reenka: (a little obsessed?)
[personal profile] reenka
I have been... um, a little frustrated by the meta environment post-DH, shall we say. My only outlet has been Amalin, so it's to her this post is addressed, even though actually she hasn't frustrated me at all and this is addressing various others' points about people's ideas of the Draco characterization in the book.

But in fact I'd prefer if those people just didn't bother with me. I'm a boring sap and a crazy fangirl, y'know :> I'm not trying to be coy or passive-aggressive or anything, I just honestly have no will to debate anyone, so. :) Maybe it's disingenuous to post this? But it's just my little corner of the webz, no? I dunno. If you really wanna argue canon with me of all people, go ahead :D

    - Draco:

Seventh Year Timeline:
- 1) He's at the Manor, trying to fade into the furniture, and being used by Voldemort to do various things to/for the prisoners that he doesn't seem happy about. He stares at the hanging Muggle Studies teacher, seemingly hypnotized, then unable to look at her once she wakes; you (or, well, I) get the sense he's sort of gone into shock, completely out of his element with no obvious comfort from his parents and his very home invaded with death and the sheer blunt horror of events. He both hates all this and is sickly fascinated like he was with the Dark Arts artifacts in that shop in second year, except this time one doesn't get the sense Draco's having fun.

He falls out of his chair when the professor is Avada Kedavra'd, which even given there was a jerking/movement implies he was totally out of it moreso than the others (and he wasn't the only one freaked out/afraid at that point).

- 1a) Harry worries about him when he learns what's going on. Harry doesn't worry about people that don't deserve it, like say, Pettigrew or even Snape, for instance.

- 2) When Harry sees him next, Draco comes to look at him with his swollen face and Draco, significantly, is ambiguous about recognizing him. He actively turns his back(!!) on Ron and Hermione, acting as he he hasn't seen them that often or doesn't know their faces like the back of his hand by now, like Hermione hasn't bested him at Potions and he didn't know (and mock) Ron as soon as he saw him in first year on the train. Does he say, 'oh that's WEASLEY, our KING, blah-mockety-blah'? He has no reason to fear saying that; his level of safety and his prospects in general would only look up were he to say what he inevitably knew at first glance. His school nemesis and the boy he wrote a jaunty tune about in fifth year, and the Mudblood who he couldn't beat in his favorite subject.

All right, I'll come out and say it: HE LIES TO BELLATRIX. Why, right? This seems ridiculously significant to me because it's definitely intentional. Turning his back: this cannot be more obvious.

Btw, Harry wins Draco's wand from him after Draco 'joins the fight' (sort of feebly) to prevent them leaving at the last minute, and then chooses to use Draco's wand (which says a lot about the wizard who uses it-- the wizard influences and learns from the wand, after all, as much as the wand learns from the wizard), because that particular wand feels the most "friendly" and natural to him. I'm not making this shit up!! People! It's like there's a big blinking sign saying: "DRACO IS NOT BASICALLY JUST A NASTY LOSER COWARD, BECAUSE HARRY LIKES DRACO'S WAND".

I mean, in a book where Harry finds some measure of pity/understanding for both Snape and Voldemort through identifying with their experiences without feeling threatened by that, I'd say there's a significance to Draco's wand being friendly. Even though Harry still doesn't identify with Draco's experiences at all. I dunno, IT'S JUST A GUESS. :>

- 3) He stays(!) when all the other Slytherins have left, and waits for Harry outside the Room of Requirement, hiding behind Crabbe and Goyle and pointing his wand at Harry. This is after his parents are completely discredited and humiliated to the max, and have no power left at all; he's lost his wand to Harry and he's using his mother's. Still, he shows some bravado.

He goes on the old-style offensive: "That's my wand you're holding, Potter"-- but his "voice is brittle" referring to the past year, saying he "virtually lived" in the Room of Hidden Things. I get the sense he's traumatized but proceeding on sheer stubbornness at this point.

- 3a) He argues with Crabbe and a crack is shown in their power dynamic, because Crabbe says he doesn't have to "take orders" from Draco anymore, which suggests this has been on the move between them but crystallized when the Malfoys let the Trio get away (something Draco helped enable, btw-- just thought I'd mention that again). If I may speculate (and I may), I'd say Draco has no real choice unless he wants to put himself in direct danger from his "friends" as a blood traitor: and Harry hasn't exactly offered him an alternative or took Draco with him when he'd Disapparated with Draco's wand or something crazy like that, right?

