reenka: (Default)
[personal profile] reenka
You know, before I spent too long in fandom, I had squicks. Now I just have preferences and a whole lot of pet-peeves, where it's just that you'd have to work harder to please me if I've a peeve about it. Like, y'know, I remember in the good old days, where Kirk/Spock sex pretty much squicked me, even if I liked the idea of the pairing a lot; I couldn't get over my adolescent vision of them. I remember when Ron/Draco and Snape/Draco and even Harry/Hermione seemed Deeply Wrong... and now I just don't prefer them. I remember when H/D was the alpha and omega of my fannish universe and I had all these ideas about how it 'should' and 'shouldn't' be done (and okay, I still have those), but I've become quite lax about thumping my chest and hyperventilating, alas.

Anyway, I meant to talk about a specific comment in this Wincest squick post, but it also made me think a bit, 'cause yeah, the sheer prevalence of that reading of a show's canon bothers me a bit-- though that's my 'canon, bitches!' thing, not any anti-incest squick, exactly; actually, I don't think I've ever had a 'traditional' squick in the sense that it's based on my real-life beliefs (I mean, I tend to like characters in fiction I'd probably clobber in real life, for a start). Like, if it's well-written, anything challenging or transgressive can only make the story more interesting, as far as I'm concerned; for examples, look to the many instances of incest in classic literature and also some of the best genre lit of today (okay, mainly Song of Ice and Fire). I cannot imagine seriously reading something good and then stopping and going, 'but this is WRONG, HOW COULD THIS BE??! NOOOoooo'. If I really felt like that, I mean, I wouldn't have graduated from books for toddlers, because isn't there always something unpleasant and 'wrong' and unfair even in (good and/or classic) children's books?

    (Btw, this is where some of my friends woujd just say I'm not a critical enough reader, so I clearly suck. Hehe. Because yeah, while I was careful to say 'well-written' and 'good' stories, the truth is I also suspend a lot of judgment/personal issues/disbelief when reading stuff I just... like a lot for whatever reason. I wouldn't call it a 'kink'; like, I don't have a 'kink' for HP canon, y'know? Most of the time the only reason I'm critical is when I either really love something or really hate it, usually because of aesthetic/story-construction reasons. This mostly applies to stuff that's really bad. How do I explain it. It applies to purple-prosey fantasy books with ass-stupid names & the majority of post-OoTP fanfic I read, hahaha; it very rarely applies to content, in other words, and only to execution-- the big exception being OOCness in fic and stuff I find relentlessly bleak. Because I'm a huge romantic dork. But I try to keep that under control. :P So yeah, it's a personality issue, basically, and one I can't really do anything about, so nyah.)


In any case, I'm veeeery touchy about actually projecting slashiness on any canon... and in fact I can't think of any where I would do so with all honesty. There's liminal cases like Star Trek, The Sentinel and Gundam Wing, but I wouldn't go so far as to explain anything that happened with the characters through that lens. It's just subtext, take it or leave it.

Aaanyway. It's funny because I have the exact opposite reaction-- usually if something squicks me in text/theory, it squicks me less in a visual representation, because I'm more of an aesthete-- I always look at art as an 'art piece' first and a 'statement' second; in other words, I can easily disengage any moral/ethical/other biases and just enjoy the pretty because pretty is what matters with visual media to me. This is why I have no hard pairing preference with fanart, for instance, and why I tolerate and enjoy extreme cheesiness in fanvids of the sort that'd make me run screaming from a fic.
    Coincidentally, it's also why the 6A/LJ wank sticks in my craw like mad. It's really the art-critique aspect that drives me mad, the double-standard where fanfic is okay but fanart isn't-- fanart needs to be judged by outsiders who don't have the first clue what they're looking at. That just drives me mad. Visual art just... the idea of judging it in such pedestrian terms without even realizing that's what you're doing-- it makes my blood boil.

Regardless, I meant to just quote [livejournal.com profile] harriet_spy's comment:
    To be honest, there's no way you can take a dynamic that hinges even a little bit on transgressiveness, have ten thousand squeeing fangirls stampede over it, and have anything left but flatness.

