and years to fake.
/random on topic comments
Re: The Sad Truth
Date: 2003-01-29 12:53 pm (UTC)w00t! talent~:)
but. um. i think jkr is particularly bad, in terms of the things that annoy me in writing. not all newbie writers have the same flaws, and not all things go away with time.
some things seem to be a mindset. ie, i tend to write confusingly. it's being slightly helped by more practice, but mostly, that's just how my brain works.
but oh, i've noticed she's got problems from the first page i read of hers, at which point i shuddered and threw the book down~:)
no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 04:33 pm (UTC)there are levels to these things. i wasn't saying that only really obscure writers are any good, because that would be me, being dumb. ahahah. damn, i'd hate that ^^;
you can be clear. you can be straight-forward (as i said in my post) without lecturing.
hopefully things are clear, no matter what style/vehicle the writer uses to get the point across.
the important thing is not to hit your reader over the head, at which point the reader (me) goes, ow! oww! owwwwww!!
i just want things to happen-- feelings, actions, dialogue-- without having the cliff's notes version of the thing right within the story.
example.
"To hell with you, you fucking rotten bastard, rot in HELL!"
vs
"Bastard!" He growled angrily, and threw him against the wall, feeling really violent. As well as horny.
[kind of bad/redundant, but ok]
vs
And Harry was really really angry, because Malfoy just didn't see his secret love, and he was acting like a complete brat, but of course Harry knew that was because of his bad childhood, and he sort of forgave him, but he sort of was REALLY REALLY MAD anyway. He knew this got him really hot, and this was likely to degenerate into a shagging session during which they will reaffirm their love, but that's ok, he wasn't thinking. He thought.
see?
ehehehe :D
even this:
"You're such a stupid Mudblood," Draco sneered evilly.
yuck. that's jkr for you (no, not a direct quote, but you get the idea~:)
hee ^^
no subject
Date: 2003-01-29 04:40 pm (UTC)years and years to fake. ahahaha. i like that.
well. it's ok if you're not a subtle literary genius, i won't run away in shock and horror from any story that isn't "Subtle and Complex. Captivating. Polished Literary Perfection."
but.
that doesn't mean it's ok to be REALLY REALLY BAD :D (ie, like "the mirror of maybe")
ahahah. that's really all i was saying~:)