- 3b) He tries to explain (with some exasperation) about the diadem and what Harry must be trying to do; Draco's still trying to be in the game, trying to prove himself (just like he promised at the end of OoTP). He apparently wants this chance to play the game-- what game there is remaining at this point, but I'd say Draco's a teensy bit desperate-- and is being reasonably cunning though definitely nonviolent (he doesn't hex or attack Harry & co in any way and generally seems to want to avoid another confrontation like in the bathroom... that one Sectumsempra must've been enough to show him Potter's not to be messed with without back-up).

He yells-- yells and shouts loudly (so his voice was "echoing through the room")-- at Crabbe, trying to stop him from killing Harry, because "the Dark Lord wants him alive", which is contrasted with Crabbe, who aims to kill and enrages Harry (btw, I doubt this is because Crabbe's a lot braver than Draco-- rather, he seems oblivious to every subtlety of the situation imaginable). Then Draco stops explaining and simply screams at Crabbe, "DON'T KILL HIM!"

I would say this is also significant but I don't want to put too fine a point on it; however, if anyone missed it: Draco REALLY EMPHATICALLY DOESN'T WANT HARRY DEAD. For whatever reason(s). Ahem.

- 3c) He ducks and "cowers" once the spells/hexes really start flying; I'm not exactly surprised. He doesn't want to fight and he doesn't want to get hit-- makes sense, right. At the same time, he tries to protect Crabbe and Goyle, pulling them out of the way of a Stunning Spell and then grabbing the Stunned Goyle and dragging him once the fighting really starts and Crabbe strikes out on his own with the Dark curse.

- 4) Next Harry sees-- well, hears him scream-- Draco's got an unconscious Goyle in his grasp, having dragged him up upon a "fragile tower of charred desks". Draco saw him coming and "raised one arm" (expecting and knowing Harry would save him... which I find really touching, btw), but he was too sweaty from the heat/fire, and Ron and Hermione had to drag Goyle on their broom before Harry got Malfoy on board his.

He screams at Harry-- "What are you doing"-- about diving after the diadem (not caring about anything but survival, but then Ron's not too happy about the situation either, having voiced his objections earlier); Harry's doing a lot of crazy dives and swerves to avoid the serpent of flame and Draco screams and holds on to him.

His first words once they're finally in the corridor and he's stopped coughing and retching are about Crabbe (who's dead). The same Crabbe that wasn't being the greatest of mates to him earlier.

- 5) He chooses to get up and dust himself off (leaving Goyle to his own devices?) and try for rescue from the Death Eaters ("I'm on your side!") Then he turns, 'beaming' at his 'rescuers' (which suggests to me that he's completely beyond caring at this point and just wants someone to offer protection but clearly didn't think Harry & co were really going to and besides, he didn't want to fight or do things for them, I'm thinking), and Ron sucker-punches him (since they-- not surprisingly-- thought Draco may come around after they, y'know, saved his arse, meaning there was some willingness to mend fences... but then Draco didn't seem too against it, though I'd say he wanted Harry & co to make the first move).

After the big showdown, he's seen 'huddling' with his parents, looking lost & unmoored.

I don't think any of this is a regression or a return to status quo; in fact, I think it's a believable progression and I personally am satisfied on the amount of progress given the plot events as they were (meaning, the plot would have to have been different for things to develop further). My overall impression is that Draco was hemmed in by several factors and actually afraid for his life (for good reason); he tries to have Agency where he can find it and makes several small but significant gestures to show something like early-Regulus level of discomfort.

I get the impression he's not playing the sort of game anyone else is (other Death Eaters, his minions or Housemates, his parents, Harry); in HBP he wanted to fiddle about with a small nearly academic-type project with the cabinet and in DH he wants to trap (but not directly hurt) Harry almost in the style of something a third-year might come up with. He's not just passively unable to participate in violence (like with Dumbledore on the Tower)-- rather, he actively tries to resist things reaching a certain point of no return, which I find really significant.

I just want to say I'm sick and tired of people saying Draco 'could' still be brave, potentially.