I just thought that was really... very true. And it really applies to some of my favorite pairings (*cough!*) rather than just Wincest. It's not that I hate fluff... it's that I'm just so bored & frustrated by the sheer glut of narratives that make the transgressive and raw as acceptable and 'easy' as possible. Actually, the reason I wouldn't ship Wincest is probably because you can't reasonably expect it to be remotely healthy or resolvable in any positive way-- and I'm still a romantic. It's kinda figures that the incest is intinsically everyone's problem, but yeah. This definitely reminds of the sheer flatness I felt before I stopped reading H/D altogether; this sense that the pairing has become... completely predictable and 'easy' (in fandom, not in canon). I can't really think of a transgressive pairing that actually consistently captured its own problematic areas... which is why I'm really way too wary to read S/L, but oh well.

Date: 2007-08-23 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Oh, with HP in general.... mostly it's history but I still feel close to it. Like, I want to go to next years con and I still love talking about canon (when I get a chance to) and so on. I don't mean ancient history? It is, of course, very recent history, but... there's a sense of a relationship that is defined rather than developing, and that relationship is to a whole complete canon now. So it's not just fond reminiscence yet for me either!

I shouldn't have said 'just like you', but then you're always saying I'm your one connection to fandom :> Funny, I thought I wasn't really part of fandom for more than a year now :)) Nearly all my friends aren't in fandom, really, and most of them don't even like HP, per se (besides you and a few others). But that doesn't matter-- the point is that my love for canon is totally live & kicking, so I suppose I shouldn't call it history, except that history has many layers, and a lot of them are still alive. :)

Date: 2007-08-23 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
No, you are right though, it is history to me, why do you think I moved off LJ in part, you know? I just. Don't want to admit it to myself sometimes, I am way too attached to all this deep down, it is not as easy as I pretend to cut all ties and everything.

Date: 2007-08-23 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I don't want to cut all ties either :(( I mean, okay I don't really read fic anymore but I never cut all ties :(( That's not what history means to me, anyway; I probably keep closer ties with my past than my future, though, I mean, I do the migrating crab thing too (well! I'm a Cancer!)... so it's okay to stay attached. It's okay to keep it. It's okay to still believe in it the way you used to, even if you stopped following the thread of that belief into the future. I think, anyway. You don't have to leave everything behind; you don't even have to leave in the sense of... leaving pieces of your heart behind. You can take it all with you. <3.

Date: 2007-08-23 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
I just read Maya's last fic and it made me feel all these things more - in love with HP, the knowledge that it's ended, the fact that it will always be part of me, the fact that it's still gone :| kdfjs I know it's so stupid to feel so strongly about it when everything important in my life is still going on, but it's like when NA ended, I rarely talk about it but I'm still not over it, nor will I ever be.

Date: 2007-08-23 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Maybe I should read it. Wah. Why do I have this block about fics :(( What was the last fic I read, even? I can't remember.

It's not stupid, anyway. I feel strongly about it too-- probably more strongly than about 'real life' things, but then I was always like that, haha. I was kinda taken aback/sad when Maya said this is her last fic. But I might have read it if the word 'epilogue' wasn't involved :)) Man. I prefer epilogues to stay far away from fanfics :>

Maybe I should write my own fic to deal with DH more fully.

BUT NO I SHOULD FINISH THE ONES I HAVE lakjsflja. Maybe when they're done, I'll know what to say. Knowing me, it'll probably be gen :> I just got HP paper party plates at the supermarket yesterday 'cause I couldn't resist lkjfaslkjsakjfa oh man.

Date: 2007-08-24 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
You should read it maybe :-? It's not the definitive fic I was looking for post-DH but I didn't expect it to be, I don't expect anyone to have written that yet. I sort of hope someone will do it for BBB3 but for once I'm not tempted to write it myself, maybe because I don't know how. I do think you should read it though?

I just want them to . . . interact again. I hate the idea that they're going to forget about each other. They aren't. "No one's going anywhere" . . . I wish. :(

Date: 2007-08-24 12:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Haha, but what's the definitive post-OoTP fic? The definitive post-HBP fic? Is the fic actually H/D? Does it involve Scorpius, etc? No way am I reading that, but ^^;

I don't think they'll forget. I mean, they don't mean the same things to each other, but people grow up... which can be worse than forgetting, 'cause you become 'mature' and gain 'perspective', but you can always write some cute yet telling with about Auror!Harry who's not married yet and Ginny who's out of the picture (like, gone for a round-the-world trip to give them both a bit of space before the Big Decision or... whatever) and I'm sure Draco'll come up -somehow- in Harry's business. Heh. He's a Malfoy and I'm sure he'll try something to get his family back in good terms in the wizarding world to get them to the halfway respectable status we see in the epilogue; plus, Harry still has his wand!! I think they all interact with each other at least in some way within their own generation especially, 'cause the Wizarding world is so small and the number of people who are at the forefront of it smaller (and both Draco & Harry mean to be in that number).