People. *facepalm*

HE'S A SLYTHERIN, OKAY. He started out as one in the first book, and he's still one in the last book. That's what it comes down to, basically. I just actually want to know what people are expecting from Draco that he hasn't done, I mean, realistically, knowing Draco. I know I just wanted him to make a big gesture and jump into the Trio's arms, say, after they rescued him, but how does he know that wasn't just a Gryffindor 'saving people thing'-- and then they just left him with Goyle in that corridor. They forgot about him and left him to his own devices, y'know, understandably, so basically Draco tried to take care of himself as expected. I'm sure if they wanted to call in a Life Debt or negotiate terms, Draco must have thought they could've... done that. The Gryffindorish assumption that of course now Draco would see the obvious way to behave in this situation is... um? Unfortunate, I guess; what's predictable is that Draco would fall back on what he knows.

It's not that I don't think he can be brave, it's that bravery isn't the same value it is in Gryffindor for Slytherins; like Slughorn and even like Lucius, it's typical for them to want to avoid an all-out full-frontal contest of power. Even SNAPE (widely acknowledged as brave by everyone in the text) doesn't actually show his bravery by direct confrontation but merely by indirect cloak-and-dagger methods where he tries to trick Voldemort and do as little as possible to help Harry as he can without arousing suspicion. Crucio in detention, anyone? Obviously taking a stand for righteousness wasn't on brave!Snape's priority list.

The fact is, this is a war, and these are Slytherins.

What, precisely, is anyone expecting from them in the first place? Not to be malicious and furthering enlightened self-interest while protecting their friends and not letting enemies/strangers die if they could help it (as Draco did! when he could help it, in fact!) seems to be the realistic scenario.

Anyway, that's my DH!Draco rant/meta-type thing. Thank you & goodnight :>

Date: 2007-07-30 01:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I still think it's funny you haven't read all of QoH, I quote that stupid line everywhere. Although lately the line that has been sticking with me, of all things, is Parvati's 'I hope I can change' from the very end of NA. I like that ending, and that promise.

If I finish this fic in the next day or so, you can read it too, I suppose!

I just keep wanting to watch OotP kdjsf this is pathetic.

Date: 2007-07-30 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
jfalsjkfsaljkf At this point it's like, I feel I should reread OoTP before rewatching because I don't want to MEMORIZE it and I feel I'm in danger of that >__> But I have no time to read if I wanna write! Dilemma!

That line is totally ingrained in my head now 'cause of you quoting it. Man. I really loved that ending, with Draco getting an 'O' for 'Outstanding' :((((( I WANT TO SEE THEM TAKE THEIR NEWTS, DRACO AT LEAST :(( *CRIES* DRAAACOOOO and HARRY WENT TO SLEEP IN GRYFFINDOR TOWER. *clings* I think me thinking semi-rationally with this post was really a freak occurrence, btw :)) Clearly :>

You'll probably drive me to writing fanfic to your fic. Remember how I did that once? hehe. Not just you, I did that for Ivy & Zahra. man. It's like, okay, the reason I can ignore the epilogue in fic is because to me, H/D exists parallel to canon in the first place, not really in the same universe as canon Harry & canon!Draco. Because I started out writing obsessed!Draco who thought about Harry & how much he hated him and how much he wanted his cock, etc... I mean. It was always my Draco that wanted Harry, not JKR's, y'know? Real!Harry wants Ginny, and that was NEVER the Harry that was gay for Malfoy, not in a direct sense (to me). Which is why the fics where he's 'just gay' or hates Ginny or can't get it up for her or realizes he was delusional in HBP and only liked her because she represented happy days & sunshine... all of that was always bullshit. So basically H/G is no more or less real to me than ever, 'cause I always operated from the assumption that my Harry's not gonna like Malfoy in any 'normal' universe. And then people started going on and on about how HBP!Harry was all starry-eyed and repressed and I was like, NO, because... no.

I dunno. I know what you mean about just ignoring the bits you don't like (re: epilogue), but I feel it's easier to ignore events (marriage, etc) than to ignore characterization (which hasn't changed with the addition of the epilogue, is the thing). You still need to make Harry grow in a whole new direction, same as ever, a direction I never thought he'd go in canon. It's hard to deal with him and Ginny, which is basically why I'm in favor of killing her (y)! :D

Date: 2007-07-30 02:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The funniest thing is, I don't remember anyone hating Cho. Maybe that was just me, but like, did they? Really? With the vehemence of the Ginny-hate? Shit, I love Cho. I'm writing that Harry/Cho fic, I swear it.

I know, I love Draco's O. Reena, I keep reading Remus/Sirius, I was never into this pairing, what is happening? Have you read that fic I showed you? I really adore it. Also, hahaha, I think it is funny because we often agree about H/D but they're so very rarely sexual to me and they're always sexual to you :))

Haha, did you really write fic to Zahra? Pog said DH was like the fandom Resurrection Stone, everybody was popping back up, and it was kind of true.

I made my end-all rec list yesterday, for Jen, it sort of overwhelmed me. It's weird when five years can be boiled down to fifty fics or so.

Date: 2007-07-30 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
What pairing *is* sexual to you! I'm curious! :D! R/S is less so, but still... Sirius, so yeah. S/L = very much so and I mean, I know he never acted on it.

I loved Cho too! I think it was easy to dismiss her since Harry wasn't really in love with her and dismissed her and her wet kisses himself in OoTP and before that you could just ignore Cho, mostly (I mean, Harry's stomach flopped, I believe?) I really loved the Cedric angst-- Cho's, Harry's, and all the grief and fear and wartime coming. It was like Harry/Luna in my mind, in that they could talk about these things, y'know? They could share. But the one character I could never sexualize or pair believably with anyone is Luna, and of course she has to be the nonsexual outlet for Harry's angst, so as not to be threatening? 'Oh, you're my talking friend'. I so know how that goes, being experienced with that attitude from others, but still, hahah. I wish him & Cho or him & Ginny could talk, man. In my semi-realistic post-OoTP Harry+Ginny & Ginny+Luna & Ginny+Tom fic I was like, 'hey, they could talk!' But no. :/ JKR. :/

Anyway, with H/D, talking is something it'd take some effort for them to do, y'know? I mean, there's a reason no one jumped at my hug challenge & even you didn't actually have them hug :)) It's because lust is the obvious catalyst, and because their competition/'conversations' with each other have always been physical in canon (hexes, Quidditch, Harry beating him up, Harry slashing him, them following/watching each other, again without talking, etc).

Remus/Sirius is still alive, see. Marauder-era! That fic is on my to-read list, btw :)) If you want, I can give you tons of recs, though it might take awhile to remember them all :> Mostly I'd say there are certain authors to definitely read, like [ profile] lupercali, [ profile] librae, [ profile] imochan, [ profile] sheafrotherdon (and all their friends like [ profile] yeats, etc), [ profile] stellabelle, , [ profile] anniesj, plus [ profile] franticbabbles is awesome & here (, [ profile] musesfool's recs (she's good too) & my recs at skyehawke ( Man. The thing is that most of those fics I once read kinda sucked, so I could probably boil it down to 10. *facepalm* ahahfajsflakjsf.

I wrote this ( for Zahra's 'Unlabeled' because she had this way of depressing me and I was like, NUUUUuuuu the way I am :))

Date: 2007-07-30 02:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
DRACO GAVE HARRY A HUG OKAY. IN MY FIC. He actually wrapped his arms around Harry, not as an accident, and it was a hug, even though neither of them admitted it. Harry even started to hug back. So there :P

I mean, okay, I see them as sexual, I guess it's just hard for me to write them as sexual, so sometimes it's hard for me to read them as sexual, too - like in NA, it made sense to me, reading it that way. I guess that is one of the reasons I find Maya's H-D dynamic interesting, in the end, because they have such intensity between each other, and it's not admittedly sexual, even if you want to think it is. It's just, intense. I don't know, all pairings are and aren't! Harry/Ron maybe hahaha. Tom/Harry for serious! I guess the point is that it's hard for me to read any pairing as explicitly sexual, because I'm so used to them in canon form. I don't know, I don't make any sense to myself, because I still read porn and write them as sexual, it's just. Who knows.

I just like fics about cold London flats and tins of beans and bells tolling in the distance ldkjs yeah, it is sad how many fics I have read that are actually awful. I forget, though, too. I read rhoddlet's H/Hr cancerfic from back in 2003 or something the other day and really loved it. I've forgotten so many of the things I've read completely, that is what is also sad.

Date: 2007-07-30 03:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Hehehe it's just that you kept saying if accidental hugs don't count, your fic doesn't, heheh, which I still would've been fine with 'cause it's all about the dynamic, but YEAY :D!