So Draco will always be trying to get his own slice of pie that Potter's always going to be interfering with somehow, I'm sure :))

Date: 2007-08-24 01:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
I guess I meant, definitive in terms of what I want to have felt after DH, I don't know :( Okay yes there is Scorpius and it's not H/D but I still really think you should read it.

See, I feel so complicated about what I want from H/D post-DH that I feel like I SHOULD write it, I just . . . don't feel like I have it in me right now. Maybe I don't even have the belief in me, not enough :( We'll always have NA :(

Date: 2007-08-24 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Me too! That's what I meant, definitive in terms of how I felt-- I definitely could never really read anything that reflected how I wanted to feel post-OoTP entirely unless I wrote it myself, partly 'cause 'how I felt' was so complex and intense and well... picky :> Post-HBP, what I wanted was Trio gen and Harry/Snape murderous confrontations of angst and lust (Snape/Lily would've been an awesome addition I hadn't thought of). Post-DH I want pre-epilogue Harry gen, Snape/Lily & Dumblewald :D The only fics that 'worked' for me post-OoTP emotionally were actually the Sirius fics, either Bring Back Black or grieving fics; those, people did really well. I want gen where Harry processes his grief and sense of responsibility & his feelings re: Remus & Dumbly and Snape some more & looks in on Teddy and Malfoy and gets himself another owl and maybe go with Hermione to Australia, that sort of thing.

It'd be neat if Draco was in Australia, but now I'm just thinking of Abaddon :))


I'm skeered of the epilogue :( Agh. It was enough just making my peace with it in canon, I don't want my peace disturbed :( My preferred feeling about the epilogue is 'leave it alone and I'm fine' :))

Date: 2007-08-24 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
I want gen where Harry processes his grief and sense of responsibility & his feelings re: Remus & Dumbly and Snape some more & looks in on Teddy and Malfoy and gets himself another owl

That's sort of what my fic was trying to be, and a little me trying to tie up how I felt about the epilogue (really just H/G), whereas I think Maya's was post-epilogue tying up? READ IT REENA I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. It's not really - it doesn't disturb the epilogue, it just builds on it okay.

Date: 2007-08-24 12:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
Post-OotP, what worked best for me was Aja's Properties, Queen of Hearts, and Written; post-HBP was Durendal's The Very Magnitude of Guilt (which is more post-DH, adaptably) and Breed's Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys, sort of Quality of Mercy, and uh I think that's it :)) I will sort of tentatively count furiosity's and scoradh's BBB2 fics. All the rest of the things I've read since then, I've either forgotten or they're MWPP era, I think!

LDKFJS AUSTRALIA ABADDON LDKJFS

I always want genfic really, I have realized that all the H/D I love best can pass as gen. But well! It's always H/D to me.

Date: 2007-08-24 05:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Nothing worked for me post-OoTP because nothing had the intensity I wanted + the H/D resolution I wanted + the level of anger issues in Harry + the level of HBP-style 'I'll show you, Potter' on Draco's part. And then post-HBP I guess I didn't even read any of those fics, though I adore Durendal's and Miss Breed's writing, not to mention Maya's. >__> I liked Aja's 'Properties'! And of course I liked QoH (end especially) but it wasn't IT by far because... meh, super-gay!Harry, it seemed like. Of course, nothing could've really pleased me post-OoTP (except canon.... like if HBP was actually slash). Man, I feel like I should read those fics but I sort of... I don't know. I did like Ociwen's 'A Very Long Misadventure' post-HBP but the most I could say about it isn't that it satisfied me but that it didn't suck like everything else sucked. ^^;;

As for me, I didn't used to want genfic; it's really a function of me really & truly not believing I can enjoy or believe in H/D anymore as written in most people's fics. I had all this bitterness to work through around '04 and end of '05 (creeping into '06, but really I was over it by then), all this anger at fandom and frustration with everyone's writing and so on, where it was like my own H/D was twisting and becoming darker and angrier just as a response. I look back on it and it seems like such a bad time, those 2 years I spent hating nearly everything H/D fandom produced. I think I don't read fics 'cause I'm afraid I can't feel that high anymore 'cause I'd be so pointlessly unhappy & critical all the time. I dunno. I started BBB because of this bitterness having some hope attached and in the end it was already too late because I didn't read any of the fics. Ah well.