Oh, I meant to rec you [ profile] kabeyk (but messed up the coding) and especially her 'The Dating Disasters of Sirius Black (' (which is just cute as all hell) and then her scar!fic and her fight!fic-- omg she writes them so intensely and with anger and vitriol and omg I love her S/R. And Pru <33 I love the angst and the beans but I tend to read OoTP fic more for that. There's some really intense OoTP fic. Ahh God. I'm a lot easier on S/R than H/D fics, lemme tell ya :> I'm like... when I'm in the mood, I'm like, PUPPIES!! *___*

I know what you mean about not-overtly-sexual-but-intense (I mean, that's where the ICness is, except Maya's Harry luuuurves Draco and stuff, though I haven't read her latest)... ideally, I guess, it's just that once the fic gets to that point there's no going back (for me) because it's either sexing or hexing :> And so I've written a lot of violence, too :) That's why the Sectumsempra was halfway orgasmic for me >__> I've written too much stuff and thought of too much stuff where that was a little too unhinged & darkly sexual, I guess. To me, intensity boils over-- it's hard to contain it and I have to actively work at having my Harry & Draco argue heatedly without them getting all turned on at least on some level. I dunno if that's realism, but perhaps that's just why I keep talking about 'my' H/D and not JKR's Harry & Draco, y'know? That's why I loved the post-OoTP dynamic so much-- suddenly everything was spilling over-- grief, anger, desperation, and Harry's had his romantic/sexual awakening, boom. And somewhere in my mind, the boundaries keep blurring, too-- it's not that it's sexual, it's that I don't quite know where the rage ends and Harry stops hitting him and starts biting him. Harry was really quite unhinged at points in OoTP and just as Sectumsempra showed (vindication!), he could really get out of control.

It's sort of.. it's that falling metaphor. With Ginny, I feel, he could go slowly and be awkward and confused. And even with Ron. But with Harry and Draco, it's like, it's bloody. Draco stomps on his face! Harry beats him to a bloody pulp! And later slashes his chest to ribbons! There's a lot of negative/wild energy that just needs the tiniest push to take another channel, in fifth/sixth year. They're not, y'know, restrained, in my head, and also (I think) in canon. Neither of them is in control for the longest time, neither can really get perspective. My favorite personal-fanon!H/D moment is hands down the unpublished one in my post-OoTP novella where Draco's half-possessed by Tom (hahah horcruxes before HBP! I win!) and they're in the Hospital wing making a blood oath and Harry's biting on Draco's thumb to draw blood, and that act-- the shared blood-- is so powerful that there doesn't have to be anything else, and Draco comes in his pajamas. Y'know. Intense :>

...Though actually I meant to say, you actually make sense but I can't help it either :))

Date: 2007-07-30 03:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
God I love you when you go on and on about your H/D, it is endearing :)) No, I know where you are coming from, I just can't write that intensity so it's all about what they THINK and what they REMEMBER and the IMAGES, the slow moments of revelation, ugh, you know.

Aww, but see, right now I don't want puppies, I want cold winters and cups of tea and really lovely angst, you know how it is. Anyway, I am getting it, so it is good. Also, off topic, you do know that aside from the "Look at me!" the angriest Harry gets in the OotP movie is when Malfoy makes a snide comment at him, and he is all jumping and snarling. I thought of you!

The sad thing about that sort of intensity is that I always feel like it can't be sustained, it's like - it's like in QoH, almost, where Harry needs it but only for so long. Or something. You know? So in a way they do have to be quits. Or not, I'm not really making sense anymore but there have to be the quiet moments too, in between, that pull it all together. In my head anyway :-? I mean, the ways they make each other stronger at the end, instead of just, worn down and snarling at each other? Or something. kdjfdkslkfj I can never talk to you about H/D because I never know what to say :)) When it's Aja I can just sort of nod along :)) I don't know, my H/D is never as angry and intense as yours, or Maya's, or anything, but then, I don't think many people's H/D is.

Date: 2007-07-30 04:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Haha I don't always write that, it's just that one emotive moment stuck in my head on repeat. There are many reasons/flavors of H/D I love, but when it comes to explaining the attraction I always crank up the angst till it's pouring out of my ears. >__> Ideally, I'd write them like Aja or Miss Breed or Aspen, but I always vacillate between snark, fluff & intense grr-arg-hard-on type stuff :> I think my favorite emotive progression in that sense (even though it has many problems) is still mijan's 'Eclipse'-- where he's angry and cunning and Harry's all impatient and eyerolly and yet this is contrasted by how they just naturally fit together and moments where they're just boys together when they let themselves be. To me there's always that tension between Silvia Kundera's Draco and post-OoTP Draco like Cassie Claire wrote him, y'know? I don't know what I'm saying asljfaskjfs I totally didn't mean they're always snarling at each other, I myself can't keep that up either :)) I... it's just where the sexuality comes from, that's all :P

And yeah, I always knew that H&D would have to break up because that sort of relationship could never sustain itself. It's not like they'd be together 10 years later, swapping cheesecake recipies :> I could never resolve it like Aja could. That's why Aja has like, finished fics and 9181098313 fangirls and I have unfinished novellas where they bite each other's thumbs ;>

Date: 2007-07-30 04:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That's why Aja has like, finished fics and 9181098313 fangirls and I have unfinished novellas where they bite each other's thumbs ;>

Hahahaha ilu though, you know! And that is why, NINETEEN YEARS LATER . . .

Harry was reading the Prophet when the owl came. Ginny opened the window and took the small scroll of parchment, then turned back to the sunny kitchen, frowning. 'Harry,' she said. 'Why's Malfoy sent you a recipe for chocolate cheescake?'

'Oh, I sent him a copy of your mum's yesterday,' Harry replied absently. 'Told him it was mine, though.'

'But why are you exchanging cheesecake recipes with Draco Malfoy?' Ginny demanded, her voice getting shriller.

Harry shrugged without looking up. 'He said it's all he craves lately. Didn't you know? Malfoy's pregnant.'

Date: 2007-07-30 05:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
fasklfsjalkjfsakjfsa fs WHY ARE YOU SO GOOD TO ME.

Date: 2007-07-30 05:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The joy of pregnant!Malfoy will never die.

Date: 2007-07-30 05:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Heh Heh. Oh Harry, he just got drunk on that weird 'juice' Hagrid gave him once and it's just that Malfoy was THERE so he couldn't even see the receding hair, and one thing led to another and.... really, Draco hadn't looked at him in the face again since he started showing, but how was Harry supposed to KNOW? :>

Date: 2007-07-30 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I wish everybody would shut up about his receding hairline, you know Harry loves it :>

Date: 2007-07-30 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
ldkfjs Reena also I'm so embarrassed that everybody's coming to your journal all, "Hey, serious essay on Draco in DH, I agree!" and here I am in the comments giving you more pregnant!Malfoy drabbles, like I ever stop. Why won't the thread collapse!

Is post-OotP Cassie Claire Draco the kind from After The Flood? I think that is the only one I bothered to read. Anyway. I mean, Aja's Draco has variations too, like The Reader vs. Trade, etc.

Date: 2007-07-30 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
HAHAHA I KNOW BUT YOU'RE NTO THE ONLY ONE ACTING LIKE A DORK HERE, Y'KNOW. :> :> I always feel awkward when people take me seriously and/or agree with me. I'm like, 'um, AND NOW TO DISAPPOINT YOU...' :>

Yeah, it was AtF as the only one I remember, though actually what I remember was her Harry >__> WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, RIGHT :)) To me, Aja's Draco = her angsty!Draco like from my favorite fics ('Twelfth Night', 'Atrophy', 'Inscription', etc, GOD I FORGOT HOW MUCH I LOVED AJA'S FIC :(( AAHHhhh don't listen to me, clearly I don't know anything about H/D). Actually maybe I'm thinking of Penelope. D: Okay, compare Penelope's and Silvia's/Trin's/Zahra's, mine is somewhere in the middle, never being able to make up his bloody mind whether he wants to be a silly dorkface or be like, 'I'll have you, Potter!' *waggle eyebrows*

I think in some ways I just go to my happy place too easily & this is confusing if you want to know how I actually see Harry&Draco, not least because I've stopped actively thinking about them and they exist as this... flavor in my mind, mostly an OoTP flavor. The other flavor is like, post-GoF and it's totally different and involves lots of embarrassing fanon and love potions and Quidditch but at this point I wonder what that has to do with actual Harry/Draco, oddly. I think in the end they're less a sustainable relationship and more a series of issues and contrasts-- Harry's like this, Draco's like that. Harry has this, Draco has that. Harry's in Gryffindor, Draco's in Slytherin. And there's all these ways they're reflections of each other, all these ways they're parallel and all these possibilities for them to understand and transform, but all of that is meta. That's not... it's like if you took them to a psychiatrist and you start thinking 'so what is your life about', and this is what their lives are about, but mostly they're not dealing with that either in fic or canon, yu'know?