I might read Maya's fic. But. Well. The likelihood I'd like it.... I mean, I always enjoy Maya's writing itself, so I'd probably like it on some level, but ;_____; I'm just saying, I probably won't squee over it. :-?

Date: 2007-08-24 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
I never knew the extent of your fic hate, haha. You don't have to read the hugfic if you don't want to!

It's not that I want to squee, even, I just - I feel better, I guess :| Or. I don't know. Slytherin! And like. People can keep changing. And maybe things don't end when the world doesn't end. I DON'T KNOW kdjfs but I don't want to force you to do anything because I didn't know you completely stopped reading fic as completely as you always said, I guess I always thought you meant "pretty much completely" dlfkjs now I am really flattered/horrified that you managed to read Transformation even a little bit (I think you said you skipped to the end?) haha. Oh Reena. I've been reccing things left and right at you, too, haven't I! I think I assumed you were more like the way I am about fanart, I never see it at all unless you drag it in front of me. SORRY :))))

Date: 2007-08-24 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
No, I want to read the hugfic just like I always said, I wasn't lying or anything ;___; You and [livejournal.com profile] malafede (who won't leave me alone anyway) and that's pretty much it unless Aja or Shaggy or Aspen write something, hahaha-- I mean, these are the people whom I'd at least try to read (because I do get distracted a lot, too and then skim... *facepalm* I know I suck). ^^; Basically I have those few people I talked a lot about H/D with all these years and that have shaped my own understanding, that basically defined what H/D means to me, and so I'll always want to read anything in that vein (carefully said because I don't read Aja's PoT fics ahahahah). <3.

Hahah and yeah I really am not kidding about the level of angst I went through and how I went cold turkey :)) I suppose it's like... most people drift off naturally, but they don't do... this sort of thing if they're still remotely in fandom, right?? haha. I mean, I still watch vids, actively seek out fanart, read/write meta occasionally, etc, and I even enjoy talking about old fics I read. At some point I just cut off all fics... probably a few months before you finished Transformation. ;___;

Haha you just weren't around as much, maybe, during the angst furor period when I hated everything? :-? Oh man, I'd promised I'd beta furiosity's fic, I just rememberd. *FACEPALM* The heart is willing, but the mind avoids studiously. God, I need a keeper ><;;

Anyway, I actually still enjoy talking about fics, actually! I may read it just to talk about it with you! :)) I really don't think it's normal or anything, how invested I was in people both writing true to canon and resolving complex relationship things even JKR didn't bother to resolve. Oh and having it be well-written and even lyrical. I don't ask for much, y'know, just pretty much EVERYTHING :)) fsalfjkaslkjsfasfjks

Date: 2007-08-24 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
ldkjfs I started writing two fics today I hate my life :))))

Date: 2007-08-24 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
HEE!! SOMEHOW THAT IS SO SO ADORABLE <3333333333333 :))

And impressively productive, too!! :D

Date: 2007-08-24 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
Like always, I'm trying to combine them into the same fic, and merge that with my post-DH fic . . . eventually this always happens :))

Date: 2007-08-24 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
Omg, me too! I always try to merge my snippets. Man, I miss the days I wrote random snippets just because I had so many ideas :(( Okay so mostly they were stupid, but still. I'd write these random bits of dialogue on the bus that would never go anywhere and then a year later would integrate it into a novella haha. My scrap folder has 34 fic-bits, hehe.

Oh man. These are cute.
Harry Potter was not gay. He just wasn't. He wished everyone would stop assuming he was. He wanted Cho Chang, and that was final, goddamit. Draco was just fine with that. "Keep your arms and hands to yourself at all times" was his motto.