So what I'm left with is the surface, is the feeling of conflict, Slytherin vs Gryffindor without the nice words. I think there's a reason that my favorite image of them, the prototypical image, is dressed in their House Quidditch uniform, on their brooms, and they both want the Snitch, and it's Harry that gets it. And there's something so final and simple yet weirdly resolving about their last real interaction being on the same broom, going for the gliterring shiny 'Snitch', except it's no longer a contest and Draco wants to get off as soon as possible :)

Like, I just saw a post which mentioned how the Sectumsempra-- the most emotionally intense/'intimate' Harry & Draco ever got together-- never got followed up on. Instead, we get a broom ride as the climax to the next book's H+D relationship. And I think that's it, really... this is more central somehow, actually, and now it's changed after all. I dunno, I'm not making sense anymore, ahsfkljaklj

Date: 2007-07-30 04:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And there's all these ways they're reflections of each other, all these ways they're parallel and all these possibilities for them to understand and transform, but all of that is meta. That's not... it's like if you took them to a psychiatrist and you start thinking 'so what is your life about', and this is what their lives are about, but mostly they're not dealing with that either in fic or canon, yu'know?


But see, he wants to get off, but he's clinging to Harry, you know! Actually, I have no fucking idea what that says, except that hordes of fangirls pumped their fists in glee. You know Malfoy later admired Harry's skill on a broom, though.

It's kind of like in my hugfic, though. Actually, that's really odd, my fic has a strangely similar H/D ending. I would talk about it but you haven't read it yet so you'll just have to deduce for yourself!

The Sectumsempra was like, a rending, tearing apart, though, that disunity. Was it you who made the post about unity/connections/joining versus the splitting of Horcruxes/Voldemort/etc? I swear it was, I reference it all the time. Anyhow, I mean, this is a literal bridging of their rivalry, until they're actually on the same broom. It's actually sort of funny, at the last Malfoy does get to be on Harry's level, literally with him as he flies, and now that he does get the experience he just wants to get off. THIS ACTUALLY SAID NOTHING OF REAL VALUE, IGNORE IT PLZ. Nothing makes sense. All I can think about is Sirius and Remus and dying plants and cold flats with cheese toasties. KDJSF I need to go to sleep, I think.

Date: 2007-07-30 05:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Hahahaha fslajkfsalkjfas yeah that. Um. SEE THIS IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT META. It's when you take symbolic connections as actual forces moving characters around.... and I say this as someone who's obsessed with that sort of symbolism. But after years, literally, of being frustrated 'cause no one wrote fic that really satisfied me on the deepest/symbolic level (and I started out trying to write 'One Good Reason' where it was gonna be a thesis on why/how Harry sees/wants Draco)... I mean, I realized that you can encompass it or really approach it very easily because there would have to be certain extremely dramatic events that bring it into focus; it's not a property of Harry&Draco interacting (except subtextually). Like, on the page, they're just snarky boys the way that (I think) Remus & Sirius are just mates. But with Remus and Sirius, to bring the various trust and friendship issues onto the surface, you have the whole war and Voldemort and Snape and Peter and suspicion and this long history of events they'd shared that's always influencing their relationship.

With Harry & Draco, it's more projection and fixation on several formative events than a complex actuality of deep-rooted issues-- like, if they sat down and thought about it, if they went into therapy, they'd see all these interconnections, but in practice they're not tied to enough events to make them vivid, or something. And I keep waiting for people to write 'the crucible', the thing that brings all these parallels into focus, but all people do is white-wash and 'overcome' rather than dwell and excavate the difficulties. The thing that appealed to me with H/D isn't the anger, it's the scars, like this:

the thing I came for:
the wreck and not the story of the wreck
the thing itself and not the myth
the drowned face always staring
toward the sun
the evidence of damage
worn by salt and away into this threadbare beauty
the ribs of the disaster
curving their assertion
among the tentative haunters.