Staring at Malfoy had a perfectly good explanation, really. Someone had to keep an eye on the bastard, didn't they? Well, of course they did.


(that's all she wrote)

&

April Fool's day wasn't something wizards kept, though Fred and George had tried to start a tradition at one point. Even so, when Harry saw "Draco loves Harry" scratched into a tree near one of his favorite spots by the lake, he had to laugh. For a second there, he'd almost been... well, it was rather funny, wasn't it. Not as funny as it would've been if they'd scrawled "Harry loves Draco", but still hilarious. Before Harry knew it, tears of mirth were gathered in his eyes, and he had to lean on the tree to stand upright. He kept picturing a love-struck, simpering expression on Malfoy's face, the way his features might screw themselves into something the git would consider a "pleasant expression".

It would be priceless.

Of course, Harry never expected that love would leave Malfoy as sour as ever. If Harry paid attention to that sort of thing, in fact, he'd have thought that Malfoy might even have tripled or quadrupled his efforts at hating him.

Therefore, it came entirely as a surprise when Hermione whispered the news into Harry's ear at dinner that day.

Harry's eyes widened comically just as Hermione clapped a hand over his mouth. "Shhhh!" she hissed. "Do you want them to know you know?!" Slowly, Harry shook his head. "Good. Now I'm going to take my palm away, and you're going to continue eating, all right?" Harry nodded emphatically. "Right."

Harry chuckled. "You almost had me going there for a little while, Hermione. I've got admit, I didn't think you'd be into those sort of jokes."


&

He heard that on an ancient shore, somewhere beyond the rim, beyond knowledge and destination, there is a spot where the sea touches briefly, for a night. The sand is especially smooth there, and it smells rather like moss and those tiny, prickly flowers that make you dizzy if you inhale. It is the third moon since midsummer, and they are always there, tangled up, limbs twisting and making rounded dents in the wet sand.

They don't know their names, or their purpose. Like turtles and penguins and a myriad other creatures, they simply breathe each other's musk, lick the salt off each other's skin, move slowly, in unison, until their limbs turn to water. They say they're not human, and merely the sky and the sea, choosing this one night to join and create the impossible. Their bodies are silky-smooth, and their fingers slide against the surface of each other's shoulder and neck and chest, encountering no resistance. Their language is locked in a speeding heartbeat and the rhythm of a thigh, rising up off the ground, then falling back.

They are violent and bloody, tearing at each other's necks, their neeth so sharp, their hands so gentle as they stroke the other's back. They taste like the sea, merely salt and water and seaweed.


faslkjflasjfsajlf *spams*

Date: 2007-08-24 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amalin.livejournal.com
I don't have any old snippets, I deleted them all! I think I had one where Draco was in Azkaban and kept counting bricks. And one where Draco kept letting people Polyjuice into him so he could have sex with them. sdlkfjsf awful.

There is this fic that I read that I do not think is that special or wonderful, and I think it was written sort of clumsily, and yet it's really been sticking with me, I cannot even explain it :| I don't much buy the characterization and all the themes are hammered in too hard and yet I keep thinking about all these parts the way I do with fics I really, really love :-? I think I feel the way Cathy felt once, like I want to re-write it. Which is dumb. Anyway. Strange.

I WANT MORE APRIL FOOLS FIC :)))

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Date: 2007-08-24 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] discordiana.livejournal.com
malafede (who won't leave me alone anyway)

:/ I'll leave you alone if you want. Sorry.

Date: 2007-08-24 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
You shouldn't be so paranoid :P I didn't mean that in an 'oh noes!' sort of way, otherwise I wouldn't have said it publically, if anything :> You know. Relax :> That was in good humor :))

Date: 2007-08-24 09:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] discordiana.livejournal.com
You shouldn't be so paranoid

You know... I was relaxed before this comment.

Date: 2007-08-24 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
I forgot about the sensitivity to that word. Sorry ^^;;; Well. You said you'd leave me alone! I mean!! Is that relaxed!!!

Date: 2007-08-24 09:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yourpoison.livejournal.com
All this in context of your saying you're especially emo lately!! I mean! It's hard to tell! When you're 'just emo' or just being dryly deadpan or whatever! They. Sound the same >___> I give up >___>

Date: 2007-08-24 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] discordiana.livejournal.com
.... ;_; Why.

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