This is the place.
And I am here, the mermaid whose dark hair
streams black, the merman in his armored body.
We circle silently
about the wreck
we dive into the hold.
I am she: I am he

And like this:
Much can be said for social savoir-faire,
But to rejoice when no one else is there
Is even harder than it is to weep;
No one is watching, but you have to leap.

A solitude ten thousand fathoms deep
Sustains the bed on which we lie, my dear:
Although I love you, you will have to leap:
Our dream of safety has to disappear.

Y'know? How do you dig down deep where there is no skin, where there is no 'ordinary life' where meta/dreams/subtext is banked and repressed, where everything dark and hidden and dangerous and sexual is exposed, where your own psyche's resonances and lonely corners face the harsh wind, the blinding daylight? How often does that actually coincide with 'reality', with what happens? And yet, I know it can be exposed; it just generally isn't.

And! I love the rending vs unity thing!! We should talk/think more about that! Man! And bringing the Sectumsempra into it is awesome!! *___* Anyway, I agree that being on the same broom is closure, just not the sort you'd expect after what Harry did at the end of HBP, I guess, in terms of power/symbolism/intensity where things got way beyond 'rivalry' for a moment there. Maybe...? faslkjfsklajsf I DON'T KNOW ANYMORE EITHER D:

Date: 2007-07-30 05:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Although I love you, you will have to leap:
Our dream of safety has to disappear.

Did you quote that before? Was it you who made that post? Or Aja? Agh, everything is getting confused in my head. Anyway, I think basically we want different things from H/D, maybe, and/or from H/D fic, at least on some level. Or, sometimes. More later maybe?

See, see, that rending vs. unity bit, that's my whole point! Er, issue! Whatever, the joining, I mean, what I thought would turn out to be inter-house, inter-national, inter-species unity, the coming together. Like when Lupin or whoever says that when Voldemort rose to power, he brought dissent and mistrust, everyone breaking apart, that's what he does. Anyway. Hermione talks about it in the hugfic, I couldn't help it.

Date: 2007-07-30 05:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
That's Aja's favorite poem, which I've shamelessly adopted so I may very well have referenced it before!! >:) Aja is so my H/D guru, I am but a lowly Padawan, etcetc. The thing is that I have a dozen different H/D types that I'm into & probably more. I just want their issues/parallels/scars/dark spots dealt with in a sort of stubborn way and at the same time when I think about them I don't know how to get at them so all I can say in terms of imagery in practical terms is, 'there's Draco Malfoy on a broom!'

Or maybe that's because I'm tired. :-?
I love how tentative we are, hahah it would definitely be a tied for Who Is The Most Tentative and Uncertain, were there in fact to be a contest :"> Um.

I like Teh Joining too, just less on a social level. Or perhaps it's like I like the rending on a personal psyche level so that there can be deeper joining... or melding... or really just understanding. Because like, deep down we are all the same and... stuff? :P hehe

Date: 2007-07-30 05:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Maybe Aja made the post then, I don't know! Well, anyhow. Haha, Aja is everybody's H/D guru. Or something. Draco Malfoy on a broom kdjfs. Yeah, I don't know anything, I tiptoe a lot! I am sleeping now. I keep meaning to sleep and then I get more comments and get distracted. Now! I swear!

But the thing is, Voldemort splits on a social level, too. Like casting doubt, who could be a spy, like what happened to MWPP, etc, etc. Ugh, so I guess the ultimate symbol of unity is Albus Severus Potter the Green Eyed and Red Haired Wonder Child. Does he even have red hair? I don't know. Bed.

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Date: 2007-07-30 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
p.s. the only Trin Draco I remember is literal Lord of the Flies Draco, sooooo . . .

Date: 2007-07-30 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]

Date: 2007-07-30 04:56 am (UTC)
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Date: 2007-07-30 04:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
*pumps fist like Draco fangirls*

There was also the one where he was wandering Hogwarts and they were kissing while the lake flooded everything, you know. Wasn't there one where he was a valley girl? Or maybe that was just a metaphor.

Date: 2007-07-30 05:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
...there was one with a Valley girl. um. and there was that one with pointy elbows and chihuahuas, i know there was. And spiders. It. Never left my mind.

Also I cannot find myself referencing Hallows much at all, wtf *__*

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